New to FE boats, Bought a Spartan.

[Doug B]

Hi! Just wanted to introduce myself and talk a little bit about my plans for this boat. Unlike many people that purchased this boat expecting it to be perfect, I knew it was flawed / imperfect and bought it knowing it would be a challenge, but thats part of the fun, right? Oh yeah, that and I got a great deal on a new one from the hobby shop.

So far its stock, and has never been wet. I was initially intending to take her for a spin today with the nimh batteries that are included (I don't have 2 identical 7.4 packs and have no 3s packs, will be getting some zippy's most likely) but have decided that I don't want to even bother, and I think I should have a rescue vehicle present before any boating happens :)

I intend to use as much of the original running hardware as I possibly can, meaning the ESC, and possibly the motor. We'll see how that works out for me.

I have already put in an order here at OSE, I ordered the brass tube, .150 cable, teflon liner, bullet nut, 2 water outlets, some largere hose, and the aluminum water jacket designed for the stock motor. I wanted a dual inlet rudder but they didnt have the one that would be the closest fit compared to stock, and I wanted the trim tabs with water pickups, but I didnt see those either. In fact all the water inlets were out of stock, so I have decided to fabricate my own transom inlet.

My hopes are to blueprint the driveline as best I can, add a second water source and run the cooling to motor and esc seperately, at that point we'll see if the motor survives, and if not Ill look for a replacement that can still use the traxxas ESC, presuming they havent issued an upgraded motor by that time.

I also want to seal the hatch better than it is in box stock form, seems to me that is a great area for an aftermarket company to make some improvements, a little sturdier piece with the contours changed to allow taping would be great.. but the 1/4" foam stripping will likely be my immediate solution.

Why the spartan? well, I like a challenge and part of the hobby for me is the bench time, planning and executing upgrades, that sort of thing.. it also is designed for exactly what I want, a fun boat to play around with that handles a little chop, and has a pretty impressive top speed for what it is.. I also know that Traxxas (approached corrctly) will bend over backwards to keep their customers happy.. I know that isn't an opinion that some people here share, but in my experience that seems to be the case.. and if I can use the stock motor and speedo, that 20.00 lifetime warranty seems pretty atttractive.. assuming Im not smoking them left and right..

I looked at the UL1 superior, the Miss Elam, the Motley Crew, and this boat quite a bit, read forums about the UL1 and Spartan, watched all the videos, before coming to a decision, and my decision was this- The spartan design is a bit of a standout in the RTR boats, and doesnt compare well to the hydros and cats.. and that I would need to have one of each.. with the short run times on boats having a few to run will make for a better day playing in puddles, and I think I will eventually want to race something.. probably FE Hydro... looks like Ohio has some racing going on so I should be all good there..

So anyway, I expect to see my parts around thursday / friday next week, and after my boat has some unique features Ill start posting up some pictures, making observations, and asking questions.. not looking to set the world on fire with this one, no desire to prove false advertising (thats been done numerous times already) I just think that set up right it should be a fun boat, even if it means propping down and running 45 mph instead of 50.

[chadrob30]

:welcome: I also have a Spartan but have sunk a few bills into it...still waiting on connectors and cable, prop nut, etc...then it'll be time to get it wet....enjoy your stay here...great bunch of guys with tons of knowledge.

[dag-nabit]

Welcome to the forum, and have fun with the Spartan.

If you change your mind on fabricating the transom pick up, the trim tab pick ups are available here at Kintec Racing: http://kintecracing.com/Supervee_27_upgrades.html

There are actually for the SV27, but require only minor modification for fitment on the Spartan.

Kevin

[Doug B]

chadrob- Ill probably end up sinking a couple hun in it, the last order was just under 70.00, simply buying a motor will put me near 2 hun :P I just dont want a 1000.00 traxxas (anything)

I think I am going to also build one from scratch, using the Castle marine stuff, and lots of little chi-chi parts, havent decided on a hull yet for that. I like the idea of an FE tunnel hull, really.

Dag- I may, I have seen those too, Im going to dig in my small parts boxes 1st though, I may have something left over from a previous project that will work without being a hack job. Is Kintec reliable? someone that is here on the forum maybe? I like some of the products I see there, I could definitely see ordering some of it down the road.

[dag-nabit]

chadrob- Ill probably end up sinking a couple hun in it, the last order was just under 70.00, simply buying a motor will put me near 2 hun :P I just dont want a 1000.00 traxxas (anything)

I think I am going to also build one from scratch, using the Castle marine stuff, and lots of little chi-chi parts, havent decided on a hull yet for that. I like the idea of an FE tunnel hull, really.

