Turnigy 180 cooling upgrade

[properchopper]

I've seen several variations on this method. Some just use the center void. Here's a simple way to use the entire plate. IIRC I've seen something pretty close to this way of doing it. Here's how I did it :

Drilled through the side passages into the center void. (Relieved the side-fin with a dremel to allow clearance for drill bit)

Tapped the outside wall of the side-passage tube with a 6-32 tap & blocked off with set screws sealed with JB

Made block-off plates for the ends of the center passage with some scrap aluminum & carefully JB'd to attach & seal

Water enters the first tube-passage, enters the center void, does its heat exchange, exits into the other tube-passage & out the hull exit.

I'll pressure test as soon as the JB cures. :smile:

[chummer]

That's cool Tony. I never liked how the water cooling was located on the T180.

Another PIA is the wiring layout. Has anybody ever attempted to re-solder the wires so that they are laying down flat. Not sure if I want to try this myself. My soldering skills are not that great but it should would make layout alot easier. I seem to have trouble finding a happy spot for that ESC.

[properchopper]

That's cool Tony. I never liked how the water cooling was located on the T180.

Another PIA is the wiring layout. Has anybody ever attempted to re-solder the wires so that they are laying down flat. Not sure if I want to try this myself. My soldering skills are not that great but it should would make layout alot easier. I seem to have trouble finding a happy spot for that ESC.

I totally agree. Seems like the T-180 wasn't laid out by a boat guy. The cooling design doesn't appear to take full advantage of the plate, and the cooling lines at 90 degrees to the wires are a PIA. An easy mod to change that is pictured; with the mod it just makes into the box on my tunnel-should work for riggers as well.

I have a bonkered 180 with one motor wire desoldered off the board and even though I'm getting pretty good at soldering I haven't found my efforts to re-solder it getting the job done.

[Alexgar]

Could you solder it flat I need an esc for my apparition but this won't fit unless I can lay the wires down

[6sHyper]

Could you solder it flat I need an esc for my apparition but this won't fit unless I can lay the wires down

They will fit in the apparition with no modification, just hold the motor wires sideways and tuck it under the lip, you will have to remove part of the wooden esc tray or whatever behind the motor.

[ron1950]

how did the pressure test go?

[jwt]

I totally agree. Seems like the T-180 wasn't laid out by a boat guy. The cooling design doesn't appear to take full advantage of the plate, and the cooling lines at 90 degrees to the wires are a PIA. An easy mod to change that is pictured; with the mod it just makes into the box on my tunnel-should work for riggers as well.

I have a bonkered 180 with one motor wire desoldered off the board and even though I'm getting pretty good at soldering I haven't found my efforts to re-solder it getting the job done.

Tony

i agree with you, that the T180 does not work well with a boat layout,
so i took a slightly track than you, i just cut & tapped the brass stubs with 3mm metric, then screwed a plate each end, and used 90deg outlets on the top, i also drilled 2- 3 dia holes each end so water fills the 3 sections inside, seems to work good..:thumbup1:

jwt

[Jeff Wohlt]

What is the chance of just using a good old alum type all the rest use? Seem it would be easy and better. Does the heat sink just pull off? Was considering do two for mine but using a alum block...would make it smaller as well.

[properchopper]

Tony

i agree with you, that the T180 does not work well with a boat layout,
so i took a slightly track than you, i just cut & tapped the brass stubs with 3mm metric, then screwed a plate each end, and used 90deg outlets on the top, i also drilled 2- 3 dia holes each end so water fills the 3 sections inside, seems to work good..:thumbup1:

jwt

Nicely done ! Your design makes the finished job even narower than mine, should really help shoehorning into tunnels and riggers. May have to give your method a try with a spare top plate sitting on my bench :thumbup1:

I have noticed that on late model T-180's that the brass inlet/outlets show that some sealant is being used which makes extracting them intact a little more challanging - I may try some heat to see if I can just unscrew them rather than cutting them off and re-tapping.

