Project Mean Machine - Castle 1717 on 6s

[FighterCat57]

OK, so I picked up a hull/hardware Mean Machine and the used 1717 I had on the bench said, mount me, I need a new home. So... I did. No room for a cooling can, but this is a sport setup, so in it goes canless. I have some ideas to zip tie fans to the sides if need be, but will cross that road if I get to it.

Don't have any cables to fit this size stuffing tube, but it's got a 3/16" strut, so I cut an 078 wire and soldered up a drive for it. There's a bit of a bend, but it's pretty smooth. I've run these wires with quite a bit more bend. It may break, but it'll be from fatigue over time, probably not immediate. I'll have to figure out a way not to lose the prop when that happens...

I'll probably end up with a seaking ESC, but figured I'd test a Suppo 200 ESC kit on 6s. Soldered it up with a capacitor and used thermal grease to ensure the FET's touch the cooling block. Most importantly I soldered up a resistor so there'll be no spark while hooking up the batts.

As for the batts, I've got two options. Some good sized 3s packs in series or two 25c 6s long lipos in parallel. Will start with the 3s in series to keep things light.

Not sure what starting prop. Might be an m445 if my thoughts are correct, that should be a good sport setup with plenty of run time and a fun amount of speed.

There's plenty of velcro in the sponsons for moving the COG as necessary and the strut has plenty of adjustment. This hull was setup nicely when it was built. Thanks for that. =)

Here's some photos. Might get it wet this week.. but most likely next week.

We'll see how I feel in the morning. :cool2:

[millzee]

would it be worth trying a silicone jacket just up on the back half of the motor, I have found that these motors seem to get the hottest near the back end when using them in my truck.

[rearwheelin]

Dont even worry about the wieght. That hull runs light ! This is a picture of my first cat build.....Twin MM on 6s, 9t 540xls, 447s........Too fast for this boat.:doh:

[FighterCat57]

Good to know! It looks like it'll pickup quite a bit of air!

It's ready for the water, so just waiting for the weather. :Praying:

[Alexgar]

I used a m545 on my apparition on a cc1515 5 s and was really happy though I had to watch my run time cause a water jacket won't fit hope that helps

[steveo]

make sure that motor mount is secure, dosent look like much epoxy there

[satan_in_secret]

my cc 1717
fins were cleaned

[Brushless55]

Oh man, and to think I just put in a MG motor and esc in mine two days ago and yours in going to :rockon2:

[FighterCat57]

my cc 1717
fins were cleaned

Out of curiosity, what was the purpose of losing the fins?

It's neat looking like that.


PS- "satan" is on the disallowed list at my site if you were wondering. :glare: Nothing personal... unless you are satan...


First run went great, but I'll have to get an antenna mount. It dropped signal in the middle of a run. I thought something broke. Nope. She drifted in with a blinking rx light.

It's fast, smooth and needs a bigger prop! :w00t:

Plenty of room for 6s2p and lots of run time. Going for max fun/speed/runtime sport combo. I think this is a ringer.
:beerchug:

I'll try to get some video on the next run out. Maybe saturday.

[Alexgar]

What next x646 or x447?

[Brushless55]

what prop are you thinking now?

[FighterCat57]

what prop are you thinking now?

M445 and then m447. I have a feeling that I could run the 450...

[LarrysDrifter]

That motor wing swing a 50mm without trying. It likes bigger props.

[Brushless55]

wow, a 50mm on this little hull :rockon2:

[FighterCat57]

That motor wing swing a 50mm without trying. It likes bigger props.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. It seemed to hit peak RPM almost instantly. Talk about power.

Again the goal here is to over spec the hardware and run it mildly for sport use. The end result being a reliable, fast and fun boat.

[Brushless55]

now you have me thinking of using a CC1717 in my MM
maybe an air motor without a cooler :confused1:
do you have a support under the end of that big motor?

[FighterCat57]

now you have me thinking of using a CC1717 in my MM
maybe an air motor without a cooler :confused1:
do you have a support under the end of that big motor?

I just bolted it in. No cooling. No heat either. It's a sport setup, so doesn't get hot... Yet. =)

I'm working on a 1717 air motor mount for the Genesis. Since there are so many out there. No cooling can, just change the tail ring and coupler in the stock setup.

[Brushless55]

I just bolted it in. No cooling. No heat either. It's a sport setup, so doesn't get hot... Yet. =)

I'm working on a 1717 air motor mount for the Genesis. Since there are so many out there. No cooling can, just change the tail ring and coupler in the stock setup.

do you have some bigger mounts for the CC1717 motors.. car and air versions?

[FighterCat57]

do you have some bigger mounts for the CC1717 motors.. car and air versions?


Hopefully. Time will tell.

