Minicat Velocity Cat-New

[Phaleronic]

Hey fellas,

I just received my new Velocity Cat and I'm impressed. I do have one issue though and that is a penny sized area of spider cracks on the left side of the hull (i'm attaching pictures). EDIT-Jim and crew were responsive and offered to rectify the crack situation promptly, they really do help the customer as much as possible.

I have a few questions though. I have my old Futaba Magnum FP-T3PG that I'd like to use in the boat, but I need a new battery pack for the transmitter (can't find either on ebay)-and charger, and a new micro receiver. Also, what brand and rating of battery should I pick up for this thing?

Some pics:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3356/5843926742_aa2680585f_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/5843925846_9e721fcc89_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3578/5843924716_da0d057ac9_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2658/5843471901_d24dbe5c00_b.jpg

Cracks:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3056/5843322249_bb3f580450_b.jpg


Thanks for any help in advance! :)

[Rich]

see if this fits, I have this in the mini eco from minicatracing http://www.hobbypartz.com/77p-sl3000-3s1p-30c-3333.html

[Alexgar]

I am building one from a hull and hardware I think most people are using 3s 2200 mAh batteries

[Phaleronic]

see if this fits, I have this in the mini eco from minicatracing http://www.hobbypartz.com/77p-sl3000-3s1p-30c-3333.html

Great, thank you for the link, I'll give them a shot.

[Phaleronic]

I am building one from a hull and hardware I think most people are using 3s 2200 mAh batteries

The directions give a maximum of 2200 mAh for the boat, what happens if I push a higher rated battery (motor burnout)?

[Rich]

A larger mAh rating will only give a longer run time. Think of mAh as the "gas tank" in your car. I would take some measurements to see if the lipo I suggested will fit.

[Alexgar]

I think it's more of a size restriction these boats are tight for space

[martin]

These are designed to use 3s 20c-25c lipo, Any higher on c rating & you risk damaging the esc. sailr on this forum is the best one to speak to on any of the Minicat Racing boats. Or get in touch with them. Martin.

[Phaleronic]

A larger mAh rating will only give a longer run time. Think of mAh as the "gas tank" in your car. I would take some measurements to see if the lipo I suggested will fit.

Got it, I'll take some measurements tomorrow.


I think it's more of a size restriction these boats are tight for space

Thanks for the feedback Alex.


These are designed to use 3s 20c-25c lipo, Any higher on c rating & you risk damaging the esc. sailr on this forum is the best one to speak to on any of the Minicat Racing boats. Or get in touch with them. Martin.


I'm talking to Jim about the cracks, I'll ask him about the battery threshold too. Thanks Martin.

[siberianhusky]

A higher C rating WILL NOT damage an esc! There is no way possibly for that to happen! If the boat is using battery C rating as a method to limit current draw there is something seriously wrong! The higher the C rating the more amperage the battery is CAPABLE of delivering, not what it's going to try to force into the esc and motor, current draw is determined by the motor and prop not the C rating!
The higher the C rating the longer your battery will last in terms of charge cycles as it isn't heating up as much or being stressed as much as it is not being discharged as close to its limit.

[sailr]

Sorry, but you are totally wrong! High C rating batteries deliver a very high PUNCH on first use which some FETS and Capacitors cannot withstand. This is from experience, not conjecture! We found this with our older ESC's which were designed back when 20C was the latest and greatest.. Our new ESC's should be able to take them OK but as a precautionary note we recommend staying away from anything more than 25C.

Why do you think people are adding more capacitors to their esc's? You never heard of this until 30-40C batts came on the scene!



A higher C rating WILL NOT damage an esc! There is no way possibly for that to happen! If the boat is using battery C rating as a method to limit current draw there is something seriously wrong! The higher the C rating the more amperage the battery is CAPABLE of delivering, not what it's going to try to force into the esc and motor, current draw is determined by the motor and prop not the C rating!
The higher the C rating the longer your battery will last in terms of charge cycles as it isn't heating up as much or being stressed as much as it is not being discharged as close to its limit.

