First boat, Delta Force 35" Pirate

[millzee]

I have wanted a rc nitro boat ever since I was a young child, about 9 months ago I thought I'd get myself a Monster truck so I could learn about nitro engines before just throwing a boat in the water and stalling it out in the middle of the lake and so forth. I have gotten right into the hobby and after getting sick of people talking to my wife about the noise of my truck, I reluctantly decided to convert it to electric. The thought of missing the smell and sound of the engine soon faded during the first run after the conversion, the power, quietness and conveinence of an electric motor have increased my enthusiasm for the hobby even more and I can say after 25years wanting a nitro rc boat, I know now, I will never have one.
I was looking into the Spartan but after waiting months on end and reading the forums I then started looking for a RTR boat, the DF32" Cyberstorm caught my eye but then I found out it'd be a month or two away so started toying with the idea of putting a FE boat together myself. After lot's of reading and searching the web I have made my mind up on the Delta Force 35" Pirate. Any Help through my build will be appreciated, I lack confidence in my own decisions in these areas and would appreciate it anyone would point out any tip's, trick's or anything that may assist me through my first build. I learnt quickly with the truck that newbie errors can be costly and I really want to get this boat right. This is to be a "basher" build, I doubt I'll ever race, I wouldn't even know where to find a race, I just want to fly around on our lake.

So far I've put together shopping cart list's, read up more, changed my list and it goes on, I beginning to think I could continue like this forever so I'm going to bight the bullet and order the following:

Delta Force Pirate 35" Boat Hull - White -

Speedmaster Stinger Strut
Prop Shaft Size: - Stinger for 3/16" Propeller shafts -

Speedmaster Billet CNC Aluminum Tabs

Speedmaster Dual Pickup Tapered Rudder Assembly
Rudder Style: - 5" Set Back

One set Metal Turn Fins, medium.

Teflon Liner for .187 flex cable

Hughey .187 Assembled Cable for 3/16" Propellers
hughey .187 length: - 18" cable & shaft total length

Octura Coupler Flex Hex 5mm to .187 Cable

Octura Large Drive Dog for 3/16" Prop Shafts

Octura Brass Bullet Nut for 3/16" shaft

K & S Brass Tubing
tubing size: - 9/32" Diameter pn#132

Octura Auto Bailer

OSE Large 1/4" Tubing (3')

Gundert Water Pickup
gundert pickup: - 4191 3mm

Hatch Lift Nut - Large

Servo Mounting Stand Up Standard Size

Dubro Waterproof Pushrod Seals

Futaba 1.0" Long Servo Arm

Great Planes 4-40 Linkage Rod

Du-Bro E/z Connectors 4-40

Du-bro Swivel Ball Link 4-40 w/Hardware

Rubberize-It Grip Dip Coating
color: - Black
Pacer Z-Poxy 2 Part, 30 Minute Epoxy
Pacer Z-Poxy Finishing Resin
DuBro Epoxy Brushes
3m 1" Wide Velcro
AquaCraft Speed Grease by Grim Racer

Im going to run the Castle 1717 1580kv on 6s 40c 5000mAh, Im not sure if to use 6s1p or set up the hull for 6s2p. I'll use the traxxas water proof servo with a spectrum Mr3000 and Dx3s telling it what to do. Im still a little unsure on the Esc, Im guessing the swordfish 240 or could I get away with the seaking 180?:help:
Im also :confused1: when it comes to prop's, I want an efficient set up to start me off, once I get my head around things I will play around more but Im guessing a x445, x447 or x450, what would give me cool trouble free running?
Let me know if Im on the right track and of these last few things so I can get my order in.

Thanks, Danny:noidea:

[CharlieBucket]

Danny,
I am building the same boat, same hull, same motor. I'm not quite as far along as you, but from what I've picked up from a thread I posted a couple days ago, the 180 amp esc will work. I'll post a couple links to other builds.
I look forward to seeing how your project comes along.

[CharlieBucket]

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=21587

[CharlieBucket]

This is the link to my post.
I hope some of these guys help you out.
Good luck, and have fun!

[steveo]

if it were me i would stay away from the water proof traxxas on boats only because they have plastic gears and it a fairly large boat, get a hitec 645 metal gears not water proof but the price is right

[Fluid]

First, welcome to the world of FE boating! There is a lot of fun to be had, and a lot of challenges too.

I would re-think the motor choice, especially for a first boat. It will run well on 4S but 6S will let you use a lower amp draw. Several club members have slightly larger vees, and they run the Neu 1527/1Y with a Kv of 1250. On 6S they are around 60 mph, plenty for that hull and with reasonable run time - this is really a competition setup. The higher Kv of the Castle motor will stress your electric components even more, I don't recommend it.

For a budget motor the Leopard 4082/1250 Kv motor would be a better choice IMO. I have a couple Leopard motors and so far they've worked well. Others on OSE like them too. They are not quite Neu motors in performance or price, but they seem to be a reasonable low-cost replacement with good quality.

6S1P will reduce the run time and will stress the ESC more, but it is doable with the 1250 Kv motors. IMO if you want to run 1P, go to 6500 mAh 35C cells. You are more flexible running 2P.

More amperage capacity is better as far as the ESC is concerned. I have no experience with the Chinese controllers so I can't recommend them.

For that size hull a 45mm prop is on the small side, but with the 1580Kv motor that's a place to start. With a 1250 Kv motor the x450 is a good place to start. You can probably go on up to an x455 with the latter motor, depending on the run time you can accept.

I have yet to strip the plastic gears on any servo in an FE boat - in over twenty years of racing. Nothing wrong with metal gears, but stick to quality servos like HiTec or Futaba. I have gone to digital servos like the HS-5645 in most of my race boats, but the old standard HiTec HS-645MG is hard to beat.

.

[LarrysDrifter]

On the servo-I dont think one needs or could benefit from a metal gear servo in a mono.They turn very well on their own.I think you can save your money and run the Traxxas servo and save the metal gear (and high torque) for cats and hydros.This may not be a fact,but this is my opinion from running my own boats.

[LarrysDrifter]

And always listen to Fluid-he is one of the most knowledgeable people here.

[Make-a-Wake]

The 1717 won't like 6s1p, go 2p. An x447/x448 should push you close to 60.

[Rich]

Welcome to the forum Danny! You will find a ton of info for you build on this forum. So you got the white hull? I was going to order that one soon! Oh well guess ill have to pick a different color...As for Fluids advice, I would most defiantly take it. He is one of the best; he helped my mean machine hit 57mph. Anyway back to your build, the leopard motors are very good for their price. I used the 4074 2200kv to hit that speed. IMO you could use a leopard 4082 1500 kv on 5s2p for a reliable and fast setup.

[keithbradley]

Danny,
I am building the same boat, same hull, same motor. I'm not quite as far along as you, but from what I've picked up from a thread I posted a couple days ago, the 180 amp esc will work. I'll post a couple links to other builds.
I look forward to seeing how your project comes along.

If you plan on running 6s with that motor, I would run the SF 240HV. With that motor, at that RPM, its easy to pull current at the high end of whats acceptable for the T-180. Add to that the fact that you would be running it at maximum voltage.

In my opinion, its worth leaving a little bit of room and not running everything at absolute max. You will spend less time/money replacing parts in the long run.

[johnson22456]

I think the pirate hull is a great choice. I received mine from Steve last week, and just love the design of this hull. Heres some pics next to my df33 to show the differences in the hulls.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm199/johnson22456/photo11.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm199/johnson22456/photo10.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm199/johnson22456/photo9.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm199/johnson22456/photo8.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm199/johnson22456/photo12.jpg

[LarrysDrifter]

That new Pirate sure looks good.The "windshield" looks nice too.Maybe we can get together some time and run?

[johnson22456]

That new Pirate sure looks good.The "windshield" looks nice too.Maybe we can get together some time and run?

You mean run into each other again. Thats where the damage to the front of my df33 came from. Your cyberstorm took the worst of it, RIP.:Sinking:

[LarrysDrifter]

That was the best thing to ever happen to that junk hull.I way way over paid for it and am glad to see it ended up where it did-the dumspter.

[Chuck E Cheese]

ok a few comments:
1) dont use an auto bailer. it is just another hole in the boat and they fail often. if built right water inside the hull is not an issue. fe's run dry inside (maybee a few drops) and if you have enough water for the bailer to work, you have bigger issues to fix.

2) the rudder you are looking at is HUGE... 6 1/4 long, make sure you cut it down.... and the dual water pick-up is probablly not necessary... the 21 mono rudder is recomended and it is 5 1/4" long and still probablly needs to be cut..

3) i know fluid knows his stuff but i use metal gear servos in all my builds. waterproof is not an issue (remember they are dry inside). cheap insurance as i have had plastic gears fail.

4)445, 447, 450 are all going to get you 50mph of more and that is fast for a first boat... prop it small at first (445) to get the hang of it. boats like to run at full throtle, otherwise the on-off throtle builds heat in the esc (it s a switch, at partial throtle it basically goes on-off-on-off-on-off=heat).

5) ruberize grip dip just makes a mess and there is no need for it anywhere. remember the dry thing....

therwise you are on to some good times

[LarrysDrifter]

Well said,Chuck.

[millzee]

thanks heaps for the info, I'll take that advice and run with it, although I already have 2x c/c 1717's on there way, one for my truck and one for this boat, so I'll have to give it a try and see how it goes. I'll keep you posted on how I'm going and hope for lot's more great advice along the way.:thumbup1:

[Chuck E Cheese]

i think the 1717 will be ok but it will want 2 x 6s for 8000mah or more. 5000mah (1p) just isnt enough for the big motors. i am planning a build (possably this hull or a 40") with a 1717 and am going to stack it with 6s 10000mah

[millzee]

cool, 2x 6s 40c 5000mAh it is then, I just received three of them in the mail today, I'll get another three on order. I just went to hit the go button on my order and the white one has gone so yellow it is, am I able to paint the hull without too much trouble?

[Chuck E Cheese]

yes you can but nothing beats the factory gel coat.

