FINALLY, got to run my Spartan

[dag-nabit]

So, I finally got to run my Spartan a few times this past weekend. Overall things went very well, with only a few technical difficulties.

No amazing revelations, most of what I experienced has been documented already.

I was running by myself, so sorry, no videos and only a few boring pics confirming temps etc.

Most of you know my setup from following my threads the past few months, but here is a quick recap of the key modifications for those who are new here.

-Tacon 3674 1700kv motor with upgraded aluminum cooling jacket.
-T180 ESC set at 15* timing advance
-Prather S215 prop, sharpened polished and balanced
-Additional water pick up mounted on Trim Tab Adjuster
- Jeff Wohlt .150 flex cable and upgraded collet.
- MaxAmps 6500mah 3S 150C and Turnigy Nano tech 5000mah 3S 45C batteries


http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/4d1825ca.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/5604713f.jpg

First run:
Water was very smooth and calm, and I started out with batteries full forward, the boat ran extremely stable but top speed according to Eagle Tree GPS was only 47kph (29 mph). I wasn't timing the runs but I'm guessing about 5-6 minutes on Maxamps 6500mah 3S batts before hitting lvc.

I had excellent water streams coming out of both outlets, so the modified rudder,and trim tab adjuster water pick up, work well.

The boat had a lot of torque roll to the right.

On subsequent runs I worked the batteries toward the stern, and also made minor adjustments to the right trim tab to try and correct for the torque roll. I also found the strut had a wee bit of negative trim, even though I thought I had it set neutral. I adjusted it slightly positive.

As I worked the batteries toward the back, the dreaded death wobble reared it's ugly head. My best recorded speed was 64.5kph (40 mph) with the batteries all the way back, but the chine walk was severe enough I wasn't able to run WOT.

I found the best running was with the batteries at the mid point. Only minimal chine walk, and still hitting 62 - 63 kph (38-39mph) at WOT with a good stable ride.

I know I can squeeze more speed out of this configuration, just need to settle down the chine walk first.

The last couple runs I pulled the liner out of the stuffing tube to see if that would help the torque roll, it didn't eliminate it, but seemed to help a bit. Hard to say for certain though, the water conditions were a bit rough on Tuesday and the boat was hopping around a fair bit.

I headed to the lake Friday and spent part of the day running the Spartans and my other boats, then headed back to town for the night. When I left for the lake again Saturday to spend the remainder of the long weekend at the cabin, I somehow managed to leave the eagle tree sitting on the table, therefore I don't have a lot of eagle tree data to evaluate yet. However temps were consistently in the mid 30 *C range (95*F) on the motor, esc and batteries, with the water temp at 10*C (50*F). Amp draw was spiking 120-140, but seemed to average around 50-60 amps.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/8af1e847.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/b0587a91.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/a8012838.jpg

Quirky LVC
I found the lvc on the T180 a bit quirky.

Originally had lvc set at 3.2v cut off. First two sets of batts came off showing just over 3.7v residual, but only 10-15% charge capacity remaining.

Changed the lvc setting to 3.4v for the next two runs and it was just about perfect, high side of 3.7 volts residual, and about 22-24% charge capacity remaining.

Then the next few runs the lvc (still set at 3.4v) was kicking in after only a minute or two of run time, with 75-80% charge remaining in the batts. I checked everything over thoroughly, but could find nothing that may have been causing the issue, so set the lvc back down to 3.2 volts.

The next few runs were better, but still short. Residual voltage over 3.8v with 50 -55% charge capacity left.

The last couple runs I lowered the lvc to 3.0v. The run times were OK, residual voltage was over 3.7v, and 35-40% charge remaining in the batts.

I plan on leaving the lvc at 3.0v for several runs before lowering it any further to ensure it is stabilized. (unless it starts drawing the batts too low again, in which case I will increase the lvc set point).

I was running all brand new batteries, so that may have had something to do with the erratic lvc behavior until they had a few charge cycles on them??

Next time out
I will be sure to have the Eagle Tree with me.

I will start experimenting more with tweaking the set up and will run a couple different props to see what the results are for amp draw, etc.

Overall it was fun to finally get back on the water after a long winter. The top speeds were a bit disappointing, but with a bit of tweaking and finding the right prop for this setup, I think the Spartan's will provide a lot fun for us this summer.

Kevin

PS my daughter was away on a school trip and not with me at the lake, so we didn't run her boats, but her Spartan is setup identical to mine so i suspect results will be similar.

[dag-nabit]

Here is a couple Eagle Tree graphs from the second and third run of my Spartan

3rd Run
Tacon 3674 1700kv w/ Prather S215
Batteries full rear point in tray
T180 - Timing set 15*
Water Temp 10*C (50*F)
Max Amps 122
AVG Amps 57.5
Max GPS 64.46 kph (40 mph)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Eagle%20Tree%20Graphs/e893050a.jpg

2nd Run
Tacon 3674 1700kv w/ Prather S215
Batteries mid point in tray
T180 - Timing set 15*
Water Temp 10*C (50*F)
Max Amps 121
AVG Amps 58
Max GPS 62.78 kph (39 mph)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Eagle%20Tree%20Graphs/0f1a0fe5.jpg

Kevin

[millzee]

Hi, maybe I should put this in the "whats the dumbest question" thread but, how do you save those eagle tree snap shot's? I was playing around with mine the other night and just didn't know how to save the graphs as pic's?:confused2:

[dag-nabit]

Took me awhile to figure it out as well.

Click on "chart settings" in the lower left corner, then click on the export tab.

You can also change the pen colors and a bunch of other stuff in chart settings.

Kevin

[millzee]

thanks mate, I'll have a play around tonight:thumbup1:

[scoota]

This might be the 2nd dumbest question , but how do you guys post those big a$$ pictures ???

[millzee]

I only just learnt this one the other night, you'll need to set up a Photobucket account, just the free one is fine. Then load the pic's you want to share and I've been opening (double left mouse click) them large in photobucket, then right mouse click on the large picture, go into properties and copy the Address (url), some sites will need the http:// and other (like ose) will already have it. Then when your typing a post you just click on the insert image icon above the message box and then paste the url.
I hope this helps.:thumbup1:

Thank god for this spartan thread, a few of us are learning a thing or two, sorry dude, keep up the good work on your boat!!!

[scoota]

Cheers Millzee :thumbup1: Kevin, sorry for asking these dumb questions in the middle of your thread ....:tape:

[dag-nabit]

Based on the the the thoughts/theory discussed about the drive line augering grease out of the stuffing tube, I have completed the following mod on my driveline, based in part on recommendations by George (GeoVW72).

