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View Full Version : What props for Titan 29"?



Bigbore
02-16-2011, 04:55 PM
I read the most used prop on Titan is Octura X447. Is 47mm the correct diameter?

I have tried the following config:

Motor: Leopard 4074 2000Kv on 5S
ESC: Hobbywing Seaking 120A
Timing: 0.0°
Prop: Octura X440
max speed: 64,8Km/h = 40,2mph
Motor and ESC are cold with this prop

Then with X640 the speed was 71,8Km/h = 44,6Mph and the ESC was too hot so I have on order a 180A ESC and I would know what prop can bring my titan at 50mph? Bigger diameter than X640 or bigger diameter than X440?

Old Sloppy
02-16-2011, 07:42 PM
The ESC was hot, but how was the motor?

Your timing needs turned up to at least 10 degrees.

I do not have exact timing information on this Leopard motor but 12 to15 degrees is standard for 2 pole motors.

higher timing is for higher rpm's, lower timing is for lower rpm's.

o.o degrees is "battery saver" mode, this is the slowest mph you can get.

That size of hull will go great with a 40mm prop.

Either a x440 or a x640, the motor temp will let you know.

The x440 will be slower & cooler and lower amps.

The x640 will be faster and warmer and higher amps.

Just note the motor's tempature and you will know what to do.

Note: purchasing an M440 or a M640 will reduce temps and aid top speeds.

M is just like an X but the tung is removed, this makes a little more slip at low speeds and then higher speeds as you approach top speed.

I had an x640 on a 36" cat that pulled wheelies so high it would go over on it's roof sometimes, like it did on Blue Lake in Valdosta at the SAW races...

Harry
P.S. the x440 and the x640 is the same diameter.

Fluid
02-16-2011, 11:18 PM
The Leopards are 4-pole motors, but the 4074/2000 is a 2.5Y motor so it needs more timing, between 10 and 15 degrees. Too little timing can be as bad as too much. The optimum timing just match the motor characteristics and the amp draw. The same motor in two different hulls may require slightly different timing advance in each hull.

The prop must be matched with the motor and the hull. A 40-45mm prop will be plenty, the Titan is not a large boat. For higher speeds you need more pitch, not more diameter - as long as the hull is trimmed to run freely. The Titan should run on the last 3-4 inches of the keel for max speeds, but that is not the best for turning.

BTW that speed (71.8 km/h) is right in the ballpark for your setup, more speed needs more pitch or a motor with a higher Kv. But be careful with the Titan 29, much more speed and it will be difficult to keep under control. The hull catches a lot of air and runs too freely at 50+ mph.


.

Bigbore
02-17-2011, 01:11 PM
Thanks for the info fluid.
This morning I've changed the timing at my Seaking 120A ESC at 11,25° (10° is not available) and the motor screams more than before at 0°.
My theoretical motor speed is 37000 rpm and I know this motor should run with 4S but I think that under load the speed is lower.

My target speed is 50mph and no more.

Nex time I will try the X440 prop with 11,25° timing and run time of 3 minutes as I done before.

The max Motor Temp was 42°C = 107F with X640.

rearwheelin
02-23-2011, 12:56 AM
What batteries are you running ? With your 447 prop and a 2000 kv motor with low temps on 5s you should have burried 50 mph and blew your boat over ! sounds like your battery or batteries aren't discharging enouph.....I had my old titan up 2 53mph with 1515 1Y NEU with 10,000mah of 40c 4s and a 440x 3b........?..........Your esc is suffering , I am really curious what batts...thanks

Make-a-Wake
02-23-2011, 01:03 AM
I read the most used prop on Titan is Octura X447. Is 47mm the correct diameter?

I have tried the following config:

Motor: Leopard 4074 2000Kv on 5S
ESC: Hobbywing Seaking 120A
Timing: 0.0°
Prop: Octura X440
max speed: 64,8Km/h = 40,2mph
Motor and ESC are cold with this prop

Then with X640 the speed was 71,8Km/h = 44,6Mph and the ESC was too hot so I have on order a 180A ESC and I would know what prop can bring my titan at 50mph? Bigger diameter than X640 or bigger diameter than X440?

My opinion is an x445....................with the bigger esc though............:smile:

rearwheelin
02-23-2011, 01:14 AM
I agree , a 447x is way too big and the biggest you should go is 445m. A Turnigy 180 is perfect for a hot set up but if your batteries aren't discharging more than what the motor is asking then it makes sense that your esc is hot and you have slow speed......your volts are dropping off and your motor isn't making its power...I have done some crazy things with my boats and burned up alot of esc's and mostlly due to my batteries....I once ran 8s threw a castle hydra 120 and a 13t 540xl in a titan 33 with a 447x and it went 55mph ! and nothing burned up.....only did it for 3 laps though....lol......:rockon2:

Bigbore
02-23-2011, 10:51 AM
The batteries I've been running are Zippy 5S 5000mAh 40C configured 5S2P with balcer plugs paralleled during discharging. This setup is the same as a big 10000mAh battery pack because the paralleled single cells are at the same volts. I think this battery can supply 100A continuos without problems and the low speed is due to the 120A ESC.
The prop I have (X440 and X640) are 2 blades sharpened and balanced. Then I have a cheap bronze 437 3 blades from china too.

The last tests I have done are the following:
With timing @ 11,25° and run time of 3.00 min the ESC was hotter then before at 0.0° with the X440 prop and the speed was the same as before 40mph.
Then I've tried the 437/3 and the boat was able to accelerate the fastest I've seen so far with a top speed of about 40mph same as with X440.
So what about a 3 blades prop? What's the difference with 2 blades? Should I try a X440/3?
Yesterday I've ordered this 47mm Diameter fiberglass filled plastic propellers just to try it for cheap. Do you think it will survive for a couple of minutes?

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-3bld-316

The next runs will be with Seaking 180A ESC when it arrives.

rearwheelin
02-23-2011, 11:22 PM
The batteries I've been running are Zippy 5S 5000mAh 40C configured 5S2P with balcer plugs paralleled during discharging. This setup is the same as a big 10000mAh battery pack because the paralleled single cells are at the same volts. I think this battery can supply 100A continuos without problems and the low speed is due to the 120A ESC.
The prop I have (X440 and X640) are 2 blades sharpened and balanced. Then I have a cheap bronze 437 3 blades from china too.

The last tests I have done are the following:
With timing @ 11,25° and run time of 3.00 min the ESC was hotter then before at 0.0° with the X440 prop and the speed was the same as before 40mph.
Then I've tried the 437/3 and the boat was able to accelerate the fastest I've seen so far with a top speed of about 40mph same as with X440.
So what about a 3 blades prop? What's the difference with 2 blades? Should I try a X440/3?
Yesterday I've ordered this 47mm Diameter fiberglass filled plastic propellers just to try it for cheap. Do you think it will survive for a couple of minutes?

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-3bld-316

The next runs will be with Seaking 180A ESC when it arrives.It is definatly not your batteries, thanks....I will be very suprized to see you gain much speed with the 180, allthough you do need that esc...I am confussed as too why your speeds are soo low..You definatly don't need 120amps to push a titan over 50 mph because at top speed is when everything should be running most efficiantly.......I believe there is something possibly wrong with your set up.........Are your bullet conectors all good as far as your solders ?....I am not sold on the esc being the cause yet........

Rumdog
02-23-2011, 11:41 PM
He's only running a x440, not the x447. I would NOT run the 447 with a 120 amp speedo and 5s.

Make-a-Wake
02-24-2011, 12:42 AM
I'm still stickin' with the 445 i recommended a few posts back.............but i think the "M" series would be the one...............m445

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-m445

rearwheelin
02-24-2011, 12:44 AM
He's only running a x440, not the x447. I would NOT run the 447 with a 120 amp speedo and 5s.I totally agree ! It seems like no matter what prop he runs, he's hitting a 40 mph wall.... If the esc is constricting his current flow I would have thought that it would have fried by now.............In my old titan 29, 2 5000mah 40c 5.0 Turnigy lipos , 1515 neu 1Y (2200kv), 440x 3 bl. was 53mph....with a hydra 240...hmmmm ? Keep us posted !

rearwheelin
02-24-2011, 01:04 AM
I want to see a transom shot , close up shots of all solder conections and bullet type's ! ......................and a side shot of you strut with a ready to run shaft in it!........lol......:beerchug:

Bigbore
03-15-2011, 02:12 PM
I want to see a transom shot , close up shots of all solder conections and bullet type's ! ......................and a side shot of you strut with a ready to run shaft in it!........lol......:beerchug:

The 180A Seaking ESC is arrived and in the following days I will rebuild the boat, then I will get the pics of the transom etc.

I'm very tempted to try a 3 blades prop, Is the OCTURA V942 a prop that can be used on my setup? I found it here in Italy sharpened and balanced.
http://cgi.ebay.it/ELICA-TRIPALA-IN-BRONZO-OCTURA-V942-x-drive-dog-3-16-/260664384451?pt=Modellismo_Dinamico&hash=item3cb0cedbc3#ht_500wt_922

ron1950
03-15-2011, 07:53 PM
i know a guy with a m445 on his

Make-a-Wake
03-15-2011, 08:38 PM
The 180A Seaking ESC is arrived and in the following days I will rebuild the boat, then I will get the pics of the transom etc.

I'm very tempted to try a 3 blades prop, Is the OCTURA V942 a prop that can be used on my setup? I found it here in Italy sharpened and balanced.
http://cgi.ebay.it/ELICA-TRIPALA-IN-BRONZO-OCTURA-V942-x-drive-dog-3-16-/260664384451?pt=Modellismo_Dinamico&hash=item3cb0cedbc3#ht_500wt_922

The V series props are lifters for riggers and hydros............

Bigbore
03-16-2011, 10:19 AM
The V series props are lifters for riggers and hydros............

what does that mean? lifters of what?

egneg
03-16-2011, 05:06 PM
what does that mean? lifters of what?

They are made to lift the back of the boat up off the water.

Bigbore
03-19-2011, 02:35 PM
Yesterday I have tried the 180A ESC for the first time.
This was the setup with my Titan 29:

Motor: Leopard 4074 2000Kv on 5S
ESC: Hobbywing Seaking 180A
Timing: 15°
Prop: 437/3
COG@ 32%
First run of 3 minutes: Motor temp= 34°C = 93°F and ESC temp= 36°C = 97°F
Second run of 5 minutes: Motor temp= 36°C = 97°F and ESC temp= 40°C = 104°F

Top speed: 74,5Km/h = 46,3mph
I have gained 6mph with the 437/3 prop

Then these are the pics:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5841/img0626wd.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3531/img0625q.jpg
http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/3121/img0622.jpg
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/6679/dsc05432e.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7744/dsc05431tv.jpg

rearwheelin
03-19-2011, 10:46 PM
All looks good .....You can gain a few miles mph by triming up the rudder, it looks really long also your turn fins look thick and would add a little xtra drag too..

Alexgar
03-19-2011, 11:06 PM
I have a x442 on my df29 and was thinking of trying a x445 but that's on a t180

Old Sloppy
03-20-2011, 10:04 AM
This was the setup with my Titan 29
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7744/dsc05431tv.jpg

How long is that stinger ?



Harry

Bigbore
03-24-2011, 02:35 PM
The stinger is 82mm long = 3,22" and is this one for 3/16" Propeller shafts:
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ros-stinger-str

How long should the rudder be for a 29" mono?

The last days I have tested the following configs:

Prop: X440
Motor: Leopard 4074 2000Kv on 5S
ESC: Hobbywing Seaking 180A
Timing: 15°
COG: 30%
Vmax= 66Km/h = 41mph
I have lost the temp recording but temps was low and I will try agai this prop

with the Prop 437/3 and COG @ 30% I had:
Run time: 7.00 min
ESC Temp: 53°C = 127°F
Motor Temp:46°C = 114°F
Vmax= 76Km/h = 47mph
IT'S THE FASTEST SO FAR

Then with Prop X640 and COG @ 30% I had:
1st Run time: 1.00 min
ESC Temp:40°C = 104°F
Motor Temp:38°C = 100°F

2nd Run time: 2.00 min
ESC Temp:49°C = 120°F
Motor Temp:45°C = 113°F
Vmax= 75,5Km/h = 47mph
This setup seems like the one with the 437/3 prop. Any suggestion on why?

Old Sloppy
03-24-2011, 06:36 PM
The tempatures suggest your motor and your ESC like the x640 prop best.
You may find the x437/3 may be the fastest , but the temps are lower with the x640.

Harry

Bigbore
03-25-2011, 11:16 AM
The tempatures suggest your motor and your ESC like the x640 prop best.
You may find the x437/3 may be the fastest , but the temps are lower with the x640.

Harry

Previously, I think the temps was lower with X640 because I have tried the 437/3 for 7 minutes until LVC and only for 2 minutes with X640.

This morning I have tried the following with the COG@ 30% and the prop X640:

1st Run time: 3.00 min
ESC Temp:48°C = 118°F
Motor Temp:42°C = 107°F

2nd Run time: 4.00 min
ESC Temp:53°C = 127°F
Motor Temp:45°C = 113°F
Vmax= 76,1Km/h = 47mph

Also the stock 4mm bullets of the Leopard motor got too hot and I will change them for the 5mm type.
Then the feeling that I have is the boat is faster with X640 then with 437/3 but the GPS do not agree:confused2:
I will try both X640 and 437/3 again to decide what I like the most

Old Sloppy
03-25-2011, 07:54 PM
The next prop size is a x642, I think you will see the increase in speed.....

Harry

rearwheelin
03-26-2011, 06:39 PM
I would try the same props after you change your bullets. I think you picked up speed after you re-done some of your solders. Also you will be way better off using a propane torche rather then a solder gun for large bullets and 10 guage wire........I would go with even larger bullets like 6-8mm.....Were your batts are parreleld i would heat that up with a torche too ! Get the torche , its the only way for me..... I knew your boats electrical was restricted.... :thumbup:

Bigbore
03-28-2011, 05:46 PM
I have a propane torche but I have never tried to use it for electrical soldering. Don't it burn the wire insulation sheat?

rearwheelin
03-28-2011, 11:01 PM
I have a propane torche but I have never tried to use it for electrical soldering. Don't it burn the wire insulation sheat?It will hardly hurt the insulation. Stretch insulation back a hair, you may get a little white chaar on surface of insulation but it will wipe off. I bet you allready have pleanty of solder on you conections, hit them with the torche to make them better.....you will see !