Hot stuffing tube, Normal?

[Shaun78]

Is it normal for it to get hot? teflon liner doesnt seem to be spinning/binding? running castle 1520 with Seaking 180 on 6S. Runs ok with M445 but 645 seems to be binding (heavy Rt side lean and get punch her)

[dag-nabit]

No, not normal.

JPriami experienced the same problem when running large props.

The unconfirmed theory is: the torque from the large prop is causing the flex shaft to "corkscrew" in the stuffing tube causing excess surface contact and friction.

Back off to the smaller prop, or perhaps consider trying one of Jeff's .187 flex cables to see if that helps.

Kevin

[GeoVW72]

Agreed, not normal, but it does happen

That theory sounds good, but it happens even in stock configurations.
What I have found is that the teflon liner spins excessively in the brass tubing, I'm guessing that's because of how smooth the interior bore of the tube is, perhaps it's hydroformed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroforming)?
Anyway, in recent running I found teflon flakes (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/QsvKZDV6eOY17LZZykFLHjGovyvwcdLfE64xQwsf8WE?feat=d irectlink) in between the liner and tube, an obvious sign of wear, after the boat had some of the same issues.

I have found that greasing the liner in the tube will "mask" the issue, but not cure it.

[Shaun78]

I did grease the liner but it still did it, Ill try that again tho

[Snowride]

As mentioned jpirami had the very same issue when running larger prop/motor. This is why I elected to stay close to stock motor size and run a stock prop. He was looking to have some custom flex shafts made up but never heard back on this.

[dag-nabit]

As mentioned jpirami had the very same issue when running larger prop/motor. This is why I elected to stay close to stock motor size and run a stock prop. He was looking to have some custom flex shafts made up but never heard back on this.

JPriami did make up a piano wire drive for his, but sold the Spartan after a few runs on the new drive. I believe he was pleased with the performance of the piano wire drive.

Jeff Wohlt offers aftermarket flex drives in .150 and .187 diameter flex cable. And will also do up piano wire drives, I do believe.
http://www.rcraceboat.com/

The .187 can be run without the Teflon liner, but you do need to replace the collet to accommodate the larger flex shaft.

Kevin

[GeoVW72]

I did grease the liner but it still did it, Ill try that again tho

Hmmm...
Are you running the stock liner or did you get some new teflon?
I found that the old stock liner was rather soft.
They have made a rolling change to some stiffer stuff like octura (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-oc150t-24).
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_nneVYSYZjrY/TWxh5QeU4kI/AAAAAAAAAJU/WB4X0DJkqUY/s400/IMG_20110228_134102.jpg
old stuff on the left, new octura on the right

Though Jeff did think that we were already pushing .150 a little hard, and the traxxas cables don't seem to be the best IMHO.

:Peace_Sign:

[Snowride]

Is that octura stuffing tube a direct replacement for the stock spartan one?

[GeoVW72]

Is that octura stuffing tube a direct replacement for the stock spartan one?

Yep, direct replacement, just cut to length.
It's what traxxas has moved to.

[Snowride]

Thanks, will order some.

[martin]

If you let the teflon liner coming out from the stuffing tube come out 4-5mm past the stuffing tube on the motor end. You then slide a piece of appropriate silicon tube over the stuffing tube & over the liner as you do when doing this same mod to stop water coming up the tube. This piece of silicon tube also stops the liner from going round in the stuffing tube where it grips onto the tube & liner. Martin.

[Brushless55]

Hmmm...
Are you running the stock liner or did you get some new teflon?
I found that the old stock liner was rather soft.
They have made a rolling change to some stiffer stuff like octura (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-oc150t-24).
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_nneVYSYZjrY/TWxh5QeU4kI/AAAAAAAAAJU/WB4X0DJkqUY/s400/IMG_20110228_134102.jpg
old stuff on the left, new octura on the right

Though Jeff did think that we were already pushing .150 a little hard, and the traxxas cables don't seem to be the best IMHO.