I drilled out the back strut bushing to 1/4" diameter and approx. 4mm depth using a 1/4" drill bit and drill press.

I then made a new stuffing tube out of 1/4" K&S tubing approx. 8mm longer than the stock stuffing tube. (ballpark length, take your own measurements to be certain)

I lined it with Octura teflon liner.

The stuffing tube now fits into the rear bushing on the strut, Because drilling the bushing out with a 1/4" drill bit and drill press is hardly "precision" milling, the fit is a bit loose. (not an interference fit)

I adjusted the length of the stuffing tube a wee bit by sanding off the end until I got the correct length so the stuffing tube is "bottomed" out on the lip inside the strut bushing. This provides forward support for the strut to help hold it in place and maintain the correct negative/neutral/positive trim.

I have mine set at approx. 1mm positive trim. Minor adjustments can be made either by sliding the component tray forward or backward a mm or so, or by loosing off the stuffing tube clamp at the front of the tray and moving the stuffing tube forward or back a mm or so. (Be sure to leave clearance for the collet.

I also plugged the vent hole in the strut with silicone.

I'm hoping this might help retain grease on the flex shaft.

Hopefully can run it sometime this weekend to see if it works.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/a5379049.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/bdd35f3a.jpg

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

GLORY BE AND HALLELUIAH

Grease Left on the drive line!!

The mod I did above has helped retain grease on the drive line. It is still pushing out around the back of the strut where I did the modification, but some grease is now left on the flex shaft after 2 back to back runs.

Not sure how well it shows in the photo, but there is a decent layer of grease left on both the flex and stub shaft.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/9384ba30.jpg


You can see the grease is still squeezing out around the end of the strut where I mated the stuffing tube into the shaft.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/6e03a1ce.jpg

I may try a bit of silicone around the end of the stuffing tube before inserting it into the strut to see if a bit more of a seal will retain more grease. I'm going to wait to be certain I have the strut angle where I want it before I try this. That way there will be less chance I will be pulling things apart very often.

I gained a new respect for the Spartan today. Ran it in some very rough water and it handled admirably. Batteries mid point, strut approx 1mm positive angle and it ran very stable. It was in the air almost as much as it was in the water.

To rough to hit WOT but had a couple decent runs on an S220 prop.

Kevin

[GeoVW72]

Excellent :w00t:

I see plenty of grease on that shaft, the stock ends up dry, even with the larger brass tube.
Should run great once you get some water calm enough to hit WOT, more speed, very little chine walking.

[dag-nabit]

Excellent :w00t:

I see plenty of grease on that shaft, the stock ends up dry, even with the larger brass tube.
Should run great once you get some water calm enough to hit WOT, more speed, very little chine walking.

I noticed the torque roll seemed to be gone when I was running this time, and on a larger prop as well. Can't say for certain because the boat was hopping around so much, and I wasn't torquing it hard on the throttle, but it definitely seemed better.

I'm guessing the little bit of positive pitch on the strut has helped.

Hopefully will find out this weekend, heading for the cabin right chicken Louie. weather not looking great right now, but hopefully it will co-operate to get in a few runs.

Should get some video this time as well, and will be running my daughters Spartan for first time too.

Kevin

[roadrashracing]

I am trying a new idea for the grease issue, I had ordered some parts from the hobbyshop and they ordered me a stuffing tube seal even though I did not need it. WHat I did is I cut the current seal at the hull so part of the stuffing tube was showing, then I just compressed the seal as I tighted the stinger.

[dag-nabit]

I am trying a new idea for the grease issue, I had ordered some parts from the hobbyshop and they ordered me a stuffing tube seal even though I did not need it. WHat I did is I cut the current seal at the hull so part of the stuffing tube was showing, then I just compressed the seal as I tighted the stinger.

That looks like it might work.

Let us know the results. You may need to plug the vent hole in the strut if you find the flex cable is still looking dry after a run or two. I found a lot of grease stuck to the strut behind the vent hole.

[dag-nabit]

Here are a few "on the water pics" from the weekend.

We were having too much fun running to take time to do much for videos, although I did get a short one I will maybe post up later.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/055457da.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/274a276e.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/1039be01.jpg

Kevin

[Snafujg]

Kevin, in one of your other posts, you mention the death wobble at WOT. I would suggest the double trim tab setup. It helped my boat tremendously. The only time I get the wobble now is if the water is choppy. If it's smooth, my boat sits on top of the water and glides nicely.

I think the death wobble comes from the trim tabs being so high. At high speed, the boat really gets out of the water so I think the original placement is too high. When you lower them down to the holes closer to the bottom, they seem to sit right on top of the water.

[dag-nabit]

Kevin, in one of your other posts, you mention the death wobble at WOT. I would suggest the double trim tab setup. It helped my boat tremendously. The only time I get the wobble now is if the water is choppy. If it's smooth, my boat sits on top of the water and glides nicely.

I think the death wobble comes from the trim tabs being so high. At high speed, the boat really gets out of the water so I think the original placement is too high. When you lower them down to the holes closer to the bottom, they seem to sit right on top of the water.

I have been reading the posts about moving/adding trim tabs and it is something I am considering trying.

Just trying one thing at a time, and also trying to just have some fun running our boats.

I will probably order up a couple sets of tabs to give it a try.

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

A very short video of my Spartan running. Nothing new or spectacular here, just proof it runs. :smile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU4suaGaYE0

Kevin

[chadrob30]

Is the "vent hole" actually an oil hole? I always put a couple drops of oil in there before and after running lol....hope it's ok by doing that. Oops...

[dag-nabit]

Is the "vent hole" actually an oil hole? I always put a couple drops of oil in there before and after running lol....hope it's ok by doing that. Oops...

Perfectly fine to add a few drops of oil. Some boaters recommend adding a few drops of lightweight oil to the stuffing tube in addition to greasing the flex shaft.

I should clarify, I'm not recommending sealing off the vent hole, just suggesting it as something to try. My mod above, which includes sealing the vent hole, has resulted in having residual grease on the flex drive after a couple consecutive runs.

Kevin

[roadrashracing]

I ran my spartan today witht the new setup and it worked really well.

[dag-nabit]

I ran my spartan today witht the new setup and it worked really well.

Did you have grease residue on the drive line after a couple runs?

Kevin

[roadrashracing]

yep

[dag-nabit]

UPDATE:

So here is a bit of an update from a couple weekends ago. I have commented on some of this in other posts already but here it is....