[sailr]

You heard back from us immediately upon contacting us. Too bad you posted this before giving us a chance to make it right to you. You proposed a discount or replacement. You agreed to a certain amount of refund which we have provided to you. Your post makes it sound like we were not responsive. Most on here know our customer service is beyond reproach so we found your premature post a bit puzzling. Your proposed that perhaps it was the esc hitting the boat on the inside during shipping. We took that to heart and now all esc's are bubble wrapped inside the boat before shipping. Thanks for the suggestion!


Hey fellas,

I just received my new Velocity Cat and I'm impressed. I do have one issue though and that is a penny sized area of spider cracks on the left side of the hull (i'm attaching pictures). I emailed and called minicatracing, but have yet to hear back from them.

I have a few questions though. I have my old Futaba Magnum FP-T3PG that I'd like to use in the boat, but I need a new battery pack for the transmitter (can't find either on ebay)-and charger, and a new micro receiver. Also, what brand and rating of battery should I pick up for this thing?

Some pics:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3356/5843926742_aa2680585f_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/5843925846_9e721fcc89_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3578/5843924716_da0d057ac9_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2658/5843471901_d24dbe5c00_b.jpg

Cracks:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3056/5843322249_bb3f580450_b.jpg


Thanks for any help in advance! :)

[martin]

Sailr is spot on re higher c lipos & you will blow the esc in these boats going higher than 25c. Ask me how i know, I went from 25c to 45c fully understanding i would probably blow the esc as i intended replacing with a better higher amp esc anyway & as expected it blew a few weeks after. Re higher c lipos i went from 25c to 45c & now using 60c & saw higher speeds with each increase in c rating on the same size lipos. Martin.

[Boaterguy]

the C rating will not blow the ESC, the C rating is how much a battery CAN discharge, not how much it WILL discharge.
Again use the gas tank metaphor. a gas tank with a large nozzle/ hole can put out more fuel, but the gas won't come out on it's own, but the motor will draw a certain amount of gas out of the tank.

[martin]

I think youll find that the 30amp esc in these boats cannot take the extra amp draw that the motor can draw from the higher c rated battery & ends up blowing the esc. Martin.

[Boaterguy]

a 30 amp esc is small, it should be upgraded to something around 60.

[martin]

This goes to show that their is a difference between say 25c & 45c on the same set up, The fact that the esc is perfectly happy running a 25c but when you put a 45c it will blow these 30amp esc. I know that for a fact as ive done that on this same motor & esc thats in the Velocity cat & i think Sailr at Minicat Racing has seen enough blown esc returned to him through people using to high c rating. Personaly i use 60amp esc on micro boats on 60c to very good effect as i run a hot set up at 42,000 rpm unloaded turning x632 & x435 Octura. Martin.

[Phaleronic]

Jim refunded some money to compensate for the cracks in the gelcoat, thanks again Jim! Sorry I didn't update this sooner. Jim has been awesome regarding the small crack issue and has been prompt and courteous, a great experience overall.

I'll heed the advice too regarding the batteries.

[sailr]

Our new GII boats have been upgraded to 40A. The 30A never had a problem with the draw from the motor as it only draws about 20-25 amps continuous with spikes to 30. But because the Generation II boats now have a 4 pole, 3200KV motor, we did decide to upgrade to 40A.

We don't have enough of an experience curve yet on the new 40's regarding C ratings. According to the manufacturer, they still recommend no more than 25C. So to err on the side of caution, we're sticking with that. If you have good luck with higher C rated batteries, be sure to let us know.

[Brushless55]

the C rating will not blow the ESC, the C rating is how much a battery CAN discharge, not how much it WILL discharge.
Again use the gas tank metaphor. a gas tank with a large nozzle/ hole can put out more fuel, but the gas won't come out on it's own, but the motor will draw a certain amount of gas out of the tank.


a 30 amp esc is small, it should be upgraded to something around 60.

:iagree:
if the esc is not holding with better lipos, then a bigger esc should possibly be used
maybe just the next size bigger

[sailr]

Read my post just above yours.

[Brushless55]

Read my post just above yours.

already did before I posted

[sailr]

Then you saw that we have gone to a 40A rather than the previous 30A (next size bigger)? Not sure I understand your post then?

[martin]

Can some one please explain to me that a higher c rating will not blow an esc, When these 30amp esc are ok on 25c but will blow going to 45c. If the higher c rating is only the batterys ability to put out more amps why do these 30amp esc blow when on 45c. Its been mentioned that the 30amp esc is not high enough & the next size should be used, But its high enough when using a 25c & dosnt blow. Martin.

[sailr]

While yes, the higher the C rating, the more the pack can deliver, it is also true that the higher the C rating, the more PUNCH they have out the gate! The initial SURGE is much higher. I'm sure those of you who have used a 25C and then put in a 45C in a given boat can see a huge difference in the initial accelleration! Nothing that mysterious! That is one reason that people have been adding more capacitors to their esc's.

[martin]

Sailr i know that & so do you as ive gone through 25c to 45c & now 60c with noticable differences in performance. I would like it explained that a higher c rating wont make any difference to blowing an esc as has been said. Martin.

[sailr]

Yeah, me too. Those who say C rating doesn't matter must know something we don't. A lot of the esc manufacturers have not kept up with the advance in batteries. In fact, in China, they rarely run anything more than 25 or 30C I have been told.

[Rich]

Our new GII boats have been upgraded to 40A. The 30A never had a problem with the draw from the motor as it only draws about 20-25 amps continuous with spikes to 30. But because the Generation II boats now have a 4 pole, 3200KV motor, we did decide to upgrade to 40A.

We don't have enough of an experience curve yet on the new 40's regarding C ratings. According to the manufacturer, they still recommend no more than 25C. So to err on the side of caution, we're sticking with that. If you have good luck with higher C rated batteries, be sure to let us know.


Our new GII boats have been upgraded to 40A. The 30A never had a problem with the draw from the motor as it only draws about 20-25 amps continuous with spikes to 30. But because the Generation II boats now have a 4 pole, 3200KV motor, we did decide to upgrade to 40A.

We don't have enough of an experience curve yet on the new 40's regarding C ratings. According to the manufacturer, they still recommend no more than 25C. So to err on the side of caution, we're sticking with that. If you have good luck with higher C rated batteries, be sure to let us know.

Sailr, as you recall I have purchased a Mini Eco from you sometime ago. I have been running a sky lipo 3000 mAh 30c/ 60c burst. I have had no issues with the esc blowing. The temps stay around 100f. I think the esc it's self doesn't care about the "C" ratings. Its more the caps not being able to cop with voltage changes while running the boat. If you use a lower C rated battery the voltage changes will be larger (= more heat) then if you used a higher C rated battery (= less heat). I add caps to my MeanMachine's esc to cop with this voltage change and it brings down the temps on the caps as well. That being said, the 45c lipos are going to have less of a voltage change, so why are they blowing? What part on the esc is going up in smoke? Also take into consideration that the new 4 pole motors are going to be way more efficient then the 2 pole motors. Repeated on/off throttle also causes extra heat in the caps. Let me throw another brain teaser at you, if I were to use a 25c 2200mAh lipo, that would be 55 amps continuous, which is higher than the 30A, or the 40A for that matter, rating of the two esc's in question. Lets take this a step further, the burst of those lipos is likely to be at or above the 30c mark (depending on the lipo of course), so what is causing the problem? It is for these reasons that I cannot see the "C" rating being the cause for the esc's magic smoke. I hope someone else can give a better insight because this is an interesting discussion.

