Rio EP brushless conversion HELP??????? plz

[aminoacid]

Ok. I have a stock Rio EP and want to convert brushless.
I have an ESC from the UL1 which is 60 amp water cooled.

my question is what size battery and motor can i use? the UL1 had 2x 2s 3200 mah setup in series 14+ volts.
Im a beginner modder and new to brushless. I have blackjack55 and shockwave 55 gas boats and nitro tmaxx and revo.

i'm thinking 2200kv from hobbyking with maybe 4s 5000mah single battery? not sure really what i should use considering the hull size and weight it can handle. I'll try to take out the left rudder and stick with one only if thats a good idea?

suggestions appreciated.

[Make-a-Wake]

If thats the 25 inch version you wont need much to speed it up quite a bit. I'd go with the two 2s batts you have on each side for easier CG adjusment, at 3200 mah they arent real heavy either.

This motor should be plenty with that boat and you can keep the prop small to lessen the torque roll effect:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6529__Turnigy_B36_50_06_2300kv_Inrunner.html

or you can go with the 1500kv version and a bit bigger prop:

[lenny]

I have a Rio mod, And it runs on 2s and 3s, 3S gps at 32.5mph with a X440/3 s & b prop.
Runs pretty good, Look hears the video,http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?29619-FighterCat-Daytona-and-Rio-Brushless

[JoeOvercoat]

I don't have advice, but I can offer an example: see photos of my work in progress @ http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/ae336/JoeOvercoat/RC%20Boats/Rio%20EP%20Brushless%20Deep%20Vee%20from%20Aquacra ft/ProBoat%20A3630%201500%20Motor%20Installation%20in %20Rio%20EP/

The RCS Sickcess is to be vastly overpowered (with two water pickups: one stock & one thru-hull), and will retain both rudders for slow speed maneuverability. She will use the stock prop (or smaller!) to minimize torque roll.

Intent is to build an able rescue boat capable of towing many meters of floating rope & noodle to lasso & tow wayward racers to shore. Also have notions of running in the surf line of the Chesapeake Bay.

Retaining the water-tight box drove me from a 3S to 6S configuration, given my stockpile of 3S batts, the weight & balance tradeoffs, and my speculative concern about moving the center of gravity too far forward (starting with removal of the stock ESC from the box aft, and a ProBoat ESC that does not fit in its place). Throttle discipline will be required. I have high hopes the heavyweight solution will run well on the water...if it does porpoise it should get interesting, fast.

The ProBoat A3630-1500 Motor, the 36mm diameter 1500kv brushless motor, is the stock replacement Motor for the BlackJack 26 Brushless Catamaran from http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-prb3310.

[aminoacid]

how would i couple for example a 5mm shafted motor to the stock drive cable?

[aminoacid]

i am having trouble figuring out what size motor is appropriate. the link you gave me in backordered. ... suggestions?
If thats the 25 inch version you wont need much to speed it up quite a bit. I'd go with the two 2s batts you have on each side for easier CG adjusment, at 3200 mah they arent real heavy either.

This motor should be plenty with that boat and you can keep the prop small to lessen the torque roll effect:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6529__Turnigy_B36_50_06_2300kv_Inrunner.html

or you can go with the 1500kv version and a bit bigger prop:

[Make-a-Wake]

A 2858 to a 3660 will work........

This 380 9xl on 3s - http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=fei-380-xL&cat=116

This 12s on 3s - http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=fei-540S&cat=116

This for monster power on 4s, 13L version - http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=fei-540L&cat=116

[JoeOvercoat]

I bought a 5mm x 1/8 Collet (Item # 529B30) from KintecRacing, for $8 plus tax/shipping from the page @ http://www.kintecracing.com/Collets_Couplers.html.

There is some question as to whether one of the set screws grabs the flexible shaft in addition to the collet, or if it supposed to be collet-only. I think it is the former, but have not installed the coupler, nor asked Kintec Racing how to properly install the colletted coupler.

[lenny]

The coupler end with the set screw is for motor shaft only, Flex is held by coupler nut only.

[JoeOvercoat]

Just a thought: decide how you are going to mount the motor before you order anything. It is possible...likely, even... that you willl put several different motors/ESCs in your Rio over its lifetime...and any number of props...but probably only one motor mount.

For the right-sized motors recommended in this thread, you'll probably want to mount a motor mount in the boat.

I also suggest that you decide whether you are going to retain the water-tight box before you get far: the box limits your options, but is a robust solution to servo & receiver protection. I kept the box and put in a Traxxas watertight servo for good measure, and a bit better performance.

And lastly to go firstly, decide if you want to retain the dual rudders: a lot of brushless Rios run on one rudder just fine. If it is all about the speed, I'd think about one rudder. I kept the stock rudders for rescue/surf boat reasons. If you go with one rudder you can integrate the water pick-up in the rudder assy and remove the stock pickup [which is a tad close to the prop stream, seems to me]. I added an Octura thru-hull pickup as a consequnce of retaining the stock rudders...and not being impressed with the stock pickup's performance.