Dag- I may, I have seen those too, Im going to dig in my small parts boxes 1st though, I may have something left over from a previous project that will work without being a hack job. Is Kintec reliable? someone that is here on the forum maybe? I like some of the products I see there, I could definitely see ordering some of it down the road.

I've ordered several times from Jan at Kintec with no issues. Occasionally, if stock is back ordered, your stuff arrives short an item or two, but Jan ships back orders as soon as he gets stock at no extra shipping cost.

Kevin

[Doug B]

I just ordered a pair of the transom pickups from him, just the little single bolt design, I want to get them as low and centered as I can, I think I can get them more inboard than the inner trim tabs, and that should give me a better chance of keeping them in the water. With those and the other pieces the cooling system should be on par with other, more successful platforms out there.

Question on thrust bearings- I see that the way it is out of the box, when I push on the prop, the drive cable moves until the back motor bearing catches the stator. This can't be good on that motor bearing, or the stator.. seems that would be a "required" part on a boat as the entire boat is being pushed from that point.. and it seems the thrust in between the drive dog and strut would actually be the ideal location..

How do the thrust bearings available here and at kintec stop movement, are they resting on the end of the motor can, or the motor mount, or what? I cant seem to find detailed pics of how that goes together. Kintec shows a spacer available, but it looks like youd just transfer force to the front motor bearing instead of the back one? surely that cant be right? Enquiring minds want to know...

[chadrob30]

OSE, Kintec, and Kershaw Designs have all sent my items very quickly...great vendors...I don't really want a $1000 Traxxas anything either, but between my Slashes and Spartan that was eclipsed a long time ago, lol...

[jj2003]

I've ordered several times from Jan at Kintec with no issues. Occasionally, if stock is back ordered, your stuff arrives short an item or two, but Jan ships back orders as soon as he gets stock at no extra shipping cost.

Kevin

I ordered 2 transom pick up-up's, a pack of shear bolts, a stock replacement prop, receiver box seal kit and a prather s220. They all arrived in 3 days after ordering except the back ordered prather prop and Jan quickly credited my paypal account the same day I emailed him back after he included a note about the back ordered prop. Excellent ship time and service! Top notch!:thumbup1:

[Doug B]

Kintec has already sent me shipping confirmation on my order :) 9AM the monday after ordering it saturday night, can't beat that with a stick :) I am sure both Kintec and OSE will continue to get my business, I'm super glad to have found this site :) (while typing this my order confirmation has come through for OSE as well, I can't tell you how impressed I am by that.)

Still have the thrust questions, is there anyone that maybe knows where to find installation pictures? Pushing the boat around using the drive cable and rear bearing on the motor sounds like asking for problems with both items.. is there a thrust that will work (survive) on the strut behind the drive dog? That definitely seems like the logical place to put one.

[GeoVW72]

Still have the thrust questions, is there anyone that maybe knows where to find installation pictures? Pushing the boat around using the drive cable and rear bearing on the motor sounds like asking for problems with both items.. is there a thrust that will work (survive) on the strut behind the drive dog? That definitely seems like the logical place to put one.

Agreed, I have no clue why Traxxas would build a bullet proof product overlooking that.

Here's my install:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BubiMsAaEow/TZqK45BKYTI/AAAAAAAAAd8/kLPfOmOhVs8/s400/IMG_20110404_145144.jpg

Boca 5mmx12mmx5mm thrust bearing (http://www.bocabearings.com/bearing-inventory/thrust-bearings/10630/f512stp-5x12x493) and 2 tamiya bushings

This one (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-53136) from Steve should work.

Basically you transfer the thrust to the front motor cap, not the bearing :thumbup1:

You don't really want the thrust bearing behind the drive dog because it won't allow the cable to load and shrink properly.

[Doug B]

Awesome, thats the pic I couldn't find, thanks. I have a Boca coupon I need to use anyway, so I'll probably go with their bearing, and Im sure I have some busings / spacers around here to take up the slack.

SO.. another question then.. the cable is supposed to load and unload due to thrust and decel? I understand the windings will tighten during acceleration, and loosen during decel, but I don't completely understand why you would also want it to compress and extend, it seems it would just cause wear to the tube / liner / cable. I'm not disputing the truth of it so much as looking for the reasoning behind it.