On my last weekend off my Daughter and I had the opportunity to get in several runs with the Spartans, and our other boats. We had a blast, but it was an eventful weekend of running.

This was the first time my daughter ran her Spartan, and she was pretty excited, not more than a minute into her first run the drive cable snapped. We are running aftermarket .150 cables from Jeff, and the liners are changed out to Octura. I also modified the stuffing tubes as described above.

The cable snapped just .5 inch away from the stub shaft. not sure what caused it to fail, but fortunately the cable splayed enough to get tight in the liner and we didn't lose the prop. There was no sign of overheating and the liner was not damaged.

Slipped in the Traxxas OEM cable and we were off and running.

A few minutes later my Spartan died mid run. (of course about as far away from me as possible. I waded out to retrieve it while my daughter took great joy in trying to spray me with her rooster tail.

Turned out the negative wire on my Eagle Tree let loose. Bad solder from the factory. I thought the Eagle Tree was fried because the plastic wrap was melted and it was all black underneath. I soldered it back together a couple days ago and fortunately it seems to be still working. But we were without it for the weekend, so no data graphs for you this round.

A few runs later we had a little side swipe collision, We were coming toward each other with good room to pass by, I was at pretty much WOT and the boat took a pretty good sideways hop and I couldn't correct in time. It didn't appear to be much of a hit (sorry no video) but my turn fin caught her hull and sliced it open like a razor blade. (I had sharpened the edges on the turn fins)

The hull is cut clean through between the red marks, just as clean as if done with a razor.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/1d9d5238.jpg

I didn't have the correct glue with me for a repair, so she ran the Fightercat for a few runs.

After several more good runs I broke the drive cable in my Spartan. Running the same setup as in my daughters boat, but my cable snapped right near the collet end.

There was evidence of overheating on both the stuffing tube and flex cable with both showing discoloration. The liner was destroyed at the point the cable failed. The stuffing tube did not get hot enough to melt the plastic on the component tray.

Again I was fortunate not to lose the prop. Although the stub shaft came out far enough for the prop to contact the rudder and gouge it a bit.

This of course raises the whole chicken or egg question; which came first, did the cable start to fail, bind, over heat, and then completely fail, or; was the drive line dragging causing enough friction to overheat and cause the cable to fail?? There was no prior evidence of drive line heating, and it failed in the straight part of the stuffing tube, not at the bend.

You can see the discoloration on the stuffing in this photo
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/90fec6b1.jpg

Failed cable is also discolored
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/d510b3d2.jpg

Damage to liner, the pile of "stuff" is failed liner material, it would pretty much turn to powder if rolled between your fingers.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/4bbf844c.jpg

Damage to Rudder
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/4d4faf49.jpg

Despite the set backs we had a ton of fun, we both like our Spartans (when they run they are a blast) and if they can hang in reliably for a couple seasons I will be OK with the coin I had to drop into them to make them work.

All the other mods are working great, good water flow from the trim tab pick up, grease residual on the flex drive after running with the longer stuffing tube, Tacon motor seems good so far, lvc on T180 seems a bit quirky but watching it to see what is happening.

Everything is repaired and ready to run this coming weekend if the weather co-operates.

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

TURN FINS STRICTLY COSMETIC??

After the collision with my daughters boat, one of the screws on my turn fin was pulled out and the threads stripped.

I took the turn fins off and took the boat for a short run. It seems to handle and turn fine without the turn fins.

I haven't run it enough to form a definitive opinion on the handling characteristics without the turn fins (especially high speed turns) but the initial indication I'm seeing is that the turn fins are ineffective on this hull and pretty much cosmetic only.

I hope to get in some good runs this weekend and will update after I have a chance to further evaluate the handling sans fins.

Kevin

[bdp1174]

Hey Kevin what type of glue do you recommend on abs plastic for hull repairs and for gluing the seam between the top and bottom hull pieces?

[dag-nabit]

Hey Kevin what type of glue do you recommend on abs plastic for hull repairs and for gluing the seam between the top and bottom hull pieces?

Most glues that work well on ABS actually fuse the parts together by chemically "dissolving" the plastic together. Most glues that work well on ABS will contain toluene or acetone, although there are a couple other chemicals used that also work.

This works well if the parts mate together well, as was the case with my repair. I just used good old Testors plastic model cement and let it dry overnight. If possible clamp the parts firmly together until the glue sets. The shape of the hull doesn't always facilitate easy clamping, On this particular repair I used a piece of lightweight mechanics wire wrapped around the hull and then just twisted the ends with pliers to tighten it enough to cinch the halves of the split tightly together.

I have seen a couple other products recommended here (I think there is a thread on it) but availability of "designer" adhesives isn't great where I live. So I went with what was readily available.

If you have a gap between the parts that require repair, then you need to source a product that has gap filling ability.

Kevin

EDIT: Here is the thread on adhesives: http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=25560

[roadrashracing]

Have you solved your grease exit problem yet? I blocked the whole in my strut with some jb weld, I ran two packs today with that setup, no grease mess and a nice coating on the flexshaft yet.

[dag-nabit]

Have you solved your grease exit problem yet? I blocked the whole in my strut with some jb weld, I ran two packs today with that setup, no grease mess and a nice coating on the flexshaft yet.

Yes, with the extended stuffing tube, and the hole plugged in the strut, I have a decent coating of grease left on the flex shaft after two, back to back, runs.

The silicone plug came out of the hole on my daughters strut and the flex shaft on her boat was pretty much completely dry after one run.

Going to have to find a more permanent way to plug the hole.

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

Crappy weekend at the lake for running RC. Cold, wet and windy all weekend.

Only got one run in with the Spartans.

Mine was handling well with the turn fins removed, and got a quick video of my daughter running hers in rough water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfZRhlHR2fk

Kevin

[roadrashracing]

I love running mine like that, the challange of not flipping over

[dag-nabit]

MAJOR MELT DOWN

Headed out to the lake Monday evening and arrived in time to charge up a few sets of batteries and make a couple runs before the sun set. The lake was nice and calm so I was looking forward to some WOT run time.

First run went pretty well, managed to record my best speed to date of 79.1 kph (49 mph) but death wobble was very much present at high speeds, I'm certain it is what is preventing me from breaking the 50 mph mark.

The boat handled, IMO, exactly the same without the turn fins installed as it did before I removed them, so I'm convinced they are really only cosmetic on this hull. I'm not suggesting pulling them off for no reason, but if you damage one, or don't like the look of them, try removing them to determine for yourself if you think they do anything on this hull.

The temps were a bit higher than normal after the run at 35 - 39 *C (95-102 *F) on Batteries, Motor, and ESC. Not problematic, but because they were higher than normal I double checked everything, including the stuffing tube, and everything seemed pretty consistent. I chalked the rise in temps to lots of WOT running.

I popped in a fresh set of batteries, and less than two minutes into the run the boat made a funny noise and stopped dead.

When I opened the hatch the smoke rolled out and I'm thinking I've blown the motor or ESC, but it smelled like melted plastic, not electronics.

Turned out I twisted up another flex cable (third one between two boats) and seriously overheated the stuffing tube (warped it)

Melted Stuffing Tube Clamp: The glob of spun plastic looks fairly solid in the picture but it is spun plastic strands, like cotton candy.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/91558cc5.jpg

The clamp was fused together with the tray, had a tough time getting them apart. Also fused right onto the stuffing tube.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/173062aa.jpg

The Stuffing Tube Guide is Also Melted
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/54a139dd.jpg

Details on Damage to the Stuffing Tube and Flex
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/68140997.jpg

This Gives an Idea of the Area Where the Damage Occurred
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/5939bc48.jpg


I believe the binding was starting on the first run, causing the temps to increase a bit, then failed during the second run.

I don't see much in the Eagle Tree Data to suggest a problem, amp draw was pretty normal compared to previous runs, although my battery voltage did sag very quickly toward the end of the run.

This does confirm my 79 kph top speed. GPS Green - Amps Red - Voltage Blue

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Eagle%20Tree%20Graphs/ac093a90.jpg

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

After twisting up another flex cable and taking out the stuffing tube and component tray with it on my Red Spartan, I decided to try running the Blue Spartan without the liner, and with the stock .150 cable.

It was like a completely different boat. Accelerated better, and seemed more stable as well with less torque roll, BUT, I can't confirm the stability and torque roll just yet because the water was too rough to go wide open throttle for more than a second or two. But it certainly seemed more stable in the rough water.

Still had a good coat of grease on the flex cable after two back to back runs, although the end nearest the collet was looking pretty much wiped clean but the lower 2/3 or 1/2 including the stub shaft had good grease on it.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/3046bf6b.jpg

I'm going to run without the liner in the stuffing tube for the next while to see how it pans out in the long run.

Temps on the batteries, motor, ESC, and stuffing tube were all between 22 - 25 *C (72 - 77 *F).

My boat is going to be shelved until I can get a new component tray, and some flex shafts from Jeff. Thank goodness for the venerable SV27, rock solid and ever reliable.

Kevin

[bdp1174]

Wow that is crazy.Did your stuffing tube still have the original teflon liner in it before it melted it or was it a newer liner?
Please keep us posted on your latest spartan adventures....:Sinking:

[Doug B]

How square is your 1/4" bore into the bushing on your strut? in the picture it doesnt look square, but I take lots of pictures and know that is very probably an illusion. I looked close at the drive line on mine, and decided to trim the brass tube only slightly longer than the original, and not insert it in the strut, and instead am relying on the grommet to seal out water and the associated vacuum effect.. Im just wondering if a little strut movement would be enough to add some resistance to the cable where it is sunk in the rear bushing..

Alternately, could it be the teflon liner spinning in the tube, heating to molten in places, and binding the cable? I wonder if it got hotter at the rear bracket because that area is more insulated, and the whole thing started from that?

Or I could be completely wrong.. just things that come to mind.. its interesting, I know you have all quality components in the drive line, did you notice any S bend like what WVGeo is talking about in his build thread?

[dag-nabit]

The stuffing tube and flex cable lined up pretty well. I also checked the "movement" at the clamp end with the tube high and low in the rear guide as per GeoVW72 (George) observation. I'm not saying George isn't on to something, but I didn't think the amount of movement at the clamp was significant enough to cause any real problems.

At this time, I'm leaning toward the idea that the tolerances are just too tight with the liner in the tube on this set up. Running 1600kv (stock) or 1700kv (my setup) on 6S is giving you 35 - 37K unloaded RPM, on a large hull, and a good size prop. I think there is enough torque twist on the .150 cable that it is scraping the inside of the liner, then it starts to abrade and/or rotate the liner causing heat.

In the case of this failure, if you look at the detail picture, and the picture showing the approx. areas the damage took place relative to the flex cable and tube. It would appear the cable started to scour the liner near the rear guide and then start to bind, then the shaft started to twist and bind even more. You can see the heat discoloration on the flex cable where it twisted. At this point the liner would have been spinning rapidly and would have been pinched tight against the inside of the tube causing enough heat to melt the plastic component tray.

The sequence of events is really just a guess, but that is my interpretation.

I'm going to try running liner free, at least until my new cables from Jeff arrive to see what happens. The problem may still manifest itself, at which point, back to the drawing board, but my initial observation trying no liner, was favorable.

Kevin

Note: I don't think the teflon liner is actually melting. Teflon has a melting point of around 600 *F and I don't think things are getting that hot. That said, the liner may be a teflon blend/composite of some type and could have a lower melting point.

[dag-nabit]

We had a great weekend at the lake. Had a chance to run most of our boats several times. The exception being my Red Spartan, I'm still waiting on parts after melting the component tray.


We got in 5-6 flawless runs with my daughters Blue Spartan. It was encouraging to do multiple runs with no issues. We were running with the liner removed from the stuffing tube and the drive line temps were consistent at around 22 - 23 *C (72-75 *F)

Then we "decided" it was time to prove out the question of which is stronger; plastic or fiberglass. My daughter made a wrong turn in front of my SV27 just as I was coming back on plane out of a corner, and I T-boned her Spartan.

The results:

Spartan 0 - SV27 1

Spartan suffered a good hole in the hull
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/3c42026e.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/8840bd8c.jpg

The SV27 suffered some very nasty paint transfer
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/3892acd8.jpg

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

Another quick video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZaTbSO8Rik

[Jeff Wohlt]

wOW...well I have to say it looks like fun but cables won't long with hopping at those rpms but what the hell...have fun, fun, fun. :0

[dag-nabit]

wOW...well I have to say it looks like fun but cables won't long with hopping at those rpms but what the hell...have fun, fun, fun. :0

yeah, but oddly enough, apart from the first cable that snapped less than two minutes into the maiden voyage, the (stock) cable in this Spartan has lasted the longest and is still going strong. (running without the liner in the stuffing tube)

Our cable problems seem to be related more to binding and overheating than running in rough water.

Kevin

[Jeff Wohlt]

I really wonder if these liners are PTFE/teflon or some type ofother mix. There are tons of different makes of that stuff. Only recently have we seen some of those china boats having these problems.