:Peace_Sign:

nice bro, and I agree a larger prop wont cause this issue, it's called traxxass :glare:

[Snowride]

Well I smoked the tube/drive wire pretty bad yesterday. I did not bother removing the drive wire and lubing it as I had only 1 run ( 8 mins) since it was last lubed. Towards the end of this run it started making noise like it was cavitating so I brought it in and found some seaweed so I thought this was the issue and returned it to the water. Punched it and it seemed to go better but was still a little noisy and regardless, I hit the low voltage cutoff after about 30 seconds. Brought it in and opened the hatch to disconnect the batteries and there was smell and smoke. :doh:

Got home took it apart to view the damage. Holy crap, wire was twisted, a few small pieces of liner was all that was left, got so hot it melted part of the motor tray and servo bottom.

Big question is. Did I do myself in by not lubricating after every run or are the original components just crap? By upgrading the parts should this be reliable? I already have the octura liner from OSE on order and a couple of new reinforced drive wires mentioned above on this thread. Good thing about the motor tray is they are only $4.95 so I ordered 3 just in case. :cursing:

http://i54.tinypic.com/29w239w.jpg

[Brushless55]

holly crud!
possible issues was to much play in the shaft?

[dag-nabit]

Wow!

That drive line really gnarled up on you, and on the stock prop too.

As for greasing frequency, on most boats you don't have to grease the flex after every run, but early reports on the Spartan were that the grease seemed to wash off the shaft very quickly.

Because of that some of us have installed an extra "floater" grommet between the strut and transom to help seal the shaft and retain the lube. A piece of "larger" diameter silicone tubing or similar could also be used.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=23741&highlight=extra+grommet

That said, IMO with a teflon liner installed that amount of damage should not have taken place after two runs on a lubed flex cable. So I'm thinking there were other factors at play, and quality may well be one of them.

Kevin

[Brushless55]

biggest issue was traxxass was using oil to lube the shafts
but greasing these every two runs or so should be plenty

[Snowride]

The sad part is the tacon 1700 motor is about the same as the stock in terms of power and this is the stock prop. No signs of any hit by the prop as I am sure it would ding easily being plastic. Good thing is both the motor and esc are just warm to the touch after a hard run, time after time. Now if I can get this drive thing under control I should be able to enjoy myself.

[Brushless55]

The sad part is the tacon 1700 motor is about the same as the stock in terms of power and this is the stock prop. No signs of any hit by the prop as I am sure it would ding easily being plastic. Good thing is both the motor and esc are just warm to the touch after a hard run, time after time. Now if I can get this drive thing under control I should be able to enjoy myself.

not even close my friend
as I saw someones comments on traxxass the Tacon motor will outrun the stock POS any day of the week
I think the stock motor can only run maybe 1000watts cont without over heating were as the Tacon can run 1500-2000watts with no issues (big difference)
you can prop this motor up without issues unlike the POS stocker
you are looking at rpms that are close but the the efficency of this motor is so much better:banana:

[dag-nabit]

not even close my friend
as I saw someones comments on traxxass the Tacon motor will outrun the stock POS any day of the week
I think the stock motor can only run maybe 1000watts cont without over heating were as the Tacon can run 1500-2000watts with no issues (big difference)
you can prop this motor up without issues unlike the POS stocker
you are looking at rpms that are close but the the efficency of this motor is so much better:banana:

:iagree: 100%

Kevin

[GeoVW72]

WOW!

Never seen one go that bad.
I would not think that just no lubrication would cause that, the seaweed may have been most of the issue.
what was the time frame between the two runs?
a little rust may have formed if it was over a day, it doesn't matter how long it runs, if you don't plan on running it for a day you should clean and re lube the shaft.

All the runs I do are without any driveshaft lubrication between them, however I do tear down the whole boat at the end of the session and clean everything.

