When did we lose our minds?

[domwilson]

Just sitting here at work thinking...When did we, as grown, free americans, lose our minds?
Take that anyway you want. I was thinking how we don't have the fireworks that I remember as a kid.
If a kid blew his fingers off, we'd think he was a big dummy. We would try our hardest not to be "That Guy". But no one pounded down the doors to city hall to make a law against it. Then we had street racing. A part of America's love for cars. Usually it was done on some abandoned road away from public traffic. If someone got into an accident, we would try our hardest not to be "That Guy". Sure it was illegal. You may get a ticket. Oh well. Now, fireworks are illegal. If you race, the police just take down your license plate. Impound your car the next day for disposal or destruction. Yes this has happened. When did we lose our minds? You can rant about other things. After a few posts, I'll explain the nostalgia.

[Insaniac]

The problem isn't that we have lost our minds, the problem is that a large majority of Americans have ZERO self control...they pretty much do anything they want, whenever they want...murder, mayhem...doesn't seem to matter to them at all...which is why we now have so many laws and lawyers!

[Rumdog]

Fireworks have been illegal for a long time in MI. Doesn't stop anyone from driving one state away to buy them, and never will. Laws are in place for one reason.. $$$$$$. The almighty dollar rules all in this world, in every facet of politics, law making, religion... everything.

I love when fisherman call the police when I'm trying to enjoy a waverunner ride. I take that oppritunity to vent. Every time.

[GeoVW72]

I think it was the early-mid '90 when someone won a law suit against McDonalds for not labeling coffee hot :blink:

And I don't really think that we lost self control, more, accountability. Why think about doing something stupid when you can sue; property owner/company/god, after the fact and get away with it.

[domwilson]

The problem isn't that we have lost our minds, the problem is that a large majority of Americans have ZERO self control...they pretty much do anything they want, whenever they want...murder, mayhem...doesn't seem to matter to them at all...which is why we now have so many laws and lawyers!

Do you think self control starts with parenting? I mean teaching values and discipline; Respect yourself and others?

[Peregrine]

I believe the real reason for most of the ridiculous laws is that most people are unwilling, or incapable, of accepting responsibilities for their own actions (read, stupid stunts). Example; a woman buys what she expects to be a hot cup of coffee, places it between her legs and then gets burned. Now does she think "Geez, that was a real stupid thing to do, guess I'll get this treated."? Heck no, her first thought "D&mn, that McDonalds should make me rich for my stupidity!" and sues them. Next stupid piece to the puzzle, the liberal judge who hears the case and awards in her favor instead of; "Hey Lady, you bought the coffee expecting it to be hot. You did something stupid and got burned. Then you did an even stupider thing and tried to sue the restaurant! As a reward, I rule that you get to reimburse the restaurant for their costs to be here for this ignorance, now get your ignorant &^% out of here!!"
Had this been the result, and had a similar result occurred in so many similar cases, things might be a little better.
Case 2: a man breaks into a house in the middle of the night, he leans on the kitchen counter and cuts his hand on a knife, yells, home owner turns on lights, he flees the house. Next this upstanding citizen sues the home-owner and WINS for the damage (cut) to his hand and is awarded damages!!
As long as cr^p like this continues in our courts our society is doomed to continue to get worse.
This doesn't even begin to address how bleeding hearts financially reward the lazy and worthless for refusing to work for a living and in fact gives them a pay raise every time they pop out another welfare recipient!
OK, I'll get off my soap box now!

[Insaniac]

Do you think self control starts with parenting? I mean teaching values and discipline; Respect yourself and others?

I couldn't agree more. When the PC folks started telling everyone how they couldn't "discipline" their children all respect was lost...right down the crapper!

[dana]

stupidity isnt a disease, but it sure spreads like one. humanity is going downhill

[Jacked1]

Fireworks have been illegal for a long time in MI. Doesn't stop anyone from driving one state away to buy them, and never will. Laws are in place for one reason.. $$$$$$. The almighty dollar rules all in this world, in every facet of politics, law making, religion... everything.