So you snapped the 150 I sent you but the stock is holding....had to be a liner issue or alignment.

[dag-nabit]

I really wonder if these liners are PTFE/teflon or some type ofother mix. There are tons of different makes of that stuff. Only recently have we seen some of those china boats having these problems.

So you snapped the 150 I sent you but the stock is holding....had to be a liner issue or alignment.


I agree.

I was running Octura liner so quality should not have been an issue.

I am leaning toward the theory that that the flex cable is twisting enough under load that it gets too tight in the stuffing tube with the liner installed. Removing the liner gives the flex cable some "room to breath".

Since running without the liners we have had zero problems with drive line heat or broken cables. That is not to say we won't, we have maybe a dozen runs in at most without the liners, but so far this is our best reliability. Time will tell.

As soon as I pulled the liners it was like we were running different boats, faster and more responsive on the throttle.

Keep in mind, we are pushing our boats a bit beyond "normal" running. T180 ESC and 3674 1700kv running 6S with a Prather 220 prop. That has to be putting some strain on the drive line. I'm really considering dropping back to a P215, the boat is too jittery at WOT anyway. A bit less speed would be fine for how we run, and that will help unload things a bit.

Kevin

[the5]

why do you guys drive the boats from in the water?

[dag-nabit]

why do you guys drive the boats from in the water?

Just works good for us.

Not sure if you can see it in the video or not, but there is a buoy about 300 - 350 feet offshore. the water doesn't get more than chest deep until you get out past the buoy.

There are docks and boat lifts along the shore so we need to get out past those for good visibility.

Sooner or later you have to go retrieve a boat, so we just wear chest waders and stand in the water just past the boat lifts, and if we flip we just walk out to retrieve the boat. Just easier than jumping up and down off the dock.

Kevin

[shctexas]

....and its fun!

[dag-nabit]

Yes It Is...:biggrin:

Kevin

[stadiumyamaha]

dag-nabit.
I havent read all your post so you may have allready done this but the number one thing I did to my Spartan was to ad a second set of the stock trim tabs. There is blind holes in the transom for mounting a pair. What it did was allow me to get higher speeds without the dead wobble. Super easy to do and the boat started to ride like a boat. JUst something Ive learned while fighting the spartan blues.
SY

[dag-nabit]

dag-nabit.
I havent read all your post so you may have allready done this but the number one thing I did to my Spartan was to ad a second set of the stock trim tabs. There is blind holes in the transom for mounting a pair. What it did was allow me to get higher speeds without the dead wobble. Super easy to do and the boat started to ride like a boat. JUst something Ive learned while fighting the spartan blues.
SY

I had ordered a couple sets for our Spartans, but only received one due to back order. I installed the extra set on my daughters Spartan when I replaced the hull following a crash. We haven't had the opportunity to run it yet so I'm not sure how much difference it will make. Some say it really helps, others say it makes no difference. If I like the results I'll make a point of ordering another set for mine.

Kevin

[stadiumyamaha]

They made a huge dif for me when at higher speeds.

[dag-nabit]

They made a huge dif for me when at higher speeds.

That's what I'm hoping for :thumbup1:
Kevin

[dag-nabit]

I agree.

I was running Octura liner so quality should not have been an issue.

I am leaning toward the theory that that the flex cable is twisting enough under load that it gets too tight in the stuffing tube with the liner installed. Removing the liner gives the flex cable some "room to breath".

Since running without the liners we have had zero problems with drive line heat or broken cables. That is not to say we won't, we have maybe a dozen runs in at most without the liners, but so far this is our best reliability. Time will tell.

As soon as I pulled the liners it was like we were running different boats, faster and more responsive on the throttle.

Keep in mind, we are pushing our boats a bit beyond "normal" running. T180 ESC and 3674 1700kv running 6S with a Prather 220 prop. That has to be putting some strain on the drive line. I'm really considering dropping back to a P215, the boat is too jittery at WOT anyway. A bit less speed would be fine for how we run, and that will help unload things a bit.

Kevin

Talk about famous last words. Next run made on the Blue Spartan and "poof' another drive cable snapped and took out the stuffing tube and melted the component tray again. The component tray isn't melted nearly as bad this time, just enough to fuse the tubing clamp and tray together.

I'm convinced this was a failure of the OEM stock cable due to stress, not binding. I was checking temps regularly and never saw anything over 22-23 *C (approx. 75 #F) on the stuffing tube prior to the failure.

You can see in the photo the cable unraveled almost the entire length, and the stuffing tube bulged and overheated where the cable failed and parted.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/ccd8e345.jpg

And a couple close ups of the worst damaged area.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/526bf969.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/763db160.jpg

I just received my .187 cables from Jeff, and the parts I've been waiting on to fix my Red Spartan and get it back in action, so I will up fit both boats with the heavier cable and see what results we get.

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

Well I finally got the parts I needed to repair my Red Spartan, and fortunately I had ordered extras so I also had the required parts for repairing the Blue Spartan as well. I also received the .187 flex cables I had on order from Jeff. So I spent the past couple afternoons putzing around in the shop getting the Spart's ready for action again.

The repairs involved completely removing all components and replacing the melted trays in both boats, so, since I had everything stripped down I decided I might as well change things up a bit.

Motors: The most noticeable change is the absence of the orange Tacon 3674 1700kv motor swapped out for a shiny red Leopard motor and water jacket. I implanted a 4082 1500kv in the Blue Spartan, and decided to go with a 4074 2000kv motor in the Red Spartan.

I should note that there were no problems with, nor any reason really, to swap out the Tacons. They were running well and had performed impressively over the past several weeks, but foolishness and boredom are persuasive mistresses, so I decided it would be fun to experiment a bit.

Leopard 4074 2000kv Installed in the Red Spartan. Still running the T180 ESC with timing set at 0* advance.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/58a851f6.jpg

The decision to install the 4082 1500 was pretty straight forward. This is a combination that has been run successfully by many others, and considering all the drive line issues I have been having, dropping the kv a bit might be a step in the right direction.

Installing the 4074 2000kv was a decision I wavered on several times before deciding to take the plunge, I have, after all, often recommended against going to high kv motors on this boat because of all the drive line problems that may result. It is a bit counter intuitive to increase the kv rating on the motor when you are twisting up drive cables and overheating stuffing tubes to the point you are melting component trays. But I want to experiment a bit with running lower kv and larger props on one boat, and higher kv and smaller props on the other boat to see what effect, if any, it has on the drive line, torque roll, and chine walking.