[properchopper]

What is the chance of just using a good old alum type all the rest use? Seem it would be easy and better. Does the heat sink just pull off? Was considering do two for mine but using a alum block...would make it smaller as well.

The cooling plate comes off with the four case screws.

Here's another configuration I may try - using the top-plate mod & encasing the heat sink block. Basically, though, if one's setup is correct, major cooling won't be all that necessary but won't hurt either.

[ron1950]

be carefull soon you will be in buisness revamping t180's for evenyone lol

[rearwheelin]

Tony I was thinking of doing a closed loop / mineral oil bath or transformer oil bath/ heat transfer cooling system using an aluminum enclosure case like this....http://www.hammondmfg.com/dwgf.htm..... Was curious if your bud down there has ever any issues with his closed loop system ? I'm going to put a T180 in it and use in a T29 , in Bakersfield heat the caps allways run hot so this is my solution.... :)

[properchopper]

Tony I was thinking of doing a closed loop / mineral oil bath or transformer oil bath/ heat transfer cooling system using an aluminum enclosure case like this....http://www.hammondmfg.com/dwgf.htm..... Was curious if your bud down there has ever any issues with his closed loop system ? I'm going to put a T180 in it and use in a T29 , in Bakersfield heat the caps allways run hot so this is my solution.... :)

Randy,

The HPR135 with closed loop/icewater seemed to work very well. Way too complex for normal use, but for highly stressed apps like SAWS maybe worth it.

My friend rigged this simple baby oil bath for a T-180. Crude but it works. I'll withold my take on this :olleyes:

73702



I still maintain that the best approach to keeping temps in a reasonable range is to have a sensible setup. :smile:

[rearwheelin]

:olleyes:

73702



I still maintain that the best approach to keeping temps in a reasonable range is to have a sensible setup. :smile:
Ha ha ha !!!...... Well as much as I run boats for me to have a good day needs to include a boat with a edgy / over powered / amped esc to get the desired effect .... I really don't like burned up/ over heated esc's or momma's tupurwhere in my boats so my best chance to run a T29 with a 1515 1y on 4s 10-12000mah with deep turn fins and a 440x 3b( I don't know why this prop, I like it though) and make her handle the weather around hear is doing this esc cooling mod lol I will bring it down sometime to whoop on yours ha ha

[martin]

When you remove & mod the cooling plate what do you use when you put the plate back on to the esc re heat sink compound. I can get the white paste heat sink compound, is this stuff suitable. Thanks Martin.

[properchopper]

When you remove & mod the cooling plate what do you use when you put the plate back on to the esc re heat sink compound. I can get the white paste heat sink compound, is this stuff suitable. Thanks Martin.

That's what I used. Should work fine.

[martin]

Thanks Tony, can i ask on the T180 when you use no lvc do you use a low voltage alarm or just keep an eye on run times. Thanks Martin.

[properchopper]

Thanks Tony, can i ask on the T180 when you use no lvc do you use a low voltage alarm or just keep an eye on run times. Thanks Martin.

Martin,

All my boats are configured for sprint (or offshore). Averaging 2 1/2 to three minute runtimes, the race setups are geared towards leaving a safe amount in the batteries.

I've gone high-tech timing my setups ( I really do use this !)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvQbEnwjNSU

[SirBudman32]

Just to let you guys know the heat trick works great for getting the brass nipples out of the ends. I used my mini torch and they came right out.

75128751267512575127

[teddyboy]

Tony, Where did you get the 90 degree fittings and are they 10/32? Also, do I owe you some parts from a UL-1?

Thanks Ted

[properchopper]

Tony, Where did you get the 90 degree fittings and are they 10/32? Also, do I owe you some parts from a UL-1?

Thanks Ted

Ted,

These are what I've used : (toggle down; you'll see them) http://kintecracing.com/Water_Cooling_BQFJ.html

I've also used these (larger i.d.) - Aeromarine or Insane Boats has them (Kintec's out of stock)- call to order : 81853
both are 10/32
Be VERY CAREFULL when removing the original barbs - they break off easy & then :censored:

Put a drill bit snugly in the barb to keep it from collapsing , hit the joint with a torch, then CAREFULLY break it loose & unscrew.