I love when fisherman call the police when I'm trying to enjoy a waverunner ride. I take that oppritunity to vent. Every time.

Wave runners are probably the funest thing in the world!

And I agree with the money part, I just got a $300 late fee for not paying for a summer class that I didn't enroll in

I think spanking kids in grade school again would fix a little bit of the stupidity as well.

[T.S.Davis]

I don't know when it happened but it sure seems money based to me.

There are so many things that make me want to scream at times. Here's another gem.

Most every state has it's own building code. Most of them are based on the International Building Code. Affectionately referred to as the IBC. Pretty much every aspect of construction is regulated by these texts. They're the "law" so to speak. It's not all crazy things like you would think either. It's actually based on science, and safety, and many years of experience from architects, engineers, builders, etc. You know, written by experts in the field. Seems sensible right?

Now if you build, you have to comply with the standards set forth by the building code. If you're building a hospital.......and you want to service medicaid or medicare patients.......and you want to be paid for doing so....you have to also comply with the Center for Medicaid/Medicare Standard. A separate set of standards entirely. Compliance with the IBC does not necessarily guarantee compliance with the CMS. Follow the money! Yet another layer of bureaucracy to gobble up tax payer dollars and drive the cost of construction up. Resulting of course in higher health care costs.

A little venting. Sorry guys.

[osprey21]

LBJ's "Great Society" played (and continues to play) a large part.

[domwilson]

Many of this countries financial issues could probably be traced back to Woodrow Wilson and his Liberty bonds. They were a good idea at the time but he underestimated the greed of his fellow Washingtonians.

But keep it coming....

[domwilson]

I asked this question to pick some brains. We all have a thought on the things that are going wrong. We have different focuses. Some say that it's the government's fault. Some think it is social issues that lead to the financial mess. While still others blame the media. What would happened if we treated each other with a little more kindness and respect? If we accepted what was fair and not what we think we are entitled to? If we smiled a little more at each other and not bury our faces in pocket gadgets? If we listened first to others rather than talking down to each other? If we traded and bartered rather than depend so heavily on money? Even if we thought more of what we are going to say before we say it? What if were didn't formulate opinions on whole groups based on the actions of a few? What if we didn't impose ourselves on others who don't impose upon us? And finally, What if we thought of ways to make other's lives easier rather than trying to gain power and control over them? What made this country great was our ability to overcome adversity and "Unite" to become one. Instead, we have let ourselves become divided and bicker over petty issues. We have the power. Let's use it for our betterment rather than our destruction. After all, we are the "UNITED STATES" and not the "INDIVIDUAL STATES"
Just my thoughts. What are yours?

[m4a1usr]

People are people. Doesnt matter what continent you live on. No matter the society, education level, financial ability. There will always be a percentage who are basicly greedy or feel they have to have more then what they have now or even any amount they hope to strive for in the future. Whether its money or not. And it doesnt have to be money either. Its about possesing something they feel is required to exist. Money is just one symptom of their issue. It could as well be about power over others. Its plain human fraility. A moral weakness.

If humanity wanted to be at peace with all its population, then restrictive binding laws would have to be placed in effect on every single person. Failure to obey and "the penality" would be a mandatory. No other option is possible. As a homogenous society we could make those changes but the very people enjoying such a lifestyle may very well be the ones doomed to tear down its majesty. Choices, being able to make independant decisions is what makes us do some of the greatest accomplishments and from which we grew. Being all the same, no individuality (logans run?) seems to be too far to the opposite side.

Dont worry folks. We are headed that way even if its not even remotely envisioned by us today. The 64 dollar question is what do I mean right?

Well in the last 40 or 50 some years we have been oddly enough creating something amongst us that might do that very thing. Maybe not control us but its going to be very much involved in every single thing mankind does and its is rapidly emerging as being smarter then us shortly. I dont mean next year, in a decade. Much further out. But AI is coming to your local electronic devices in greater numbers then ever and its always being developed to perform better then us mortals.

It will start with menial tasks. Sweeping the house (Roomba x10). Doing what we dread. It will morph to another form. Then another and another. Soon all that sci fi stuff we see on TV will be staring us back in the face. Seem too far to imagine? Back to our frailties!

So we are back to the orginal question? When did we lose our minds? We handed it over with total glee and assumptions of fairness. "No wait Dave, I feel something strange" (2001 a space oddesey). Coming someday to the reality of our destiny.

John

[domwilson]

Good points! But I think this is just one symptom of a bigger issue. I remember reading back in the 90's that apathy was going to be our biggest social issue. A silent epidemic.

[T.S.Davis]

I think I mentioned this on the other thread about state of our world etc.

I little self assessment would serve us all well too. How am I contributing to the human condition today? Am I adding or subtracting? Of course, that's probably debatable too. For some 1+2=orange.

[domwilson]

For some 1+2=orange.

That is funny!!! But sadly...true.

[domwilson]

Ok...This one has got to take the cake. I kid comes in for a job interview at my workplace. Job interview...No problem. Except this idiot brings his "Cutesie" little dog with him. When did we lose our minds?

[T.S.Davis]

I blame algebra. When letters started being equal to numbers that was the sine of the hypotenuse.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Just sitting here at work thinking...When did we, as grown, free americans, lose our minds?
Take that anyway you want. I was thinking how we don't have the fireworks that I remember as a kid.
If a kid blew his fingers off, we'd think he was a big dummy. We would try our hardest not to be "That Guy". But no one pounded down the doors to city hall to make a law against it. Then we had street racing. A part of America's love for cars. Usually it was done on some abandoned road away from public traffic. If someone got into an accident, we would try our hardest not to be "That Guy". Sure it was illegal. You may get a ticket. Oh well. Now, fireworks are illegal. If you race, the police just take down your license plate. Impound your car the next day for disposal or destruction. Yes this has happened. When did we lose our minds? You can rant about other things. After a few posts, I'll explain the nostalgia.


Being politically correct is killing us. When my sons and I are passing though security at the airport and they get scrutinized more than the 2 Muslim women next to us that all you can see is their eyes. I know we are in trouble as a society! My kids had shorts and tank tops on. these two women basically had tents over them. Who was more likely to be a threat? I guess my 13 and 15 year olds were.

Another thing, kids are no longer "allowed" to fail. Everyone gets a trophy these days.

By the way back in the day, I raced on the streets. WE called the place the marsh. ABout 2 miles of quite 2 lane highway in one direction. Kids for 40 years raced there. If we got caught hanging around there, the cops sent us home. These days they hand out "Driving to endanger" tickets. Which dont come with a fine. They come with a court date.

[domwilson]

At least you get a court date. I've known people who've got their cars taken and had to go to court to get them back. I guess it's that whole guilty before proven innocent mandate...I guess the justice system is getting more dislexic. But isn't justice supposed to be blind? Which once again brings me back to the original question...When did we lose our minds? Maybe it was in the mid '70's when it was suddenly fashionable of men to carry purses? Streaking? Arnold Horshack?

[Flying Scotsman]

I will enter the fray...speaking from the frozen north and as John (M4a1usr) aluded to, it is a global problem, the nanny state of any nation is obscene and ridiculous, but we are to blame as we pushed for silly laws.

Douggie

[Boaterguy]

being a kid, I agree with all that I have read so far (not all of it, kids are lazy).
Now for my own input. people say shildren are so rebellious these days, but if you put in the rules that existed 20 years ago, they would be fine. I understand that swearing/ being mean to your parents was not acceptable in that time, but alot more was. A few months back I helped my grandmother make a DVD out of all of their 8mm home videos, I don't remember the last time me and my friends biked around helmetless on a figure 8 track made of ice, where two jumps intersect. I don't remember when I last bobsledded down a forest, TRYING to hit the trees.
the less you let a kid do, the more they will want to do it.
read some of these http://www.embracethechaos.ca/

[T.S.Davis]

HAHA Just remembered a story about my old man. Gramma let gramps, my dad and his brother build full scale hydroplane right in the living room. A small one but not a toy either. Right down to the varnish work. Took it out through the picture window that overlooked the valley. Carried it down to the river to race it around. That's probably when my family lost it's collective mind. Maybe I should try that move on my old lady. Seems risky.

Does every generation say this about generations that are not their own? The youths say "You guys had it made!" and the old farts all say "what on earth is wrong with you people!"

The PC thing gets in the way of natural thought. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, has webbed feet..........maybe it's a danged duck. Not with the PC filter. To even notice that the duck has feathers is profiling and well profiling is wrong. It screws up your head with other lines of thought. You start to actually second guess your simple deductions. 1+2=orange starts to make perfect sense.

[Boaterguy]

your story brings up one of my own, I know a man who built a full size float plane in his basement, the wing would not fit up the stairs. Being a smart man he sent his wife away for the weekend, tore up the floor and brought the wings up through the floor, he was patting down the rug when his wife walked in the door, luckily for him, he made it.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Which once again brings me back to the original question...When did we lose our minds? Maybe it was in the mid '70's when it was suddenly fashionable of men to carry purses? Streaking? Arnold Horshack?

I have a crazy theory. Men have always been men. Many of us are like bunnies with one thing on the mind. For centuries the "women" controlled the relationship, by holding sex over her soon to be significant other. Once she received what she wanted, in most cases marriage, the fun began. Then some point in time, the womens sexual revolution began. Now women and I mean girls are more aggressive then many boys. "Good" girls are left at the wayside. I can not believe what these young girls act like. And what they are doing. Its no longer a courting to get what you want. At that point in time, we started to lose the value of marriage. Once that happened, we lost how good families are made.

[domwilson]

I have a crazy theory. Men have always been men. Many of us are like bunnies with one thing on the mind. For centuries the "women" controlled the relationship, by holding sex over her soon to be significant other. Once she received what she wanted, in most cases marriage, the fun began. Then some point in time, the womens sexual revolution began. Now women and I mean girls are more aggressive then many boys. "Good" girls are left at the wayside. I can not believe what these young girls act like. And what they are doing. Its no longer a courting to get what you want. At that point in time, we started to lose the value of marriage. Once that happened, we lost how good families are made.

I agree with this. In addition, women stood behind their men. It would appear that men were in control, but that was an illusion. Women in previous decades just knew how to make us think it was our idea. Thus the saying, "Behind every great man is a woman."

In these newer times, we are becoming more and more anti-social. Easily programmed by the few left who have any real sense of self-identity.
We continue to lose our moral base.

[Steven Vaccaro]

I agree with this. In addition, women stood behind their men. It would appear that men were in control, but that was an illusion. Women in previous decades just knew how to make us think it was our idea. Thus the saying, "Behind every great man is a woman."


EXACTLY! I'm glad, i thought I was going nuts!

[Simon.O.]

I hope this is kind of on topic here, it refers to the youth of today....sort of :wink:
http://members.tripod.com/special_ed_2/quotes.html

[domwilson]

It's not just the youth that have lost their minds. It's flowing like an epidemic. Look at our government, our media. Right now they are portraying Wendy Deng (Rupert Murdoch's wife) as some kind of super hero. Everybody's worried about the national debt. Domestic company's are moving their manufacturing offshore. Unemployment is high. And the government wants to raise taxes...again. The media screams that we owe China so much but we owe Japan even more. 7 Trillion to Japan. 5.4 Trillion to China. We hand out jail sentences like candy for minor crimes and let the big fish stay on house arrest or minimal sentencing. We are losing our minds because we are losing control of our lives.

[Flying Scotsman]

Ah, the original thread question has morphed into many different questions as to the state of our sanity and civility to ourselves and others in our community.

Douggie

[domwilson]

I guess there's no easy answer...

[HappyOne]

Fascinating thread...


