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Smoothops
04-05-2011, 06:29 PM
So what is holding me back is getting the Spartan and wanting to go fast and it seem new prop and 6s lipo cause bad problems... So the question is if I was to get 4s lipo`s would i get fast speeds and no problems with the ESC and motor?

Wade
04-05-2011, 06:52 PM
you know...that seems to be something that not many have tried...well at least i have not seen any threads about it. I have thought about going from my 6s to a 5s set up. but also heard that you should have the same amount of cells and not mix them (I.E. 2s + 3s) unless someone makes a 2 -1/2s battery :laugh:

Smoothops
04-05-2011, 06:58 PM
Well we need the head honchos word of mouth in here then. I would be happy with 45-50 mph on 4s if it did not consist of me burning something up. So the question is would 4s 5000 mAh work? I mean we all want fast but I have a jato 3.3 and 55 mph is to fast unless you just trying to show off and do speed runs so i would imagine it would be the same on the water.

dag-nabit
04-05-2011, 07:18 PM
you know...that seems to be something that not many have tried...well at least i have not seen any threads about it. I have thought about going from my 6s to a 5s set up. but also heard that you should have the same amount of cells and not mix them (I.E. 2s + 3s) unless someone makes a 2 -1/2s battery :laugh:

I haven't tried it but here is a quote from an RC battery discussion that may be helpful.

Quote
Cells (or batteries) in series must be just about identical in all respects, except cell count. The use history must be the same. Why? Because the same current flows in all elements of a series circuit.

Batteries connected in parallel do not have to be identical in capacity or use history, but must be of the same cell count. Why? Because the same voltage appears at all elements of a parallel circuit.

I think Brushless has some experience with this, hopefully he can give you the skinny.

Kevin

Smoothops
04-05-2011, 07:21 PM
Thanks for the input but was you saying that it would not work? I did not really understand.

dag-nabit
04-05-2011, 07:27 PM
Well we need the head honchos word of mouth in here then. I would be happy with 45-50 mph on 4s if it did not consist of me burning something up. So the question is would 4s 5000 mAh work? I mean we all want fast but I have a jato 3.3 and 55 mph is to fast unless you just trying to show off and do speed runs so i would imagine it would be the same on the water.

Running 4S will take the load off the stock components which should help.

There are fewer reports of problems on the stock nimh batteries and 4S setups, but there have been failed components even on stock nimh batteries.

I think it is doubtful you will get 45-50 on 4S with the stock electronic components, If you prop up enough to get those speeds you will put the load back on the components.

With the right prop and trim settings I think you could possibly see mid to high 30's, maybe even 40 on a good day.

I haven't tried 4S, so I am speaking based on rough calculations and guesstimation, not experience.

Kevin

dag-nabit
04-05-2011, 07:38 PM
Thanks for the input but was you saying that it would not work? I did not really understand.

No, I was responding to Wade's question, my response to your question is above.

I think you can run 1 2S and 1 3S battery in series for 5S and make it work as long as the capacity, discharge rating, and number of cycles (age) of the batteries are the same.

But I have no experience with this, so wait until someone confirms.

You can buy two 5S batteries and run them in parallel with no problem. That would give you lots of capacity for longer run times.

Kevin

Alexgar
04-05-2011, 07:38 PM
Seems like alot of boat and money to do what a 270$ pb or aq can do 30-40 mph that is

Smoothops
04-05-2011, 07:43 PM
well money is over rated anyways, i ordered a UL-1 instead of the Spartan but it is a hydro and wanted to have a boat for the rough also. So if i can get someone to confirm that a 4s would work and me being a Traxxas owner on land i would love to be on sea as well.

dag-nabit
04-05-2011, 08:17 PM
well money is over rated anyways, i ordered a US-1 instead of the Spartan but it is a hydro and wanted to have a boat for the rough also. So if i can get someone to confirm that a 4s would work and me being a Traxxas owner on land i would love to be on sea as well.

GoeVW27 has been documenting his runs on 4S and 6S in his thread: http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=22331

Read through it, this will give you a realistic idea of what to expect of the Spartan on 4S.

Kevin

Alexgar
04-05-2011, 08:24 PM
I will work on 4s it comes with 2 pack that are pretty much equal to 4s

Smoothops
04-05-2011, 08:28 PM
I will work on 4s it comes with 2 pack that are pretty much equal to 4s

works on 4s, equal to 4s is this typo or am i just a newb.. And thanks for the info kev on that link couldnt really make out what was going on, but thanks.

Alexgar
04-05-2011, 09:03 PM
the 2x 7 cell pack that come with it are 16.8, 4s lipos charge full to 16.8 so they are equal voltage but the lipos will be faster because they can discharge faster and more consistently

Diesel6401
04-05-2011, 09:16 PM
you know...that seems to be something that not many have tried...well at least i have not seen any threads about it. I have thought about going from my 6s to a 5s set up. but also heard that you should have the same amount of cells and not mix them (I.E. 2s + 3s) unless someone makes a 2 -1/2s battery :laugh:

You can run 5s. Many including myself do it ALL the time. As long as the packs are the same mah and c rating (i also prefer same brand and same number of cycles) you won't have a problem.

Fluid
04-05-2011, 09:19 PM
As above, you can run a 2S pack and a 3S pack in series no problem, we do it all the time. The cells just have to be the same. Don't charge them in series unless you know it is safe to do so.

Running that big boat on 4S may be just as much of a problem as on 6S. For the same speed you will pull 50% more amps than a 6S setup - that is HARD on the electronics. If you prop so you pull the same amps with the 4S setup then your power is down by 33% and speed will be down 20-25%. The stock ESC will run on 2S so 4S is fine, but watch the amp draw - who is happy with a boat capable of 50+ mph but running just 40 mph? :ThumbsDown01:


.

Smoothops
04-05-2011, 09:20 PM
You can run 5s. Many including myself do it ALL the time. As long as the packs are the same mah and c rating (i also prefer same brand and same number of cycles) you won't have a problem.

Thanks so 4s or 5s would be fine stock. If you change prop same thing or that is putting stress on the the moter or esc causing
damage

Diesel6401
04-05-2011, 09:22 PM
Thanks so 4s or 5s would be fine stock. If you change prop same thing or that is putting stress on the the moter or esc causing
damage

It's gonna be slow on 4s but will run. 5s maybe the happy medium for this boat. 4s is slow and 6s is gonna blow :w00t: so try her on 5s....

Smoothops
04-05-2011, 09:26 PM
It's gonna be slow on 4s but will run. 5s maybe the happy medium for this boat. 4s is slow and 6s is gonna blow :w00t: so try her on 5s....

So 5s and a new prop?
Thanks for the help fellas

Diesel6401
04-05-2011, 09:26 PM
Thanks so 4s or 5s would be fine stock. If you change prop same thing or that is putting stress on the the moter or esc causing
damage

With this motor being a cheap 2 pole motor propping is gonna be tricky. Even if you pick the same size prop as the stock in a metal prop the amp load is gonna slightly raise because plastic and CF props flex under load and metal props typically maintain their shape under load.

Diesel6401
04-05-2011, 09:28 PM
So 5s and a new prop?
Thanks for the help fellas

What size is the stock prop?

Shaun78
04-05-2011, 09:45 PM
ya 4S is very low 30 mph range with stock prop, maybe 35-40 tops on 5S with a different prop. The Spartan needs 6S on stock setup...Maybe 5 S on a different motor to get 50mph will work.

Diesel6401
04-05-2011, 09:51 PM
ya 4S is very low 30 mph range with stock prop, maybe 35-40 tops on 5S with a different prop. The Spartan needs 6S on stock setup...Maybe 5 S on a different motor to get 50mph will work.

The Spartan needs FAR from 6s on stock power. We have all read and seen the results of 6s on this boat. I myself wouldn't be focused on hitting 50mph, I would be focused on making a reliable setup. You hit 50mph but at what cost. It's just a number...

* Just my 2 cents.

GeoVW72
04-05-2011, 10:40 PM
The stock setup equipment should have no problem on 4s provided it is lubed properly.
scratching 30mph with the stock prop on 4s is difficult and needs to be setup properly.
In recent testing I used a larger Prather 225 (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=hpi-prather-s225) prop and it's consistently in the high 30's scratching 40. However the amp load is approaching that of 6s on the stock prop as well as the temps with my modified cooling setup.

stock prop: 42mmx 59mm
P225: 46.7x 71mm

In my honest opinion you do need to stop focusing on the speed number, run it how it is on 4s and if you want to go faster try a slightly larger prop (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=grp-2317.45) with a few of traxxas's cooling mods to be safe.