[millzee]

well the Order has been confirmed and payed for.
I made a few changes to the order following all the advice. Can't wait to see it all arrive in the mail so I can start the build.:thumbup::bounce::rockon2:

[Rich]

:doh:down to one hull ..... bummer Steve we are going to need more! :w00t:

[DISAR]

I have a DF35" with NEU1521 1y (1577kv) , 6s2p total 6600mah, turnigy HV240A, 447/3 cut to 445/3. Very happy with it, 63 mph, everything is cool and it is the best motor I have tried on it.

[Rich]

I think the pirate hull is a great choice. I received mine from Steve last week, and just love the design of this hull. Heres some pics next to my df33 to show the differences in the hulls.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm199/johnson22456/photo11.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm199/johnson22456/photo10.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm199/johnson22456/photo9.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm199/johnson22456/photo8.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm199/johnson22456/photo12.jpg

Hey johnson22456,
What trim tabs did you use for the Pirate? Can you give me the part number?

[johnson22456]

I got them right here from Steve.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ros-spdt-150

[Rich]

Thanks! I thought those were the ones!

[Rumdog]

That's a BIG 2 inches!

[millzee]

Newbie question for the day: Will this hull need any strengthening? I have been reading up and I see a lot use CF and so forth, will this hull be good to go or should I look into this further?

[rearwheelin]

You mean run into each other again. Thats where the damage to the front of my df33 came from. Your cyberstorm took the worst of it, RIP.:Sinking:What rudder are thoughs ? Looks like they are the one from OSE with 3'' of set back. I like them ! Do they have teflon bushings in them and is slop minimal on them......Still deciding what to throw on my Rico 31......Thank you !

[rearwheelin]

Newbie question for the day: Will this hull need any strengthening? I have been reading up and I see a lot use CF and so forth, will this hull be good to go or should I look into this further?As long as your motor mount doesn't twist or flex the hull it should be ok, there are a-lot of diffrent ways to stregthen a hull... Many put the cf in and resin and make them beautiful works of art....Its probably fine....Does your boat have rails or strakes ? , if you have rails you should be fine......

[johnson22456]

I think the hull is sturdy enough in stock form, we layed a layer of fiberglass cloth in the hull and one on the hatch because we run our boats pretty hard.

The rudder is the one Steve sells. I really like them. The bushings are brass and there is minimum play in it.
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-80050

[rearwheelin]

I think the hull is sturdy enough in stock form, we layed a layer of fiberglass cloth in the hull and one on the hatch because we run our boats pretty hard.

The rudder is the one Steve sells. I really like them. The bushings are brass and there is minimum play in it.
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-80050
Thank you , I need to get one....

[millzee]

I managed to pick up a Dx3s (spm3140) TX only here in Australia for a good price and also a mr3000 so Im now ready to run once it all get's here and I get it all together.
How important is it to have an antenna outside the hull, I read someone had the antenna wire velcroed up under the hatch but he never went on to say how it went, can I get away with doing something like that?

[rearwheelin]

I managed to pick up a Dx3s (spm3140) TX only here in Australia for a good price and also a mr3000 so Im now ready to run once it all get's here and I get it all together.
How important is it to have an antenna outside the hull, I read someone had the antenna wire velcroed up under the hatch but he never went on to say how it went, can I get away with doing something like that?You can tape it to the underside of the upper deck, should be good.......alot of guys don't run a outside antenna.......are you running rails ?

[millzee]

I really don't know if it's got rails or not, Im yet to see the hull in person, I've ordered it from OSE, hope to see it soon. I suppose I'll just try a few antenna mount options b4 drilling any holes,
Thanks

[millzee]

been doing more reading and just wondering why OSE recommend using a seperate rx instead of a bec with the swordfish 240hv? I have rx batteries but was planning on using a castle creations bec, which way should I go? I'm just trying to gather as much info as possible so I can build it the day it comes in the mail.

[rearwheelin]

been doing more reading and just wondering why OSE recommend using a seperate rx instead of a bec with the swordfish 240hv? I have rx batteries but was planning on using a castle creations bec, which way should I go? I'm just trying to gather as much info as possible so I can build it the day it comes in the mail.
There are a couple reasons, first is safety , if your esc or the built in bec malfunctions you could have a runaway boat with no steering and you could injure somebody. Second are built in failsafes on your radio work as long as you have a dependable powersource supplying them......sometimes the motors amp draw can be enouph to cut power to an esc's built in bec and shut you down.....Runing high c rating lipos is best to avoid voltage drops ....

[Rumdog]

The hv 240 has no built in bec. A castle bec or rx pack will work fine.

[millzee]

I finally started receiving some gear today, I got the mr3000 and DX3S. I deceided to throw a stand together, could anyone with a hull of similar design tell me if it'll sit well on this stand b4 I glue and paint it?

[rearwheelin]

Looks good ! It has a big and stable foundation , looks like alot of work ! After building my new dog a big dog house I threw together a stand for my 31'' Rico. Designed it so it could fit along side all my crap on the work bench and not bump the nose on anything, took me about a half hour to make ! Best stand I ever built !

[millzee]

well I got all my gear today except for the 9/32 brass tube, everything else look good. Im thinking of putting some foam filler in the nose, about an inch or two and then stuffing it with pool noodles for floation. I feel like the hull is a tad weak to hold nearly 1kg of batteries so Im thinking that I may have to strenghten the bottom, should I just make some rails and add some fibre cloth or what do I do? please give me some tips or good links.

[rearwheelin]

I would strengthen hull to be on the safe side......If you would prefer not to do rails might I recomend a motor mount like this....They are 6'' long and 3'' wide and will handle all 1500 series type motors and a 1717 with out a water jacket , but for you I can make a slightly wider mount, the regulate mounts shown will probably fit a 1717 with a jacket but you might need to shorten the jacket a couple mm.( pic # 4). :beerchug:.........They are , perfect for your ap..

[Chuck E Cheese]

line it with carbon fiber and rails is the best but rails glassed in would probablly be sufficient
i line all of my hulls with cf, everything from a 13" gecko to a 51" gas rio...

[millzee]

I have a few ideas on my set up but would like some reassurance on which set up will work better, I think I know how I'll add support for each lay out but Im not to sure on a few things. eg. Would it make much difference to the motor if it's at a distance from the esc? Im planning on running seperate water in's and out for the motor and esc, would the waterflow be effected too much when travelling over the distance when placed up front? I'm a little partical to the motor up front and batteries in the middle of the cog, but I would nearly have to add wire for the esc-motor connection, from what I'm reading, I'm not sure it's much of an idea, and does the stuffing tube length come in to it at all, eg. too short/long? Please help me out and give me a few tip's, I just don't want to get too far started and find I'm heading in the wrong direction.:help:

[DISAR]

I would go with the first 2 photos, do the batteries fit on the sides and motor in the center? in case you need to bring the batteries aft.

[millzee]

the batteries wont fit up either side of the motor, there 6s and pritty chunky, I just tried with a piece of ply under the batteries lifting them so the stuffing tube could run under and I can move the motor back down a tad which would make the wires reach the esc, if I did that I may be able to move the batteries around more although would it make it a bit top heavy with the batteries sitting just under the hatch?

[Chuck E Cheese]

the one thing i will warn you about is that in my experience short stuffing tubes leak... i feel it needs to be atleast 4" from the trandsom. in pic #2 you are stuck, you can not bring the cog twards the rear if needed. make sure you leave your self room to adjust from 25% (to low) to 35% (to high). i run all my monos at 27-28%. i am partial to the forward motor placement but agree that it is not a good idea to add wire (it is like adding heat). i have done it on some riggers where part placement is limited but wouldnt recomend it with the 1717, shorter is better. the driveshaft and cooling lines dont care how long they are but the wires do.

i would try to go with something like picture #5 only bring the batteries and motor back and put the esc either in front or on the side of the motor.

in the example below i feel that the stuffing tube is to short. this boat takes on a little water every run and that is the only possable place it is coming in. i have only played with it a few times and need to find out what is going on but the best i can come up with is the tube is to short. i plan on lining it with paper towels and doing one lap to see if i can find a leak but am almost sure it is the stuffing tube. in the tub and under presure it doesnt leak at all. on the other hand the 2nd picture doesnt leak a drop with the stuffing tube beingn about 1 1/2" longer. also the longer the stuffing tube the straighter the shaft which = less friction (to a degree)

in my picture or your boat the battery on the port side and esc can both be moved for and aft to adjust the cog. this is just something you have to play with untill you find the right set-up. remember that there is no right or wrong way, just ones that work and dont work. the boat doesnt care about anything except the cog...

just my opinions

[johnson22456]

:iagree:

[millzee]

thanks mate, that's very helpful. I'll keep around now I have that advise and see what I can come up with thanks.

[DISAR]

since the batteries don't fit on the sides, chuck's advise is your only solution. just check the cog to be around 28-30% because this boat will go very fast! your setup should hit at least 60mph.

[millzee]

I got a start on it tonight, fitted the hardware to the best of my ability, I've had a few ideas now for the internal layout thanks to your comments, I'll have a crack at that tomorrow. Do you think I should cut the rudder just below the bottom water intake?

[Chuck E Cheese]

your rudder bracket looks long. typicaly the leading edge of the rudder should be even with the drive dog

[DISAR]

I think that your trim tabs should move a bit outwards, to have a distance between each other at least the prop diameter. but the typical situation- no space...

[millzee]

your rudder bracket looks long. typicaly the leading edge of the rudder should be even with the drive dog

I will get a 4" bracket, on the length of the rudder, should I just cut it off just bellow the bottom water intake, what do you think?

[millzee]

I think that your trim tabs should move a bit outwards, to have a distance between each other at least the prop diameter. but the typical situation- no space...

It amazes me that a hull that's 35"x 10 1/4" has so little space to mount the hardware, if it was only 1/2" taller in the transom I could have spaced them out a bit more. Im wondering if there is any very narrow trim tabs that will fit between the turnfins and the tabs I've put on?

[Chuck E Cheese]

i think the trim tabs will be ok.. alot of these hulls dont even need them. as for the rudder, i wouldnt go hacking it off right away. see what the others are doing with the 40" hulls and go from there. just remember you can always take more off but you cant put any back on..... cut it a little at a time.