You were going to send me a UL-1 strut. :Praying:

[G-UNIT]

jwt:
Did you also drill through the sides to get the holes into the center section then seal up the outside holes?
I can't tell in your pics, in photo #3 I see the hole on the inside but don't see any holes on the outside.
just last night I took the plate off a bad t180a and was contemplating what I could do with it and then this morning here it is, wow what are the chances.

[teddyboy]

Tony, thanks for the response. I will be going back to Longview, Texas and I will round up the UL-1 strut(s) I promised you. I am still in Florida and haven't found time to take care of that business. I will take care of it 2nd week in August. Sorry and thanks for the information.

Ted

[teddyboy]

Tony, my flight got cancelled, trip in two weeks to get those struts for you. The esc cooling mods are complete as per your instructions. Thanks again. Ted

[properchopper]

Tony, my flight got cancelled, trip in two weeks to get those struts for you. The esc cooling mods are complete as per your instructions. Thanks again. Ted


:thumbup1:

[viper1]

And just when you think you've seen all variations....

Here's another one, most of it not new but for me the ideal combination.

I didn't want to make more holes than necessary, so I drilled 4 holes under an angle, like jwt did.
Next I made a divider or 'dam' from thin aluminium, JB-welded in to keep both sides separated and the water can not go ways it's not supposed to go. (Not likely, but possible if left out) This way I can still use it for dual, or single pickup.
To mount the covers securely, but not permanent, I wanted to use the nipples to hold the covers on.
For this I had to make new nipples with a small flange, as the original nipples are constant diameter.
I think the result looks "cool" ? (pun intended)

[viper1]

Final Photo's :

[properchopper]

Nice Job :thumbup1: Have a question ; what tubing did you use that makes nice 90 deg. bends without collapsing ?

[viper1]

Thanks Proper,

That's just "painted on" using the photo before it.
But with the tygon fuel tubing I use for cooling, reality would not be that far of I guess. but it probably will naturally sit in a U-shape instead of 2- 90 deg. bends

[Megabiker98]

This and the seaking esc is the same thing correct???

[viper1]

Yep correct

[properchopper]

This and the seaking esc is the same thing correct???

Yuppers.

[viper1]

Thanks Proper,

That's just "painted on" using the photo before it.
But with the tygon fuel tubing I use for cooling, reality would not be that far of I guess. but it probably will naturally sit in a U-shape instead of 2- 90 deg. bends

In fact you got me curious, so here is the real life test.
I like the tygon tubing for cooling, it's tough, larger inner diameter, and as you can see, it goes even past 90 deg and is still open. (I guess your interest comes from sqeezing it in a narrow hull?)
http://users.tpg.com.au/gmustang/extern/bend1.jpg http://users.tpg.com.au/gmustang/extern/bend2.jpg

[Megabiker98]

I've heard some complaints about the lvc? I don't like to turn it off because I don't have a timer. However I do plan on getting a flysky gt3b, does that have a timer on it???

[viper1]

I've heard some complaints about the lvc? I don't like to turn it off because I don't have a timer. However I do plan on getting a flysky gt3b, does that have a timer on it???

Never had any problems with LVC, between the seaking and turnigy this must be the most used boat esc (at least in this Amp range). There's a reason for it's success.

:focus:
No mention of a timer in the gt3b manual, which I just checked for you :Shame_on_You:
I'm using a HK-310 radio, timer can be coupled to trigger, I like it and cheap. Has backlight now and a 'blingy' steering wheel.
All for under $50

[properchopper]

In fact you got me curious, so here is the real life test.
I like the tygon tubing for cooling, it's tough, larger inner diameter, and as you can see, it goes even past 90 deg and is still open. (I guess your interest comes from sqeezing it in a narrow hull?)
http://users.tpg.com.au/gmustang/extern/bend1.jpg http://users.tpg.com.au/gmustang/extern/bend2.jpg

The Tygon looks like it's worth a try. Usually when I encounter close quarters I'll do the 90 degree mod but it's a pain to get the straight barbs out, at least when I first started to do it. Here's another option : Autobahn88 tubing :

93824

[properchopper]

I've heard some complaints about the lvc? I don't like to turn it off because I don't have a timer. However I do plan on getting a flysky gt3b, does that have a timer on it???

