Soldering wires on turnigy motor.Help

[maxmekker]

Well I'm having a hard time getting the solder to grip the masive wires on this turnigy motor. I thought I'd replace them with some softer ones I had, and in the same time make them longer. So I just cut and started,but no luck. Any tips on how to make this work. Any cleaning fluid I could use ore another type of solder ?
All I had now was ironside.

[Doby]

A good RMA Flux would probably help, I use it and it eats its way through almost anything.
Just be sure to clean off the residue afterward as it is corrosive.

Steel wool can help as well, but a good flux is your best bet.

[maxmekker]

I have some flux , but it won't grip no matter what. I spread the cabels and I removed the 'residue' but no luck. Will take it to work tomorrow and try a small torch lamp on it.

[maxmekker]

Got a pm that I should try to heat asprin tablets and dip the cabel in that. will try.

[JimClark]

probably coated wire

[Alexgar]

acid flux?

[ray schrauwen]

NO!

You are trying to strip MAGNET wire and it has a VERY tough coating on it. You would need to unwind the wires individually and either take a hobby knife to scratch/scrape it off or sand it off.
You can also use heat to burn it off but, that messes with the coppers strength.

Actually, in hind sight, this is not a regular practice on these types of wires exiting an outrunner because they are the WINDINGS of the motor!!

Changing the length changes the Kv of the motor slightly, they should never really be cut as you have done.

That said, you have cut them, for a purpose of thicker wire??? nevermind.

So what to do now. I would strip the wires as suggested and you will know if you have cleaned them enough because normal 60/40 with resin will stick no problem.

Please ask first next time.

Leopard motors also use the windings as hook up leads on 4074's 5692's etc....

DON'T CUT THEM!!!

[ray schrauwen]

Got a pm that I should try to heat asprin tablets and dip the cabel in that. will try.

Never heard of this but it might work. Test it on the waste wire you cut off first.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Yep, Acid flux seems to help a lot.

[ray schrauwen]

Yeah it will work, and keep on working. Acid flux was never designed for electronics but, if you can make it work for you, all the better.

[ManuelW]

@ ray schrauwen:

Where do you have this information from: "Changing the length changes the Kv of the motor slightly" ???

Because now I have some successfull years in FE racing but never heard of that before, I also can't imagine how this could have a physical reason.

Best regards,
Manuel

[maxmekker]

thanks 4 the info, just wanted to replace the stiff wire( inded a part of the winding) with a softer, (same length) wire so I could better wrap it arround inside the hull. It's only a 20$ motor so I'm not devistated if it will not work, still a month ore so before the ice on the water will let go here in Norway, so I still have time to get another one. I will clean one by one and try again.
Thanks for the info folks.

[ray schrauwen]

Well, it's kind of basic. The wires cut are winding wires. Shorten them and the Impedence changes for each winding you cut. If not cut accurately enough, windings will differ slightly in impedence therefore not only giving you a different KV but, also take the windings out of balance as the original wire lengths before winding are set exactly the same.

I don;t know how much difference it will make or if it will be noticeable. I am mearly letting you know what is happenning when you cut lead wires that are actually winding wires.

If it was just normal 10 Guage extension wires it would not matter, that is not magnet wire.

[ManuelW]

Sorry but I just can't agree to that. I can agree, that the wires between motor and ESC's should have the same length. But what about normal wire and "magnetic" wire?
Hopefully its all just pure copper, beside the fact that its enamelled copper wire.

Best regards,
Manuel

[ray schrauwen]

Sorry but I just can't agree to that. I can agree, that the wires between motor and ESC's should have the same length. But what about normal wire and "magnetic" wire?
Hopefully its all just pure copper, beside the fact that its enamelled copper wire.

Best regards,
Manuel

Whatever, It is all copper but magnet wire, when in a bundle as in the windings of any BL motor, each wire does not conduct with the one beside it.

Prinz,

You are correct, the battery output can vary a great deal with temperature. Sometimes I forget that here is sunny southern California, the temperatures are usually a bit warmer than the rest of the country. Here I get 2.8 volts per cell from my A123 cells, but in colder climates you may only get 2.6 or even 2.5 volts per cell.


As per Lucien of Scorpion...


WBFAir,

If this is your first larger helicopter I would highly recommend that you do not get the HK-2221-6 motor. You would be much better off using the HK-2221-8 motor. Using the -6 motor would be like putting a blown Hemi in a Drivers Ed car! Don't get me wrong, the -6 motor is awesome for experienced pilots, but it is actually too much power for a newer helicopter pilot.

The -8 motor with a 12 tooth pinion gear is a great place to start, and when you get more comfortable with the helicopter, you can step up to a 13 tooth pinion gear for more head speed.

The Scorpion motors are Outrunner type motors, where the entire outer can of the motor rotates. The stator winding sit stil in the middle of the motor, and the magnets, which are glued to the inside of the rotor can, spin around the stator.

It is best not to cut the lead wires on the motors, since they are the actual wires that the motor is wound with. These wires are tinned at the factory to remove the insulation from the wire before the bullet connectors are soldered on. If you cut the wires, you have to individually re-tin anywhere from 32 to 40 wires per lead, which means a total of 96 to 120 wires that need to be tinned! If you miss one or two, this can lead to current imbalances in the motor, so you are better off leaving the motor leads alone.The ESC leads, on the other hand, can be easily shortened if needed.