Every brushless Rio I have seen has taken a slightly/drastically different approach to mounting a motor mount, whereas my boat retains the original motor mount to minimize the chance that the motor action will crack the hull: I left the stock mount in for stress distribution, and modified the stock mount to fit the motor with water jacket. The motor sits very nicely in the tape I used to seal the mount, such that the strap will not have to carry all the load.

Retaining the stock motor mount led me to the ProBoat motor/water jacket combo as the best natural fit to the stock mount, and in turn to the corresponding ProBoat ESC. I would not have ordered the ProBoat ESC if I realized how heavy it was...but perhaps it will reward me with reliability.

And the size of that ProBoat ESC drove me to a layout that...well...where I had no choice but to go 6S for weight & balance & logistics. That's my story and I am sticking to it.

Craft wood spacers...between the strap and the mount...are in the works, with intent to shape them to fit the motor: you can get a glimpse of them in the photos @ http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/ae336/JoeOvercoat/RC%20Boats/Rio%20EP%20Brushless%20Deep%20Vee%20from%20Aquacra ft/ProBoat%20A3630%201500%20Motor%20Installation%20in %20Rio%20EP/6S%20and%203S%20Draft%20Layouts%20with%20ProBoat%2 0ESC/

Rio stock mount mod for ProBoat motor photos start @ http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae336/JoeOvercoat/RC%20Boats/Rio%20EP%20Brushless%20Deep%20Vee%20from%20Aquacra ft/ProBoat%20A3630%201500%20Motor%20Installation%20in %20Rio%20EP/Fitting%20Proboat%20A3630%20Motor%20to%20Aquacraft %20Rio%20EP/DSCN3212.jpg

Rio strap mod for ProBoat cooling jacket photos @ http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/ae336/JoeOvercoat/RC%20Boats/Rio%20EP%20Brushless%20Deep%20Vee%20from%20Aquacra ft/ProBoat%20A3630%201500%20Motor%20Installation%20in %20Rio%20EP/Rio%20EP%20Motor%20Strap%20Mod%20for%20ProBoat%20A 3630-1500/

Octura thru-hull water pickup photos @ http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/ae336/JoeOvercoat/RC%20Boats/Rio%20EP%20Brushless%20Deep%20Vee%20from%20Aquacra ft/ProBoat%20A3630%201500%20Motor%20Installation%20in %20Rio%20EP/Octura%20Streamlined%20Water%20Pickup%20Install%20 In%20Rio%20EP/

[JoeOvercoat]

Thanks much Lenny!

To be clear, the coupler I bought has two set screws side-by-side, and I take it that both of those set screws are intended for the motor shaft, even though only one of them can fit into the flat on the motor shaft. The other set screw would go 'upshaft' of the flat, closer to the motor, I would expect.

64216

Using only the only collet to grab the flexible shaft means the shaft is held at one point along its length, which would minimize whipping by allowing the shaft to flex instead of fighting it, perhaps.

[aminoacid]

I see the couplers.
Which motor do you think is best. I'm not looking for a mega speed boat, just a nice, fast, reliable boat, nothing thats gonna torque roll like crazy, overheat..etc.
MOTOR 1 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17734__XK3665_2150KV_Brushless_Inrunner.html)
MOTOR 2 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6527__Turnigy_B36_56_04_2600kv_Inrunner.html)

[Make-a-Wake]

You dont need a 1000+ watt motor in a 25" plastic boat. The 3656 2600kv is a good choice.................its all of the power you will need..........it'll fly.

[JoeOvercoat]

Given your ESC is 60AMP (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-aqum7011), if you plan to run 3S then that XK3665-2150KV Brushless Inrunner might be a good fit at about 54Amps for 11.1v.

You might want to run 25C+ lipos, as a minimum, for similar reasons, such that the ESC cannot outdraw the battery(ies).

A good ESC/motor/prop balance will give you even temps across the ESC & motor, with some margin on the ESC being the 'conservative' design.

[Make-a-Wake]

Given your ESC is 60AMP, if you plan to run 3S then that XK3665-2150KV Brushless Inrunner might be a good fit at about 54Amps for 11.1v.

You might want to run 25C+ lipos, as a minimum, for similar reasons, such that the ESC cannot outdraw the battery(ies).

A good ESC/motor/prop balance will give you even temps across the ESC & motor, with some margin on the ESC being the 'conservative' design.

There's no way i would ever recommend you run that motor with a 60a ESC.......................i'll step aside and let you and Joe figure it out..........................