These ESC's are notorious for premature LVC cutoff. This is an issue frequently discussed here. Apparently the circuit monitors fairly instantaneous voltage downspikes (which occur frequently) as opposed to average voltage. With premium batteries this is less of an issue, but most everybody I know in racing circles disarms the LVC and has test/tuned to run a 6-lap race without batteries getting into the danger zone. I have been using a GT3B for almost two years and really like it 'tho it has no timer. Consequently, during testing I use my trusty PorkMaster 2000 run timer :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvQbEnwjNSU

[Megabiker98]

These ESC's are notorious for premature LVC cutoff. Apparently the circuit monitors fairly instantaneous voltage downspikes (which occur frequently) as opposed to average voltage. With premium batteries this is less of an issue, but most everybody I know in racing circles disarms the LVC and has test/tuned to run a 6-lap race without batteries getting into the danger zone. I have been using a GT3B for almost two years and really like it 'tho it has no timer. Consequently, during testing I use my trusty PorkMaster 2000 run timer :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvQbEnwjNSU what do u mean by PREMIUM batteries??? I have 2 basically BRAND new gens ace 40c 5,000 mah 2s will those be affected??

[properchopper]

what do u mean by PREMIUM batteries??? I have 2 basically BRAND new gens ace 40c 5,000 mah 2s will those be affected??

The better batteries (read : more expensive:sad:) will hold their voltage under load better than sport packs like GensAce. I had those exact GensAces in a boat I was testing on spec power and while I was walking back to my pit table there were two LOUD POPS from inside the boat. Both packs (and they weren't run very hard) burst the hard pack and split open. My battery of choice, now that I've discovered them, is Dinogy. (b-back in a few hours if more conversation needed:Peace_Sign:)

[Megabiker98]

But racing boats, ur wide open more often than not, correct? I would just be bashing them in a way, with short burst runs!

[viper1]

These ESC's are notorious for premature LVC cutoff. This is an issue frequently discussed here. Apparently the circuit monitors fairly instantaneous voltage downspikes (which occur frequently) as opposed to average voltage. With premium batteries this is less of an issue, but most everybody I know in racing circles disarms the LVC and has test/tuned to run a 6-lap race without batteries getting into the danger zone.


Would you mind pointing me to some of these frequently discussed issues proper? First time I hear this. unless there are inferior batteries or something into play.
I've had premature LVC, yes. But this was due to too big a prop, running to deep, high I.R. batteries or a combination of those.
Could have blamed it on the ESC, but really, that's a setup issue.

EDIT: Also make sure you set the manual cell count, as recommended in the manual.

[properchopper]

Would you mind pointing me to some of these frequently discussed issues proper? First time I hear this. unless there are inferior batteries or something into play.
I've had premature LVC, yes. But this was due to too big a prop, running to deep, high I.R. batteries or a combination of those.
Could have blamed it on the ESC, but really, that's a setup issue.

EDIT: Also make sure you set the manual cell count, as recommended in the manual.

There are dozens of threads in the last year or so pointing out the flawed performance of the T-180 (and its varients) LVC

Here's a couple (there many more, take my word for it - or start a new thread and watch the response:cool2:)

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?34710-4S-goes-into-half-speed-in-3-laps-while-3S-runs-for-over-40-laps&highlight=lvc+seaking+180

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?39468-Cutoff-Voltage-on-a-Seaking&highlight=low+voltage+cutoff

To get around the problem you can buy outboard add-on LVC's for not much $$ or know your MAH consumption and time your runs.