[Brushless55]

Hopefully. Time will tell.

Ok, I'm looking for a mount for my PT SS45 for a CC1717 motor :thumbup1:

[Make-a-Wake]

M445 and then m447. I have a feeling that I could run the 450...

An x645 may be a good option as well................

[ray schrauwen]

my cc 1717
fins were cleaned

Nice but, I can make coolers for 1717's on my lathe as easy as skinning a motor.

Besides, I think the motor stays cooler with water cooled fins.

Nust have been a pain in the arse to keep the wires held back.:confused1:

[ray schrauwen]

That motor I have to say is waaaay over kil but, what the heck!

I used a T600 1400Kv outrunner in the heavier Phantom cat with an x450 D/T prop on 5S OLD cells. About 55 mph...

I'm trying a Suppo 1970Kv motor in it now on 4S, We'll see if I can turn a nice prop still.

[FighterCat57]

That motor I have to say is waaaay over kil but, what the heck!

I used a T600 1400Kv outrunner in the heavier Phantom cat with an x450 D/T prop on 5S OLD cells. About 55 mph...

I'm trying a Suppo 1970Kv motor in it now on 4S, We'll see if I can turn a nice prop still.

That's kinda the point. Running a motor with plenty of head room, hoping for long and reliable runs.

I'm also going to try one of the 3740 outrunners to see how it does. :biggrin:

[FighterCat57]

Test runs went well... until the prop shaft seized in the strut bushing. :spy:

Not sure what happened there, maybe the cable was too tight, I dunno... but it's seized to the strut bushing.

ofYB_FLmXxo


Handles nice, it's a fun little boat. Looks like I'll get a wire drive setup now. The tapered rudder seems to have helped the cornering. It was a bit choppy so I didn't push it.

[jingalls007]

M445 and then m447. I have a feeling that I could run the 450...

Try a 452/3 if you really want some fun! That's my new favorite prop for this setup, Hydra 240, NEU 1521 1.5D, 4s2p, .21 sprintcat- same hull as the mean machine. no heat anywhere with this setup.

[Brushless55]

Try a 452/3 if you really want some fun! That's my new favorite prop for this setup, Hydra 240, NEU 1521 1.5D, 4s2p, .21 sprintcat- same hull as the mean machine. no heat anywhere with this setup.

Jarrett, I would love to see that run! :thumbup1:
where abouts do you live?

[FighterCat57]

Try a 452/3 if you really want some fun! That's my new favorite prop for this setup, Hydra 240, NEU 1521 1.5D, 4s2p, .21 sprintcat- same hull as the mean machine. no heat anywhere with this setup.

Sounds like a plan! Think I have a 450/3 so can inch closer to it.

I'm also thinking I'm going to start using the 6s long lipos for 6s2p.
:cool2:

[forescott]

Lookin good Ben!

[FighterCat57]

Lookin good Ben!

Hey, your avatar kinda looks like my new boat! :biggrin:

Is this a special paint or a factory paint? I think I've seen it elsewhere, but might have been this boat elsewhere?

[jingalls007]

Sounds like a plan! Think I have a 450/3 so can inch closer to it.

I'm also thinking I'm going to start using the 6s long lipos for 6s2p.
:cool2:

What's the kv on your 1717?

[FighterCat57]

What's the kv on your 1717?

AFAIK, they are all 1580kv.

[jingalls007]

22.2v X 1580 = 35076 RPM's.. I retract my earlier statement of the X452/3. That's wayyyy too much prop for those rpm's. X437/3, m440 might be too much for your setup. 5s seems a bit safer and more manageable, just my opinion.

[FighterCat57]

22.2v X 1580 = 35076 RPM's.. I retract my earlier statement of the X452/3. That's wayyyy too much prop for those rpm's. X437/3, m440 might be too much for your setup. 5s seems a bit safer and more manageable, just my opinion.

I'm already running the m447 and it's got room for a bit more prop. Pulling about 130 amps peak on the tell tale amp meter.

:cool2:

[jingalls007]

I'm already running the m447 and it's got room for a bit more prop. Pulling about 130 amps peak on the tell tale amp meter.

:cool2:

That's great!! I didn't want to suggest a prop that seemed to be too far out for your setup. Sounds like you got a handle on it. What speeds are you getting? how are temps?

[FighterCat57]

That's great!! I didn't want to suggest a prop that seemed to be too far out for your setup. Sounds like you got a handle on it. What speeds are you getting? how are temps?

Haven't GPS'd but it looks like low 50's. The temps are low enough I can hold the boat up by the motor, but haven't run it a full charge yet.

Still have to figure out why the prop shaft seized into the bushing and get it apart. It's stuck in the strut.