Now that you have everything else you also need to pick up some 1/4" KS tubing (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-ks-brass-tb&cat=70) :wink:

:Peace_Sign:

[spartanonfire]

Looking at the prop shaft in the picture there seems to be significant scoring on it. Could be due to lack of lubrication, or possibly some debris got in there like some sand or dirt. The way the cable was twisted it sure looks like the issue was in the strut assembly. Since there was binding and friction in the strut while the motor was trying to force the cable to continue spinning, the cable just started warping and putting extreme pressure on the teflon liner. I'm thinking a floating bushing could have helped prevent this. I'd be careful about just replacing the cable assembly. With that much damage on the prop shaft there's a good chance the bushings have been damaged in the strut assembly. You might want to replace that while your at it, otherwise you could quickly eat through your new drive cable.




Well I smoked the tube/drive wire pretty bad yesterday. I did not bother removing the drive wire and lubing it as I had only 1 run ( 8 mins) since it was last lubed. Towards the end of this run it started making noise like it was cavitating so I brought it in and found some seaweed so I thought this was the issue and returned it to the water. Punched it and it seemed to go better but was still a little noisy and regardless, I hit the low voltage cutoff after about 30 seconds. Brought it in and opened the hatch to disconnect the batteries and there was smell and smoke. :doh:

Got home took it apart to view the damage. Holy crap, wire was twisted, a few small pieces of liner was all that was left, got so hot it melted part of the motor tray and servo bottom.

Big question is. Did I do myself in by not lubricating after every run or are the original components just crap? By upgrading the parts should this be reliable? I already have the octura liner from OSE on order and a couple of new reinforced drive wires mentioned above on this thread. Good thing about the motor tray is they are only $4.95 so I ordered 3 just in case. :cursing:

http://i54.tinypic.com/29w239w.jpg

[Brushless55]

WOW!

Never seen one go that bad.
I would not think that just no lubrication would cause that, the seaweed may have been most of the issue.
what was the time frame between the two runs?
a little rust may have formed if it was over a day, it doesn't matter how long it runs, if you don't plan on running it for a day you should clean and re lube the shaft.

All the runs I do are without any driveshaft lubrication between them, however I do tear down the whole boat at the end of the session and clean everything.

Now that you have everything else you also need to pick up some 1/4" KS tubing (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-ks-brass-tb&cat=70) :wink:

:Peace_Sign:

that could have been what started the problem? :huh:

[Snowride]

Looking at the prop shaft in the picture there seems to be significant scoring on it.

That is not scoring, maybe just residual grease. I just inspected it very closely and there is no scoring. A very slight discoloration towards the front but no marks to be seen or felt.


I would not think that just no lubrication would cause that, the seaweed may have been most of the issue.

Seriously doubt it as there was only a long 6" blade of grass hanging from the rudder which I thought to be causing the sound of cavitation. As found out later, it was the mangled drive wire causing the noise.


what was the time frame between the two runs?
a little rust may have formed if it was over a day, it doesn't matter how long it runs, if you don't plan on running it for a day you should clean and re lube the shaft.

Time frame was a couple of days. Boat is only run n fresh water. There are absolutely no traces of rust or foreign debris anywhere on the wire or in the tube and there should not be as I lubricate it every few runs with the grim racer grease sold here at OSE. I remove the drive wire and smear a thin coat over the entire length and then re-insert it.


not even close my friend
as I saw someones comments on traxxass the Tacon motor will outrun the stock POS any day of the week
I think the stock motor can only run maybe 1000watts cont without over heating were as the Tacon can run 1500-2000watts with no issues (big difference)
you can prop this motor up without issues unlike the POS stocker
you are looking at rpms that are close but the the efficency of this motor is so much better

Thanks for the info. When I was asking around to make this boat as reliable as possible I was pointed to the Tacon 1700 which was recommended for using the stock prop and was told power wise it wold have a slight advantage. I was only going from what I was told. Remember, I am as green as they get but learning fast. :beerchug:

[Brushless55]

Thanks for the info. When I was asking around to make this boat as reliable as possible I was pointed to the Tacon 1700 which was recommended for using the stock prop and was told power wise it wold have a slight advantage. I was only going from what I was told. Remember, I am as green as they get but learning fast. :beerchug:

Some over at traxxass give lots of miss info and don't know what they are talking about :glare:
but keep it going with this one man :thumbup1: