leopard vs tacon motors

[the savy fluxer]

are tacon and leopard motors made by the same people same quality?
saw them on hobbypartz.com.
thanks.

[iamandrew]

you might have to be the test dummy for us !
I just thought id fork out for the leopard 4074 2200 KV, the specs look the same though for both types

[siberianhusky]

They seem to use the same data sheets with a different logo at the top.....

[dag-nabit]

Interesting, I logged on this morning to ask the very same question. Great minds think alike. :thumbup1:

I have done several internet and forum searches and the general opinion is that these motors might be manufactured by the same company, just badged differently. There is plenty of discussion whether or not there is any difference in quality relative to price, but I haven't found a definitive answer.

In most of the reviews I've seen, the reviewer seems to draw the conclusion that Tacon motors are pretty decent, for the price point, but none of them have been long term reviews providing the ability to determine how Tacon motors stand the test of time.

So.... Has anyone ever determined for certain if Tacon vs Leopard vs ???? are the exact same motors badged differently? Anyone ever had the opportunity to dissect a couple to compare the internals??

Or... Has anyone had the opportunity to run a Tacon and Leopard side by side long enough to form an comparative opinion on quality and reliability??

Thanks
Kevin

[Make-a-Wake]

Here's a vid of a Tacon motor test against a Velineon motor and an EZ run........the Velineon is a larger motor and the Tacon hangs right with it. He posts all the logging data near the end........

jZ8mo-IY38g

[m4a1usr]

are tacon and leopard motors made by the same people same quality?
saw them on hobbypartz.com.
thanks.

Sure look the same from the outside. But its the price difference that has me wondering. Also when I recently ordered a 4074 Leopard I was sent the Tacon in its place. I asked the company why the substitution and they said the motors are identical. And they did offer me a full refund if I didnt like their sub motor.

John

[CaptPJB]

Sure look the same from the outside. But its the price difference that has me wondering. Also when I recently ordered a 4074 Leopard I was sent the Tacon in its place. I asked the company why the substitution and they said the motors are identical. And they did offer me a full refund if I didnt like their sub motor.

John

Same thing happened to me they sent a Tacon instead of a Leopard , I returned the Tacon and they are sending a Leopard ( hopefully not received yet!)

[JackBlack26]

A buddy of mine just bought a Tacon 3674 1700kv motor for $54 shipped. It looked good but without opening it who knows. For the price though it seems like a good deal. I'm going to order that same 1700kv motor here shortly to run in my MG. We'll see how it hols up.

[ray schrauwen]

Here's a vid of a Tacon motor test against a Velineon motor and an EZ run........the Velineon is a larger motor and the Tacon hangs right with it. He posts all the logging data near the end........

jZ8mo-IY38g

That motor in the video is their 2 pole motor for cars. The Tacon's you see "On Sale" are 2 pole motors like the one in the video.

If it doesn't say 4 pole in description it is a 2 pole motor.

The ones you see $46 for a 2860 or $54 for a 3674 may just be introduction prices.

I have a leopard 2845 and it looks identical to my pair of Tacon 2860 motors. The feel is the same, 4 poles and the specs are the same.

Looks like Tacon is Similar to Fine Design or Top Power in that they maybe had their own winds made up with their own label because of their success with their 2 pole motors???

Who knows???

When it thaws out here, then I'll know. :banana:

[the savy fluxer]

this is the motor i mean i belive it is a 4 pole is it the same as the leopard 4074 2000 kv?
http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m801-4074-2000kv.html

[Igoreski]

How do you tell if it is a 4 pole when it says nothing about it in the product description.I think it is because of the high watt rating and I can back trace the Leopard to the mfg website.The Tacons are untraceable so far.I would like the 2860-2730kv but I can't even find it in the US.Only China and AU.

[siberianhusky]

If they are labeled the same that is a 4 pole motor, LBP are the leopard 4 poles and that one is a LBP motor, exact same specs between the two. Might have to buy one to take it apart for a comparison.
My biggest problem is everytime I have some spare boat money the 40mm water jackets are out of stock here then I find something else neat to buy! I'm glad business is doing well but I want one! Grin. From a North American retailer!