[millzee]

Just a few pic's of more progress and a few questions that I need some clarification on. How much flex shaft should I expose between the stuffing tube and the motor coupler? Can the ESC be on any angle, what I mean is, is it ok to have it on the same angle as the hull or should I make a little stand and get it to sit flat? I think I should have plenty of room for battery adjustment to find the cog with this lay out, I plan on supports for the stuffing tube and maybe some thin ply under the battery area and then I'll fibre glass it all in place and strengthen, any suggestion b4 I do?

[millzee]

I need some clarification on. How much flex shaft should I expose between the stuffing tube and the motor coupler? Can the ESC be on any angle, what I mean is, is it ok to have it on the same angle as the hull or should I make a little stand and get it to sit flat?

[rearwheelin]

With .187 cable I would go no more than a quarter inch of space, a little more or less is ok too..... as far as an esc mount , no stand needed, any angle is fine as long as its secure..

[Chuck E Cheese]

up ti 1/2" is ok on the motor side between teh coupler and tube

[millzee]

With .187 cable I would go no more than a quarter inch of space, a little more or less is ok too..... as far as an esc mount , no stand needed, any angle is fine as long as its secure..

Thanks mate, I'm going away for the weekend for my sons birthday so I'll have to hold off the build for a few days, back into it on Monday and hope to be testing on the water next week end. I really appreciate the advise and answer to all my silly newbie questions.:thumbup1:

[millzee]

up ti 1/2" is ok on the motor side between teh coupler and tube

Thanks mate!!!:thumbup1:

[millzee]

The build is comming along well but I'm just not to sure how short I can make the 1717 motor wires? and the s/fish 240hv wires? I'm thinking I'll need to take about 3" off the motor wires and about 1 1/2" off the esc motor wires, is this ok to do? without running into soldering problems??:help:

[millzee]

The build is comming along well but I'm just not to sure how short I can make the 1717 motor wires? and the s/fish 240hv wires? I'm thinking I'll need to take about 3" off the motor wires and about 1 1/2" off the esc motor wires, is this ok to do? without running into soldering problems??:help:

Just wanna add one really dumb question, can the esc be mounted upside down eg. plate with sticker facing down?? sorry, I know it's silly but I just need to know.

[CharlieBucket]

Millzee,
I'm interested to see your progress. Do you have any recent photos?

[millzee]

Just wanna add one really dumb question, can the esc be mounted upside down eg. plate with sticker facing down?? sorry, I know it's silly but I just need to know.

anyone?

[johnson22456]

anyone?

It doesnt matter.

[millzee]

here's a few pic,s of how I'm doing, which of the esc posi's would you go for, if I put it across the front of the motor, I'll be able to put a flat section in and strap it down, if I put it up along side the motor I'll just velcro it in. This is why I need to know how short is too short on the wires? and if I can mount the esc upside down across the front of the motor.:help:

[millzee]

I just received my speedmaster 4" set back dual pick up rudder that I ordered from here in Oz and was shocked to find that $97 bucks was the price shipped. Damn hard to support local!!! I guess my impatience has cost me again. It fits a lot better and is almost in line with the dog drive.
I think I've answered my own question about the wire lengths from my last post but I would still like someone to let me know if it matters which way facing up on the esc?

[Chuck E Cheese]

no it doesnt, there is no top and bottom to the esc

[millzee]

no it doesnt, there is no top and bottom to the esc

:oTHANK YOU:o

[millzee]

a few things I got done tonight, made up a Esc mount that I will be able to lift up out of the way if I need to take out the motor or do anything to the coupler, I'm also hoping it'll act like a bit of a sheild for the esc. I installed the servo and made a plate out of perspex for the rx and battery, I'm a tad unsure what I'll do with the rx on/off switch at this point but I have a few ideas. Tomorrow I hope to install the water cooling system, battery straps, more floatation and wire it all up properly and get this ready for testing. All is going well now, the COG is somewhere between 26% and 33%, I'm not too sure how to work out the exact %. The boat with everything in it is weighing in at around 4.7kg's (10.3lb), should I care too much about that as I'm not really racing or anything? For the cooling lines, I'm thinking of running 2 copper pipe from just inside the transom, 1 up to the motor and one to the esc, I found some thread about the pop rivet outlets so I'll just use them.
A few quick question:confused1: comming off the copper pipe with silicone tube, I assume it'll go into the esc at the top, through to the otherside and then is it best to just loop it down to the bottom one or will it have a better effect to run it back across to the bottom inlet on the same side as the original inlet and then back out the other side making one side of the esc both inlets and the other outlets?

[millzee]

just a few more pic's

[millzee]

:help:the COG is somewhere between 26% and 33%, I'm not too sure how to work out the exact %. The boat with everything in it is weighing in at around 4.7kg's (10.3lb), should I care too much about that as I'm not really racing or anything? For the cooling lines, I'm thinking of running 2 copper pipe from just inside the transom, 1 up to the motor and one to the esc, I found some thread about the pop rivet outlets so I'll just use them.
A few quick question:confused1: comming off the copper pipe with silicone tube, I assume it'll go into the esc at the top, through to the otherside and then is it best to just loop it down to the bottom one or will it have a better effect to run it back across to the bottom inlet on the same side as the original inlet and then back out the other side making one side of the esc both inlets and the other outlets? or does this not matter?:help:

[millzee]

I got the cooling lines in today along with the servo boot. A few pic's so hopefully some of you guy's with experience may pull me up if I'm doing something wrong that I'll regret down the track.

[millzee]

I just made an adaptor and tested the water lines, all good, no leaks and seemed to handle a reasonable amount of pressure.

[rearwheelin]

Your doing a great job for your first build brother ! I us mt air compressor to pressure test, turn the dial down to 50 p.s.i. and us a drill bit to plug on end of your system and put a rubber tipped blower to blow into one of the hardlines..

[millzee]

I just weighed the boat in at 5.4kg's, this will be ok won't it? With that weight, I'm thinking the x445 but I've never had one of these things or had much to do with them so what would you think for prop choice?

[millzee]

I just weighed the boat in at 5.4kg's, this will be ok won't it? With that weight, I'm thinking the x445 but I've never had one of these things or had much to do with them so what would you think for prop choice?

sorry that's 12.1lb, same questions still need a couple of answers, please?

[rearwheelin]

She is on the heavy side , I think you should definatly start out with the m445. I would only run one pack if possible to lighten it up and add the second one latter for wieght reasons..I really like longer run times so if it were me 2 packs are best, just remember to keep the boat on plain and limit your stopping and starting, that is what will cause very rapid heat build up so try to limit that..There are a-lot of racers who's boats weigh that in order to handle rouph race water better.....

[millzee]

thanks for the reply, with that advise I think I might go and make a lighter weight motor mount and see what else I can do to put her on a diet.
Cheers.:thumbup1:

[millzee]

I've discovered my first newbie mistake, I went to remove the motor mount so I could make a lighter aluminium mount and found that I have got a heap of epoxy on the bottom of the bracket from when I installed the support ply, I guess that one will be staying and I'll just have to find some other weight saving options. Roughly how long would just the one 6s 5000mAh 40c lipo last in this set up?:cursing::o

[rearwheelin]

I've discovered my first newbie mistake, I went to remove the motor mount so I could make a lighter aluminium mount and found that I have got a heap of epoxy on the bottom of the bracket from when I installed the support ply, I guess that one will be staying and I'll just have to find some other weight saving options. Roughly how long would just the one 6s 5000mAh 40c lipo last in this set up?:cursing::o
It all depends how you run , 2 minutes to be safe.....When you recharge monitor how many m.a.h. it takes to charge them back. ....On a 5000mah pack I would only use 3500mah of it....

[rearwheelin]

Just a couple observations to save some wieght, change copper pipe to aluminum( aluminum is lighter than silicon tubbing) , get ride of plexi glass and mount reciever pack to the floor........I am not sure what the stuffing tube housing is full of, I hope not epoxy....lol

[millzee]

Thanks for taking the time to look my build over, I used the foam in a can to fill the stuffing tube tunnel so I can't imagine too much weight there. I was searching around the net last night and found some carbon tube that I think I will use to replace the copper cooling lines, if I have too much trouble getting it I will take your advise and go with the aluminium, I dunno how I would be able to remove the perspex? Im looking into more prop options, I'll get the m445 and maybe a few smaller lift props, speed is not really my main goal at this point, I'll be happy enough with a boat that gets around, doesn't catch fire or sink.

[millzee]

Im just testing in the bath tub and want to know, how low should this hull sit in the water? At the moment with the two 6s lipo's in it, with floatation the water comes up to the join seem(or a fraction above it) at the transom, the bow sits up nice and I can see how it'd take off quite well but due to never seeing one of these hulls stationary in water, I just don't know where the water line should sit(on average)?:help::confused:

[millzee]

Im just testing in the bath tub and want to know, how low should this hull sit in the water? At the moment with the two 6s lipo's in it, with floatation the water comes up to the join seem(or a fraction above it) at the transom, the bow sits up nice and I can see how it'd take off quite well but due to never seeing one of these hulls stationary in water, I just don't know where the water line should sit(on average)?:help::confused:

going through some pic's from no batteries in the first 2 and then just the one battery in the following three pic's.

[millzee]

going through some pic's from no batteries in the first 2 and then just the one battery in the following three pic's.

now with 2 batteries, one good thing I've found so far is that I have no leaks, yeah, I got something right:laugh:


These pic's of the boat as I have put it together, I will do a few things that have been suggested by rearwheelin (many thanks, if it wasn't for him, I'd be the only person posting in this thread) to lighten it up a bit. Could a few more of you experienced guy's offer a little help and advise also, I know I ask some of the dumbest questions, but hey, I've never even seen one of these things operate in person so I guess I've gone in completely blind, maybe I should have bought a rtr.

[johnson22456]

Looks like it's sitting nice. Weight isn't always a bad thing.

[CharlieBucket]

Millzee,
I appreciate the thread and pictures. It's been a big help in knowing where to go with my build. Please keep it up!