[Brushless55]

Sailr, as you recall I have purchased a Mini Eco from you sometime ago. I have been running a sky lipo 3000 mAh 30c/ 60c burst. I have had no issues with the esc blowing. The temps stay around 100f. I think the esc it's self doesn't care about the "C" ratings. Its more the caps not being able to cop with voltage changes while running the boat. If you use a lower C rated battery the voltage changes will be larger (= more heat) then if you used a higher C rated battery (= less heat). I add caps to my MeanMachine's esc to cop with this voltage change and it brings down the temps on the caps as well. That being said, the 45c lipos are going to have less of a voltage change, so why are they blowing? What part on the esc is going up in smoke? Also take into consideration that the new 4 pole motors are going to be way more efficient then the 2 pole motors. Repeated on/off throttle also causes extra heat in the caps. Let me throw another brain teaser at you, if I were to use a 25c 2200mAh lipo, that would be 55 amps continuous, which is higher than the 30A, or the 40A for that matter, rating of the two esc's in question. Lets take this a step further, the burst of those lipos is likely to be at or above the 30c mark (depending on the lipo of course), so what is causing the problem? It is for these reasons that I cannot see the "C" rating being the cause for the esc's magic smoke. I hope someone else can give a better insight because this is an interesting discussion.

That's a really good way to put things
having a higher C rating can actually lower cap temps!

[sailr]

It's not the Velocity 30A's that were blowing, it was the Tenshock esc's in the Micro Hydro and Starship. Somehow this got into the wrong thread. You guys can argue all you want. The fact is, and I sell the stuff, that anything over 25C used to blow the 30's!~ OK? I don't care why, I just know it did. Now with the new 40A's in the Micro Hydro, STarship and Mini ECO, it doesn't seem to be such a problem.

Let's put this conversation to bed. Nobody is ever going to agree.

[Rich]

It's not the Velocity 30A's that were blowing, it was the Tenshock esc's in the Micro Hydro and Starship. Somehow this got into the wrong thread. You guys can argue all you want. The fact is, and I sell the stuff, that anything over 25C used to blow the 30's!~ OK? I don't care why, I just know it did. Now with the new 40A's in the Micro Hydro, STarship and Mini ECO, it doesn't seem to be such a problem.

Let's put this conversation to bed. Nobody is ever going to agree.

:iagree: lets get back on the task at hand.

[wparsons]

The only way that a higher C battery will blow an ESC when a lower C pack didn't is when the motor wants more juice than the battery can supply, and the amount it wants is enough to blow the ESC. When you give it a battery that can supply that amount of power the ESC can't take it.

On the other hand, your batteries aren't going to last long at all if the motor is constantly trying to draw more current than they can deliver, AND it can also blow an ESC with the ripple currents.

The ESC should be able to handle more amps than the motor will want, and the batteries should be happy delivering more amps than the ESC can handle, that way everything is happy running together.

As for needing a 60a esc in something this small, thats overkill unless you're way over propped on a high kv motor.

[Phaleronic]

Maiden voyage today in the canal, I ran a 2200mAh 25c pack and the boat is a screamer, thanks Jim! It also self righted twice (hatch was taped, but I haven't put foam in yet). No videos as I didn't have a helper. (edit)-Jim, what would you do to improve top end performance of the boat? Thanks. :)

Decals arrived today too. :D

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5314/5889601097_84eb3093a8_b.jpg

[sailr]

Good to hear she's running good for you! I'm surprised it self-righted as the cat really isn't designed to do that like the Velocity Mono will.