[Igoreski]

I have the water jackets for my size.I am just wary because the price difference is so big.I am running the Fieago 380 8XL twins and pushing the envelope with these 2 pole 2900kv motors on 3s.They are fast and I have not had a problem but my data logger shows high amp spikes when I first punch it.I was looking to lower the KV to 2730 or 2550 and have 4 pole motors to lower the amp draw.My ESCs are 120amp and I run a stand alone BEC for the electrics so I think I am ok there.What do you think about switching to those.

[Brushless55]

Here's a vid of a Tacon motor test against a Velineon motor and an EZ run........the Velineon is a larger motor and the Tacon hangs right with it. He posts all the logging data near the end........

jZ8mo-IY38g

Interesting that he says this Tacon motor has more usable power vs Castle :Peace_Sign:

[keithbradley]

The motor in the vid is the earlier 2 pole 3650 (as someone mentioned) that they sold before they ever had the Leopard look alikes. I think the people that ordered a Leopard and received a Tacon probably ordered it when they first started selling the (leopard looking) Tacon line. For a while they actually had Leopards listed at 2 (very) different prices, and they later changed the picture for the cheaper version to the orange Tacon. If you ordered one before they got the ad right, I would say that's why you received a Tacon instead of a Leopard.

They could be the same exact motor, but they also could be the same design with cheaper parts. Some people claimed the Leopards used lower grade parts compared to castles...maybe the tacon is another step down version of the same motor:confused2:

[LaMoparPower]

i was one of those that ordered leapards... and recieved tacons.... and so far its been bushing my geico in the 60's conistently at low temps and no issues so far!

[Brushless55]

i was one of those that ordered leapards... and recieved tacons.... and so far its been bushing my geico in the 60's conistently at low temps and no issues so far!

Love to see a picture of your setup! :banana:

[Igoreski]

I ordered a set of Tacons with the discount code HPZ10.I had to try them at this price.The tech said they are 4 pole and the specs are the same as Leopard but the shipping manifest shows them shipping from another warehouse.We will see how they perform compared to the Fieago 2 pole motors I am replacing.

[JackBlack26]

i was one of those that ordered leapards... and recieved tacons.... and so far its been bushing my geico in the 60's conistently at low temps and no issues so far!

As brushless said, pictures of that would be appreciated. What kv motor on how many cells?

[Mel279]

did anyone mention about the Toppower motor?seem similar to leopard and Tacon
http://www.model-hobbies.com/ProductPicture-china/th/4082+Toppower+Motor-Toppower+4-Pole+Brushless+Motor+for+1%2f8+Cars+(TBP4082-1600KV)-261-500.jpg

[Alexgar]

thats what im talking about topower???

[Alexgar]

a cheap knock off or a better deal?

[Mel279]

I might gonna bought them for my twin drive setup:biggrin:

[ray schrauwen]

I've noticed the only real difference is quality control.

My Leopards are all nicely machined. The top power is not as perfect, as if they were seconds but, not in a way that would hamper performance, just asthetics and the alignment of holes for front plate. The top power had imperfections as if they slightly missed the mark on drilling holes.

[Alexgar]

thanks for your help ray, they all come from the same place more or less but everbody said the same about the reasonablly priced cc motors until they proved themselves now leopard is the new affordable powerhouse, evolution??

[Alexgar]

there so good we are talking about copies of copies of clones that now have clones??

[ray schrauwen]

I have a Castle 1717, beautiful motor. Might buy one more. They make great motors.

[Alexgar]

but nobody wanted to when they were a affordable alternative now they are a second standard right?

[Alexgar]

i own 3 1515s and the best i had before that wa a aq motor and a pb motor ohh was i lost?

[Alexgar]

2 best motors ive owned is a aveox 4 pole 70mm and a cc1515 power= more tham you need and quality , if i have to tell you get back to me in a year(4 motors later) nuff said

[Brushless55]

there so good we are talking about copies of copies of clones that now have clones??

or we could call them generations? :biggrin:

[Fluid]

We will see how they perform compared to the Fieago 2 pole motors I am replacing.