[millzee]

Looks like it's sitting nice. Weight isn't always a bad thing.

thanks for the tip, Im just wondering, what does your 33" weigh?

[johnson22456]

thanks for the tip, Im just wondering, what does your 33" weigh?

I would guess its around 10 pounds on a 1p setup.

[millzee]

I would guess its around 10 pounds on a 1p setup.

Thanks mate, that gives me a bit to work off, I have searched for boat weights for hours and can't find much, the same as trying to see how it should sit in the water, all pic's and video are either dry or going flat out.:thumbup1:

[millzee]

Millzee,
I appreciate the thread and pictures. It's been a big help in knowing where to go with my build. Please keep it up!

Thanks mate, I'm glad someone is interested, just be careful though, I'm not the person to get advice from, when I started this thread I was hoping the experienced boaters would chime in and help me out. Good luck with your build, I'll keep an eye out.:thumbup:

[Rumdog]

I would not worry about the weight at all. My 31" Rico probably weighs that much. A 35" mono running 2p is going to have some weight to it. You're going to want it too.

[millzee]

I would not worry about the weight at all. My 31" Rico probably weighs that much. A 35" mono running 2p is going to have some weight to it. You're going to want it too.

thanks mate,:thumbup1:

[rearwheelin]

Millzee, go with aluminum tubing, it will flow better, its just as light, it wont split and you can bend it:thumbup1:.....Also I hightly recomend puting some octura thrust washers between your stinger strut and drive dog ( 3/8 O.D. size).....Keep in mind when your drive shaft is under a load your cable will shrink slightly, the thrust washers will prevent the drive dog from diging into your strut.....Also keep in mind that the gap between your drive dog and strut is going to transfer allmost 100% of thrust up your shaft to your motor( causing heat buildup , friction and xtra drag) and also your motors angle plays a roll in handling when thrusting with shaft because thrust is determined by the motors angle...I setup my boats to thrust with the strut and I must use thrust washers. My opinion is the thrusting point on the strut or transom = equals a better balanced and better handling boat , this is only my opinion and this could draw some contriversary :)....If you decide to go this route keep in mind that you will still need a slight gap, about the thickness of a thumb nail or a single thrust washer... :beerchug:

[millzee]

thanks, I'll get some aluminum tube, a very funny (but dumb) thing I just did was burn out my specktrum 590 steering servo, I was goining out to calibrate the esc and I thought I'd check signal and so forth b4 I entered into the process and while wiggling the steering the servo seemed to be playing up, without looking at too much I give a couple of full lock turns only for the servo to lock back the other way and smoke started pouring out the top.:laugh::laugh:After unplugging the rx battery I realised the rudder was sitting hard up against the boat stand which the pissy 590 servo obviously couldn't handle the pressure:o I guess I get to buy a new servo after all, I have a couple of Hitec ht7955's in my truck so I think I'll pinch one of those and replace it when I get the urge to drive it again. that sucker will handle a 7.4 lipo so I'll save some weight there by swapping out the rx batteries, that'll give me over 350 oz torque, that'll nearly bend the rudder if I'm dumb enough to do that again. Or do you think I should just get the traxass high torque waterproof servo?

[rearwheelin]

I just bought 4 Hi-Tec 5645 servo's used...They are around $60 new appiece..168oz on 6v...They are strong enouph to handle my quad drive 43'' Conquest...If you want one I can give you one for $30 + ship..

[millzee]

I just bought 4 Hi-Tec 5645 servo's used...They are around $60 new appiece..168oz on 6v...They are strong enouph to handle my quad drive 43'' Conquest...If you want one I can give you one for $30 + ship..

thanks for the offer but it's too late, just got of the phone, I have both carbon and aluminium tube, a ht7955, 3/8 thrust bearing and some velcro straps arriving tomorrow, thought I'd put in a bit of local support and get shafted again.:thumbup1:

[rearwheelin]

Dam ! You don't mess around !...lol.....Sounds like you are going to be in the water one way or the other ! ....You must be on the other side of the world to be getting parts at this time :lol:

[millzee]

Dam ! You don't mess around !...lol.....Sounds like you are going to be in the water one way or the other ! ....You must be on the other side of the world to be getting parts at this time :lol:

I'm in Australia, I had to rush the call to get it done by 5.30pm

[millzee]

Well I've finally calibrated and programed the esc, I gave it a very quick (10sec) dry run just touching the throttle and all went well except the motor was spinning clockwise, so I swapped a couple of motor leads and then tested for about 30sec with the throttle just in a fraction and a couple of 1/4 bursts, all good, well if you don't count the smoking servo from my earlier stupidity:thumbup1:
Tomorrow when the gear gets here I will lighten it up a tad by switching out the water line tubes, replace the servo, add the battery straps and I guess I just have to make up a parallel lead, charge the batteries and select a prop, at the moment I only have two balanced and sharpened props, a x445 and a x450, should I give it a burl with the x445 or wait until I either sharpen and balance a x440 / 442 or get myself a few M series?(is it hard to knock of the tongue off on a x series, remember this question is comming from a bloke that had to buy a sharpened and balanced prop just to see what they look like:lol:)

[millzee]

I made up some cowl locks today, had to just use what I had, I hope they work, I can't see why they won't. The bloke I ordered the thrust washers from has sent me 1/8 teflon washers, they fit well on the shaft altough they stick out past the width of the stinger shaft, I asume shaving back the od of the teflon washers back down to the same diameter as the stinger od? This will be ok won't it?
Here's a few pic's of my shabby cowl lock's.

[millzee]

well I think I'm ready to through it in the water and test it, I might try tomorrow if the weater is good to me, I'll loctite all threads tonight and see how I go, I'll get the video camera ready so I can get some footage and maybe some of you pro's and help me to dial it in. I haven't changed the copper water intake pipes to carbon yet, I thought Id just see how it goes b4 getting into changing it all. I made up a front cowl lock that allows the rear to be lifted streight up without putting any stress on the front lock, (I found this out the hard way). I've made up the parallel lead and then had to shorten a few ends to make everything fit nice. I'm still a tad concerned with the drive shaft, please see attached pic's and let me know if the space at the coupler and the drive dog are ok and I'm gunna try the x445 to start off and see how it goes, any other recommendations b4 I wet this thing?:confused1:

[rearwheelin]

Your spacing at coupler is good, I thought you were going to use thrust washers, I can see that you have one , there should be 4......you might need to increase the space on your stinger and driive dog about 3mm since I don't recomend thrusting with your stinger with only a single thrust washer, should be 4 of them....

[millzee]

thanks again, thats the kind of help I need, I'll go and adjust it and put the other three on, I was wondering why they came in a pack of 4.

[rearwheelin]

I will uploar a photo, give me a moment..

[rearwheelin]

On this boat I am using .150 cable so the stuffing tube is closer....

[millzee]

a few pic's at test stage 1

[rearwheelin]

a few pic's at test stage 1
Looks good !............Use hatch tape too..

[millzee]

will electrical tape do the job? I've been hunting around town everywhere and think that may be my only choice for tomorrows test.

[rearwheelin]

will electrical tape do the job? I've been hunting around town everywhere and think that may be my only choice for tomorrows test.
Electrical tape will be fine. Hocket tape is what I use, you can find it at a sporting goods store, It is allmost the same as hatch tape.....Good luck tommaro !

[millzee]

So I took the boat out this morning for her madden voyage and was suprised to see it sat quite nice on the water, a bit of tuning needed handling wise but otherwise ok until I bought her in to check temps after a 1-2minutes and noticed a bit of smoke as I opened the lid, it come from the stuffing tube near the coupler, I temped the tube close to the coupler at about 65c / 149f and noticed the teflon tube was a little damaged. Keen to run it a little bit more I just relubed the shaft and the result was a bad blow out of both stuffing tube and drive shaft, my bad!:doh: My question is, what would have caused the original shaft damage b4 I was silly enough to run it again? and How the bloody hell am I going to get the damaged tube and shaft out, where do I start and go from here?:help: I'll put the video footage together tonight and put it up for you to have a look at.

[keithbradley]

It looks like it was possibly caused by cable whip, which comes from:
~ Too much exposed cable between the tube and coupler
~ No support on the front of the stuffing tube
~ Improper motor to stuffing tube alignment
~ Wonky coupler or motor shaft (not that common)

Whats around the stuffing tube? (I know it was mentioned once in teh thread but its a large thread...

[millzee]

I noticed the shaft was off to the left only a micro fraction when installing the coupler, I didn't think it'd matter too much, wrong again I see.
The stuffing tube has a ply wedge under , the two you can see along the sides all glassed in, then I put foam in a can to fill the hole, cut it back to shape and then glassed over it for support for the batteries, any suggestions?

[millzee]

I noticed the shaft was off to the left only a micro fraction when installing the coupler, I didn't think it'd matter too much, wrong again I see.
The stuffing tube has a ply wedge under , the two you can see along the sides all glassed in, then I put foam in a can to fill the hole, cut it back to shape and then glassed over it for support for the batteries, any suggestions?

does this mean I'll just have to cut it all out and start again?:confused1:

[keithbradley]

does this mean I'll just have to cut it all out and start again?:confused1:

I would cut out the top of your stuffing tube tunnel with a cut off wheel and remove the old tube that way. Then you could grind it down and start over, or place a new one in and glass back over, depending on how you want to go at it.
I think tightening up the distance between the coupler and tube will help. It looks like it was whipping around and wearing the stuffing tube down before it broke. The other possability I considered was the coupler being a bit loose adn allowing some slippage, which in turn would heat the cable. If the cable were heated enough, it would easily break. I dont think this was the case though, based on the way that tube is hogged out at the end.

[rearwheelin]

Thats the first time I have seen that ! Wonder if the motor was also tourqing the hull miss alligning too.

[millzee]

I guess I'll get my order in tonight and start the rebuild, this time focusing more on the stuffing tube. thanks for the advice.