[lenny]

:doh::bash::frusty::flashfire:
Now that is a very very smart man.:tiphat:
I think I would run run and hide !:hornets_nest:

[JoeOvercoat]

I thought Make-A-Wake recommended that motor, but now I see Make-A-Wake was not refering to either of the linked motors, but a third one. I would go with a motor that draws less wattage, myself. I'm not impressed with the Aquacraft ESC's cooling arrangement, so I would go easy on that ESC. But web sites are not clear to me...as to what voltage they are running their numbers at. If you are trying to balance the ESC & motor, you kind of need to know. I'm sure one of the more experienced members here could help with more specifics.

For reference the stock motor for the Aquacraft ESC in the UL-1 can be seen @ http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-aqug7001&cat=115 and @ http://www.activepowersports.com/aquacraft-boats-brushless-6pole-marine-motor-36562030-ul1-aqug7001/

[aminoacid]

ok. i put in KD36-60 motor, 60amp esc and 2x2s 5000mah (on on each side). stock everything else including prop.
HORRIBLE torque roll, litterly barreling out of the water and leaning to one side. I tried trim tabs nothing helped. seems boat is too heavy in the water too. Any ideas?
check out the video.
VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1lQZw4MKA8)

the boat leans to the right really bad with just barely increasing the throttle. it'll move ok at very low speed and verrryyy slowing increasing the speed, but at a certain speed no matter how i try it will prop walk or lean.

If i punch it it will roll out of the water full 270 upside down.

I will post pics also. I think the prop is too far in towards the transom i'll have to pull it out a bit and also what size prop should i try ? im running stock now.
I have a sincle 4s lipo that I think i want to try and put on left side of hull.

motor is 2200 kv. I have a 2600kv but haven't tried that yet, my guess it''ll do cart wheel and backflips with that motor.

[Make-a-Wake]

Which motor is it............what kv??? Running 4s??

If my memory is correct i think the stock prop is a 42mm diameter. Wish i knew the kv, but i think you need to go with a smaller diameter prop..............if you have the funds get an x435 and an x438 and try those. Start with the 435.

The boat really doesnt look that bad in the vid...............go easy on yourself!! And remember you went with a very powerful motor!

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-x435

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-x438

[aminoacid]

sorry, i just updated the kv, 2200Kv to be exact on 4s. the esc i have is from a UL1 superior 60amp and i believe i can only run 4s. 2s won''t work

which motor should I have tried?
this current setup really isn't usable at all, the video does look much better than reality because I was giving maybe 15% throttle. then this thing leans to the right so game over, even at low speeds. I can get it to accelerate extremely slowly but at a certain speed it'll lean then i can't go any faster.

[aminoacid]

.......

[Make-a-Wake]

I wasnt recommending 2s...................but here's the thing, the diameter of the prop is the main culprit in the torque roll. The motor you went with was also larger than i ever recommended but it can be usable. The smaller props will help alot.........heck, maybe even try an x 432........... A smaller prop will lessen the roll and also allow you to air the boat out with full throttle............ESC's dont like partial throttle and will burn up that way. If the props dont work, grab yourself a cheapy esc that you can run 3s with and try it, HKing selld some for like 25 bucks. Dont give up, it looks good.

Lastly, if you find its just too much motor, maybe you have an application for that motor or can use it down the road.............or sell it for about 75% of what you paid for it.

Here are other options:

4s - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9448__Turnigy_540S_V_Spec_Inrunner_w_Impeller_13 50kv.html

3s - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6529__Turnigy_B36_50_06_2300kv_Inrunner.html

[aminoacid]

more video
V I D E O (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey60rSeOpcQ)

VIDEOOOOO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCYx6m9HH5E&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

[Make-a-Wake]

It may help if you dont "gun it"..............get it slowly up to speed.

[aminoacid]

it wont get up to speed either way. I was only pulling throttle more so you guys can see what its doing. If i slowly get it up to speed it'll lean to one side and prop walk,,,... retarded.

I couldn't get it to a plane as you can see all the videos the hull contacts too much water even towards the front.

[Make-a-Wake]

Your cg should be around 30% from transom.............can you move your batts back???

[aminoacid]

I can move them back about 3 inches excellent point I will try that

[Make-a-Wake]

I can move them back about 3 inches excellent point I will try that

The cg should then be about 6-7 inches from the transom...........you can hold the boat on your fingertips on the bottom and balance it...............or use a broomstick etc.........

Maybe the cg adjustment and smaller prop will settle that beast down!!

Just out of curiosity lemme know where the cg was...........

[lenny]

When you move your lipos,
Move left one 1" to the back more the right one.
That may help with torque roll some,
And mark where they are each time when you move them.
And get some pictures up.

[lenny]

Also, Now you have a lot more power,
So you will need longer turn fins to.
I made my turn fins 1/2"longer and trim tabs 1/4 longer then stock the ones.