Your battery ESC and BEC sound well matched for the -8 motor. The -6 motor can pull over 53 amps of current in very hard 3D maneuvers, but you will probably not be pushing it that hard for a while.

If you have not purchased the motor yet, I would go with the -8 model and keep your existing ESC.

Lucien
I'm done in this thread. It's not about theory really, of which i am right, sorry. :sorry:

[LuckyDuc]

I ran into the same problem with trimmed motor leads. I used a 280 watt iron and 60/40 solder. The coating burned right off of the strands in about 5 seconds and the solder flowed perfectly. Most motor manufacturers use a solder pot to do the same thing.

The lesson here is to not trim off the factory tinned lead.

[Alexgar]

that a huge iron ive found my 80 watt is more than enough to solder 10ga wire

[Insaniac]

The antique radio guys use Strip-X (probably no longer sold), "Zip Strip" -- methylene chloride or Easy Off oven cleaner to strip the enamel coating on magnet wire.

[6sHyper]

yeah Ray is right you cannot cut the wires on those outrunners because they are a part if the internal windings. If you want them longer you should be extending your esc wires not the motor wires.

[ray schrauwen]

At this point he would be best to shorten all the wires on the motor as accurately as possible, clean off the Varnish by whatever method and then add the wire he wants.

If you were planning a twin, I would just buy a new motor and use this for something else.

[maxmekker]

It's going into my surge crusher with a cheap HK-B125A
esc from hobbyking. I will have a go at it ,and se if it's a go ore blow. Thanks

[ray schrauwen]

You should be fine.

[JackBlack26]

I don't know if its been mentioned but plumbers flux works wonders on wire like that. That's what I use to clean all my solder joints before tinning them, after having the same problem you are having. Not any more.

[ray schrauwen]

That is acid flux.

[maxmekker]

well, I have just done some sanding with fine sanding paper, one lead at the time, no luck.
got hold of some aspirin,but I did not get it to melt 100% outside, but I got some liquid and
dipped the wires in, but again no luck. more soldering tomorrow.

[maxmekker]

a little dremeling did the trick. All god ( well , I' know when the ice is gone)
thanks for watching

[ManuelW]

@ Ray:

First you mix up a few expressions. For the "Impedance" because of shortened motor wires. Yes the motor wires are made out of the same wires as the internal winding inside. But the outer part doesn't affect the impedance or the kv of the motor. Impedance is a physical parameter for a coil (defined by No. of windings and some other stuff which doesn't need to be mentioned here). Second thing is that the complete winding is within the back iron of the motor. When you change the length of the motor wires it has nothing to do with the impedance. Therefore it just has an effect on (ohmic) resistance.

If the wires have not the same length (has to be more than a few cm !) I can imagine it might result in problems of commutation, still not changing kv.

And the Scorpion system justs says that they don't recommend it because the danger is, that its done improperly and therefore resulting in problems. Not any word that it will cause ANY problem when done properly. The statement with many single wires that have to be tinned is true. And I agree, its a lot of sh*t work when you want to get it done well. But my point of view: When cutting the wires, the cutting surface itself is already free of the enamel coating. It might not be optimal but even when at one wire the coating is still there, at this small area every wire should have "contact".

I don't recommend to shorten the motor wires at is a whole lot of work, but not because you get any problems even when its done properly.

Hope my explanations are understandable, I know it may be a difficult topic but I tried and it took me some time to learn about it as well.

Best regards,
Manuel

[ray schrauwen]

@ Ray:

First you mix up a few expressions. For the "Impedance" because of shortened motor wires. Yes the motor wires are made out of the same wires as the internal winding inside. But the outer part doesn't affect the impedance or the kv of the motor. Impedance is a physical parameter for a coil (defined by No. of windings and some other stuff which doesn't need to be mentioned here). Second thing is that the complete winding is within the back iron of the motor. When you change the length of the motor wires it has nothing to do with the impedance. Therefore it just has an effect on (ohmic) resistance.

If the wires have not the same length (has to be more than a few cm !) I can imagine it might result in problems of commutation, still not changing kv.

And the Scorpion system justs says that they don't recommend it because the danger is, that its done improperly and therefore resulting in problems. Not any word that it will cause ANY problem when done properly. The statement with many single wires that have to be tinned is true. And I agree, its a lot of sh*t work when you want to get it done well. But my point of view: When cutting the wires, the cutting surface itself is already free of the enamel coating. It might not be optimal but even when at one wire the coating is still there, at this small area every wire should have "contact".I don't recommend to shorten the motor wires at is a whole lot of work, but not because you get any problems even when its done properly.

Hope my explanations are understandable, I know it may be a difficult topic but I tried and it took me some time to learn about it as well.

Best regards,
Manuel


I agree with almost everything you say. Impedence will change minimally resistance more so.

Yes the end of the wire is fully able to accept solder but, very poor connection.

Looks like we both know what is best. There really is no need to cut motor wires of this type though since they are very rigid, they stay away from the rotating can easier.

[maxmekker]

Good thought.
(There really is no need to cut motor wires of this type though since they are very rigid, they stay away from the rotating can easier.)