[Chuck E Cheese]

i agree with keith. you have to make sure that the stuffing tube is supported well at the end as well as the motor supported well. this is why a motor that big needs support on the rear, so it doesnt move when spining 30k rpm. it may look good on the stand but put a load and high rpm on in and i can almost guarantee that your homemade motor mount is flexing. it looks like 1/8" bar stock which flexes alot. i truly believe that this motor mount is moving under power. when i build mine i will be using a williamson 1717 mount with rear support.

[rearwheelin]

Millzee , my question to you , was there anything other supporting your stuffing tube besides the spray in foam ? If spray in foam was the only thing holding the end of your stuffing tube then that is the cause.......build a solid support for the stuffing tube end, something that will not crush and smash like spray foam.....Your motormount looks good to me as long as it doesn't flex alot, motors are like gyros and wont wobble at the rate your stuffing tube is reamed out unless there is something majorly wrong and if that were the case I don't know how the motor stayed together.....I have had front only supported 1527's runnig 70+ and never any issues at all, make sure that if things are flexing that yor stuffing tube stays inline with your collet....

[millzee]

I finally got the footage loaded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK0ITqCORmQ
From this you'll see what happened, "stupidity" on my behalf. The boat was running wet but had I had the chance I was going to re-adjust the stinger as it was angled slightly down, I'll just have to rebuild and try again. What do you think?

[millzee]

I finally got the footage loaded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK0ITqCORmQ
From this you'll see what happened, "stupidity" on my behalf. The boat was running wet but had I had the chance I was going to re-adjust the stinger as it was angled slightly down, I'll just have to rebuild and try again. What do you think?

Whilst watching the vid I have noticed that both the first and the second run go for about 3minutes, it's amazing how quickly time flies when your having fun, I was planning on only 1-2minutes each run.

[millzee]

here's a few pic's of what the stuffing tube was, It also has a 4" ply wedge under it which cant be seen in these pic's, I had to stop digging as I went to use the dremel and the misses came out to the shed with a nasty mouthfull of words due to it being 1am here and the noise woke her up, I guess I'll have to cut the rest out tomorrow.:ThumbsDown01:

[rearwheelin]

here's a few pic's of what the stuffing tube was, It also has a 4" ply wedge under it which cant be seen in these pic's, I had to stop digging as I went to use the dremel and the misses came out to the shed with a nasty mouthfull of words due to it being 1am here and the noise woke her up, I guess I'll have to cut the rest out tomorrow.:ThumbsDown01:Doing the right thing , also I would stay away from insulating the stuffing tube because it could allow excesive heat buildup too.........Ha Ha Ha , your old lady gripes over boats too !

[millzee]

Doing the right thing , also I would stay away from insulating the stuffing tube because it could allow excesive heat buildup too.........Ha Ha Ha , your old lady gripes over boats too !

at least this new boat has got her off my back about the truck:laugh::lol:

I'm also using this oppatunity to redo the cooling lines, I'll swap the copper to aluminium and put in side outlets, when I ran it the other day with the rear outlets, I really had no idea if water was going through it until I pulled it out and blew the lines out. I've got a few idea's on how I'll try to do the tube now and I will make sure they have plenty of air around it, I will hopefully get it back in action tomorrow and ready for another run on the weekend.

[millzee]

here's a pic of the hull after I've dug out all that failed tube, I've left the bottom 5mm of ech bit of ply as I may use them for some support to the new tube. I have put a few pic's here to ask the question, am I on thr right track with this new tube, I've gone with the 1/4" tube and made a 7/32" bushing to go onto the front/coupler end, as one of you guy's suggested I've flared the end of the 7/32" bushing as I thought this was a great idea. The 1/4" tube goes through the transom and into the stinger as far as I can push it, I have bent the tube into shape as close as I think I can so when supported I can push the .187 drive shaft streight into the coupler, the shaft spins very easily but it does make a little bit of noise tapping the brass(I would assume the grease will fix that).
So before I start making up the supports for the tube I would love a bit of feed back as to how I'm going with this attempt.:unsure: oh, one more thing, willl ca glue be enough for the bushing or should I attempt to solder it?

[marko500]

All I did was use a little CA on mine and it has held ( i stink at soldering). Also put a short piece of shrink tube over the end of the stuffing tube and the cable near the coupler and then heat it carefully. It will act as a water seal and keep water from coming up the stuffing tube into the hull.
Mine makes a slapping noise when you turn it but once in the water under load it will be quiet and yes the grease will help too.
Also when you put the shrink tube in make sure the shaft is greased and inserted into the coupler so the shrink will shrink to the size of the flex and onto the stuffing tube. Make sense?
Sometimes I have a hard time explaining something, that's why I'm not a teacher! LOL

Mark

[millzee]

All I did was use a little CA on mine and it has held ( i stink at soldering). Also put a short piece of shrink tube over the end of the stuffing tube and the cable near the coupler and then heat it carefully. It will act as a water seal and keep water from coming up the stuffing tube into the hull.
Mine makes a slapping noise when you turn it but once in the water under load it will be quiet and yes the grease will help too.
Also when you put the shrink tube in make sure the shaft is greased and inserted into the coupler so the shrink will shrink to the size of the flex and onto the stuffing tube. Make sense?
Sometimes I have a hard time explaining something, that's why I'm not a teacher! LOL

Mark

thanks mate, that makes sense.:thumbup1:

[Chuck E Cheese]

looks good to me

[millzee]

so I've got the tube all glued in and lined up so the flex shaft slides into the opening of the coupler with no issues, the flex does have a little bit of resistance once it's about 1/2-3/4 of the way into the coupler before it hits the motor shaft, will this be ok? I hope it's all good, I am yet to glue the 7/32" tube bushing into place, I just wanted to make sure the gap was ok before glueing, should I extend it out a little bit to close the gap more or will the gap in the picture be fine?

[rearwheelin]

The gap is great !

[marko500]

:iagree: Gap looks fine, don't forget a piece of shrink tube to seal out water.

Mark

[millzee]

thanks guy's, I ended up adding an extra 5mm and strengthened the end of the stuffing tube by sliding a 5mm spacer of 1/4" onto the 7/32" bushing, I then cut a piece of 9/32" to make a sleeve to slide over the end of the 1/4" stuffing tube and then I slid the 7/32" bushing that has the 1/4" 5mm spacer into the both the 1/4" and 9/32" end of the tube which sandwiches all the different sizes and lengths together so from the plywood support to the flared end of the tube, the tube is three layers, 7/32", 1/4" and 9/32". I would like to think this one should hold up a little better than my first attempt. Just working on the cooling lines at the moment, I hope my order comes in the next few day's so I can use the new flex shaft and get back in the water.

[millzee]

I got the order today so I've made the new flex and fitted it finishing the new drive line. I need to know if I've got this thrust bearing fitted correctly? :confused1: I've put a few pic's here so you can let me know if I've installed the thrust bearing right and a few pic's of the stuffing tube all ready to run.

[Rumdog]

Ditch the thrust bearing. You need a gap there because the cable will compress and shrink up under load.

[FloatDaBoat]

Ditch the thrust bearing. You need a gap there because the cable will compress and shrink up under load.

Better yet, move the thrust bearing between the motor end plate & the coupler.

[millzee]

Better yet, move the thrust bearing between the motor end plate & the coupler.

I was wondering about that, the motor shaft has a little outward play (towards the prop) but no inward play(back into the motor, would the bearing still be needed there?

[FloatDaBoat]

Placing the thrust bearing between the motor & coupler prevents pressure from being applied to the front motor bearing. You still need a gap between the strut & drive dog.

[millzee]

Placing the thrust bearing between the motor & coupler prevents pressure from being applied to the front motor bearing. You still need a gap between the strut & drive dog.

cool, thanks, I'll swap it over b4 I run it again. I'm thinking of trying the X445 again first to see the temps without the binding issues and then going up to the X450 as suggested by fluid, should be fun.

[rearwheelin]

That thrust bearing will not work right , it is bigger than the O.D. of the stinger strut and it will catch the water and send it up the tube into your boat ! I favor a thrust ''Washers'' at the strut and use struts that will allow me to use thrust washers there....I have never used thrust bearings on the strut, or even the motor , my boats thrust at the transom and not the motor via 3/16 cable gap between the drive dog and strut......I have never busted a cable or a motor bearing.....................I am not saying the way I do my drives is for everyone but it has worked for me and I can see the diffrence in handling ..........Milzee just go with what everyone else usually does and ditch the thrust bearing and washers at your strut , since you desided not to run liners that makes you setup to thrust with you cable. Its not good to thrust with your cable with liners........I agree get rid of that bearing, its the wrong one anyway......

[millzee]

Thanks mate, I guess I now have 5 of these in the parts box, I'll find a use for them one day.:thumbup1:

That thrust bearing will not work right , it is bigger than the O.D. of the stinger strut and it will catch the water and send it up the tube into your boat ! I favor a thrust ''Washers'' at the strut and use struts that will allow me to use thrust washers there....I have never used thrust bearings on the strut, or even the motor , my boats thrust at the transom and not the motor via 3/16 cable gap between the drive dog and strut......I have never busted a cable or a motor bearing.....................I am not saying the way I do my drives is for everyone but it has worked for me and I can see the diffrence in handling ..........Milzee just go with what everyone else usually does and ditch the thrust bearing and washers at your strut , since you desided not to run liners that makes you setup to thrust with you cable. Its not good to thrust with your cable with liners........I agree get rid of that bearing, its the wrong one anyway......

[marko500]

I've got a whole drawer in my toolbox of "seemed like a good idea at the time parts".:doh: Most end up getting used somewhere and on something. The more I learn in this hobby the less I put into that drawer.:thumbup:

Mark

[Rumdog]

The only way you can thrust from the strut is with a wire drive or one of those 4mm flexes with square end and captured prop shaft.

[millzee]

I just finished putting her all back together and fitted it out with a slightly different layout. I will now have room for the gps I just bought so I'll be able to get more of an indication of how I'm tracking. I got rid of the thrust bearing and in the 3/16th gap I put a piece of silicone tube that fills about 6/8th of the gap. I packed a heap of grease in the tube and did this a few times, enough to cause the coupler to be full of grease which was a pain when I gave it all a dry test, the grease sprayed in a nice streight line from one side of the hull to the other. This may have been amplified by the fact that the motor wires needed to be switch as it was rotating the wrong way, this was a pain as I had not long shrink wrapped the bloody things, fixed the esc in place and had the layout ready to run, yet again another lesson learned, test b4 set up. The new aluminium cooling lines worked well, no water in the boat and I was able to have enough pressure going through the cooling system so the water was spraying out the outlets about 6-7', all good until extention length I'd put on the tap fitting I made had a blow out and soaked my shoes.:laugh: I hope to get it wet inn the next day or so, I just have to find enough time to play in the daylight hours. Goodnight.

[marko500]

Take a left over piece of cooling hose and with a razor blade or knive and cut 1/8 inch pieces off. I use a needle nose plier and open up these up and slip them over the cooling line and then slip cooling line over your fitting. The 1/8 inch pieces then act as clamps to hold the cooling line onto the fittings. Did I explain this OK. Maybe I should just grab the camera and start taking pictures, sometimes I confuse myself!:noidea: I do this on ever fitting on every one of my boats and have never had a line leak or fall off.

Mark

[marko500]

I reread your post and missed the shoes part the first time. Thought you had a line blow off inside the boat. Still a good idea to do anyways. Time for another cup of coffee...

Mark

[Rumdog]

Get rid of the tube between the dog and strut too. you want NOTHING there. It will just cause unnecessary friction, and will distort when the drive dog hits it.

[millzee]

I reread your post and missed the shoes part the first time. Thought you had a line blow off inside the boat. Still a good idea to do anyways. Time for another cup of coffee...

Mark

thanks for the tip Mark, I actually use small cable ties around all the fittings, it's was a good thing to see how well they hold up, the tap fitting I made I posted about earlier in this thread was a bit short so I extended it useing the tube off a pop rivet and attached cable ties to the joint, the pressure at this point is the strongest water flow and when trying the lines, at the point just b4 it blew off at, the silicon tube at the extention joint had expanded like a ballon so the little cable tie held up pretty well in my book.
Rumdog, Im a tad :confused2: due to a lot of people seem to swear by this technic, I thought it would help.
One more question, should I ditch the x445 and go streight to the x450 for my next run or will this be too bigger jump?

[Rumdog]

The place you may want the tube is on the end of the stuffing tube inside the boat. Put it on the end of the tube and overlap the flex by about 1/8". It will help to keep water from coming up through the tube.

[Rumdog]

1717 correct? If so, it will spin the x450 no problem.

[marko500]

I think there's some confusion here, I know it's not clear to me where you put the short piece of tubing. Is it over the stuffing tube covering the flex between the coupler and the stuffing tube. Or is it between the strut and the drive dog on the prop shaft?

Mark

[millzee]

The place you may want the tube is on the end of the stuffing tube inside the boat. Put it on the end of the tube and overlap the flex by about 1/8". It will help to keep water from coming up through the tube.

thanks rumdog, I read about doing that but I just don't have enough room, the gap between the tube and coupler is too small to fit the width of the silicon tube, I have put some heat shrink over the end and I'm hoping that this will stop the water but I'm jusy a bit unsure because of all the grease(may have come out of the coupler) when doing the dry test. What do you think about prop's, the x445 or streight to the x450?

[rearwheelin]

The only way you can thrust from the strut is with a wire drive or one of those 4mm flexes with square end and captured prop shaft.Yes you are so correct....Is that why I have never had issues ?

[LarrysDrifter]

The 450 will be fine to start with.1717's can turn a fair sized prop.Maybe get an X450/3 to try too.

[keithbradley]

thanks rumdog, I read about doing that but I just don't have enough room, the gap between the tube and coupler is too small to fit the width of the silicon tube, I have put some heat shrink over the end and I'm hoping that this will stop the water but I'm jusy a bit unsure because of all the grease(may have come out of the coupler) when doing the dry test. What do you think about prop's, the x445 or streight to the x450?

I forgot what esc you are running, but you will pull a fair amount of current with a x450 at teh RPM you are running. It might be a good idea to make a smaller step, or try it on 5s first. If you do make the jump to the x450 on 6s, make sure you check temps after a SHORT run. You will definitely like the speed you get with that prop if it doesnt have a negative effect on handling.:thumbup1:

[millzee]

[QUOTE=keithbradley;296201]I forgot what esc you are running, but you will pull a fair amount of current with a x450 at teh RPM you are running. It might be a good idea to make a smaller step, or try it on 5s first. If you do make the jump to the x450 on 6s, make sure you check temps after a SHORT run. You will definitely like the speed you get with that prop if it doesnt have a negative effect on handling.:thumbup1:[/QUOte[/I]

I'm running the swordfish 240hv esc on 6s2p, I will be sure to check every minute or so, I've asked my son to be the timmer boy so I don't get carried away and run for to long
thanks for the reply.

[Make-a-Wake]

I'd try a 447 first......it'll get you 55+ mph

[rearwheelin]

I've got a whole drawer in my toolbox of "seemed like a good idea at the time parts".:doh: Most end up getting used somewhere and on something. The more I learn in this hobby the less I put into that drawer.:thumbup:

Mark

True that !! Maybee some day I will realize that I am doing it all wrong :beerchug:

[millzee]

All set rtr. I thought I'd get a few pic's up incase it doesn't look like this again tomorrow. The COG is at app. 29.6%, the strut is as level as I can get it and I hope she'll run fine.:Praying: I'll start with the 445 for the first set of batteries so I can see how it should have run temp wise, minus the shaft binding, Then I think the 450 will get thrown on and as said in previous post, I'll take it easy time wise and stop every minute or so to check temps. I'm wondering how many 1 minute runs I should do before swapping batteries, I'm guessing 3-4, would this be correct?:unsure:
P.S. I modified my stand to accomodate the soon comming Titan29, I can seperate the stand to make two for working on the boats or keep it together as in the pic's.

[millzee]

Sweet!!:banana: Looked out the window and theres not a breath of wind and the lake is like one big mirror, I have to wait until after lunch to run the boat so I hope it stays this way:blah: I feel like a kid on xmas eve that knows what there getting.:cool2:

[millzee]

All set rtr. I thought I'd get a few pic's up incase it doesn't look like this again tomorrow. The COG is at app. 29.6%, the strut is as level as I can get it and I hope she'll run fine.:Praying: I'll start with the 445 for the first set of batteries so I can see how it should have run temp wise, minus the shaft binding, Then I think the 450 will get thrown on and as said in previous post, I'll take it easy time wise and stop every minute or so to check temps. I'm wondering how many 1 minute runs I should do before swapping batteries, I'm guessing 3-4, would this be correct?:unsure:
P.S. I modified my stand to accomodate the soon comming Titan29, I can seperate the stand to make two for working on the boats or keep it together as in the pic's.

Any help on how many 1 min runs I should do b4 swapping batteries would be great?:help:

[marko500]

Hard to say. What were your run times before? 3-4 would probably be about the limit I would try. I would plan on a cool down period between packs maybe 15 min or so depending on your temps. I have a jug with a fitting in the bottom and some tubing on it that can be filled with pond water and hooked to the boats cooling line so the water siphons down through the boats cooling system cooling it between runs.
Good luck and keep us posted.

Mark

[millzee]

Well, I've finished making the video of my 2nd test run. I'll be needing some help on replacing cap's on the sw240hv, if you watch the footage you'll see another newbie error. The x450 seems good, I think the damage was pure driver error.:stupid::doh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C-o7MV5Ifk

[marko500]

What happened to the 1 minute runs? You might be better off running an oval course and figure out how many laps you can do in a set time. (1 minute) Then have your buddy count the laps and call you in. Or else give him the stopwatch.
Looks to me like your hull is running a little bit too wet. Might still need the trim tabs or strut adjusted or weight moved back a little bit.
Keep at it your almost there.

Mark

[millzee]

What happened to the 1 minute runs? You might be better off running an oval course and figure out how many laps you can do in a set time. (1 minute) Then have your buddy count the laps and call you in. Or else give him the stopwatch.
Looks to me like your hull is running a little bit too wet. Might still need the trim tabs or strut adjusted or weight moved back a little bit.
Keep at it your almost there.

Mark

Thanks mate, The rudder is still the stock length for the speedmaster dual pick up, I'm having a stab, but If I shorten that, will that make the difference? Maybe raise the strut and trim tabs, my batteries are back on the servo so no room there. Are those caps stuffed? and how do I replace them? Sorry about all the questions but I want to get back out there again.:sorry::help:

[marko500]

I don't know if the rudder will change anything but the amount of drag. Probably have to raise the tabs and or strut a touch.
I don't know much about the caps or how to change them. When I've had ESCs go there is not much left to fix! LOL
Did you do a search on here about the caps and how to replace them? I don't know if I'd run them again the way they are, if they pop you'll have bigger problems and a bigger mess to clean up.
You might have to wait for someone with more experience to chime in on the cap issue.

Mark

[millzee]

thanks again.
I don't know if the rudder will change anything but the amount of drag. Probably have to raise the tabs and or strut a touch.
I don't know much about the caps or how to change them. When I've had ESCs go there is not much left to fix! LOL
Did you do a search on here about the caps and how to replace them? I don't know if I'd run them again the way they are, if they pop you'll have bigger problems and a bigger mess to clean up.
You might have to wait for someone with more experience to chime in on the cap issue.

Mark

[millzee]

Can anyone tell me what the timing setting on the sf240hv should be on with the 1717. When I check to see if it still worked I noticed I had it programmed for AUTO, I have now changed it to low, what should it be?

[Fluid]

I do not know for certain but after a lot of research it appears that the 1717 is a "Y" wind motor. If so then you can use 10-15 degrees of advance for optimum performance.


.