[sailr]

Sailr, as you recall I have purchased a Mini Eco from you sometime ago. I have been running a sky lipo 3000 mAh 30c/ 60c burst. I have had no issues with the esc blowing. The temps stay around 100f. I think the esc it's self doesn't care about the "C" ratings. Its more the caps not being able to cop with voltage changes while running the boat. If you use a lower C rated battery the voltage changes will be larger (= more heat) then if you used a higher C rated battery (= less heat). I add caps to my MeanMachine's esc to cop with this voltage change and it brings down the temps on the caps as well. That being said, the 45c lipos are going to have less of a voltage change, so why are they blowing? What part on the esc is going up in smoke? Also take into consideration that the new 4 pole motors are going to be way more efficient then the 2 pole motors. Repeated on/off throttle also causes extra heat in the caps. Let me throw another brain teaser at you, if I were to use a 25c 2200mAh lipo, that would be 55 amps continuous, which is higher than the 30A, or the 40A for that matter, rating of the two esc's in question. Lets take this a step further, the burst of those lipos is likely to be at or above the 30c mark (depending on the lipo of course), so what is causing the problem? It is for these reasons that I cannot see the "C" rating being the cause for the esc's magic smoke. I hope someone else can give a better insight because this is an interesting discussion.

Apples and Oranges! The C rating determines what the battery is capable of delivering. It has nothing to do with what the motor is going to draw or the esc is going to react to. Regardless of the C rating of the battery, 25A draw from the motor is still 25A!

[Brushless55]

That's right, if a motor is only pulling 25a through a 30a esc, it does not metter if you use a better and higher c rated batter... it won't blow
If the esc does blow, something is up and it has nothing to do with higher c rated packs...

[sailr]

Ah Jeeeez! One more time. The initial surge out of the higher C rated packs blow the FETs in the original 30A Tenshocks. Forget it, I'm tired of arguing about it. The FACT is it happens. I don't give a rat's behind why!

[Brushless55]

initial surge?????
like you said, the motor will only pull what it needs, you wont have a HUGE sure if the motor does not need it!!
if it's only pulling 25amps then that's all it's pulling
lots of esc's out there that handle way more amps than what is posted on them and they can take High C rated packs without any issues at all
Ah Jeeeez! sounds more like junk caps than anything else :doh:

[Phaleronic]

First video:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/valtoninc/5893355838/

[sailr]

Look, I try to be honest with my customers by telling them that anything above 25C will blow the esc. Junk caps, bad FET's, whatever! We have now fixed the problem. Give it up!

[sailr]

Glad you enjoy our little Cat! The little guys really boogie!


First video:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/valtoninc/5893355838/

[Rich]

First video:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/valtoninc/5893355838/
That thing is COOKIN'! Enjoy that boat, like I enjoy my Eco!

[sailr]

F.Y.I. we have ONE Velocity Cat left in stock at the sale price of $209. We will NOT get any more like this. The boat has been redesigned. Not as cool looking but supposed to be faster/more stabile. I can't imagine how. WE shall see! We probably will not have those in stock until Late August, early September.

[Dustin Sontag]

I will post a video of my little v-Cat when I get the drive line issues sorted (self created).

I will say.. It is fast. Mine is almost too fast.

I am running the following:
ESC 120 amp
Stock 3000kv 2 pole motor (no heat issues)
6S 45-60c 1350 mah
stock prop

Best speed on radar was 64 mph (no where near WOT), next pass i twisted the stock drive line when I went WOT at 55mph. It held for 3 days of test/ tune / play.

Video coming soon.



Due to my addiction i also picked up the last Samurai. I will tinker with it and see what come up. Im thinking 12S and a hydra HV 240.........

[wparsons]

You're revving that stock motor to about 65k rpm? The 120a esc is probably overkill since your battery can only give 60a happily.

[Dustin Sontag]

I agree in it being over kill, but it was on shelf here in the shed so it went in. Better wet than collecting dust I say!

And yes 66,600 free rpm.

[sailr]

You will blow the Samurai motor in less than a minute if you try to run it on 12S. No warranty on anything over 4S on that motor. I still can't believe the velocity motor has held up at 6S.

I forgot to enclose the instructions with your Samurai. You can download them here:
http://minicatracingusa.com/images/instruct/samuraiinstruct.pdf

[sailr]

We are down to two Velocity Cats. They are being discontinued. We will continue to have parts for them.

A new series of small cat and mono will be coming in later this summer. Totally new designs. They will be the "Dominator" series.