Another question.. I have some Park Tools Polylube 1000 bike grease, its waterproof, the right weight for the application I believe, is pretty 'sticky' and tends to stay put well, doesnt attack plastics or rubbers, and is good to 500 F, will this be an acceptable lube for the drive cable? It looks similar to what I see pictured coming out of people's strut, and it HAS to be better than the oil they included lol.. and yes, its inexcusable to ship these with an unlubed drive cable.. I checked, mine is, and has the junk liner too.. Im sure the one I have is 1st run stuff.. no rolling changes for me lol.

[Diesel6401]

Awesome, thats the pic I couldn't find, thanks. I have a Boca coupon I need to use anyway, so I'll probably go with their bearing, and Im sure I have some busings / spacers around here to take up the slack.

SO.. another question then.. the cable is supposed to load and unload due to thrust and decel? I understand the windings will tighten during acceleration, and loosen during decel, but I don't completely understand why you would also want it to compress and extend, it seems it would just cause wear to the tube / liner / cable. I'm not disputing the truth of it so much as looking for the reasoning behind it.

Another question.. I have some Park Tools Polylube 1000 bike grease, its waterproof, the right weight for the application I believe, is pretty 'sticky' and tends to stay put well, doesnt attack plastics or rubbers, and is good to 500 F, will this be an acceptable lube for the drive cable? It looks similar to what I see pictured coming out of people's strut, and it HAS to be better than the oil they included lol.. and yes, its inexcusable to ship these with an unlubed drive cable.. I checked, mine is, and has the junk liner too.. Im sure the one I have is 1st run stuff.. no rolling changes for me lol.



Best speed grease to get: http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-aqub9500 do it the right way, no need to risk your setup for a few bucks. If that lube you have works great, you save $3, but if it fails at (26,000+ rpm), it's gonna cost more then $3 to fix everything that gets damaged... Your LHS may have some, surprisingly mine did and the have like no boat stuff... OSE is out of stock but if you need to order some online, tower or kintec racing should have some.

[Doug B]

I received both of my packages tonite, and I installed the aluminum water jacket- its a super nice piece, and installation was a snap. The 1.5mm screws came out easily, the stock cooler slid off easily (whadda joke, easy to believe its a leakin, motor overheatin' failure) and I used a little seal conditioner (green slime, its intended use is to lubricate shock seals) and the new jacket slid on easily. I aligned the outlet for the highest point on the jacket, so I shouldnt have pesky air pockets.

The transom water inlets are going to be a little tricky to get mounted where I think I want them, I may need to buy some tubing and make slightly longer pick up tubes.

I bent my stuffing tube in a very gradual arc, leaving straight tube at both ends, I will trim it and get it installed next time I can play with the boat. I realized after getting the cable in my hand that the traxxas strut is larger in dia. than the shoulder on the cable I bought, so that and the bullet nut that fits it get binned till I have a boat it will work on. I thought about changing the strut, but dont think changing hardware significantly is something I want to do to this boat.. that molded plastic transom isnt something I want to heavily alter, I like those blind holes. Plus Im not looking to sink a fortune into it.. I want to build something custom instead.

Sharpened the turn fins and rudder, shaped them with my dremel and then used an old knife sharpener set to put a 25 degree edge on both sides.. I stopped short of razor sharp, but they should cut cleanly through the water.

I've pretty completely convinced myself not to get too anxious to go to 6S with this thing, while I think near 50ph speeds would be fun, I'd like to get a little mileage out of the stock electronics, so I am thinking that a pair of 5S packs in parallel would be a great setup, plenty of available amperage, plenty of runtime, and it wont be running the electronics on the ragged edge.. and being a shade heavy doesn't bother me too much, its not like Im going to race this thing..

my target for being "ready to run" is next sunday (11 days) hopefully the weather cooperates :)

On that motor cooling jacket- the oem one had grease on it from assembly, with enough in some of the channels to obstruct flow, especially if it made it to the exit hole.. and speaking of channels, it has more rubber in contact with the can than water.. I think that is the 1st thing that should be changed on this boat.. I don't know who thought that would work on 6S doing 50mph, but they should be forced to turn in any cad software they are in possession of.. /rant.

[Doug B]

I've been pretty busy, So far the stuffing tube has been changed along with the teflon liner, I am using the stock cable for now, and I found some proboat marine grease to lube it up with (yep, one of my local hobby shops stocked it)

I added the second set of trim tabs, added two water inlets and outlets, 2 transom water pickups, I had to make the pickup tubes as the stock ones were too short, I may have to fab a brace that uses the trim tab screws to hold them in place.. we'll see. They seem very sturdy as-is.