You will likley see a stronger low end right away, that's what I remember when I replaced my Hackers with Neus. That is due to the 4-pole construction versus 2-pole. Top end power will vary depending on prop choice. I would expect at least slightly better performance from the Tacons.

Dealing with the Chinese you never know what you will get. They will actually change parts to save $0.02 in order to recover their profit. Don't expect a 'way cheaper version of one motor to be the same as the "original". The difference may not be noticeable by the average boater, but total performance and life expectancy may be by more serious boaters.

The Feigao line is an example. Copied almost exactly from the Hackers they "looked" about the same, but we now know the mags are weaker and more fragile, the windings not quite as nice and the bearings were just above junk grade. But they performed well enough for the price and helped to lower the price of top-end motors too. I set several SAW records with Fiegaos just to prove they worked (but I had to upgrade the bearings). I do realize that had I used Hackers instead my records would have been at least 5 mph higher. Most owners would never know the difference if they never ran a Hacker.




.

[Igoreski]

What should I run for timing,I just stuck my 120a ESCs on the programmer and I was at 7.5 Deg. from last settings on the 2 pole motors.

[LaMoparPower]

Love to see a picture of your setup! :banana:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r208/swolecajun/2011-02-18172527.jpg

:thumbup1:

5s 40c turnigy's on an octura 642 s/b....

[ray schrauwen]

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r208/swolecajun/2011-02-18172527.jpg

:thumbup1:

5s 40c turnigy's on an octura 642 s/b....

Which motor?

[LaMoparPower]

2150 KV, 4074 TACON.... ill try to get some video tomorrow!

[the savy fluxer]

2150 KV, 4074 TACON.... ill try to get some video tomorrow!

that would be awesome!
:thumbup1:

[Brushless55]

that would be awesome!
:thumbup1:

:iagree:

[Alexgar]

ec5's i use em to great connectors

[LaMoparPower]

ok, got the video, 15-20 mph winds all day so never got to open her up and was stuck on a small pond... Highest i was able to see was 58.5

Like an idiot i forgot to de-rate the video quality so its 170mb... i tried posting it last night but had some issues.. ill try again tonight..

[LaMoparPower]

Dont mind the plumbers crack!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz3HdaV-qFs

[ray schrauwen]

Very nice. In Canada we call that a slight breeze ;)

[dag-nabit]

Very nice. In Canada we call that a slight breeze ;)

Not to nit pick the small details, but in Canada we call that a slight breeze... with -64*C wind chill :bounce:

Kevin

[G1ST]

I also ordered a Leopard 4074 - 2200 and got shipped a Tacon. I finally got an ESC to complete my electronics package and went to bench test my setup today. I calibrated the ESC to transmitter and that went fine. I pwer up the the ESC and get the proper flashes and beeps. When I hit the throttle nothing. I have swapped motor wire positions etc. I was able to get it to run once by holding about 1/4 throttle and spinning the collet by hand (like old school gas days) but that only worked once. Any ideas what I may be doing wrong or is it possible motor is bad?

Tacon 4074 - 2200
Castle Hydra 240
2 - 7.4v 5000 mah Nanotechs

PS Driveline is free.

Thanks for the help
Greg

[ray schrauwen]

Try solder joints on motor?

[G1ST]

I put new 5.5 bullets on motor today. They passed the "pull em real hard" test.
I can re solder them tomorrow.
Any thing else I can check?

Greg

[Basstronics]

I ordered the Tacon 4074 2150KV motors for my twin Miss Geico- $59 a piece.

I ordered the 4074 Leopard 2000KV motor for $59 way back when they first went to that price. They had pictured the Red/Pink motor but mine arrived green.

I thought I read somewhere that people got into trouble for selling Leopard motors bellow MAP? My guess is these people are now buying the same motors in different colors screened with a different name to be able to sell them at whatever price they like. Makes perfect sense.

