Installing Seaking/Turnigy 180A ESC in Spartan

[dag-nabit]

Taking a lead from JPirami I upgraded the ESC in both my Spartans. I didn't even bother powering up the stock system. Just stripped them down, and upgraded out of the box.

I thought I would post the mod along with some photos to assist others, who may be considering this upgrade, on what is needed, and perhaps my approach will spark your creative genius to come up with your own unique solution.

This is not to overshadow JP, who has been pioneering mods on the Spartan and posting here for the benefit of all of us. he was first, and his mod is similar, he just used some different materials.

The 180 amp ESC is too large to fit into the tray and sit nicely on the bottom. You need to build up the tray by 9-10mm (approx. 3/8") to support the ESC and allow the PC board to clear the top rail of the tray.

Mounting Plate:

I decided to make a mounting plate out of Lexan. Since i wasn't certain how much lift I was going to get from the other materials I planned on using I picked up some 1/4" and 1/8" scrap Lexan from a local glass shop. It cost me a $5 donation to their coffee fund.

I cut two squares approx. 5.2cm x 4.8cm from each thickness of Lexan, Then drilled and countersunk the corners of the 1/4" plate so it could bolted to the Spartan component tray. I didn't bother drilling the 1/8" plate, I figured if I needed the extra height I would epoxy it to the bottom of the 1/4" plate and drill through before mounting.

1/4" Lexan Mounting plate Drilled and Countersunk
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Spartan/a5f46248.jpg

Fitment of 1/4" Lexan Plate
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Spartan/75d22865.jpg


As you can see in the photos the plate fits nicely between the side rails and the existing mounting tabs.

Installing the Mounting Plate

Originally I was planning to epoxy the plate onto the tray, but decided I didn't want it to be that permanent, in case I wanted to change thinge up down the road.

Then I debated whether I should bolt it in, or use double sided mounting tape. JP had recommended 3M automotive moulding strip adhesive tape, but i couldn't locate any around town.

I finally decided to use both mounting tape and bolts. I'm certain if a good mounting tape is used the bolts are a bit of overkill. I choose to use both, partially to gain the extra 1/16" of an inch or so in height that the tape thickness gave me.

I mounted the plate using Lepages No More Nails double sided tape, then drilled through the tray and bolted everything in place with 3mm stainless steel bolts, washers, and lock nuts. Just snug, not overtight, I wanted to keep the extra height.

!/4' Lexan Plate Mounted in Place
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Spartan/36f3b361.jpg

Mounting the ESC

I decided to mount the ESC using self adhesive Velcro strips. They gave me the thickness I needed for height, provide some vibration damping, and facilitate easy removal of the ESC.

I placed the Velcro on the bottom of the ESC then lined it up on the plate, and pressed it into place.

As you can see in the photo, I had one strip on a bit crooked.

Velcro strips in place
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Spartan/b8117b60.jpg

ESC Mounted in Place
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Spartan/c3460a63.jpg

In the photo below you can see the height of the various layers of materials used. The top of the Lexan plate is just above the lower rail, and the PC board on the ESC just nicely clears the top rail. (without the double sided sticky tape underneath, the 1/4" plate is pretty much flush with the bottom rail)

Spacing on the ESC
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Spartan/86f2e2d0.jpg

Kevin

Continued next post Due to Too Many Photos

[dag-nabit]

Continued

New Collet

I also upgraded the collet. The one that ships with Spartan leaves much to the imagination.

You can see it is a tight fit, but in practice you can loosen it off enough to release the cable.

New Collet Installed
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Spartan/4ec341e6.jpg

Ready to Install

Here are the upgraded trays for both Spartans, ready to install and move on to the cooling system upgrades and wiring harness for batteries..

Ready to re-Install
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/Spartan/720dc114.jpg

Upgrades:
Tacon 3674 1700kv (ordered a Leopard but got shipped a Tacon)
Kintec 3 piece collet
Turnigy 180 amp ESC
EC5 Connectors


Kevin

[JPriami]

looks really nice. I like the plate idea for the esc's too. I like that collet. mines messing up. and the tools traxxas gives you the 10mm wrenches. are a joke. I have cracked 2 of them.
you should sell the stock stuff.
Im selling mine on ebay but its been proven to work and no problems.

[dag-nabit]

looks really nice. I like the plate idea for the esc's too. I like that collet. mines messing up. and the tools traxxas gives you the 10mm wrenches. are a joke. I have cracked 2 of them.
you should sell the stock stuff.
Im selling mine on ebay but its been proven to work and no problems.

Those collets are rock solid, I upgraded on my SV27's as well, despite having zero problems with the stock collets.

I had both sets of components sold to another forum member before my boats even showed up. So all taken care of.

I have bought and sold on e-bay often with few if any issues.

Kevin

[JPriami]

sell mine for me too then lol

[§Bodo§]

Hello dag-nabit,
I just saw that you ordered a 1700kv motor. Do you want to go with 6s? I ask because the pond near my house is small, this is why i think i´ll better go with 4s (and because i´m new to FE).

I want to replace the stock motor with a leopard. Most of you suggest the 1400kv for 6s. But what will be the choice for 4s? The 1650 or 1700 version? Or the 1350/1400 kv?
Regards
Bodo

[dag-nabit]

Hey Bodo,

I'm pretty new to FE boats myself, at least as far as upgrading and modding for performance is concerned. The daughter and I got into it a couple years ago with a pair of SV27's that we ran stock and had a ton of fun.

So I'm experimenting myself. I went with the 1700 kv because a couple other guys had gone with 1300 - 1500kv motors and I wanted to try something a bit different for comparison.

I'm not the most experienced person to be advising you, so hopefully others will chime in and give other perspectives and ideas to consider.

I assume when you say you are going to run 4S for the first while you are not concerned with top end speed. If that is the case then I think if you stay anywhere in the 1400 - 1700kv range you will be fine. And you can always move up to 6S later on this setup. (i.e. not too much higher or lower than stock kv rating)

Lower kv rated motors have more torque so you can compensate to some degree for the lower RPM's with higher pitch props.

But remember, every change you make will affect amp draw so you will need to monitor motor, esc, and battery temps while you experiment to make sure you don't over do it.

If you are wanting to try to run close to the 50 MPH mark on 4S, then you are in for a challenge, I don't know if it is even do-able on this size hull. You will need to get up into the 2200 - 2400kv range to get the RPM's needed, and that setup is going to draw a lot of amps. It would be hard on on components in my (limited) opinion, and would not be suitable for 6S down the road.

I may try to see how fast I can get the Spartan moving, but really I'm targeting a setup that will get us 45 - 50 mph and run reliably for a few years of good fun.

I won't really know what this setup will do until I try it out, and everything is still frozen here, so it will be awhile before we can play.

Kevin

[§Bodo§]

Thank you, Kevin for your explenation.

I already ordered the Tunigy 180A ESC as you did, just to be on the safe side, even if I want to upgrade to 6s. At the moment I think a topspeed around 45 mph will be enough for me. Do you think this will be reachable with 4s and a better 4pole motor like the leopards?

I think I´ll run on 2x4s parallel to increase runtime. I´ll do the already mentioned mods in the cooling system including 2nd cooling line for the esc. So I think I´ll try a 1600/1700kv leopard and order a few props to learn "by doing".
Regards
Bodo

[tomjr]

I am thinking of getting the 180amp turnigy esc to go along with the lepoard 1500kv motor for my traxxas spartan...i am experiencing very hot motors with 6s on the spartans....I have broke the stock motor on my first run with a 6s on srock esc and motor.
I have since mod the rudder intake and drill thru the nipple for better flow of water...
Can any bros here advice me if the motor is no good or esc ? can i just upgrade the lepoard motor or must i change the motor with esc.... please advice

[dag-nabit]

Thank you, Kevin for your explenation.

I already ordered the Tunigy 180A ESC as you did, just to be on the safe side, even if I want to upgrade to 6s. At the moment I think a topspeed around 45 mph will be enough for me. Do you think this will be reachable with 4s and a better 4pole motor like the leopards?

I think I´ll run on 2x4s parallel to increase runtime. I´ll do the already mentioned mods in the cooling system including 2nd cooling line for the esc. So I think I´ll try a 1600/1700kv leopard and order a few props to learn "by doing".
Regards
Bodo

Hi Bodo,

Not sure if even 40+ MPH will be possible on 4S, but as I said, I'm pretty new to this as well.

I don't know how much prop you can push on this set up without overloading the components.

Using a calculator a 1600kv motor on 4S with either a Prather 220 (44mmx66mm) or an Octura X642 (42mmx67mm) only shows about 35-36 mph.

An Octura 645 calculates out to 38 mph, but that is a lot of prop for this set up (IMO).

Keep in mind these are calculations only and are based on 80% motor efficiency and 25% prop slip. There are many other factors that will affect actual results. (water conditions, battery placement, strut and trim tab settings, etc.)

The bigger the prop (pitch or diameter) the more load on the motor. As you load the motor your efficiency will drop, but the larger prop should reduce slippage, so it is a non-linear trial and error effort to find the right balance without overloading the system.

As you increase motor load you increase amp draw. If you are going to experiment to try and get the max top speed possible on 4S (or 6S) then some type of system to monitor and record average and maximum amp draw is a good idea. The Eagle Tree system is generally regarded as one of the better/best systems (you can even add GPS to it), but even a relatively inexpensive watt/amp meter rated for 150 amps will do the job. I have recently purchased an eagle tree but haven't used it yet.

The only other suggestion I can think of right now is make sure your batteries have a high C discharge rating (40-45C) if you are going to be pushing the limit. This will help the batteries run cooler, and prevent "brown outs" on the ESC if you get high amp spikes.

Kevin

PS There are some very experienced RC boaters here on the forum. Hopefully a couple will drop by and fill in any blanks I may have overlooked in my limited experience.

Here is a link to the OSE calculator page, you can play around with different prop / motor combos to get a rough idea of top speeds. http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/conversion.htm

[dag-nabit]

I am thinking of getting the 180amp turnigy esc to go along with the lepoard 1500kv motor for my traxxas spartan...i am experiencing very hot motors with 6s on the spartans....I have broke the stock motor on my first run with a 6s on srock esc and motor.
I have since mod the rudder intake and drill thru the nipple for better flow of water...
Can any bros here advice me if the motor is no good or esc ? can i just upgrade the lepoard motor or must i change the motor with esc.... please advice


Hi Tom,

As I mentioned to Bodo, I'm fairly new to all this myself, but here is my $.02 worth.

There have been numerous reports of of failed stock ESC's, many have burned up completely. Most problems have been on 6S but a few have reported problems even on the stock batteries.

Reading through the threads here, or over on the Traxxas Corporate forum will reveal the details. http://traxxas.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?81-Spartan

The Stock ESC is rated at 80A continuous, 300A burst. It hasn't been conclusively determined if the issue is quality control, or if the ESC is under rated for 6S, but most folks are leaning toward poor quality as the problem.

I chose to upgrade my ESC right out the box, just because I didn't want to risk taking $100+ dollars worth of lipos out along with the ESC if it torched.

Keep in mind there could be dozens (hundreds??) of guys out there, who don't participate on these forums, running the stock ESC without problems, we don't really know for certain the full extent of the issues, but the reality is there has been a lot of reported problems.

In answer to your original question, if you stay at or near the original kv rating of the stock motor (1600kv) and purchase a more efficient 4 pole motor, yes the stock ESC will work fine. Upgrading the ESC would be choice, not necessity.

Kevin

[§Bodo§]

Hi Kevin,
thank you again for your opinion. But please allow one additional question. What is the right size for the collet you use above, is it 5mm x 0,150 or 5mm x 0,187 as my spartan didn´t arrive jet, I live in europe.
Bodo

[dag-nabit]

Hi Kevin,
thank you again for your opinion. But please allow one additional question. What is the right size for the collet you use above, is it 5mm x 0,150 or 5mm x 0,187 as my spartan didn´t arrive jet, I live in europe.
Bodo

Don't hesitate to ask questions.

The collet is 5mm x .150" to fit flex cable.

The propeller shaft is 3/16" (.187")

Kevin

[Brushless55]

I see some are talking of a mid 40's spartan on 4s
if that's what you are looking for you will need a Neu 1521 1.5D on 4s2p, and a decent size prop of 47mm+
my 2c :thumbup1:

[shctexas]

Just test-ran my "Albatross" using the "Priamods". I got 43mph out of her, much better than where she started......on fire! I used a leopard 4082 1450kv only because 1500kv weren't available. Installed a second in-hull water pick-up (just to see if I could) ....works great! This thing sprays water like a Rainbird yard sprinkler. Prop experimentation is next. Hey! not bad for a newbee. And again thanks to all for their experience and tenacity.

[dag-nabit]

Just test-ran my "Albatross" using the "Priamods". I got 43mph out of her, much better than where she started......on fire! I used a leopard 4082 1450kv only because 1500kv weren't available. Installed a second in-hull water pick-up (just to see if I could) ....works great! This thing sprays water like a Rainbird yard sprinkler. Prop experimentation is next. Hey! not bad for a newbee. And again thanks to all for their experience and tenacity.

:roflol:

Hopefully all that water is coming out in the right places.

Kevin

[dag-nabit]

At Brandon's request I'm re-posting pics from OP that have the links messed up.

Lexan Plate - Drilled and Counter Sunk
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/a5f46248.jpg

Lexan Plate - Installed with double sided tape and bolts
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/36f3b361.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/75d22865.jpg

Lexan Plate with Self Adhesive Velcro Installed (yes I know it is crooked)
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/b8117b60.jpg

ESC Installed - Caps clear the rail - you can see the layers of Lexan and Velcro.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/86f2e2d0.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/daidavies/RC%20Boats/c3460a63.jpg

Kevin

[Rcforever27]

Hey Kevin on my seaking programmer for the lipo cells, setting i have 1-6 and i have it set at 3 cells and then i'n () it says 6 cells with a star that means high voltage esc. Is this the correct setting? Or should it be set on number 6 which is 6 cells or 12 cells high voltage esc ? Thanks fir your help!

[dag-nabit]

Number 6 for 6 cells.

If you have a high voltage ESC the program card will then display additional settings (8, 10, 12 etc.)

Kevin

[Rcforever27]

Ok that's what i thought i have the hobbywing pgm card so #6 it is.... Just confused me because i'n () it says 12 cells..... Thanks for your help...