I am still trying to target a 50'ish MPH Spartan with stable, reliable, running, so going up in kv is not intended to push the speed any higher, and if Traxxas figures they can run 1800kv, why not 2000kv, after all Traxxas has made so many other well thought out and successful decisions with this boat, what could possibly go wrong??
:sarcasm1: (extreme).

I stayed with a Prather 220 on the Blue Spartan with the 4082 1500kv, and have dropped back to a Prather 215 on the Red Spartan with the 4074 2000kv motor. I have some smaller three blade props that I will experiment with as well on the Red Spartan, and some larger props I can try on the Blue Spartan if needed to stay in the high 40's low 50's range for speed.

I also installed the extra set of trim tabs on both boats to try for myself to see if they will assist with high speed stability (chine walking). The left tab needed a bit of a notch filed in to fit around the water pickup on my trim tab adjuster, but that was an easy fix.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/b13eaba3.jpg

The other modifications were installing the collet and .187 flex cable (no liner in the stuffing tube, cable won't fit with it anyway), and changed out the bullet connectors between the ESC and motor to Castle 6.5mm.

RECAP
Both Boats: New component tray, .187 collet and flex cable, 6.5mm bullet connectors between ESC and Motor, extra trim tabs.
Blue Spartan: Leopard 4082 1500kv motor, Prather 220 prop.
Red Spartan: Leopard 4074 2000kv motor, Prather 215 prop.

Hope to run them next weekend.

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

Well the decision to run the Leopard 4074 2000kv motor proved to be a bad one.

I got in 4-5 good runs with it using a .187 flex drive from Jeff and a Prather 215 prop. It was running pretty nice on this set up, fast, reasonably stable and less torque roll with the smaller prop.

But, on the next outting I fried the Turnigy 180 amp ESC.

Not certain what happened, the capacitors don't appear swollen, but it did melt 3 of the 5 wires off the ESC.

I didn't take a close up picture of the ESC but it melted down pretty good. There is what appears to be melted plastic oozing out between the circuit board and case, and there was plenty of smoke. The hull was not badly damaged, but as an added bonus it did take a pair of lipo batteries with it when it torched.

The Eagle Tree graph shows amp spikes in the 180 range, but spikes in the 170-180 range were not uncommon with the Tacon 3674 1700kv either. What I can't be certain of is if the Eagle Tree was maxed out, it is only rated for 150 amps, so the spikes may in fact have been higher than recorded.

The Eagle Tree also shows a voltage spike to 27v about 30-40 seconds before everything come to a halt. I can't help but wonder if this was caused by a capacitor popping.

Black - Volts
Red - Amps
Green - GPS
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Eagle%20Tree%20Graphs/0e4dddf0.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/695e10e6.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/d86a9f08.jpg

I have to wonder how the new Castle setup is going to hold up with the 1800kv motor on 6s. We don't know the AMP rating on the ESC yet, but it is highly unlikely it is anywhere close to 180AMP. I know the Castle components might be better quality and more efficient than the Leopard/Turnigy combination, but I have to say I agree with George (GeoVW72) that Spartan owners with the new Castle components should be cautious propping up very much from stock.

I had the components necessary to rebuild my boat on hand, but opted to install a Leopard 4082 1500kv motor instead of staying with the 2000kv and trying smaller props. (Both Spartans on same setup now)

The boat cleaned up not too bad but does have some lingering discoloration and smell to it. It is running good on the 4082 1500 with an Octura X642 prop, but the torque roll is more noticeable again with the larger prop.

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

Headed out to the lake yesterday hoping to get a few runs in with the Spartans. It was breezy, and the lake was pretty rough but we decided to give it a go anyway since we haven't had an opportunity run them for a few weeks.

Both are now setup with T180 ESC's and Leopard 4082 1500kv motors. I'm running an x642 prop and my daughter is running an S220 prop.

My daughter got in one good run, but I popped another ESC after about a minute of running. This ESC has only a couple runs on it with the current setup. There was no smoke, no heat, no popped caps, it just up and died. I'm convinced it was a manufacturing defect, not the setup that caused the failure.

We decided it was too rough to continue running, so shut it down after one run.

I'm down to my last T180 ESC. I was planning on setting up a separate component tray with a CC1515 motor and T180 ESC to run on 5S with a wire drive, but now I need the ESC for this tray. I think I'll change it up to try the 5S setup, hopefully all my stuff will be here in time to get some good runs in before the cold weather arrives.

I'm sending both ESC's back to Hobby King to see if they will consider warranty replacement.

Kevin

[wilsta67]

MAJOR MELT DOWN

Headed out to the lake Monday evening and arrived in time to charge up a few sets of batteries and make a couple runs before the sun set. The lake was nice and calm so I was looking forward to some WOT run time.

First run went pretty well, managed to record my best speed to date of 79.1 kph (49 mph) but death wobble was very much present at high speeds, I'm certain it is what is preventing me from breaking the 50 mph mark.

The boat handled, IMO, exactly the same without the turn fins installed as it did before I removed them, so I'm convinced they are really only cosmetic on this hull. I'm not suggesting pulling them off for no reason, but if you damage one, or don't like the look of them, try removing them to determine for yourself if you think they do anything on this hull.

The temps were a bit higher than normal after the run at 35 - 39 *C (95-102 *F) on Batteries, Motor, and ESC. Not problematic, but because they were higher than normal I double checked everything, including the stuffing tube, and everything seemed pretty consistent. I chalked the rise in temps to lots of WOT running.

I popped in a fresh set of batteries, and less than two minutes into the run the boat made a funny noise and stopped dead.

When I opened the hatch the smoke rolled out and I'm thinking I've blown the motor or ESC, but it smelled like melted plastic, not electronics.

Turned out I twisted up another flex cable (third one between two boats) and seriously overheated the stuffing tube (warped it)

Melted Stuffing Tube Clamp: The glob of spun plastic looks fairly solid in the picture but it is spun plastic strands, like cotton candy.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/91558cc5.jpg

The clamp was fused together with the tray, had a tough time getting them apart. Also fused right onto the stuffing tube.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/173062aa.jpg

The Stuffing Tube Guide is Also Melted
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/54a139dd.jpg

Details on Damage to the Stuffing Tube and Flex
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/68140997.jpg

This Gives an Idea of the Area Where the Damage Occurred
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/5939bc48.jpg


I believe the binding was starting on the first run, causing the temps to increase a bit, then failed during the second run.

I don't see much in the Eagle Tree Data to suggest a problem, amp draw was pretty normal compared to previous runs, although my battery voltage did sag very quickly toward the end of the run.