[aminoacid]

Some pics. Center of gravity is about 7.5 inches from transom. 25 inches from back to front. pushing batteries back as far as I can get them gives me a 7.75 cg , close.
I like the turn fin ideas, those would be fine tuning I assume. Notice proximity of rudders to prop, literally will hit the prop if the rudder turns far enough. I had the prop pushed inwards towards the transom when videos were taken. Could the prop wash be hitting the rudders too much contributing to the roll? I will pull it out maybe 1/8 inch or a hair more? What u think?


I have a spartan stock, it screams an a bit unstable wobbly at full speed. This rio is more exciting to me and more fun because we try things out and build, creativity is wonderful.

[aminoacid]

6604766048660496605066051

[Make-a-Wake]

Some pics. Center of gravity is about 7.5 inches from transom. 25 inches from back to front. pushing batteries back as far as I can get them gives me a 7.75 cg , close.
I like the turn fin ideas, those would be fine tuning I assume. Notice proximity of rudders to prop, literally will hit the prop if the rudder turns far enough. I had the prop pushed inwards towards the transom when videos were taken. Could the prop wash be hitting the rudders too much contributing to the roll? I will pull it out maybe 1/8 inch or a hair more? What u think?


I have a spartan stock, it screams an a bit unstable wobbly at full speed. This rio is more exciting to me and more fun because we try things out and build, creativity is wonderful.

So pushing the batts all the way back puts the cg at 7.75" from the transom? If so you are at 31%...............where was it before?

Im with you on the creativity..............i have just as much fun with my brushless Villains that i built from the ground up.

[aminoacid]

I didnt check what the cg was before i moved batteries back, but i moved them back at least 2 inches.

wondering if i can shave down the prop I have to shrink it a little and give it a whirl, water here is freezing and i doubt i have a week for props to arrive in the mail.
If I shave the entire blade edge equally, will that work for a temp fix?

[Make-a-Wake]

I didnt check what the cg was before i moved batteries back, but i moved them back at least 2 inches.

wondering if i can shave down the prop I have to shrink it a little and give it a whirl, water here is freezing and i doubt i have a week for props to arrive in the mail.
If I shave the entire blade edge equally, will that work for a temp fix?

Yeah, just for a temp job................i've done that before, wouldnt recommend a whole summer of running that way, but on a cheapy plastic prop i'd do it............try to get it as close as you can to equal. Then with the new cg and smaller prop it should run better.

[aminoacid]

I actually found a 32mm prop from traxxas blast that I modified a bit the shaft hole and got it to work for now.ill give it a run tomorrow. Quick question about lipos I have 5000mah and a complete charge is showing about 2100 mah on the charger which is onyx 235. I have the charger set to 5000 mah capacity. Both batteries are showing up like this. Showing about 4.2 volts each cell. Charger has built in balancer. Ideas? Batterie are bran new turnigy 2s.

[Make-a-Wake]

4.2v per cell is fully charged, brand new turnigy's come in storage mode at 3.85-3.90v per cell so they wouldnt take a full charge.

Looking forward to hearing/seeing how it runs now...................one more thing, you may need to move the batts up slightly if it porpoises bad on the first short run.................just play with em.

[lenny]

You could remove the left rudder to, And it may help some with the roll and drag.
Your prop dog should be out from stuffing tube no more than 1/8 " and should not hit the rudder with the stock 42mm prop.
If it does, Adjust your steering trim on your tx so the rudder will not hit the prop.
Where are the lipos setting at in the hull ?
I think you could rotate the esc for better cg to,
May be with a bridge across the cells with velcro strapping to hold in place for easy in and out,
With the cells to.

Need some picture with lipos in the hull.

[JoeOvercoat]

Lenny ~ how might offsetting the left battery aft/right battery forward mitgate torque roll?
Is the idea to put the counterweight closer to the plane of the prop, to reduce lever arm length from counterweight to torque/walking force?

[JoeOvercoat]

Possibly the batteries are fully charged, given the 4.2V voltage each cell (balanced, to boot), and it was just that they only needed 2100mah of juice to get to their 'full' 5000 mah capacity (more or less: I've read that new lipos need some cycles to get up to snuff, then I expect they drop off as they age). You might be able to get some advice from Turnigy directly via sales@hextronik.com.

[aminoacid]

UPDATE

32mm prop
batteries moved back as much as possible
pulled the prop/shaft out little less than 1/4 inch
a little snow falling towards the end of video. time is running out!!!

Results: I can now get somewhat of a plane on the boat. 32mm is too small/slow with too much cavitation. never had porpoising either way.
Still leaving to the right, but much less, so turning right will make it 360. often i couldn't get it to go straight, it'll go left to right, im thinking prop wash.
V I D E O with improvements (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kyu-laC1n4).
I might try using 1 battery placed on left side, going to 35mm prop and see what happens. have to wait for the prop to come in. Good plan? should I keep the 32mm prop and use another brushless i have rated at 2600kv?
I seen a youtube vid of this, he said he's using 2600kv motor, 3s lipo, 38x55 metal prop..... but WHERE should the battery be placed?