I believe the real reason for most of the ridiculous laws is that most people are unwilling, or incapable, of accepting responsibilities for their own actions (read, stupid stunts). Example; a woman buys what she expects to be a hot cup of coffee, places it between her legs and then gets burned. Now does she think "Geez, that was a real stupid thing to do, guess I'll get this treated."? Heck no, her first thought "D&mn, that McDonalds should make me rich for my stupidity!" and sues them. Next stupid piece to the puzzle, the liberal judge who hears the case and awards in her favor instead of; "Hey Lady, you bought the coffee expecting it to be hot. You did something stupid and got burned. Then you did an even stupider thing and tried to sue the restaurant! As a reward, I rule that you get to reimburse the restaurant for their costs to be here for this ignorance, now get your ignorant &^% out of here!!"
Had this been the result, and had a similar result occurred in so many similar cases, things might be a little better.
Case 2: a man breaks into a house in the middle of the night, he leans on the kitchen counter and cuts his hand on a knife, yells, home owner turns on lights, he flees the house. Next this upstanding citizen sues the home-owner and WINS for the damage (cut) to his hand and is awarded damages!!
As long as cr^p like this continues in our courts our society is doomed to continue to get worse.
This doesn't even begin to address how bleeding hearts financially reward the lazy and worthless for refusing to work for a living and in fact gives them a pay raise every time they pop out another welfare recipient!
OK, I'll get off my soap box now!

You know, I tend to think that it starts before taking responsibility for one's own actions. I think many folks are effectively incapable of thinking deeply enough to even consider the repercussions of their actions and then the 'it's someone else's fault' position is actually a reaction to the sudden realization of the consequence. I think this trend has been developing for a long time now and has accelerated with the rise of the popular mass media. Now we have expanded beyond traditional print and into TV, online programming, email, IM, Tweeting etc. Society has developed an ever more shallow grasp on any particular subject or topic. We scan headlines but don't read the whole article or develop opinions based on unsubstantiated 'sound bites' we are exposed to on TV or through social media. Perhaps 100 years ago most society knew very little but their immediate business. Today, most have been exposed to a very wide variety of subjects and material yet very little has been adequately digested.

[LuckyDuc]

When did we, as grown, free americans, lose our minds?

I saw this on the news last night here in WI.
Lemonade stand shut down by police
http://www.kmov.com/news/off-beat/Lemonade-stand-shut-down-by-police-125937868.html

I'm not sure when we lost our minds, but it seems pretty clear that we have.

[domwilson]

A lot of good responses. No easy answers. So we have Politics, Social issues, personal responsibility, parenting and gadgets. I'll add apathy, cynical, hopeless, demoralized in to this. Maybe, people need to see hope for a brighter future, have more control over their own destiny's and fairly judged for the consequences of their actions? Maybe a fair chance to succeed and the appropriate rewards for failure? I'm curious to all this because my nephews and nieces have asked me this. When teenagers, who have access to a vast wealth of recent history ask you something like this, it really makes you think. I don't get to talk about the "Good Ol' days" without someone asking me why people were smarter back then.

[domwilson]

One of my co-workers says it all started with the boon of the credit card industry...1979

[LuckyDuc]

Credit cards definitely played a major role in the creation of the age of decadence... An age that is at it's end now.

[Flying Scotsman]

I do not tweet, facebook, blog and I do not watch any of the silly reality shows on the telly. I guess I am an old fart and is proud of that status.

Douggie

[befu]

Many of this countries financial issues could probably be traced back to Woodrow Wilson and his Liberty bonds. They were a good idea at the time but he underestimated the greed of his fellow Washingtonians.

But keep it coming....

Oh, you nailed it on this one! Politicians just keep building on it.

[properchopper]

Very heuristic topic. Thing is, while it's saddeningly easy to point out society's ills, focusing on the cure(s) is the important direction to go in. Considering that the bulk of developmental psychology thinking agrees that one's behavior, and moral compass, is passed on from parent to child in the first several years of human development, the child-rearing environment, when correctly focused can be the all-important curative factor of the ills discussed here. Not an easy task, as any parent can tell you, but if the focus on correct upbringing can be practiced for several generations the game changes from legislating morality to teaching and practicing it. Of course the argument can be raised that the requirements for parenthood are not much more than a functioning reproductive system and a pulse, so where do we start ? What works for me is model boating and giving back more than I get and maintaining a spiritual connection which gives me a daily reprieve from my demons and keeps the bracelets off.