[Rich]

Thanks mate, The rudder is still the stock length for the speedmaster dual pick up, I'm having a stab, but If I shorten that, will that make the difference? Maybe raise the strut and trim tabs, my batteries are back on the servo so no room there. Are those caps stuffed? and how do I replace them? Sorry about all the questions but I want to get back out there again.:sorry::help:

Shortening the rudder will help reduce your amp draw and would stress the esc less. I did that to my Mean Machine and saw a difference. From the looks of your video it seems that the hull is running way too wet and it sounds like you motor is not getting up to the proper rpm for 6s. I would try to get that hull to "fly" on the water. A strut adjustment would be the first place I would start, shortening your rudder would be one of that last things I would try, is the boat hard to control or does it seem to favor the rudder side when going straight? If not then the rudder isn't causing the problem. I would also keep the runs in the 2-3 minuet range. and check the temps. Generally we run fe boats from 25000 rpm for sport to 35000 rpm for racing. I would perhaps try to run 5s2p instead of 6s2p until you get her dialed in. As for the caps, I would replace them before you run the boat again. All you have to do is unsolder the old caps and put new ones on such as these http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ck-cap-35v-1000 or you could add these http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=etti-e041&cat=136. Beware THESE ARE POLARIZED! I think the longer lead is positive for the individual caps. The cap board has clearly marked + and - so you can't mess it up. The cap board is what I use and it dropped my temps down alot. I would set the timing to low to start and when you have the boat running good go ahead and move the timing higher.

Edit: Fluid took care of the timing

[millzee]

thanks guy's, I'll get the caps and a board ordered and I'll make those adjustments and try to get this thing dialed in. I have noticed the two caps that will be replaced, the solder are going to be very hard to get at, any links to how to take the sf240hv apart?

[millzee]

Do you think the t-180 or the sf200 would be ok in this boat, I have a sf200 on the way and I could then just get a t180 to put in the titan29 with the 1515 2200kv, I'm thinking I could do this to get me by until I have worked out how to replace the caps on the s240?

[keithbradley]

Do you think the t-180 or the sf200 would be ok in this boat, I have a sf200 on the way and I could then just get a t180 to put in the titan29 with the 1515 2200kv, I'm thinking I could do this to get me by until I have worked out how to replace the caps on the s240?

After watching your video I have a few opinions on this:

*Did you calibrate your transmitter? RPM sounds WAY too low for the kv/cell count you are running. I have ran this motor on 6s and it should do MUCH more than that. If it is properly calibrated, I would suspect that one or both of your lipos is not providing the power needed for your setup.

*If the SF240 couldnt handle it, you simple need to change your setup. The SF 200 and T-180 are HUGE steps down in power capability.

* The x450 is too big of a prop for the RPM you are running. I mentioned this before, and I only know this because I have logged smaller props with similar setups on my ICE HV160 and saw current draw beyond 200A. The x450 on 6s with a wet running boat is probably demanding closer to 300A than 200A.

Honestly I think the boat should be much faster than it looks in that video. This is my 34" cat with a 44mm prop and a smaller motor but similar RPM. I can hear a noticable difference in RPM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaYLCyhMnfo

[Rich]

Do you think the t-180 or the sf200 would be ok in this boat, I have a sf200 on the way and I could then just get a t180 to put in the titan29 with the 1515 2200kv, I'm thinking I could do this to get me by until I have worked out how to replace the caps on the s240?

The sf200 might be ok, but I would use a small prop to start after all of the adjustments have been made. Do you have a data logger?

[millzee]

I might try re calibrating the controller also, just to make sure.

[keithbradley]

I might try re calibrating the controller also, just to make sure.

Yeah, watch a couple minutes of your vid, and then watch mine right after it. It should be about the same RPM, but you can hear a HUGE difference. Something isnt right. If you get it sorted out you will be happy with it, even with the smaller prop.

[Rich]

I might try re calibrating the controller also, just to make sure.

What is your pwm set at?

[millzee]

pwm should be set at 8(the lowest)
What is your pwm set at?

[rearwheelin]

Water cooled capaciters would had been perfect !

[millzee]

I've been calling around trying to find some caps to replace the swallen ones and I found I can get another sf240hv for a reasonable price here in Oz, I will need another speedo down the track so should I get another and use it to get this boat running how it should or should I wait and get a cc hydraIce 240? I'm just a tad worried about the sf240's.

[millzee]

I've ordered a few t180's for my learning and burning, I'll try fixing the sf240hv when I get a chance but from what a few guy's say, these should do the job for a few runs.

[Grazacind]

Mate did you get your t180's from hobby king. They have a pretty good deal going. Dont run them above 5S though.

[millzee]

Mate did you get your t180's from hobby king. They have a pretty good deal going. Dont run them above 5S though.

Yeah, $77 each so I got a few, I was planning 6s with the 1717, have you had them fry?

[Grazacind]

I have yes they go up in a ball of smoke. If you run 5S they are pretty bullet proof. Have you got any idea of what amps you are pulling. I use the eagle tree system when I tune the boats. Best 150.00 I ever spent. It gives you all the data you need and more.

Do you have a good variety of props too. I buy mine with the thoughts of using them on all the other boats ie. props that come in CR pairs.

Cheers mate and let us know how the t180 goes.

I am in the process of designing a 44" carbon/kevlar mono with a planning plank. All being well no turn fins as it will be a saw beastie. Running a MHZ scorpion 5035/760 on 10s.

[keithbradley]

Ive found the SF240HV's to be pretty tough myself, but I think you should get the Castle ICE just for its datalog features. They can log all the current you can pull. Having the datalog will help you figure out why you had problems with the SF240.

[millzee]

I have yes they go up in a ball of smoke. If you run 5S they are pretty bullet proof. Have you got any idea of what amps you are pulling. I use the eagle tree system when I tune the boats. Best 150.00 I ever spent. It gives you all the data you need and more.

Do you have a good variety of props too. I buy mine with the thoughts of using them on all the other boats ie. props that come in CR pairs.

Cheers mate and let us know how the t180 goes.

I am in the process of designing a 44" carbon/kevlar mono with a planning plank. All being well no turn fins as it will be a saw beastie. Running a MHZ scorpion 5035/760 on 10s.
I do have a few prop's, x440, x442, x445, x447, x448, x450, x640, x642
Good luck with your build, sounds great!:buttrock:

[millzee]

I may have found a few contributing factors to the wet running, I'll put a few close up pic's of the transom, I think the trim tabs are up too high and that rudder is an anchor. I pulled out the original rudder I bought for the boat and it's tapered (the set back was 5", too long) as to the one on the boat that I replaced with the 4" set back which is streight. I have drawn a line where I'm thinking of cutting it, is that close? Also, I have only ever used the program card so I loaded the swordfish program onto the computer and played with the settings, set the timing to medium and LVC on auto and the rest default. Then I re-calibrated the tx with the esc and once done gave it a few pumps to see if it all worked and it seemed to scream a lot harder than before, the hull actually moved around on the stand a little and I only squeezed 1/2 throttle quick punches, maybe I'm dreaming hoping it's somthing this simple but it was definatly more alive than b4.

[Rich]

Defiantly cut the rudder, looking at it now it seems too long but thats me. I agree, running the esc at 6s is way too much even for a high end esc its hard. If you use the t180 get the etti cap bank I posted for you it will help get rid of the heat on the main caps. The reason your sf240 got hot was all the built up current from the hull running wet (ask me how I know..). Once you get that hull out of the water it will be awesome. My Mean Machine had the caps bulge on 4s2p because it wasn't running free. Once you fix that it will be all good. :thumbup1:

[johnson22456]

I have been running 3 seaking 180's all on 6s without any problems. 2 in my hpr with neu 1521's, and 1 in my df33 with a neu 1515 turning x648-x450. Just don't use the bec. Don't be afraid to run the 180 on 6, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Rich]

I have been running 3 seaking 180's all on 6s without any problems. 2 in my hpr with neu 1521's, and 1 in my df33 with a neu 1515 turning x648-x450. Just don't use the bec. Don't be afraid to run the 180 on 6, it shouldn't be a problem.

What are the kvs of all three of those motors and do you have any data to share for millzee?

[johnson22456]

What are the kvs of all three of those motors and do you have any data to share for millzee?

There in my sig.

The 1515 is 1500kv and the 1521s are 1860kv. What kind of "data" are you looking for. I thought the question was he wanted to run 6s on the 180 and you told him not to.

[Rich]

I was thinking amp draw for the df 33 and the HPR. This way he would be more comfortable about the sf240 and the t180. I agree with using a separate rx pack and not using the bec on the t180.

[johnson22456]

Peak amps on the hpr= 177a with a constant of around 130a. That was on a set of x442s. I have since ran this setup with a set of worked x447s. There amp hungry "d" wind motors.

I plan to have the same setup as millzee in the water this weekend, with the exception of using a t180.

My df33 was running really wet like his pirate is, I had to cut the strut down about 1 1/4". Brought then bow up and it's running very well now.

[millzee]

thanks fella's, thats good info, I have ordered the 35v etti cap banks to put on the t180's and the 63v to put on the sf240 and sf200, as soon as I get them I'll set it back up and get the video camera out again, third time lucky:Praying:

[Rich]

63v? where did you get those caps? All you have to do is get her out of the water and she'll run like a dream.

Edit: Nevermind about the 63v I had a brain fart :)

[millzee]

63v? where did you get those caps? All you have to do is get her out of the water and she'll run like a dream.

Edit: Nevermind about the 63v I had a brain fart :)

I still have to replace the caps, I figure I'll somehow remove the swallen caps on the 2nd (mid section of esc) row, and leave the top(easy to get at) row and add the etti cap bank to replace the 2nd row, this would add an additional 2 caps to the unit. My question is, the swollen caps in the middle of the esc will be very hard to get at, will I need to take the esc apart to get at the soldering of the caps or can I just cut them off, then add the etti cap bank to the mid section of the positive and negative poles that run top to bottom through the esc. If anyone has experienced replacing the caps on a sf240 could you please chime in with some assistance??