[jingalls007]

I'm already running the m447 and it's got room for a bit more prop. Pulling about 130 amps peak on the tell tale amp meter.

:cool2:

Are you running the 447 on 5s or 6?

[Rumdog]

The 1716 can handle it. Especially in a mean machine!

[FighterCat57]

Are you running the 447 on 5s or 6?

6s 1p 5k 45c

[jingalls007]

and only 130 amps.. awesome!

[FighterCat57]

and only 130 amps.. awesome!

Yeah, I'll hook up the eagle tree when I get a chance and get some solid data, but that's what the tell tale was reading after the last run. (not the video run, the run before it)

[rawsonreyes]

nice to the meanmachine still in the game i have just setup one with a suppo 1760kv outrunner have not tested it yet hope to get 50 plus 4s setup mod 447 prop.:Peace_Sign:

[millzee]

apart from the obvious "slowing down" what would the other effects be running 4s in your system? I'm in two minds weather to build mine the same as yours and hopfully swap the lipo's from 6s to 4s so I can teach my kids how to drive or just get a smaller motor and try building a slow boat with reliablity:confused2:

[FighterCat57]

apart from the obvious "slowing down" what would the other effects be running 4s in your system? I'm in two minds weather to build mine the same as yours and hopfully swap the lipo's from 6s to 4s so I can teach my kids how to drive or just get a smaller motor and try building a slow boat with reliablity:confused2:

This would be a great trainer on 4s. Slowing the RPM down will greatly decrease the amp load so expect some good run times. Also less amp draw = less heat. Expect a smooth running, cool and nimble boat. This thing turns amazingly well.

That reminds me. I need to figure out how to get the cable apart from the bushing. :spy:

[sailr]

actually, as you go up in voltage, amps come DOWN. So 4S will draw more amps than 6S. The motor is trying to achieve it's watt rating so if you reduce the volts, the amps have to go up. The highest amp eaters are 2S setups.

For example, you can actually run a NEU 1527 on 10S using only a 120A esc!

[millzee]

Thanks mate, that's exactly what I needed to hear.:thumbup:
I picked up one of those "water damaged" hull and hardware kits so I'm going for a cheap build. I'm glad to see yours is bring you joy, keep having fun:smile:

[millzee]

actually, as you go up in voltage, amps come DOWN. So 4S will draw more amps than 6S. The motor is trying to achieve it's watt rating so if you reduce the volts, the amps have to go up. The highest amp eaters are 2S setups.

For example, you can actually run a NEU 1527 on 10S using only a 120A esc!

:confused:I'll make sure to monitor the temps and maybe hook up the eagle tree to help teach me about these things. Thanks again.

[FighterCat57]

actually, as you go up in voltage, amps come DOWN. So 4S will draw more amps than 6S. The motor is trying to achieve it's watt rating so if you reduce the volts, the amps have to go up. The highest amp eaters are 2S setups.

For example, you can actually run a NEU 1527 on 10S using only a 120A esc!

Jim, spinning a prop at a lower RPM will net you less amp draw.

6s 1580 w 447 = ~130 amps
4s 1580 w 447 = ~65 amps


It will take more amps to accommodate the same watt load, but if the watt load is drastically decreased, then the amp load is cut down as well.

No arguing that increasing the voltage, decreases the amps to do the same job, but you have to take into account the load before presenting a solution. :popcorn2:

[FighterCat57]

Thanks mate, that's exactly what I needed to hear.:thumbup:
I picked up one of those "water damaged" hull and hardware kits so I'm going for a cheap build. I'm glad to see yours is bring you joy, keep having fun:smile:

Nice!

I've found that replacing the rudder with a tapered rudder helps in cornering.

Overall so far it's been a great hull, lots of fun! :beerchug:

[FighterCat57]

OK, I still don't know what happened to the strut/cable, BUT, it was fused together. I had to use the vice and an hammer with some heat to get them apart.

Now the cable doesn't fit into the strut. :confused2: It somehow expanded. It doesn't fit into my other strut either.

So, now that I have the new 3/16" wire drives updated, figured I try one out with an m447. I re-installed the .078 wire drive and the stainless collet.

Good time to fit the 6s long lipos too, so now it's 6s2p 25c 10,000 mah.

Should make for a zippy little bugger and some fun run times. :tongue_smilie:

[wparsons]

Jim, spinning a prop at a lower RPM will net you less amp draw.

6s 1580 w 447 = ~130 amps
4s 1580 w 447 = ~65 amps


It will take more amps to accommodate the same watt load, but if the watt load is drastically decreased, then the amp load is cut down as well.

No arguing that increasing the voltage, decreases the amps to do the same job, but you have to take into account the load before presenting a solution. :popcorn2:

Bingo, and at the same time if you raise the voltage without changing anything else you will absolutely increase the current draw.