[aminoacid]

that might be correct, not sure if thats what the charger means that it only gave it that much mah. on 2x2s 5000mah ...i only got about 12 minutes of run time in this last video. ... doesn't seem right does it?

another note, i took out the spartan too and one battery swelled up like a damn sausage. turnigy said take a pic, we need to see volts of each cell and send the email. wtf?

[Make-a-Wake]

OK.................gettin somewhere now!! Thats really not much cavatation at all............a bad case is when it just sits still and stirs the water, it only takes a couple seconds for you to get on plane. I bet the x435 will be the sweet spot for propping. You may have your steering rate up too high, either that or the rudder throw is set up to far..........thats mainly why its spinning out, basically turning the rudders too far at speed, plus FE boats hate to turn left.

The x435 should get you the bite and speed you want without the bad torque roll the 42mm was giving you.

You hit full throttle in the vid a couple times?

[aminoacid]

Also, Now you have a lot more power,
So you will need longer turn fins to.
I made my turn fins 1/2"longer and trim tabs 1/4 longer then stock the ones.

so the width of the trim tabs is ok, just need to extend them away from transom a bit?

[aminoacid]

You hit full throttle in the vid a couple times?

actually most of that video was full throttle except turns and when it's starting to act crazy on me

[lenny]

so the width of the trim tabs is ok, just need to extend them away from transom a bit?

Yes.
Or you could make two sets, One sets wider to try to.
And take left rudder off, You do not need it.
It just adds drag and more prop wash interference to.

[aminoacid]

Yes.
Or you could make two sets, One sets wider to try to.
And take left rudder off, You do not need it.
It just adds drag and more prop wash interference to.

I got a 1.34" prop from proboat which is 34mm that fit. seems ok for now but boat is still very difficult to control i can't hit top speed even with this 34mm prop. boat still leans to the right. This is with 1 battery sitting where the stock battery sat which is perpendicular to the hull length butt against the radio box. ESC sitting on the battery also. got center of gravity at 7 inches now. left rudder removed. i still feel the other rudder is contributing to handling quite a bit. If i'm steady at a speed while its leaning a bit to the right of course, it'lll sometimes start going left which to me says prop wash and rudder interference ?

I have yet to extend the trim tabs. any budget ideas? home depot and get a 90 degree corner like peice and cut to length should work? along with extending the turn fins.
I really want to get this boat stable so i can use it. i have a supervee 27 stock hardware and no electronics at all but haven't touched it. I know that will be easier to work with but I have faith in the RIO EP cuz i've seen videos.

[lenny]

I would like to see three pictures of the back of boat,
Looking at the back and down the sides of the boat,
A dead center of back of boat and rudder straight.

Just trying to see if anything look off.

[aminoacid]

some pics
6636866369663706637166372

[aminoacid]

6637366374663756637666377

[Make-a-Wake]

Wow.........that prop looks huge on there..........is that the stock 42mm prop?

If it ends up where you give up on that big motor, get something more tame, like an 1800kv 3650 or similar.

[aminoacid]

prop is a proboat 1.34" ....so 34mm prop.
my setup is 36-60 2200kv motor, 4s lipo 20c (single battery)

Heres the latest video with that setup. still not stable beyond 60% throttle i would estimate.
VIDEO # ...lost count!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDJ0CRo7gqQ)


'

[Make-a-Wake]

You ever try limiting your servo throw or turning down the Steering rate?

[aminoacid]

i tried lowering the rate, and lowering too much i can't really turn in the pond, i hit shore twice when i ran it today.

[lenny]

I am not sure from those pictures,
But check that your turn fins are straight like the right side picture of mine.6637866379663806638166382
Ps Have you checked your temps yet ?
Looks like your water tube from the transit is tight,
How is the water flow ?

[Make-a-Wake]

One thing that hasnt been mentioned is trim tab adjustment. I normally end up with my right tab a bit further down to counteract torque roll, yours look to be even...........bend the right(from rear view) tab down a couple mm's more than the left..........or bring the left one up a bit.

[aminoacid]

water flow is ok i guess, i see water coming out of the side tube. Haven't checked temps with a guage, but everything seems cool when i bring to shore wrapping up my operation for the day. my turn fins are straight.

[aminoacid]

One thing that hasnt been mentioned is trim tab adjustment. I normally end up with my right tab a bit further down to counteract torque roll, yours look to be even...........bend the right(from rear view) tab down a couple mm's more than the left..........or bring the left one up a bit.

i tried that actually. didn't do much. those stock tabs look pathetic honestly. new ones are definately on my agenda (home made of course)
the only other thing is an aftermarket rudder setup but not sure if that will help with torque roll.
If a smaller motor will solve most of the major problems, i guess i can try that but need hobbyking prices and of course hobbyking is always backordered, usually anything I look for on that website is out of stock and not sure who else has similar prices i can look.
the motors i got from them were about $20 each i belieive..maybe 25.

[Make-a-Wake]

I have bought many of these in my RC career.............cars and Boats.........great motors for the $$. This is what i would use if I were wanting to tone it down a bit, still powerful but a bit smaller and less kv:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6526__Turnigy_B36_56_06_1800kv_Inrunner.html

and if you want it to be a mid-speed boat(which will handle better) this will work on 4s and still give you over 2 1/2 times the power of the stock motor.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__4485__KDA_28_57_15Turn_L_Brushless_Inrunner.html

[aminoacid]

the 36-56 is of course backordered. for the 28mm can motor, i'd have to redo the motor mount...not sure how i'd go about doing that without turning this into an overhaul.

[lenny]

This is the motor that I have on 3s, gps at 32mph.
I have not tried 4s yet with it.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=6527

[aminoacid]

This is the motor that I have on 3s, gps at 32mph.
I have not tried 4s yet with it.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=6527

well, i looked at the other brushless i have and its the exact motor you have on yours. I might have to pick up a 3s compatible ESC cuz mine is 4s.

can you tell me what prop your using?
Its 27 degree's F out here, ponds are freezing up i'll have to find a flowing river to test this thing when i get to making some trim tabs and turn fins. I will be buying a rudder for $15'sh, you recommend like 75mm or 90mm? how far back from transom?

[lenny]

I am using a x440/3 prop and a 120a esc with added caps, It also ran good with a s215 prop.
Off the transom to the back of rudder is 4",
And from the center of flex shaft to the rudder bracket its 1 9/16,
Rudder size is top were water nipple gos in,To bottom 3 3/4".

Merry Xmas,
TTYL.

[JoeOvercoat]

CAUTION: lipos suffer non-benign failure modes that can lead to high heat (from run-away current)...hot enough to set the battery and/or items in its vicinity afire....just in case you have not already heard. I've had lipos swell up spontaneously, from fool-hardy attempts to trickle-charge a pack back to life, and they have not gotten fire-hot that I ever noticed. But, lipos can catch fire, and many a hobbyist's house has burned down as a result (google for it).
one battery swelled up like a damn sausage.

[JoeOvercoat]

on 2x2s 5000mah ...i only got about 12 minutes of run time

most of that video was full throttle

BOAT CONSUMPTION = 60 amps* for 12 mins = 60*12/60 (amps*mins/(mins/hr)) = 12 amp hrs

* Spartan ESC may well run over 60 Amps.

BATTERY PRODUCTION** = 1x5000mah = 1x5000/1000 (milliamps/(milliamps/amp)hrs = 5 amp hrs

Inefficiences/burst current, not included above, drive consumption up and production down...so I am surprised those lipos ran that long, even accounting for over-discharge.

** Corrected for Make-A-Wake's observation that you are running 4S.

[Make-a-Wake]

If im following correctly he is using 2 x 2s 5000 mah batts for 4s 5000mah total. If so and he got 12 minutes, thats why his cells swelled up.................12 minutes is a freakin eternity running an FE boat, the 47" mono in my signature gets 4 minutes on 10,000 mah to give you an idea of how short runs can be........ A low voltage cutoff is needed with Lipos to stop an over-discharge situation which sounds like occurred with amino............

[lenny]

that might be correct, not sure if thats what the charger means that it only gave it that much mah. on 2x2s 5000mah ...i only got about 12 minutes of run time in this last video. ... doesn't seem right does it?

another note, i took out the spartan too and one battery swelled up like a damn sausage. turnigy said take a pic, we need to see volts of each cell and send the email. wtf?

Heads up,

You need to cut back on your run times some or :flame42:

[aminoacid]

very informative guys. I'm new to LiPo's honestly. a lipo safety switch i should definately get, especially for that expensive spartan.
IF i recall correctly the spartan has built in voltage cut off?? i'm pretty sure i read in the manual that at certain voltage the esc will only allow 25% or maybe more just enough to get back to shore. I might be wrong on this???


In this RIO EP Im considering going down to a 380/ 28mm size motor instead of the 540 size/36mm but that opens the motor mount issues. The main reason why i wanted to stick with 36-5+ size motors is direct fit.

If i get a 70 birdie ESC from hobby wing what would be a good motor and prop, feels like starting from ground zero!!!
I will be replicating Lenny's set up since i already have that exact motor, i'll place an order for that 70amp ESC and run 3s with x438 or x440 like lenny's. A 75mm rudder with water pickup is on its way now, meanwhile i'll be working on those trim tabs and turn fins.

Not sure what to do at this point. the 3656 2600kv i might throw in my SV27 or even this this 3660 2200kv.

[Make-a-Wake]

A 28mm diameter motor can be installed by reaming/grinding the mounting holes each inward to fit the smaller mounting radius. You can stay with a 3650 if you go with something like this motor which is 1500kv, can still be run on 4s and be a bit tamer, and has a 3.175mm shaft which means you would have to get a different coupler.

http://www.nitrorcx.com/96m296-3650-1500kv-25t.html

[aminoacid]

That Motor is 900 watts, is that too much or it just means less run time.

[Make-a-Wake]

Ratings are often deceptive, if you run it with a tame prop it shouldnt pull more than around 40a which on 4s puts you in the 550-600w range. The kv is alot more forgiving than the 2200.

[lenny]

You should go to a seaking 120a esc, For the money,http://www.hobbypartz.com/index.html
It will be a better for any future setups you may want to do later on.http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-62196343123315_2189_3104858
And this jacket will work with stock motor mount, I have the old number jacket. http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/prodimages/ose_metal_jacket_small.jpg
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-mjacket

[aminoacid]

somebody wanted to see pics of how my motor is mounted.
6718867189671906719167192

[aminoacid]

Now I have a question for you...
Where the heck do you put the battery(s)?? Considering that you have the ESC mounted to the battery tray... Just curious...


And Barnacles suck - they slow your boat down.

I actually put the battery on the battery tray under the ESC. I tried to balance out the boat, but my setup is not set in stone yet. until i get the right prop, motor, esc and trim tabs and rudder......basically everything!!

My question is how do i remove the radio box without damaging the hull?? I need to setup the new rudder and drill a hole for a single aftermarket rudder.

[lenny]

You will need to destroy the box,
Very carefully peace by peace and the bottom parts that are glued will stay their.
Just take your time and make flat as possible,
If you try to take the glued parts left out, You will rip the hull apart.

[aminoacid]

You will need to destroy the box,
Very carefully peace by peace and the bottom parts that are glued will stay their.
Just take your time and make flat as possible,
If you try to take the glued parts left out, You will rip the hull apart.

and what plans or ideas is there for a new radio box if i destroy this?

[lenny]

No radio box, But save the wood peaces for servo mount and etc,
Most boats and modded boats do not us them any more.
They take up to much room and you just need a glove or balloon for the rx,
Or 3M water proof spray, If you can find it.

[aminoacid]

Hey Billy, thanks for the information, i'm sure it took you a while to type all that out and i appreciate it.
I'm new to RC boating. First boat was a shockwave 55 gasoline, loved the fact i can run that bad boy for 30 minutes of full throttle and beating the hell out of it, along with letting my boys have at it, granted did flip belly up few times but nothing that can't be dried/replaced.

so i just wanted a quick little basher boat nothing spectacular. intent was only pop in a motor and maybe a prop cuz i already had the AQ esc from a UL-1. I'm starting to think that the ESC's technology isn't suitable for this little fart of a boat RIO. Anyways one thing led to another..... I seen videos of people who have done this to their RIO with great results, high 20's low 30's all out. i'm OK with mid 20's. I know the rudders were causing an issue cuz the boat would start to move in an "S" shape line, not that hard but suttle left to right, to the point the rudder went perpendicular on me. So looking at other's the put a single offset rudder to the right of the transom so i picked one up off ebay for 10 bucks shipped, havne't received or installed yet. I will try to keep the original radio box and swap places of the original servo and receiver, but i need to drill a hole for the pushrod that will be pushing the new rudder.
I know the boat isn't worth putting all that work into it and trust me i dont plan on putting much more in it if this doesn't work i'm done with it. I do have an SV 27 brand new with hardware, except motor an esc so I will spend a bit more effort with that one, but again i'm still a beginner and dont expect much out of the sv27 either, if i'm lucky 35mph which will be more than enough for me.
I do have a traxxas spartan i picked up for a good price in like new condition, box and all, kid used it couple times with the NiMh batteries and thats it. I put lipo's in it and its a quick, fun, stable for the most part boat. I'm sure others will have complaints on that one too but its fine for an RTR.

A bit off topic but I do like the PURSUIT and its RTR. i've seen it in mid 400's and mid 200's from VALUE HOBBY (http://www.valuehobby.com/pursuit-rc-boat-r1106.html) . Seems there are differences with this one and the mid 400's i've seen on OSE 's forums, some guy updates/builds/sells them or something of that nature. He has adjustable stinger and different motor and ESC. I will finish the SV27 and see how that goes before diving into another project.

Wanna buy a RIO EP......? grind, cut, mod, set of fire if you wish?

[aminoacid]

This is the motor that I have on 3s, gps at 32mph.
I have not tried 4s yet with it.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=6527
Hey lenny, which ESC do you have?

[lenny]

Hey lenny, which ESC do you have?
This one, http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=hef-sword-120
But I do not really like it, I would buy a seaking 120a.

[aminoacid]

This one, http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=hef-sword-120
But I do not really like it, I would buy a seaking 120a.