Also a new mono, the "Flash V-28", will be added later this summer. 24" (hull length) 28" including rudder, etc.

Stay tuned for news!

[Dustin Sontag]

keep me posted, Im working on a collection. :)

[electric]

Sailr, I have to smile over here, I have seen you having this same conversation over and over on the amp/c rating issue. Seems like no one seems to want to believe you...even though you have been selling the boats for years now and know exactly what works and does not work. Keep up the patience. Maybe you just gather all the other links that are just like this one and post them for those who are new to the boat. Best of luck....kinda like the movie Groundhog Day...

[sailr]

Haha. Thanks. Yeah, everybody but me knows everything. Oh well!

[Dustin Sontag]

Thats how it goes man, lol Wife just called said I have a box from Florida at the house.....


Wonder what it could be.... :)

sailr what would you recommend as a motor upgrade? i will be running min 6s 2p. But they are tiny 1350 mah so they are only a couple of oz heaver than my zippy 3s 2500mah pacs. Im not looking for run time, i want all out drag speed. Will be running it on 3s 2p in parallel at first light with my hk 120a esc.

[sailr]

6S may burn up the original motor but not sure. Never tried it. Not sure what to recommend. I don't think a NEU 1515/1Y will fit in the boat. Maybe try one of the Leopard motors of similar physical size as the original motor. With your setup you're only going to have 2700mAh! Whatever you put in the boat will probably be drawing around 100A as it is a submerged prop. Hope you don't want to run long! That setup will give you about 1.6 minutes. You'll need at LEAST 40C packs to be able to deliver 108A continuous.

[Phaleronic]

Looks like I stirred up a hornets' nest. :P

I'm really digging the boat Jim, thanks again! I would like a bit more topend on the cat, what do you recommend? I'm still running the 3s 2200mAh packs. I did put some decals on the boat, but I will need to redo them since they're off and I didn't have my good knife to cut them with.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6008/5935476378_f9b09540b9_b.jpg

[Brushless55]

I will post a video of my little v-Cat when I get the drive line issues sorted (self created).

I will say.. It is fast. Mine is almost too fast.

I am running the following:
ESC 120 amp
Stock 3000kv 2 pole motor (no heat issues)
6S 45-60c 1350 mah
stock prop
Best speed on radar was 64 mph (no where near WOT), next pass i twisted the stock drive line when I went WOT at 55mph. It held for 3 days of test/ tune / play.
Video coming soon.
Due to my addiction i also picked up the last Samurai. I will tinker with it and see what come up. Im thinking 12S and a hydra HV 240.........

Love to see that video!

[Phaleronic]

Love to see that video!

Me too :)

[sailr]

The boats are designed around certain parameters including how many cells, prop, etc. We have never tried to hop one up as they run great right out of the box! Have you tried moving the battery back just slightly, like 1/4-1/2"? That will bring the bow up and possibly give you more speed but it could also cause it to get airborne and flip more easily. I really can't recommend anything else. 35-40mph is pretty fast for 17"!


Looks like I stirred up a hornets' nest. :P

I'm really digging the boat Jim, thanks again! I would like a bit more topend on the cat, what do you recommend? I'm still running the 3s 2200mAh packs. I did put some decals on the boat, but I will need to redo them since they're off and I didn't have my good knife to cut them with.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6008/5935476378_f9b09540b9_b.jpg

[Phaleronic]

The boats are designed around certain parameters including how many cells, prop, etc. We have never tried to hop one up as they run great right out of the box! Have you tried moving the battery back just slightly, like 1/4-1/2"? That will bring the bow up and possibly give you more speed but it could also cause it to get airborne and flip more easily. I really can't recommend anything else. 35-40mph is pretty fast for 17"!

I haven't moved the battery around, I'll give it a shot, thanks Jim.

[Phaleronic]

Moving the pack back a half inch didn't do much. Anyone try different props on this boat?

[Phaleronic]

It's that time of season again. :)