[domwilson]

I'm not a parent, yet. But I see more and more of both parents working. Less quality time being spent with their children. Personal lives being invaded by employers, media, government, etc. Where do we start? How can we cut out some of the negative influences that affect us and replace it with positive role models? Yes good parenting would help. But is it enough?

[m4a1usr]

Very heuristic topic. Thing is, while it's saddeningly easy to point out society's ills, focusing on the cure(s) is the important direction to go in. Considering that the bulk of developmental psychology thinking agrees that one's behavior, and moral compass, is passed on from parent to child in the first several years of human development, the child-rearing environment, when correctly focused can be the all-important curative factor of the ills discussed here. Not an easy task, as any parent can tell you, but if the focus on correct upbringing can be practiced for several generations the game changes from legislating morality to teaching and practicing it. Of course the argument can be raised that the requirements for parenthood are not much more than a functioning reproductive system and a pulse, so where do we start ? What works for me is model boating and giving back more than I get and maintaining a spiritual connection which gives me a daily reprieve from my demons and keeps the bracelets off.

Good points Tony. We do give the benefit of doubt to those who imply morality in their family lifestyle. We consider it healthy and the assumption is it will continue to add value. But us as a whole have degraded from a steady family enviornment to a "change" with the times due to influences, whether from friends/media/social expectations/financial status.

Back in the 1800's (when a family was truely centered around itself) it was not uncommon to have a large family, yet most offspring might all die from disease, malnutrition or social issues such as war or similar hostility issues. Today a so called similar "Family" will sue a hospital or doctor because their brain dead or genetically mal formed child is not given a fair chance to consume air. I didnt say anything about becoming a contributing member of society. I mean all they will do from birth to death (however long that may take) is occupy space and somehow provide comfort to the parents. They lack any sense of honest intelligence. Because we can prolong life, it must be so. Damn anyone and their opinion. My child has a right to exist no matter the cost. All because of emotion. Cold? Yes. But we somehow managed to get past that discussion 100 years ago. Were we barbarians? No,............ they were honest to themselves. Today life is our right no matter the cost. Look where its taken us. We cannot even kill covicted murders today without a court hearing on the amount of pain and suffering that will be inflicted upon them. And yet today we call ourselves educated, intelligent, sympathetic to our surrounding society members. Nice little hypocrites our society has become.

John

[properchopper]

Because my mind is incapable of weighing all the societal complexities that place our current "civilization" in the stew that is now obviously boiling over , I have to stick to the rather simplistic notion that we desperately must produce offspring that are , and these are powerful words : Givers, and not Takers. And steer them, as best we can, regardless of the personal sacrifice involved, in a morally driven productive direction. While a tired argument; "If you need to study and practice to qualify for a driver's license, why does "qualifying" for parenthood only take the ability to (you know)." The countries of the world, ours included, are vastly overpopulated with children thrust into the world by parents incapable, and in far too many cases unwilling to provide in any way for their care and upbringing. Don't get me started there!

[Flying Scotsman]

Tony, you are correct and as I watched some idiot kids who rioted after a defeat of a hockey game in Vancouver..the parents should be also responsible for their actions....frankly I am fed up with today's youth...there are many great kids but a lot of morons as well.

Douggie, the old fart and proud grandfather of two amazing kids and no, they are not allowed to run my boats. They are 4 and 7 years old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH9IgJZCx4c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXKEMnDnQ4c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQDakdp5WZ0&feature=related

Just a few blasts from the past.

And one from a different era


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSeg69d3CQ8&feature=related

Douggie

[domwilson]

No doubt that today's society has a myriad of problems. Fixing them will probably have to start at the individual level. For some, (maybe a large number), that may require some professional help. But I think we can do it if we bond together like mature adults and avoid the bickering, Political correctness, apathy and narcism that has thus far, engulfed a large number of the masses. Just ask yourself...Are you up to the task? Do you have the strength of character and will to make a positive difference?