So this one Seaking 120a (http://www.nitrorcx.com/07e-c-seaking-120a.html) will I need a programming card (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ker-seaking-pcard&cat=136)? haven't the slightest idea about timings and programming. I thought they were all plug and play.

[Make-a-Wake]

So this one Seaking 120a (http://www.nitrorcx.com/07e-c-seaking-120a.html) will I need a programming card? haven't the slightest idea about timings and programming. I thought they were all plug and play.

No, a programming card is NOT needed, i can set the 5 parameters in my sleep with the transmitter based on the beep sequence, its very simple!!

[LarrysDrifter]

Damn, Billy. Chill out. Nobody is trying to get anyone to waste their money. There is a reason he suggested the esc he did. Ill let him explain it. There is no need to be harsh here. Most of us get along just fine, but sometimes people come along and act like an asshole. Dont be that guy.

[Make-a-Wake]

Lenny,
Your obviously an experienced user, that's why you can set the 5 parameters in your sleep using your transmitter based on the beep sequence. But like me, aminoacid is new to brushless. Expecting us to be able to do that is a bit off base; I have downloaded & read the manual, and I don't find it the least bit easy to program (HobbyWing) ESC's using the transmitter.

This programming module... http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e-hobbywing-led-programcard.html -- only costs $15, and the frustration it will save will be worth 5x that amount.

I have Traxxas Stampede that I plan on upgrading to BL in the near future. HobbyPartz sells complete kits with motor, esc and the above programming card. As you can see, that programming card can be used for: aircraft/heli's, cars/trucks & boats.

What if aminoacid decides to try out one of those other R/C hobbies?? Having that programming card on hand will make it a lot easier for him to program HobbyWing ESC's for those models as well as his boat.

Like aminoacid, I too have an AQ Rio EP that I have been working on upgrading to brushless. The Mickey Mouse stock motor mount was causing motors to burn up left & right. So I took it out and adapted a Cen Racing AquaJet EP aluminum mount to my boat, I'm in the process of putting the final touches on that conversion.

I plan on using a HobbyWing ESC regradless of which motor I choose. But monies tight & I'm still trying to learn about BL setups for boats, much different than cars/trucks, so going to do the Traxxas first - so I'll already have the programming card when it comes time to do the boat.

And now I have a question for you...
Why on Gods green earth are you so hung up on 120a~200a ESC's?? - Look at the pictures that aminoacid has posted of his boat. He's got a AQ 60a ESC - so why does he need "need" a 120a ESC?? To waste his money?? Or just for bragging on some forum??

First off, I'm not Lenny, and secondly since you couldnt understand that i was referring to the fact that it is simple to use.........I'm sure everyone else could understand that and i dont see the need for someone to spend money when he is smart enough to read and follow the instructions. Do you even own a T120................or a boat?

Your big long "copy and paste" posts are not very helpful as people cant ingest all that stuff and wont on this forum...............

[Make-a-Wake]

Quote Mr. Barnacle

"And now I have a question for you...
Why on Gods green earth are you so hung up on 120a~200a ESC's?? - Look at the pictures that aminoacid has posted of his boat. He's got a AQ 60a ESC - so why does he need "need" a 120a ESC?? To waste his money?? Or just for bragging on some forum??"

You obviously dont read cuz you are too busy trying to give everyone advice when you dont have a clue about FE boating
He has a 4s only ESC dude!!! He cannot run 3s on it which he said he wanted to try and the 120a can run any voltage up to 6s AND its only 49 bucks and he can use it if he upgrades.......................you need to keep it shut with all your bogus advice!!!!!!!!!!

Smoke on that Barnacle

[aminoacid]

yea currently i only have the 60amp UL1 ESC that only runs on 4s, nothing more, nothing less which sucks for this rio ep.
I picked up a 3650 1500kv and will try that on my current setup after the turn fins, trim tabs, and single rudder 75mm. If that doesn't work then, my next attempt will be
this linkified ------> MOTOR (http://http://www.nitrorcx.com/96m272-2848-2100kv-18t.html) and ESC (http://www.nitrorcx.com/07e-c-seaking-120a.html) with 3S batteries. Motor is a 36mm because of the fins can but 2848 power.
I also have a x437 prop on the way from Steve here on OSE.
Somebody here has the 3656 at 2600kv on 3s with 120esc hitting 30mph, aftermarket rudder and trim tabs, turn fins. Original stuffing tube.
Point being this is VERY possible.
No need for hostility guys, its a hobby and we're all sharing experiences and knowledge, no other more fun way to do this hobby.
The only acceptable fights and bickering is from a few hot NFL cheerleaders or maybe college.

Thoughts???????

[LarrysDrifter]

My thought is to see the hot cheerleaders.

[LarrysDrifter]

Thanks.

[silvermansteve]

barnacle, keep up the good work: telling these guys who have, in many cases, spent years doing this stuff! i say, go get 'em, because i sense a conspiracy against you involving some of these experienced hobbyists.