4s setup;
strut: level
trim tabs: level or remove
batteries: rear, move forward 1/2"-1" if the boat is unstable.

Diesel6401
04-05-2011, 10:57 PM
In my honest opinion you do need to stop focusing on the speed number


AGREED!
:iagree:



People focus on the number way to much.... 50mph isn't a big deal, a stock ul1 can hit 50 on 4s with a prop change and do it RELIABLY!!!!

JMHO of course...

With the new and new brushless motors coming out the sky is the limit. Sadly Traxxas went the route of Cheap instead of efficient.

bbosncali
04-06-2011, 01:00 AM
yeah ive seen shaun78 spartan hit 30.7 on 4s and a week later he hit 48.1 and later that day 50.7 both on 6s and the next run..... well he's still looking for the pieces that blew cause it sounds like a chitty chitty bang bang car now!!!..... should have bought a hobby king spatoon..... :)

martin
04-06-2011, 07:09 AM
Ive got a 15" micro mono deep v with a $12 motor & $20 esc that hits around 50mph on 3s & is reliable, Why would i wont to spend $800+ on a Spartan with upgrades to make it work. Martin.

Shaun78
04-06-2011, 07:24 AM
im the one suffering but I still like my spartan. Ill just have to get another boat. Its like owning a real cigarette boat. You go out to run it and hope that you dont break anything. Ill just buy another boat too.

Shaun78
04-06-2011, 07:25 AM
The spartan is boring on 4S is what I mean....for me it's 50 MPH or close or not worth it. my opinion. 30MPH thats no fun

roadrashracing
04-08-2011, 01:43 AM
I found this vid of them running both

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujrg0RRdzfc&feature=related

Checkmateguy01
04-08-2011, 07:39 AM
They must have miss labled that, looked like it was pretty quick on 4S, quite a difference from the included 7-cell nimh's. The way everyone talks is that it's not really much faster on 4s over the Nimh's, that video kinda shows differently. I'll be plenty happy with that performance running in my cove at the lake!

Smoothops
04-08-2011, 07:50 AM
They must have miss labled that, looked like it was pretty quick on 4S, quite a difference from the included 7-cell nimh's. The way everyone talks is that it's not really much faster on 4s over the Nimh's, that video kinda shows differently. I'll be plenty happy with that performance running in my cove at the lake!

In the video it was 2s so 4s to me would be quick enough for what i want. I have a Jato and 55 mph is only good for speed runs. I think most are just trying to break the mph mark. I just want to cruise around with a little speed and show the boat off. Thank you all for your input it was appreciated.

Diesel6401
04-08-2011, 10:43 AM
Quick example on my SV.
12cell nimh 28-29mph
14cell nimh 32-33mph
4s lipo 39-40mph

You will notice a difference.

The guy in the video is a terrible driver, all that low speed driving and quick turning and the boat keep going on and off plane is just terrible for the esc. It won't be long before he burns his setup up...

dag-nabit
04-08-2011, 10:56 AM
Quick example on my SV.
12cell nimh 28-29mph
14cell nimh 32-33mph
4s lipo 39-40mph

You will notice a difference.

The guy in the video is a terrible driver, all that low speed driving and quick turning and the boat keep going on and off plane is just terrible for the esc. It won't be long before he burns his setup up...

:iagree:

Exactly what I was thinking while watching.

Kevin

Brushless55
04-09-2011, 01:52 AM
No, I was responding to Wade's question, my response to your question is above.

I think you can run 1 2S and 1 3S battery in series for 5S and make it work as long as the capacity, discharge rating, and number of cycles (age) of the batteries are the same.

But I have no experience with this, so wait until someone confirms.

You can buy two 5S batteries and run them in parallel with no problem. That would give you lots of capacity for longer run times.

Kevin

I think this boat may be a good runner on 5s
2s and 3s in series or better yet two 5s 5000mah packs in parallel
and with a X642 prop is could run good :thumbup1: