JAE Mini Sprint

[Doug Smock]

The testing is over.
We met our goal and this is what we have landed on for under 200 bucks READY TO RUN.
Rod has all the component information and will post it in this thread along with a time frame for the plans for this boat.

This run is with a $12.00 4400kv outrunner, 2s 2200 25c pack, with a X431 prop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxZk23dugmU
I ran this boat for one mile with the above set up and collected the following data.
74 degree day no water cooling.
Motor 139'F
ESC 101'F
Battery 103'F
I put 1716 ma back in the pack after the run.
Speed with a Garmin 101 taped to the cowl was right at 40mph.

Just for grins I put a 3s 2200 25c pack in the boat with the above set up and here is the run. The boat handled the additional speed without a problem but as we'd expect this was the upper limits of this set up. :hornets_nest:;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCRlEedEowU
Phil Pace with Vac-U-Boat is working on cowls for it.:smile:
Man this was a fun project!!!!
Thank you Mr.Geraghty
Doug :beerchug:
PS I just realized I don't have pictures of the boat. I'll take a couple tomorrow and post them here.

[SweetAccord]

Nice!

[Diegoboy]

How long is she?

[geraghty]

How long is she?

17"

[Doug Smock]

Rod your quick.

[sailr]

Lil booger scoots!

[geraghty]

The testing is over.
We met our goal and this is what we have landed on for under 200 bucks READY TO RUN.
Rod has all the componet information and will post it in this thread along with a time frame for the plans for this boat.

This run is with a $12.00 4400kv outrunner, 2s 2200 25c pack, with a X431 prop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxZk23dugmU
I ran this boat for one mile with the above set up and collected the following data.
74 degree day no water cooling.
Motor 139'F
ESC 101'F
Battery 103'F
I put 1716 ma back in the pack after the run.
Speed with a Garmin 101 taped to the cowl was right at 40mph.

Just for grins I put a 3s 2200 25c pack in the boat with the above set up and here is the run. The boat handled the additional speed without a problem but as we'd expect this was the upper limits of this set up. :hornets_nest:;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCRlEedEowU
Phil Pace with Vac-U-Boat is working on cowls for it.:smile:
Man this was a fun project!!!!
Thank you Mr.Geraghty
Doug :beerchug:
PS I just realized I don't have pictures of the boat. I'll take a couple tomorrow and post them here.

I want to thank Doug for all the testing...:thumbup1:..As you can see the boat is rock solid and exhibits absolutely no bad behavior.....
The "mini-sprint" went into the water under our $200.00 target price,radio and all.I used the Zippkits .12 rudder,turnfin and radio box seals.I will put together a bill of materials showing all the equipment we used in the boat.
I plan to post the PDF plans on line in the couple of weeks.....when this happens I will post a link to the JAE "mini-sprint"plans on this forum...... As with all JAE plans,they will be free and all you will have to do is download the plans to a CD and take them to a KINKOS and have them printed.The plans will include full size templates for building the boat.

[geraghty]

Rod your quick.

:thumbup::beerchug:

[siberianhusky]

Now I have my next build! Thanks so much! I have a .12 nitro, started a 21fe and now have to build this one!
Best running riggers I've ever had!

[regisparent]

do you plan to sell just the kit without electronic?

[geraghty]

do you plan to sell just the kit without electronic?


I really do not know.....Zippkits will be making that decision.....The JAE design team furnishes the design,the free plans,builds a prototype and does the testing.
After completion of the testing JAE will release the plans for production.
At that point the entire JAE design team is off the merry-go-round.
All marketing decisions will be made by Zippkits......

[geraghty]

I want to thank Doug for all the testing...:thumbup1:..As you can see the boat is rock solid and exhibits absolutely no bad behavior.....
The "mini-sprint" went into the water under our $200.00 target price,radio and all.I used the Zippkits .12 rudder,turnfin and radio box seals.I will put together a bill of materials showing all the equipment we used in the boat.
I plan to post the PDF plans on line in a couple of weeks.....when this happens I will post a link to the JAE "mini-sprint"plans on this forum...... As with all JAE plans,they will be free and all you will have to do is download the plans to a CD and take them to a KINKOS and have them printed.The plans will include full size templates for building the boat.

Here is the bill of materials we used on the prototype JAE Mini-Sprint FE.
Remember....there was no water cooling installed in the prototype........

JAE BILL OF MATERIALS

ESC – Hobby King 80Amp ESC/wBEC..$40.00
Motor - Hobby King TR22234-4400……$12.00
Battery – Turnigy 2200-2s-25C…………$10.00
Servo – HobbyKing CS929MG…………..$4.50
Radio – HobbyKing 2-channel wheel…….$17.00*
Turnfin – Zippkits……………………...…$12.00
Rudder – Zippkits ………………………..$ 16.00
Radio box seal – Zippkits…………………$5.00
Boom tubes – 3/16” carbon fiber
Poltruded tube-Goodwinds ……………….$5.50
Prop-X431 Octura plastic…………………$1.50
Flexshaft – Hughey 1/8” X 1/8”…………$10.00
Flexhex – Octura 1/8” X 1/8” ……………$10.00
Misc building materials...............................$20.00

For a grand total of $163.50

• The radio we used was the Hobby King GT2-2
• 2.4GHZ -2 channel wheel radio.Do not be fooled by the
• $17.00 price tag….this is one very good little radio.
• It is rock solid and works great…..

[BakedMopar]

oo oo oo me want me want.

[wparsons]

What were the temps like with the 3s pack? I think I'll probably run water cooling with mine, but the speed/handling looks VERY impressive!

[Doug Smock]

What were the temps like with the 3s pack? I think I'll probably run water cooling with mine, but the speed/handling looks VERY impressive!

The motors stator was 170'
The battery was 150' This is a old 2200 25c pack that I got used so I have no idea how many cycles are on, it and I'm sure I was over it's C rating.
I put 1675ma back in it after the run.
The ESC was 125'
I'd look for a lower kv motor to run on 3s.

D.

[raptor347]

Micro riggers go mainstream. Great for clubs with limited space.

I may have to order some bits just to build a small pond rigger.

[geraghty]

oo oo oo me want me want.


ZIPPKITS WILL BE WORKING FULL BLAST ON THIS KIT AS SOON AS WE CAN COMPLETE THE PLANS FOR PUBLICATION.....:thumbup:
SHOULD BE NO LONGER THAN A COUPLE OF WEEKS........

[wparsons]

The motors stator was 170'
The battery was 150' This is a old 2200 25c pack that I got used so I have no idea how many cycles are on, it and I'm sure I was over it's C rating.
I put 1675ma back in it after the run.
The ESC was 125'
I'd look for a lower kv motor to run on 3s.

D.

That's pretty toasty! I bet a 3500kv with cooling would be peachy on 3s, possibly even a 32mm prop as well.

[carlcisneros]

Doug;
It sure does sound like a 20 rigger running on 3s.

great running little rigger.

[monojeff]

Micro riggers go mainstream. Great for clubs with limited space.

I may have to order some bits just to build a small pond rigger.

I'm with you Brian sounds like fun!!
Keep me posted if you do this!!

[Doug Smock]

Doug;
It sure does sound like a 20 rigger running on 3s.

great running little rigger.

I said the same thing Carl.
I bet we end up with a half a dozen of these things at the club.:thumbup1:

D.

[johnnywall]

I love the minis and this one looks great. A small tight oval with 5 of these on it would be a very fun afternoon. You could build 7 of these for the price of one 40inch double motor cat!! Sign me up!:buttrock::buttrock::buttrock::buttrock:

[pescador]

The sprint is up on the Zippkit website, expected delivery April 20th. This could be a great boat for our club too as long as I don't have to build them all.:w00t:

[wparsons]

Excellent news! And, a new site for zippkits too!

[NativePaul]

Doh, no plans on the new site though.

[old guy]

:thumbup:

[mhall]

Does anyone know when Zippkits will have these plans? Is it still April 20th?
Thanks!

[lectriglide]

Does anyone know when Zippkits will have these plans? Is it still April 20th?
Thanks!

Website shows kits available 4/20. I'm guessing the easiest way to find out is send Joe and email through their website on when the plans will be posted. On another note, the website has recently been revised and I can't find any plans on it anymore. :confused2:

[martin]

Spoke to Joe about the release date on the kits & he said he hoped the date was good providing everything comes together ok. Re plans he hopes to release them on or before the date given. Thanks Martin.

[geraghty]

All JAE plans are released by the JAE design team,not by Zippkits.......The 'MINI-SPRINT" plans are done and are going to be published on the link shown below IN THE NEXT 2-3 DAYS....
Just keep checking the link to the ne-stuff website.....the plans for the "mini-sprint" will be listed with all the other JAE plans in the download section.........

http://ne-stuff.blogspot.com/

The Zippkits JAE "mini-sprint" kits are presently scheduled for availability 4-20......If you sign up for the Zippkits news letter you will be notified 24 hours in advance of the kit being officially released on the Zippkits website for consumption....
If you recall the mission of the "mini-sprint" was to complete a great handling,fast boat,radio and all,for under $200.00.....
Now I am not at liberty to tell you the final price of the boat from Zippkits,but I can tell you this...the model boating community will be very happy with the final decision.......

[lectriglide]

Many thanks for the update.

[mhall]

Like lectriglide said, thanks for the speedy update. That's great!

[Meniscus]

Doug,

Did you run the numbers? What's the amp draw?

[Brushless55]

man this little bugger is cool! :w00t:

[Meniscus]

Doug,

Did you run the numbers? What's the amp draw?

By my calcs, I'm coming up with an average amp draw of around 96 amps. Does that sound right?

[NativePaul]

looks like about 30A to me, its a bit faster than most Mini Hydro class boats now, but with 5minute+ runtime on 2-2,2Ah were pulling circa 20A, somethings very wrong if it sucks 96A and only goes a little faster.

I will be building one for mini hydro so we shall see how it does,

[Joe Petro]

The Zippkits JAE "mini-sprint" kits are presently scheduled for availability 4-20......If you sign up for the Zippkits news letter you will be notified 24 hours in advance of the kit being officially released on the Zippkits website for consumption....


In addition, we will be offering a special intro price for Zippkits.com newsletter subscribers only.
Rod fell off his chair when we told him that price...

We have also found a supplier for some unreal micro servos with metal gears, ball bearings and 42 inch ounces of torque (at 5v).

Then there are the 50 amp ESC's we will have.
These will be able to calibrate to any stick or trigger position for throttle.
We solder the motor (3.5) and battery (XT60) plugs for you too!
This makes the whole system plug and play!

We are also working with Walker Custom Boats to have some pre built hulls available on the zippkits site.

Like my kids say... It's all good!
Indeed.


Joe

[Brushless55]

Yeah! :rockon2:

[Meniscus]

looks like about 30A to me, its a bit faster than most Mini Hydro class boats now, but with 5minute+ runtime on 2-2,2Ah were pulling circa 20A, somethings very wrong if it sucks 96A and only goes a little faster.

I will be building one for mini hydro so we shall see how it does,

My calculations were based on Doug's stated mah put back into the battery and runtime. Seems high to me which is why I was asking the questions in the first place.

[siberianhusky]

This is my first mini, what to you think of a tacon 2848 4400kv on 2s?
They are just under 20$ from the States.
Pretty sure it's a 2 pole, it's half the price of the leopard lbp2848 same kv though.
There is a water jacket available for it.
Raining today so I'll get the sponsons built, built a tub on Saturday.

[Brushless55]

This is my first mini, what to you think of a tacon 2848 4400kv on 2s?
They are just under 20$ from the States.
Pretty sure it's a 2 pole, it's half the price of the leopard lbp2848 same kv though.
There is a water jacket available for it.
Raining today so I'll get the sponsons built, built a tub on Saturday.

a 4 pole will be much better
and try the motor they suggest from Hobbycity:beerchug:
I'm goint to run the 3500kv version on 3s in mine:buttrock:

[siberianhusky]

Not going to get into a peeing contest but I prefer North American suppliers whenever possible.
If I had more stuff I wanted from HK I'd order one, maybe next cheap battery order.

[monojeff]

Still trying to figure out what motor to use for this when I build it anyone know of a 4s motor that would work or would the batteries be to big & not sure what prop to use??
Like this motor for instance with a 60amp esc??
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11179

Or would this hold up to 4s?
http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m05-car-2040-3600.html

[Rumdog]

I'd go with 2 or 3s. Space for 4s is prob gonna be a concern in this little guy.

[monojeff]

I'd go with 2 or 3s. Space for 4s is prob gonna be a concern in this little guy.
Yeah I thought so too but figured heck if it could be done for something different and maybe pull some more speed out of it??

[wparsons]

Still trying to figure out what motor to use for this when I build it anyone know of a 4s motor that would work or would the batteries be to big & not sure what prop to use??
Like this motor for instance with a 60amp esc??
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11179

Or would this hold up to 4s?
http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m05-car-2040-3600.html

3600kv on 4s is asking for trouble, that's A LOT of rpm (60k rpm unloaded) on that motor. Even the 2900kv motor is a lot for 4s, that's still almost 50k rpm unloaded.

[monojeff]

Yeah thats what I figured best stay with 3s.
What do you guys think about running a Traxxas 380 4000kv motor in it on 3s, I already have this motor and hydrojerry is running it in his mini geico on 3s.

[slowride]

YES, now I want one...:thumbup1:

[monojeff]

YES, now I want one...:thumbup1:

You saying you want a mini sprint or the motor I was talking about?

[martin]

Ive been out 3 times with my Mini Sprint & must say this is a fabulous little boat, It handles unbelievably well espacially in the turns where you can turn flat out & its on rails. But you must understand this boat was designed around 2s & the speeds & loads that you will get on this setup to which the boat will perform within its capabilitys. How ever if your going to run 3s & depending on the motor & set up your going to use will obviously depend on the speeds & loads that your going to put on the boat which are obviously going to be higher than stock 2 s set up.As i said i run 3s with 3800kv on 60c & started with everything turned down (esc settings & stock prop). I threw a blade within 4-5 laps (i normaly always use metal props).Continued.

[monojeff]

Thanks I realize this and plan to run it 2s but figured why not try it on 3s also for some all out speed runs!

[martin]

Second time out i tore the wooden rudder bracket off going into a turn flat out right in front of me,I believe it was purly the higher load put on the rudder in the turn that caused it to break, So my suggestion is fit a metal bracket & not the wooden one.Repared with metal bracket & went out again,Water had slight chop so not quite as fast but pulled rear self tapping screw out on the turn fin & twisted the fin slightly.I have now put tapped inserts with heads on right through sponson but you could just brill right through the dowl & use a bolt with a lock nut all the way through the sponson. I also had the rear boom tube slide accross 1/4" in the tub so will be using metal collars & not the zip ties in future.Once ironed out this is going to be a great boat. Martin.

[martin]

One thing im pleased with how its working is the wire drive shaft assembly that i made which i use 2 off 3mm id x7mm od ballbearings with a 3mm stub drilled to 30mm deep & Loctite 603 & a .048" wire shaft going into an Etti 1.2mm collet coupling. I also made positve fixings at the front & rear of hatch so i wasnt relying on just the tape holding the hatch on in the event of high speed crashes. Martin.

[teddyboy]

I got my JAE mini sprint out on the pond this weekend and it a hoot to drive. No bad habits and handles extremely well. It is also fast for the size with the 2200 mA lipos under the hood. Special thanks to Mike Walker for the first class build.

[Mike Walker]

Hey, glad your having fun with it
Thanks

[geraghty]

Martin,
When I designed the boat,I never intended it to be a structural test dummy for mini FE applications..:w00t:
I have to admit however,I knew some RC boater would step up and try to find the boats structural design limits.....LOLOLOL
Of course you are going to have to beef the boat up structurally to withstand what you are putting it through....:-):-)......the videos are just great.....:-)
If anybody builds this boat per the instructions and uses the suggested equipment I used in the prototype ,the boat should last for 50 years.......
Your videos are a testimonial to just how good a kit the Zippkits Mini-Sprint is right from the factory.....
Enjoy the experience of a JAE......
Rod Geraghty

[martin]

Rod i agree 100% with the strength of the kit if you run within the bounds of the design, ( how many rc boaters stick to the script ). Joking aside the build & material designs are spot on if you keep within the bounds as with anything you will allways get those that have to push things like me. I now have to build a new boat as of last night, I was out testing looking for a bit more speed & had radio problem where i lost steering & went wot into concrete bank. These little rc hydros are addictive, Must be something to do with the 40years i run tethered ic hydros. Thanks again for a great design boat, Must go & start the new build now. Martin.

[NativePaul]

Oh poop, I missed that, sorry for your loss Martin, I guess that's what sparked off your questions about a new radio.

You should join the MPBA and come along to the records day at Burton-on-Trent at the end of the race season, I bet you'll kick all our butts and get your name in the books.

[martin]

Thanks Paul,Yes deff new radio.Boat was a mess.Id fitted 6mm solid carbon boom tubes along with 8mm od ally tubes through the tub to take the extra loads but a concrete bank wasnt in the plans.Where it hit head on the lipo which was a newish Overlander extreem pro 60c shot foward (it had a velcro strap right round it & sat on the rubber draw liner mat also to stop it sliding.The lipo hit the ally tube with such force it pushed the tube 1/2" foward where its glued into the side of the tub, Bent the ally tube & the lipo ended up with the impression of the tube in the end of the lipo.Unplugged everything & went straight home,Bearing in mind the boat sunk so lipo was cool.By the time i got home you could hardly hold the lipo,I assume it had shorted looking at the damage to the lipo. Martin

[martin]

I am a member of the MPBA (Model hydro club ) since around 1969. Martin.

[martin]

The impact also pulled the can of the outrunner foward of the motor spindle.The new boat will probably use a Leopard 2860 not sure yet on kv as i think the outrunner i used probably didnt have an awfull lot more in it, Still it was a start given it was an 8 quid motor.

[pescador]

Has anyone tried the black 3500Kv 5 turn motor from Zipp on 3s? I found a 3s 2200mah Nanotech that just fits and I'm wondering what prop to start with. The stock 30mm maybe?

[martin]

Im using a 3800kv outrunner on 3s 60c on Octura metal props, When i first ran the boat i used the stock 30mm prop & lost a blade within 5 laps.

[pescador]

Thanks Martin I better look for some props. Are you the admin at Mayhem?

[martin]

No nothing to do with Mayhem, You should be ok on 3s with some of the various carbon filled props around that ive found to be very strong. I think the stock props are ok on 2s but they are very thin & not very stiff or strong. Martin.

[pescador]

What do you use for timing on these motors? The Zipp esc defaults to 15 deg.

[martin]

Most outrunners like higher timing, You can run them at 15 degrees or go up to 30 degrees ok for more power but check temps.

[pescador]

Awesome thanks, I'm all set to try 3s.

[martin]

What the prop size on 3s & keep an eye on temps.

[martin]

I meant watch the prop size & not what prop.

[pescador]

I finally got to run my Sprint on 3s after the race in Edmonton. I hit the throttle a little hard on the first launch and it jumped out of the water and did a backflip :) it also snapped the flex inside the stubshaft.
So after a quick solder job and a little softer launch it ran great on the stock 30mm prop.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5h4RRqd2aM&hd=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5h4RRqd2aM&hd=1

[martin]

Good to see another M/S up & running, Their a great running boat that puts a huge grin on your face for so little money as well. Martin.

[Doug Smock]

I finally got to run my Sprint on 3s after the race in Edmonton.

The boat looks great Brian!! Nice work!
Doug

[detox]

The song in that video brings back memories. Year 1971 Ozzy Ozbourne is singing Black Sabbath's Sweet Leaf


...

[pescador]

The song in that video brings back memories. Year 1971 Ozzy Ozbourne is singing Black Sabbath's Sweet Leaf


...

Busted :)
I first heard Paranoid in 1970 and was hooked.