Motor timing…. When do u time a brushless motor

[sigelitest]

How do u know when to time a motor and how do u know how much.

Fighter cat recommends timing some of his outrunners to 30 deg

i also have some scorpion motors do they require timing?
is it a trial and error thing

[Boaterguy]

timing is based on number of poles and mildly affected by RPM
an outrunner with 8 poles uses 15+ degrees of timing
an inrunner with 4 poles uses something around 8, depending on the motor and if it is high or low RPM setups
what specific motors are they?

[sigelitest]

i guess i have been doing it wrong i have not set any timing on my ESCs
nothing has been getting hot. on the Neu motor,, it is in a razor running 10s and a x457 prop seems slow for its setup. is there a formula
for the timing setup?



HK-4035-800kv Scorpion

LPRD 2200 kv 4082

LPRD 1340kv 5692

Neu 1020kv 2215

[Boaterguy]

not really a straight forward way of doing it every time, I think the 4082 is usually run at about 8 or 9 degrees but i've never run one or had one.
I have no idea about the others but someone who has used them is likely to chime in.

[sigelitest]

how do u know if it is wrong. i can't find anything on the scorpion website.

[Boaterguy]

a properly timed motor will produce less heat and a little bit more speed with the headroom to prop up a little more (because of less heat). If you have data logging equipment try 6-8 on the inrunners and about 12 on the outrunner (the scorpion you mentioned is an outrunner?). Play around with it, if you move it up and your temps go up/ amps go up, you're going the wrong way, if you move it down and same thing, move it higher.

[Fluid]

There is a lot of misinformation floating around about motor advance. It is used to allow enough time for the electrical current to create a magnetic field before the approaching magnet gets close. Optimum timing energizes the coil just in time to pull the next magnet around it. Too soon or too late and efficiency is lost. Correct timing depends on the number of poles, how the windings are arranged, and on amp draw - not rpm. The higher the amp draw, the more advance is required. For the motors listed, a good starting range is:

HK-4035-800kv Scorpion: 15 degrees is recommended by the US distributor. Too much timing avance will cause the ESC to lose rotor position - ask me how I know. This is a relatively low amp motor with best efficiency below 125 amps.

LPRD 2200 kv 4082: 10 to 15 degrees

LPRD 1340kv 5692: 0 to 4 degrees. This D wind motor works best at very low timing advance.

Neu 1020kv 2215: 10 to 15 degrees. A Wye wind motor which has a wide range of advance. The higher the amps, the more timing.

How much does timing effect performance? I did a test (again) at the last SAW event in LA. Using a Castle 1515/1Y motor, I tried both 15* and 20* of advance, no other changes. The speeds recorded were, respectively, 82 and 87 mph. Amp draws were above 250. The additional timing advance did a better job of pulling the next magnet around, hense more power and speed. At lower amp draws the effect would be less, perhaps much less. I didn't try 25*, now thinking about it I wish I had....


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[Gimp]

LPRD 2200 kv 4082: 10 to 15 degrees

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Fluid, is this were a 4074 2200kV Leo on 4s needs to be as well?

Thank you for the information, I didn't know it had to do with what you said. Makes perfect sense now.

[Fluid]

Fluid, is this were a 4074 2200kV Leo on 4s needs to be as well?
That is a 'Y' (Wye) wind motor so in the 10-15 degree range is probably good. Depending on the amp draw you may need to adjust it, but in that range should be pretty close for most users.


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[sigelitest]

Thanks guys great info. I will get a data loger as my next buy. Looks like the info from it will be very useful.

[Gimp]

That is a 'Y' (Wye) wind motor so in the 10-15 degree range is probably good. Depending on the amp draw you may need to adjust it, but in that range should be pretty close for most users.


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Thank you!

[sigelitest]

hey fluid
Help with one more?
scorpion hk 4020 1390kv

15 DEG?
i plan on using 2 in a king of shaves cat

Thanks for the help you sure know your stuff

[jimi911]

Be careful with the 2215. The timing is dependent on the amp draw. That motor is very efficient bone stock and you can generate heat in the motor playing with the timing without need. I have the 2215 1.5Y in my Lazer45. I run it at 5 degrees of advance ... my amp draw is not enough in a sport setup to require more advance than that. I have no idea what you setup is, but I would recommend playing with the timing the same way you play with a prop ... slight adjustments to find your happy place.

[HydroMike]

Alot of info but I'm getting it sssslllooowwwlllyyy :Sinking:
There is a lot of misinformation floating around about motor advance. It is used to allow enough time for the electrical current to create a magnetic field before the approaching magnet gets close. Optimum timing energizes the coil just in time to pull the next magnet around it. Too soon or too late and efficiency is lost. Correct timing depends on the number of poles, how the windings are arranged, and on amp draw - not rpm. The higher the amp draw, the more advance is required. For the motors listed, a good starting range is:

HK-4035-800kv Scorpion: 15 degrees is recommended by the US distributor. Too much timing avance will cause the ESC to lose rotor position - ask me how I know. This is a relatively low amp motor with best efficiency below 125 amps.

LPRD 2200 kv 4082: 10 to 15 degrees

LPRD 1340kv 5692: 0 to 4 degrees. This D wind motor works best at very low timing advance.

Neu 1020kv 2215: 10 to 15 degrees. A Wye wind motor which has a wide range of advance. The higher the amps, the more timing.

How much does timing effect performance? I did a test (again) at the last SAW event in LA. Using a Castle 1515/1Y motor, I tried both 15* and 20* of advance, no other changes. The speeds recorded were, respectively, 82 and 87 mph. Amp draws were above 250. The additional timing advance did a better job of pulling the next magnet around, hense more power and speed. At lower amp draws the effect would be less, perhaps much less. I didn't try 25*, now thinking about it I wish I had....


.

[sigelitest]

the razor is a 45" hull mono with a x457 prop and it runs on 10s i am using a stinger on it

[Jeepers]

IMO you need to go up in prop, a 457 seems rather small for a 45" mono. I would try these props x460 x462 x465 x467

I run a x457 on a 36" hydro with a Neu 1527 (the one in my avatar) that 2215 should be able to pull way more prop.... :cool2:

[tagasagwan]

Hi guys,

how about those older Feigao 540xl's? I think they are 2 poles, do they require low timing?

[sigelitest]

IMO you need to go up in prop, a 457 seems rather small for a 45" mono. I would try these props x460 x462 x465 x467

I run a x457 on a 36" hydro with a Neu 1527 (the one in my avatar) that 2215 should be able to pull way more prop.... :cool2:

i just picked up a x460 to try. it is also my first try at balancing my own props, wish me luck :)

[Fluid]

scorpion hk 4020 1390kv - 15 DEG?That's were I'd start. All the Scoprions I've run liked 15 degrees - but I'm pulling around 90-110 amps. Higher amp draw might require more advance, but too much causes the motor to studder which is not good. SO far I've been happy with 15*.


how about those older Feigao 540xl's? I think they are 2 poles, do they require low timing? They are still electric motors and the exact timing will depend on the amp draw and motor specs. Anywhere from 10 to 20 degrees depending on use and motor.



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[properchopper]

Hi guys,

how about those older Feigao 540xl's? I think they are 2 poles, do they require low timing?

I'd like to know too.

[Fluid]

Tony, see post #19.



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[properchopper]

Tony, see post #19.



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Got it; thanks.