[Megabiker98]

I've been looking for an add on lvc, I can't seem to find them? Do any websites carry them?

[properchopper]

I've been looking for an add on lvc, I can't seem to find them? Do any websites carry them?

You may of heard of this site :tiphat:

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=de-liposhld-32&cat=136

[Megabiker98]

See I thought it would be more of a battery accesory!!! Lol

[properchopper]

Another way of dealing with the situation : (I'll use round numbers to make the math easy to understand)

Fully charge your packs

Run WFO for exactly one minute, bring boat in

Charge packs to full, note how many mah it took - your charger should show this number

If (for example) you used 1000mah, you use 1000mah/minute.

If you want to use 50% of your 5000 mah battery (a safe number), run a 5000 mah pack for 2 1/2 minutes [ 2 1/2 X 1000 = 2500mah] using your watch (or Porkmaster 20000-like device)

Don't get any easier than this :thumbup1:

[viper1]

There are dozens of threads in the last year or so pointing out the flawed performance of the T-180 (and its varients) LVC

Here's a couple (there many more, take my word for it - or start a new thread and watch the response:cool2:)

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?34710-4S-goes-into-half-speed-in-3-laps-while-3S-runs-for-over-40-laps&highlight=lvc+seaking+180

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?39468-Cutoff-Voltage-on-a-Seaking&highlight=low+voltage+cutoff



The first link is not about the 180A , and in both threads there is the same individual screaming that this is a 'common' problem.

Maybe it is and you could be right, but I'm not convinced yet.
I did a search for more threads on the subject but thusfar inconclusive.
Having said that, If you search for the in-build BEC having problems in this ESC, you will find an ocean of 'common issues'.
When I bought my ESC, I ordered an external BEC as well...just in case.
Guess what, I'm using it...but in one of my planes because the 180 never needed it, works flawless and yes, I am running 6s.
Fact is however, this ESC has evolved a bit over time, and the BEC in this example has been improved.

Could be done on the LVC as well?

Could be a problem on older ESC's, or I am extremely lucky (for a change :smile: )

Sorry for going off-topic

[properchopper]

Whatever works you, go for it.

[osprey21]

This and the seaking esc is the same thing correct???
Yep.

[drwayne]

@Yiper1

did you restrict the water passage through central point the original journals ?.. or is the flow to new internal pathway a 'bypassed' affair ?
W

[viper1]

I restricted it, but not fully, I glued a "restricting collar" in both orig channels.

[drwayne]

I restricted it, but not fully, I glued a "restricting collar" in both orig channels.

Good stuff.
I used a helicoil thread repair insert as a flow reducer on either side of a similar mod... :thumbup:

W

[viper1]

This is what you meant right?

http://users.tpg.com.au/gmustang/extern/fp.jpg

[drwayne]

maybe, difficult to show in 2D.
try this ...

93865

[viper1]

Yep like that. Did you do any pro/post temp measurements ? if so did it make a difference?
I noticed that there are FET-banks on the bottom side of the circuit board as well, not cooled as well I would guess. But maybe these are for the reverse.

Anyway, never heard of over-cooling damage, at least not in these applications

[jsturess]

Hi

Is this upgrade necessary?

Do someone have some measurement before and after the upgrade?

[viper1]

Hi

Is this upgrade necessary?

Hard to say, Short answer: No.
Long answer: It depends, I could imagine a setup 'on the edge' where it could make the difference between survival or not.
But IMHO you should solve that problem differently, lighter prop or so. If you 'need' this mod I think you need to think about a different set-up.





Do someone have some measurement before and after the upgrade?

Not yet, but I don't think this will make it run hotter :smile:

[properchopper]

Hard to say, Short answer: No.
Long answer: It depends, I could imagine a setup 'on the edge' where it could make the difference between survival or not.
But IMHO you should solve that problem differently, lighter prop or so. If you 'need' this mod I think you need to think about a different set-up.




Not yet, but I don't think this will make it run hotter :smile:


But IMHO you should solve that problem differently, lighter prop or so. If you 'need' this mod I think you need to think about a different set-up.

Yes,yes, yes. While it seems (my opinion only, I'm no thermodynamic engineer) that most ESC cooling designs are not close to optimal and the
"T-180 cooling mod" is a relatively easy and obvious improvement, these upgrades and other methods may only provide marginal benefits. The at-risk components like FETs, stators and rotors are (likely) minimally affected by current cooling designs. While having some cooling is preferable to having none, pumping up the setup to gofaster and depending on cooling to stay in the safe zone is not good thinking.

While not a controlled experiment, this happened last year : Stephen and I have the EXACT same P-Mono with the exception of my T-180 having the T-180 cooling mod. We raced all year and had no problems with ESC heat. The last race of the season the outside air temps climbed way up. On the last lap of a six-lap heat BOTH of our T-180's thermaled. We propped down one notch and they still thermaled, only a little later in the race. To reiterate : the best way to prevent excess component heat is to adjust your setup accordingly.:smile:

[CHIEFY_44]

Hi T, listen everyone I am the Stephen Tony is talking about in his last post, what he has just said about our t 180's is correct, we have raced, tested and just messed around together at the lake since my p mono was built, by Tony, they are exactly the same apart from the esc mod, both have never had any trouble with heat. Motor, motor/esc connections, esc, caps and cells have always ran faultless always well within the safer temp range. They are both pretty quick and reliable.
But as far as the esc having pre lvc problem I really do agree with tony, that they do have a problem, I also disable lvc and test so I can run 6-7 laps safely, another thing I do is disable the bec and run a separate rx pack, doing this helps take some strain off the esc as well as some heat, in my eyes every little helps.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Does the Tygon tubing give enough flexibility?

As to water cooling the t180. I personally use these esc's often, I have admittedly overheated them. But that was the setups fault and not fault of the esc. Heat is generated from inefficiencies, if its running so hot that you need extra cooling something else should be tried.

As to the lvc. I've also experienced the lvc kicking in, when I thought it shouldn't. My personal experience really made me scratch my head. Because I've used this setup before and knew it was a good one. After "warming up" at home I figured it out. My batteries were in my truck bed for a few hours. I was running late fall, the outside temps in the 40-50 range or there abouts. So my packs were cold enough not to perform well. The next time I went out, I left them on my front seat and they worked great.

[viper1]

Does the Tygon tubing give enough flexibility?



It does for me Steven, please define "enough" ?
Might be interesting to know that after I cut my hoses to length, I throw them in a bowl of very hot water. They gain some flexibility and seem to keep this even after cooling down. A better grip on the water nipples as well.

[Steven Vaccaro]

thanks for the info

[twissted]

I have these esc's running in my 42'' cat pushing 3674 2200kv. I have read that you can run them on 8s. I would like to try this. I have 1S-8S Lipo Battery Tester Low Voltage Checker Indicator LED Buzzer Alarm RC

105693 I bought a pair of them.105690105691

I want to know what you think and this cooling that is done because of this? I have no cooling problems or problems at all on 6s. I use the Nano-Tec 65-130c liops.
What are your thoughts with the HK nano tech high discharge lipos?
Thank you.

[twissted]

Product Feature: 105694
•
Use for 1-8s Lipl/Li-ion/LiMn/Li-Fe

•
Voltage detection pricision: 0.01V

•
Unit voltage display range: 0.5V-4.5V

•
Total voltage display range: 0.5V-36V

•
1S test mode voltage range: 4-15V
Low voltage alarm mode for 2-8S

•
Alarm set value range: OFF-2.7V-3.8V

•
When the voltage is below the set value,it will buzzer with red LED light,pre-set value 3.3V.

•
Push key

[larryrose11]

here is what I did to my T180 heat sink

The original, featuring broken water connectors!!
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103034&d=1375039427

I milled most of the center out
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103035&d=1375039429

finished part
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103380&d=1375619482

assymbly
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103032&d=1375039423

finished heat sink
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103036&d=1375039430