I upgraded the servo to the digital traxxas servo, so I could use my KO EX5-ur radio with it, I have a helios I use to race my cars on but dont want to risk it near the water.. for now Ill use the traxxas radio, till its dialed in and working..

Large diameter tygon hoses throughout, 3 water pickups, 2 routed through the esc's ports, 1 dedicated to the motor, all three on seperate outlets.. I should not have problems with water flow.

I know between the trim tabs and the 2 pickups I've dirtied up the back of the boat, and it will cost me some speed on the top end, but if the boat lives longer than a run or two it'll be worth it.

I ordered 2 4000 mah, 30C 5S lipos, to be wired in parallel.. this again will cost me some speed but should help keep the stock electronics alive a good long time.. and with this setup Ill have 8000mah and 60c continuous discharge, so I shouldn't struggle with available amperage, nor should it stress the batteries more than necc.

The last piece besides the batteries is the thrust washer from boca, it should be here by the end of the week, along with cells.. Im hoping to get it on the water sunday :)

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo167/LW_Icarus/spartaaa007.jpg
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo167/LW_Icarus/spartaaa006.jpg
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo167/LW_Icarus/spartaaa005.jpg
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo167/LW_Icarus/spartaaa003.jpg
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo167/LW_Icarus/spartaaa004.jpg
http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo167/LW_Icarus/spartaaa002.jpg

[dag-nabit]

Lookin' real good Doug.

Keep us posted on how it runs on 5S.

Kevin

[Doug B]

Got the boat out today, I'm pretty unimpressed with its performance on 5S, but it ran well, motor temps never got over 85 F, ESC was 95 F, stuffing tube stayed cool, I ran for probably 10 minutes, and the batteries took 1600 mah each to recharge.. thats two 5S packs with a combined mah of 8000, so I could easily run 15 minutes the way Im set up.

Speed? not so much.. I don't have a GPS to get real numbers, but 30mph would be my guess.. It's pretty heavy in the water, and runs wet.. even moving both batteries as far back as they go and taking off the hero cam didnt make a big difference, other than making it less stable..

So.. at 5S, should I prop up a little more? I was going to check and maybe play with the strut angle a bit, its very close to flat right now.

Ill put up some pics and maybe some video... think Im going to go run it one more time first.

[Doug B]

OK, so I must have inadvertantly switched it into training mode somehow, because I made sure all the settings were right, and tried to get the steering centered and stuff, when I went out the second time it was alot, and I mean alot, faster than the previous run. after the lackluster performance the 1st time I put the prop a little deeper in the water and started out with the batteries rearward.. big mistake.. was a huge handful, wanted to roll ofver onto its side, jump out of the water, that sorta thing.. ran about 10-12 minutes anyway, moved that batts forward a little with limited effect.. motor came out at 85 F, ESC 105 F. Got hero cam footage of all of it.. I think Im going to move the strut back to level and get the trim tabs down a little, as well as move the batteries further forward yet, and go for one more run. If I can get her stable on the water and run close to the speed I was getting I think Im more or less happy with the way it performs.

[Doug B]

I need some help / advice / input please.

I ran the boat a total of 3 times today, and on the final run I had the batteries all the way forward and then moved them 3" back, The strut was set flat, the inner trim tabs bent to have the trailing edge even with the bottom of the hull. The rudder was set parallel to the transom. Stock prop and motor, 5S power. GoPro installed. (Video is uploading now, will link once its viewable.

My problem is mostly the fact that the boat won't ride on an even keel at speed. At half throttle or below it appears dead level in the water, but at any speed higher, it falls over to the side, usually the right hand side, but when I turn to bring it back up it just flops to the other side.. this is pretty apparent in the video Im uploading.

The previous run I had the batteries towards the rear of the boat, and then 3-4" forward from the rear, and it was slightly more stable in the water left to right, but was trying to 'jump' out of the water alot. At this point the trim tabs were still up a bit.

Now, I do have 2 relatively heavy batteries, twin 5S 4000mah 30C packs, but they arent that much taller or heavier than a pair of 5000mah 3S packs, and I would think that would serve to make the boat ride lower in the water and be more stable, not less?

I know the GoPro adds some weight up high and makes the boat a lil bit top heavy, but ideally Id like to have it stable with the go pro installed, Im hoping to use it to get some good footage of my buddies hydros when I get a chance to run with them.

What adjustments should I make? is raising the strut the answer? I tend to think that getting the back of the boat deeper in the water is what I want to do..

Sorry if Im being a little vague, I tried to include most of the info, and I think the video will tell the story.. its kind of long, I didnt bother editing anything..

[Doug B]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ8AwkzgWqc

[Diesel6401]

I ordered 2 4000 mah, 30C 5S lipos, to be wired in parallel.. this again will cost me some speed but should help keep the stock electronics alive a good long time.. and with this setup Ill have 8000mah and 60c continuous discharge, so I shouldn't struggle with available amperage, nor should it stress the batteries more than necc.


Only the mah rating is increased running in parallel. You will not have a 60c discharge it will still only be 30c. The "C" rating is the cells individual ability to deliver running in parallel doesn't change the cells chemistry...

Running parallel:
2x 5s 4000mah 30c = 5s 8000mah 30c.



remember even though you might have the capacity to run 15m's, if the electronics will handle that amount of runtime is a different story. 3-5 minutes is typical in FE boating.

[Doug B]

You are of course correct, it would still be 30C, but it is indeed twice the available amperage, all the same.. I keep forgetting that C rating is dependent on battery capacity.. ofc we didnt use C rating anywhere before lipos came around, and Im an old guy, set in my ways. Thanks for correcting my syntax, my point still stands.

As far as run time, if I can only run 3-4 minutes then I have a boat for sale.. luckily Ive already run 10-12 minutes without overheating anything, and probably need to point out that I havent got this thing running on the ragged edge of what its capable of.. if mph were my only concern Im sure Id only be good for 3 minutes too, but im not racing, Im just playing around, and Ill de-tune to get the runtimes I want.

[Doug B]

Sunday I ran 4 more times with the spartan, and I think its much more stable, the biggest change was changing the strut angle to very slightly upward. Before making the adjustment I disassembled the strut and removed the blue anodizing where the pieces make contact, as no matter how tight I had the bolt, the strut still moved while running, ie: set the strut slightly up and it would be slightly down when you pull the boat out of the water.. anodizing makes the surfaces slippery and now it seems all good.

Anyway, the boat was fun to run, and stayed pretty even with the two Miss Elam's that were there, I had fun chasing them around, and being able to run the boat at WOT. I ran about 6-1/2 minutes per charge, and the stuffing tube stayed cool, the motor showed 109, and the esc got to 115. This was on a near 90 degree day, so as it sits it seems pretty dialed. I was only using a little over half of my batteries charge per run, so that seemed pretty acceptable too. The dive cable had a film of grease after 2 runs, don't think Id be comfortable going 3 runs without greasing it.

Im going to lower the strut just a hair the next time I run it and try to find the sweet spot, I think I can get some more speed without making it totally uncontrollable.

Anyway, the gopro was on and recording most of the time, I threw some of the clips together and made a video, its not great or anything, maybe Ill try to put a better quality vid together next time we run.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6KC_t47U7A&feature=share

[Just ADD Water]

That video was cool!! very nice ... ran mine today for the first time with 6s !!! wow what a blast... i have to say thanx to all the very smart guys here ! for all the info ..if it had been for this forum i would have been in alot of trouble ...lol .. My spartan is the new update model with new motor ...all i did was add bigger water lines and drilled out the pick ups and outlet on side .... motor ran 98 degrees and ESC was 109 degrees..i ran 2 3s 11.1v 45c 5000mah proteck lipos..packs were 99 degrees ..ran for 10 mins ..water was about 70 degrees ...hope this sounds right ...if i doin somthing wrong please let me know thanx David

[Doug B]

Thanks bud! I'm just getting started with the video thing, hope to do some in the future that are a little more than just chopped up footage :) Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on yours, I'd make sure to give those packs a little time to cool between runs, but under 100 is still plenty safe.

As an aside, I just returned from the hobby shop, where I ordered a Miss Vegas Deuce from Aquacraft.. I know, I know, its nitro, and this is an electric forum, but after running my buddies nitro hydros the other day, I couldn't resist.. Im not too concerned about tuning the engine, I was a gas racer for quite a while, this shouldnt be substantially different.. Ill probably get a fast electric cat after Ive recovered from this purchase :)

[Just ADD Water]

5574555746....nothing special !.. just some still shots of her before a run !