This does confirm my 79 kph top speed. GPS Green - Amps Red - Voltage Blue

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Eagle%20Tree%20Graphs/ac093a90.jpg

Kevin


wow that's impressive melting lol . that would actually make a nice upgrade for this boat an aluminium tray!!

[dag-nabit]

wow that's impressive melting lol . that would actually make a nice upgrade for this boat an aluminium tray!!

Agreed, I really like the concept of the component trays, one of the few things I think Traxxas got right on the Spartan, but a nice upgraded aluminum tray might be a nice touch.

Kevin

[Rumdog]

5s on a CC/Neu 1515 1y. Say goodbye to your last T-180. Why push it? Buy the correct motor. If you want to run 5s, run 1500-1800kv motor. 4s, 1800-2200kv motor. 6s, 1200-1600kv motor.
You are just setting yourself up for another meltdown. You need to understand that a 1515 is not a big enough motor for this hull. A 1520 or 1521 should be the minimum, and the proper kv to run 6s.

[dag-nabit]

5s on a CC/Neu 1515 1y. Say goodbye to your last T-180. Why push it? Buy the correct motor. If you want to run 5s, run 1500-1800kv motor. 4s, 1800-2200kv motor. 6s, 1200-1600kv motor.
You are just setting yourself up for another meltdown. You need to understand that a 1515 is not a big enough motor for this hull. A 1520 or 1521 should be the minimum, and the proper kv to run 6s.

You may well be right Rumdog, but I will likely still give it a try just for $hits & giggles. The 2200 kv on 5S will give me similar rpms to the 3674 1700kv I was successfully running on 6S, and the lower voltage on 5S will hopefully take enough load off the T180 that it will hold up. I realize amp draw will still be high, but until it is tried, won't know for certain.

I will probably make a few runs on 4S and monitor amp draw on the eagle tree before trying to run 5S.

I also have a CC1717 motor, which has a nice kv rating and plenty of torque, but I feel that motor is too heavy to run on the plastic motor mounts without some sort of tail ring support.

Kevin

[Snowride]

Well I sure am glad you are the one doing all the testing and showing me what I should not do. :wink: I may sound like a broken record but mine has just been perfect in all respects except for going through plastic props which I understand is normal. I want to thank you for showing me what to do in the beginning of all this you definately got it right. Too bad you just did not know when to stop tinkering. :smile:

[dag-nabit]

Well I sure am glad you are the one doing all the testing and showing me what I should not do. :wink: I may sound like a broken record but mine has just been perfect in all respects except for going through plastic props which I understand is normal. I want to thank you for showing me what to do in the beginning of all this you definately got it right. Too bad you just did not know when to stop tinkering. :smile:

Some of us are just slow learners....:laugh::doh:

My setup was running just fine with the tacon 3674 1700 and T180, apart from drive cables piling up. But.... every time I have to tear the tray apart I can't resist a look in the tickle trunk, nor the temptation to try something different just for the heck of it.

I know some of it is bound to fail, but what the heck, I enjoy putzing around and if others can use my experience to help them decide how they want to proceed, then, you know, that's ok too.

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

I was at the lake yesterday doing some chores and hoping the wind would die down enough to get in a couple runs with the Spartan. It finally dropped off late in the afternoon but the water hadn't really settled down completely when I hit the water.

This is running my Red Spartan with CC1515 2200kv motor, T180 ESC, .078 wire drive, and P215 prop on 4S.

1st Run
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Eagle%20Tree%20Graphs/5db859a6.jpg

2nd Run
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Eagle%20Tree%20Graphs/5675dbe6.jpg

The wind picked up again by the time I downloaded my Eagle Tree data and loaded a fresh set of batteries so both runs were in pretty rough conditions, I wasn't able to get any long WOT runs on either run and my best top speed on this setup, and in these water conditions, was 52 kph (32 mph).

Amp draws were reasonable with only one spike in the 160 amp range but for the most part peaking out in the 100-125 amp range and averaging 25-35 amp draw. Based on this data I'm not too concerned about trying this setup on 5S, but will be watching the data closely when I try it.

My first run (approx. 10min) I ran to LVC (set at 3.0) and it pulled the batteries down a bit too much (7.4v and 18% capacity for residual) on the second run I timed it for a 6 minute run and had 7.8v and 57% capacity left in the batteries.

Looking at the eagle tree data it looks like about 8 minutes run time would be reasonable on this setup.

My 5S batteries are in transit, so should have them by the time I'm ready for another outing. I hope to run the 4S setup on some calm waters first just to confirm amp draws on WOT.

Only two runs on the wire drive but happy with the performance so far and lots of grease residual on the both the wire and the stub shaft after 2 back to back runs.

Kevin

[Boss777]

hear is what i got where can i get this fix? i mean where can i get parts for it ?
58962

[Rumdog]

Ose

[sanyijr]

Kevin,

I think this is one of my favoite threads yet. BUT, i don't think you got the memo..... It might have been on the back of the TPS Report. "Your Flex cables, ESCs , hulls and Batteries are NOT candy. So don't go through them like it's Holloween :lol: :bounce:

Man, as long as this doesn't cause you financial strain or increased blood pressure (it would for me!), enjoy. It really sounds like you guys are having a great time.

But I too agree it might serve you better and give you some more runs to drop down a cell or motor KV. Love-it though. And the Pics and Vids!!!!

[dag-nabit]

Thanks for the compliment sanyijr.

I certainly don't have unlimited funds, but I'm fortunate to be at that point in life where I do have some disposable income to "play" with.

Some guys are out there doing the same thing to cars. Tweaking them, sometimes pushing them beyond their limits, and compared to the cost of doing that, our hobby is a drop in the bucket.

I'm having fun, and I post here so others can learn and/or benefit from my experiences.

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

Update:

I sent two T180 ESC's back to HK for warranty consideration.

I have received a warranty credit for one of them. The other is still being evaluated.

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

Got a couple more runs in this weekend with the CC1515 / wire drive setup on 4S. The weeds are matured now and tall enough that I was having some problems with weeds hanging up on the rudder, so I had to stop often and clear them off. The weeds really affect turning and cause enough drag to slow the boat considerably.

Despite the weeds still had fun running.

My 5S batteries showed up while I was typing up this post. Debatable whether or not I'll get a chance to run them before the cold weather hits. I'm have to cover holiday relief at work and won't be out to the lake for about 3 weeks. I'm hoping for a nice long autumn season.