Higher voltage setups draw less amps because you run a lower kv motor and/or a smaller prop.

If you don't change the setup at all, adding volts will increase amps and decreasing volts will decrease amps.

[FighterCat57]

Some updated photos;

Plenty of room in this hull. I have some pipe insulation I plan to use to secure the batteries in place. (they are also velcro'd)

[ray schrauwen]

I told my buddy how well the 1717 would perform but, he just would not budge. He opted for a Leopard... Not to say one was better than the other but Castle does have a good record for their motors.
I bought one from the sale and I wish I bought a skid load. Sold it, had remorse and bought another one just the other day on Ebay for $120.

Mine will go in the Phantom 29" cat. Very heavy for a 29" cat @ 3.5lbs bare hull. It said 800grams on the description.

[millzee]

How have you found the weight of 2x 6s 5000mah with the 1717, after making my mount and reinforcing the hull, I'm starting to worry that she'll be too heavy. Does your boat sit in the water well with all the weight?

[FighterCat57]

How have you found the weight of 2x 6s 5000mah with the 1717, after making my mount and reinforcing the hull, I'm starting to worry that she'll be too heavy. Does your boat sit in the water well with all the weight?

It sits nicely and rides nice. The extra weight seems to help stabilize it. With 1p I kept wondering when it would blow over. Now it's like a missile.

The stock strut seized up again, even with a new shaft. First on the Hughey and now on the wire stub. It's locked up so hard, I can't hammer it apart. It was freshly greased before the run and now locked up again. Time for a new strut.

[millzee]

damn, that sucks. I hope you get it sorted. I'm going to try running the stock strut and flex that come with the hull, I hope it won't cause me the same issue's. The flex is a little questionable but until I get another I'll try it.

[Boaterguy]

have you checked the strut temps? are you sure it's not welding itself/ soldering (if it's a soldered cable) to the flex?

[FighterCat57]

have you checked the strut temps? are you sure it's not welding itself/ soldering (if it's a soldered cable) to the flex?

Happened with a wire drive after it happened with a cable. Was the cable that came with the boat, so really confused. It's nicely greased up, just stuck like it's welded in place. There's no give when I try to break it loose. I've set the strut in a vice and hammered on the shaft, and it doesn't move...

[Brushless01]

Would the fightercat mount and a 1717 fit under the hatch ?
Thanks

[ray schrauwen]

How have you found the weight of 2x 6s 5000mah with the 1717, after making my mount and reinforcing the hull, I'm starting to worry that she'll be too heavy. Does your boat sit in the water well with all the weight?

Yes but the power & torque of the 1717 made my cat very uncontrollable with a 45mm prop. I have plans for the motor in a light 40" carbon mono.

[FighterCat57]

Would the fightercat mount and a 1717 fit under the hatch ?
Thanks

It looks very close and measures just within size. I'd have to pull my motor and set the mount in there to be certain, but I'm pretty sure it would.


I'm waiting on a new strut. This one keep seizing to the shafts for some reason. So I'm just going to replace the entire drive. Odd that it kept seizing up like it has. Full of grease, just locked up solid.

[FighterCat57]

Just an update, had to replace the strut & the strut hanger. The bushing just kept seizing. Just for kicks, I installed a used 4mm system and a 47mm prop.

Now it's nice and solid, no slop in the drive train, lubed up and ready to hit the water. I've got a new GPS, so might make it out later today / tomorrow. =)

[millzee]

looking forward to seeing some good results, good luck

[satan_in_secret]

i just show
my genesis run on cc1717(heli version), 6s 40c 5000mah, 180a esc with m645 prop. it's pretty and compatible.
57451

[FighterCat57]

This thing has been a blast. Need to get some vid. It handles great and has a good amount of run time.

Think it's ready for the swap shop soon. Too many boats and projects on the table. So if anyone wants an RTR or ARR make me some offers. =)

[millzee]

now that I've seen mine run nice with the strut up so high, I'm thinking I might chuck the 1717 back in for a few runs and seeing how it goes.

[FighterCat57]

now that I've seen mine run nice with the strut up so high, I'm thinking I might chuck the 1717 back in for a few runs and seeing how it goes.

This one's been a super smooth runner. Not much motor heat at all. Just a fun little boat. Didn't shoot for a very fast setup, just a fun, good handling sport boat. =)

[millzee]

what sort of speed you talking 45-50mph??

[FighterCat57]

what sort of speed you talking 45-50mph??

I never gps'd it, but I'd say yeah, right in that area.

[ray schrauwen]

I think I will try these adjustments on my 29" Phantom cat. Never tried running the prop that high on a cat, mono yes, cat, no.