Want to sell Leopards? Then its all the same price no matter who you buy them from. Or you can buy/stock 100 pieces of the same motor with your logo on it and sell them for whatever you like...

[G1ST]

Try solder joints on motor?

I just re did the solder joints on the 5.5 bullets I installed yesterday. They seem fine. Is there any chance the wires got hot enough to de solder something inside the motor can?
If I take the rear cover off of the motor is anything going to spring out at me ?
Thanks for the help
Greg

[m4a1usr]

I also ordered a Leopard 4074 - 2200 and got shipped a Tacon. I finally got an ESC to complete my electronics package and went to bench test my setup today. I calibrated the ESC to transmitter and that went fine. I pwer up the the ESC and get the proper flashes and beeps. When I hit the throttle nothing. I have swapped motor wire positions etc. I was able to get it to run once by holding about 1/4 throttle and spinning the collet by hand (like old school gas days) but that only worked once. Any ideas what I may be doing wrong or is it possible motor is bad?

Tacon 4074 - 2200
Castle Hydra 240
2 - 7.4v 5000 mah Nanotechs

PS Driveline is free.

Thanks for the help
Greg

Are you running 2S2P or 4S? Your not very clear on battery arraingment. That motor runs best on 4S. If your running 4S on the Hydra you should be running a Rx battery. Not using the internal BEC. So the red rx wire should be removed from the ex plug.

John

[G1ST]

Sorry
Yes I'm running 4S and a receiver battery with red wire disconnected from plug
Greg

[Basstronics]

Ok I just got my two Tacon Leopard clones...

I might be crazy but it does feel as if the magnets are not as strong and the Leopard. I am going to have the magnets gauss'ed to confirm or deny that theory. I hope to get that information by the weekend.

Whoever said the bearings are probably different deserves a prize.

The Leopard motor I have utilizes an NSK bearing, which is a good brand (for those that dont know). Leopard Bearing reads "Indonesia NSK 625Z"- which is NSK part number 625 ZZ (Z being shielded). Using a light weight oil the bearing is rated at a maximum of 43K RPM.

The Tacon bearing is labeled "Thailand NMB R-1650 HH". I cant say Ive ever heard of NMB ball bearings. In the industry I work in we use a LOT of taper roller bearings (Timken, SKF & rarely NSK). But I found them. Japanese company- so I would assume quality is good.

Here is a link to the manufacturer:
http://www.nmbtc.com/bearings/part-numbers/search/R-1650HH/5870

Here is NMB's full catalog (38 MB! beware):
http://pibsales.com/pdf/nmbcatalog.pdf

Spec for spec all I can compare is the dynamic and static ratings between both. NMB doest list a maximum RPM. In the ratings the NMB is slightly higher- but not enough to be different. Dynamic rating of (NSK vs NMB) 1730/1735 (Newtons) and Static rating of 670/671 Newtons.

The last thing noteworthy is in the preload spacers on the motors. The Leopard had one long one on the wire side and three smaller ones on the drive side. The Tacon just had one spacer each side. This leads me to believe more labor was spent makign sure the Leopard motor was aligned properly with the correct spacers.

The conclusion I will draw is this. Providing the NMB bearing is a true quality bearing I dont see any reason to panic. We will however need to see what this baby gauss'es at. I believe they are relatively close, but I think somewhat different.

[Basstronics]

Oh ya, pictures! Yes I took pictures for you guys!

Leopard:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/basstronics/RC%20Boats/LeopardCap-bearing.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/basstronics/RC%20Boats/Leopardinside.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/basstronics/RC%20Boats/Leopardrotor1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/basstronics/RC%20Boats/Leopardrotor2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/basstronics/RC%20Boats/Leopardrotor3.jpg

[Basstronics]

Tacon:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/basstronics/RC%20Boats/TaconCap-bearing.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/basstronics/RC%20Boats/Taconinside2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/basstronics/RC%20Boats/Taconrotor1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/basstronics/RC%20Boats/Taconrotor2.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/basstronics/RC%20Boats/Taconrotor3.jpg

[Igoreski]

Great job on the review,I have used the NMB bearings before and they are ok probably medium quality.The motor spacing Is off slightly on one of my Tacon motors allowing some movement of the shaft in and out similar to my Feiago motors the other is tight.I will see how these hold up with the QC not as tight as Leopard I still had to try them.The size I got were $34 per motor less.

[Brushless55]

very cool, thanks for the input and pitures!!

[the savy fluxer]

Great review!!!! finally the lowdown on this topic. pics were great also

[m4a1usr]

Oh ya, pictures! Yes I took pictures for you guys!

Leopard:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/basstronics/RC%20Boats/Leopardrotor3.jpg

From the pictures it looks like both the Tacon and Leopard rotors are carbon fiber wrapped but not like the CC/Neu motors. So that means they are no where near duplicates of CC/Neu motors coming off the same assembly line. Theirs look nothing like those 2 rotors. Those rotors look to be constructed just like the Feigao 580 rotors that were having issues either last year or the year before. I remember a problem with the rotors coming apart.


John

[m4a1usr]

Here is a picture of a CC/Nue 1515 1Y rotor. They look way different.


John


http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af218/m4a1usr/DSCN4407.jpg?t=1298944399

[Basstronics]

Im not sure of the materials used here.

Whats what and whats the difference. I mean I can see the leopard/Tacon rotors are black. Whats the white on the Neu?

[m4a1usr]

Im not sure of the materials used here.
Whats the white on the Neu?

The black wrapped rotors are carbon fiber but not sealed in epoxy. The CC/Neu rotors are wrapped in carbon fiber and have been set in epoxy. There is probably a final inspection process involved from the vendor who assembles the CC/Neu rotors, hence the lighter/ see thru color. And probably none for the black wrapped rotors since you cannot do a visual inspection when built as such. Maybe quality of inspection process, maybe the black carbon fiber is just cheaper. Who knows. But its obvious that the motors and their components do have varying degree's of differences right from just doing a visual. Hoping to hear good news from you about the magnet strength testing. :popcorn2:

John

[Basstronics]

Correct me if Im wrong here, but the magnents are in the rotor?

I was going to have them checked right thru the can on the motor. But maybe I should take each rotor in.

My only fear is the gauss will be so high the meters I know of wont be able to read.

[m4a1usr]

Correct me if Im wrong here, but the magnents are in the rotor?

I was going to have them checked right thru the can on the motor. But maybe I should take each rotor in.

My only fear is the gauss will be so high the meters I know of wont be able to read.

Yes. The rotors have the 4 magnets laid around the rotor shaft in between the aluminum end plates and seated with adheisive. Then are carbon fiber wrapped and set/sealed with epoxy to keep them in place. Then they get balanced.

The iron of motor is exterior of the rotor, where the copper wire runs thru. I would recommend if you want to get a good reading your going to have to remove the rotors to see an accurate measurements.

The field extending from these magnets doesn't reach far with any strength, because the smaller a magnet of a given intrinsic strength is, the smaller will be the volume of space it can fill with a magnetic field of a given strength. Magnetic field strength drops off as the inverse cube of the distance from the magnet, too; get twice as far away and the field strength drops by a factor of about eight. So 2 of these guys barely notice each other over a distance of more than an inch or so. Yet put them too close to each other and look out! Thats why the air gap on these guys is so close. But since I have no experience with measuring magnetic influence, maybe someone will chime in and it will be fine leaving them assembled.

John

[Mel279]

Ok I just got my two Tacon Leopard clones...

I might be crazy but it does feel as if the magnets are not as strong and the Leopard. I am going to have the magnets gauss'ed to confirm or deny that theory. I hope to get that information by the weekend.

Whoever said the bearings are probably different deserves a prize.

The Leopard motor I have utilizes an NSK bearing, which is a good brand (for those that dont know). Leopard Bearing reads "Indonesia NSK 625Z"- which is NSK part number 625 ZZ (Z being shielded). Using a light weight oil the bearing is rated at a maximum of 43K RPM.


my 4082 Toppower motor's bearing also have the same as leopard