First Run:
Glass smooth water, batteries about 1" forward of center.
Really nice run, lots of WOT, boat very stable and able to make high speed turns without fear of flipping.
Max Speed: 53.5 kph (33 mph)
Max Amps: 144.5
Average Amps: 79.3
Motor Temp 25 *C (77 *F)
ESC Temp 25*C (77 *F)
Battery temps 27-30 *C (80-86 *F)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Eagle%20Tree%20Graphs/8cdced77.jpg

Second Run:
Bit of chop on the water, batteries approx. 1" ahead of full rear position.
Another real good run, boat was faster, still good stability but had to be a bit more careful of cornering. More on / off throttle with shorter WOT runs.
Max Speed 58 kph (36 mph)
Max Amps 116.5
Avg Amps 35.8
Motor Temp 25 *C (77 *F)
ESC Temp 25*C (77 *F)
Battery temps 25-27 *C (77-80 *F)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Eagle%20Tree%20Graphs/994d7683.jpg

The amp draw is understandably much lower if the hull is not running wet. When I run the 5S setup I will be positioning the batteries toward the rear of the boat to help keep amp draw as low as possible. The 5S batteries are considerably larger and heavier than the 3S batteries, so it will take some experimentation to find the best positioning.

Kevin

PS the wire drive performed flawlessly again.

[dag-nabit]

Had an opportunity to run my 5S setup today. The water was really rough (probably too rough to be running) but I wanted to try the 5S setup so I took it for a run anyway.

Got in a good run, but no chance for WOT, so no idea what kind of top speed to expect yet. I had a few minor flips, nothing serious though.

Sorry no video, I was running solo.

Recap of the current setup: Castle CC1515 2200kv motor, Turnigy T180 ESC, Jeff Wohlt .078 wire drive, Prather 215 prop, Turnigy Nano Tech 5000mah 5S 45-90C batteries wired parallel.

Got in about 11 minutes of run time with 50% capacity remaining in the batteries. I stopped running before LVC because of the water conditions.

Max Speed 51 kph (31.5 mph)
Max Amps 180 (only one spike that high)
Avg Amps 25.5 (running pretty easy due to water conditions)
ESC Temp 23 *C (73 *F)
Motor Temp 22 *C (71.5 *F)
Battery Temps 20 *C (70 *F)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Eagle%20Tree%20Graphs/ddbc40d0.jpg

Kevin

[Chrisg81983]

Thanks for all the good info

[Chrisg81983]

i have a blue spartan but i had a hard blowover and i split the hull. for some odd reason i bought a new red one the new hull was completely different they both have castle systems right out of the box but the new red one had a deck that is flat not sloping down and the v at the stern is 1.25 inches deeper. they also made the hatch less prone to blowing off by making the toungh that slides into the hull longer. the new red hull is much more stable. here are some pics

[dag-nabit]

Got a chance to get in one short run with the 5S setup a couple days ago.

Not my best run, I was pushed for time and was being a bit too rammy on the new setup with it not being dialed in yet.

Lake was reasonably calm, for our lake, so I had hoped to get in some good WOT runs to see what this 5S setup would do for top end speed. Got in a couple short bursts, but lake was just rough enough to make the boat skip, and then chine walk like crazy. I definitely need to work on fine tuning my setup.

Flipped it a couple times, spun it out a few times, and ended a pretty short run by popping the hatch and bouying the boat (even with hatch taped).

After I finished running, I noticed I also managed to separate the hull a bit on the last plunge.

Eagle Tree confirms 75.6 KPH (47 MPH) top speed and 166 amps max amp draw, so it looks like this CC1515 2200kv motor and P215 prop might be an OK setup running 5S in the Spartan.

I only ended up with 4.5 - 5 minutes actual run time between all the flips and stopping to reposition the batteries. Batteries were showing 80% capoacity left when I put them on for a storage charge.

The first big gap is when I changed battery position, the second gap is when I flipped it first time.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Eagle%20Tree%20Graphs/2abd6a9f.jpg

Hull separating
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/f7b0be49.jpg

And.... a cheesy little video of the Spartan running 5S

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_Uhcv7u5vc

[Chrisg81983]

I split my first spartan it was a real pain trying to get something tho bond really well tho the plastic let me know what u use

[martin]

Try Devcon Plastic Weld, Its made specifically for plastics inc ABS. Its a 2 part glue that you mix together, Very strong indeed & really sticks well to plastic. Available from hobby stores. Martin.

[Chrisg81983]

Ok I I got some of that I was just wondering if that is the best thing for plastics thanks

[martin]

You have to be very carefull bonding ABS plastics as some adhesives bond by melting the plastic together & you can ruin some things with this. The Devcon dosnt have such an effect on ABS, This stuff really does stick very well on plastics as that is what its designed for. Martin.

[dag-nabit]

Had some beautiful fall weather at the lake yesterday, and a rare opportunity to run the boats on very calm water.

This was the last run of the season and I got in two back to back runs on the 5S parallel setup running the T180 and CC1515 2200kv motor and P215 prop. I think I can say, with reasonable confidence, that this is a solid setup, and the Eagle Tree data I have collected to date supports this.

I placed the batteries a bit further ahead on both these runs to help stabilize the boat (just a bit rearward of the center position). the boat ran very stable with only a bit of chine walk if I crossed my wake or other disturbance in the water. Unfortunately running wetter on the hull sacrificed some speed and I only maxed at 70 kph (approx 43.5 mph).

ESC and motor temps were nice and cool @ 20 *C (68 F) for ESC and 15 *C (59 F) for the motor. The batteries were hotter at 40 *C (104 F). I also noticed the wires between the ESC and Motor were running pretty warm at about 46 *C (115 F).

No flips or ditching for two good solid runs but the hull had separated again where I had repaired it. The boat stayed dry inside despite the separation.

I ran both batteries on the Eagle Tree without clearing the buffer between runs, I only got about 8 minutes to LVC on the first set of batteries, and then a wire broke off the Eagle Tree about 3-4 minutes into the second run. The Eagle Tree graph below shows approx. 11 minutes run time from both batteries.

I had the LVC set at 3.2v but I'm going to bump it up 3.4V for this setup. My batteries were pulled down a bit more than I want to see with only 12-15% residual capacity remaining. This is going to further shorten run times, which is a bit disappointing with the parallel setup, but this setup is power hungry.

Will have to try running the 1500kv setup on 5S parallel next season to see what the run times are like.

This will be the last run of the season for us. I brought all our boats home with me to "winterize" them for storage and do up any minor repairs required.

EAGLE TREE
Top Speed 70 kph
Max Amps 146
Avg Amps 83
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Eagle%20Tree%20Graphs/04913bf0.jpg

Kevin