[millzee]

So I've got the caps replaced with the etti cap bank and made up some new parallel leads, I've just ordered the m447 and I've been working on a x448(first attempt). I hope to give it another run in the next few day's but the weather is pretty bad at the moment. here's a few pic's of the repair. http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=23178

[millzee]

I took the boat out earlier to test the adjustments I've done (trimmed the rudder, raised the trim tabs) and the repaired esc.
I used the x450 prop and ran 3x approx 1 1/2minute runs, the first run was very bouncy, it wasn't able to use full throttle for long due to it being very unstable. Only got a top speed of 76.6kph - 47.6mph, Temps were fairly low, I'll have all the temp readings included in my video when I get it done. The batteries started with 24.9v and after the third run read 22.1v. For the 2nd run I adjusted the trim tabs down a few turns and she settled a little, top speed of only 72.5kph - 45.05mph, temps still ok. I didn't wait very long for the third run so temps got a little higher although stayed within the safety limits. I moved the batteries forward 1/2" and it made the boat more stable but I guess was bordering on running a bit wet, top speed again at 72.6kph - 45.11mph. I'll have the video up soon and would appreciate if you could take the time to watch it and offer me advise on the fine tunning of this thing.:smile:

[millzee]

I finally got the video uploaded, please take a look and advise me on how to get this hull a little more stable. I'm glad I got it looser than my first two vid's but I'm not too sure which adjustments will be best to make from here.:huh::w00t: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfVDJW6UXCs
http://www.youtube.com/user/1millzee?feature=mhum

[Brushless01]

Somethings not right with that setup you should be in the 60's on 6s.

[marko500]

Somethings not right with that setup you should be in the 60's on 6s.

I agree, your motor just doesn't sound like it's winding out, it should be about 35,00rpm unloaded. Or the prop is not hooking up the way it should. Please don't take this wrong but is the prop sharpened and balanced?

Mark

[Rich]

What is the timing set at? My boat didn't wake up til I advanced the timing.

[millzee]

The prop was purchased s&b, I put it on the balancer and it seemed ok. I have set the esc timing to mid, lvc to 6s and recalibrated the rx. I'm fully aware that something's not right, I just don't know what and need some help on where to start making adjustments so I can get this boat running in the 60's like it's suppose to. Should I maybe try 6s1p to lighten the load? or should I put a 447 on, try to get the strut and tabs set and then move back to the 450?:help: In the video I added some slow motions clips to show the bounce, in the last runn I had moved the batteries forward 1/2" and it's seemed a little better but I'm not sure if I should have maybe left them back and just screwed the tabs down a tad more? With all the bounce I don't think I was driving the boat as hard as it can go, probably only 6-7/8th's of the throttle, I need some advise of where to go from here and more runtime to try and get it corrected.

[Rich]

I would really like to see your amp draw on that setup...that would allow me to give you better advice. Your caps seem to be a bit hot for my taste. The motor sounds better then it did on your previous video, but it seems a tad low still. Check for binding on the drive line, and grease the flex often. How is the boat on take off just before it gets on plane? Does it seem to need an excessive throttle? Is there cavitation?

[marko500]

I sure wish I knew more so I could help you more. But I don't have alot of experience with v-hulls, mostly cats and hydros. And all my boats run on 4s. There has to be something that we're missing, I wonder if you had an Eagletree or other type of logger if that would help you figure this out. With all the experience these guys on here have hopefully someone can help figure this out. Did you by some chance overheat that motor and cause it to demagnetize? Just trying to look at this from every possible angle.

Mark

[millzee]

I have set the esc to mid timing, the pwm is at 8khz and the lvc is set to 6s. It's been suggested by a fellow on the RRR site to take the trim tabs off and run it to get the strut angle correct and work on each thing at a time so I think I'll try that.
The amp draw seems to be around 100-120 cont. I worked it out this out roughly on the basis that the batteries started with 24.9v and after approx. 5 1/2-6minutes runtime they only had 22.1v left in them. I'll get an eagle tree system once steve get them back in stock. The motor is new and has only seen lowish temps at this stage, I don't believe it's seen any damaging temps. I could try putting in a t180, I have a couple and this might help determine weather the sf240's doing what it should and if that still does't work I suppose I could try another 1717.:confused2: The boat takes off a lot better now than when I first ran it, it pop's up out of the water with only a little effort, maybe 1/2 throttle, it didn't seem too sluggish on take off's after I slowed down to almost a stop.

[marko500]

Yeah I was thinking about if you could swap out another esc to try. Hang in there, isn't this sport suppose to be fun and challenging??

Mark

[millzee]

Yeah I was thinking about if you could swap out another esc to try. Hang in there, isn't this sport suppose to be fun and challenging??

Mark

I'll keep pluggin away, it's just a bit hard as if I drive a hour to my closest hobby shop, they look at me and I think guess just as much as I do and the closest club where the knowledge would be is over 3 hours drive. Thanks for the pep up and advice:thumbup:

[Grazacind]

The best bit of advice I can offer at the moment is try one thing at a time go for very short runs and document everything. This will start to give a pattern of good versus bad performance.

There are a couple of other data recorder like the etti E006 or you could or contact Andrew Gilchrist from fastelectrics.com in oz as he has the eagle tree in stock.

[millzee]

The best bit of advice I can offer at the moment is try one thing at a time go for very short runs and document everything. This will start to give a pattern of good versus bad performance.

There are a couple of other data recorder like the etti E006 or you could or contact Andrew Gilchrist from fastelectrics.com in oz as he has the eagle tree in stock.

thanks mate, I'll check it out this afternoon once I get some work done.:thumbup1:

[Make-a-Wake]

I use musical notes at times to compare my motor revs in different vids. Your boat is running in F# at top speed..........according to my guitar, my 39"mono with the same exact setup is in the note of B.........5 half steps higher. Your motor is not revving out. The 1717 can spin an x450 to full rpm capability so thats not the issue..............something in your throttle calibration/throttle range is not right in my opinion.

I know the "note" method is pretty basic, and hardly scientific, but it works as a comparison for me looking back on my vids.

Compare the difference if you would like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2tb2z2REDM

[Rich]

I use musical notes at times to compare my motor revs in different vids. Your boat is running in F# at top speed..........according to my guitar, my 39"mono with the same exact setup is in the note of B.........5 half steps higher. Your motor is not revving out. The 1717 can spin an x450 to full rpm capability so thats not the issue..............something in your throttle calibration/throttle range is not right in my opinion.

Compare the difference if you would like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2tb2z2REDM

That a good idea! With that said I guess the throttle cal could be off. Come to think of it, when i switch to the mr3000 receiver I had to recal the endpoints and noticed my boat scream a bit louder. Give the above a try

[rearwheelin]

Seen the vid..... I think you are getting the bouncing from 1 of 2 things and they work in combination. First is your prop is quite aways out there so your stinger is lifting your prop above the ride line and dunking it below the ride line and the speeding up and slowing down of prop rpm is sending thrust surges up your drive cable to the motor amplifying the bounce..:biggrin:

[rearwheelin]

I would say that your stuffing tube and cable is passing one hell of a dependability test :lol:

[millzee]

That a good idea! With that said I guess the throttle cal could be off. Come to think of it, when i switch to the mr3000 receiver I had to recal the endpoints and noticed my boat scream a bit louder. Give the above a try

Ok, this is a dumbass question but when your saying endpoints, are you referring to the travel (it's set to 100%) or the exponential (mines set to 0%) sub trim( i'm at 0) :doh::sorry::confused2:

Also, I'm going to get the eagletree system from fastelectric's here in OZ, what's everything I'm gunna need so when I set it up I don't find that I'm needing anything?

[millzee]

Also, I'm going to get the eagletree system from fastelectric's here in OZ, what's everything I'm gunna need so when I set it up I don't find that I'm needing anything?[/QUOTE]

Ok, sorry steve, I just noticed you have them back in stock and I've got a shopping list ready to hit go but before I do I just want to confirm what I need, I have the 150a elogger, lcd screen and gps on the list, which rpm sensor will I be wanting??

[millzee]

I just ordered the eagletree system so in a week or so I should be able to get a better understanding on the boat.

[Grazacind]

Also, I'm going to get the eagletree system from fastelectric's here in OZ, what's everything I'm gunna need so when I set it up I don't find that I'm needing anything?

Ok, sorry steve, I just noticed you have them back in stock and I've got a shopping list ready to hit go but before I do I just want to confirm what I need, I have the 150a elogger, lcd screen and gps on the list, which rpm sensor will I be wanting??[/QUOTE]

Mate have a chat with Andrew he is really helpful. But I would suggest the brushless sensor.

[millzee]

Thanks Grazacind, I gave him a ring but he was unable to get to the phone so I emailed him and within a short time he replied offering some great advise on sy boat set up and letting me know his prices for the e-logger which I was happy with although he didn't have everything I wanted so I checked OSE and found that steve had them back in stock. I feel like a prick but at least when it arrives I'll have the e-logger, a few temp sensors, gps and I was still unsure on the rpm sensor so I grabbed one of each:doh:. I really appreciate you putting me onto him as I will purchase from him when I need a few things and in a hurry, I've found it hard to find a good store in oz.:thumbup:

I have trimmed the rudder a little more making the bottom 2" below the chine and I have removed the trim tabs. To make sure the bolt holes don't leak I've used some washers, plumbers tape and rubber grommets and bolted them back up. I hope to get a bit of time on Sunday to run it again and will work on getting the strut angle / COG correct b4 doing too much. Should I maybe drop back to a x448/447 or even a 445, Im confident the boat handles the 445 with ease. After reading up on the endpoints and finding a thread where steve say's that setting the throttle travel on the DX3S from 100%-150% worked for him so I thought I give that a try. In the same thread drwayne say's that sometimes if you apply any throttle before the esc has connected properly and this can throw out the calibration, I can remember doing that on at least one occasion the other day, just before either the 2nd or 3rd run, so I'll recalibrate again to make sure it's all good.

[Rich]

Also, I'm going to get the eagletree system from fastelectric's here in OZ, what's everything I'm gunna need so when I set it up I don't find that I'm needing anything?

Ok, sorry steve, I just noticed you have them back in stock and I've got a shopping list ready to hit go but before I do I just want to confirm what I need, I have the 150a elogger, lcd screen and gps on the list, which rpm sensor will I be wanting??[/QUOTE]

The brushless rpm sensor is the one you would want. It looks like you got the idea of endpoints :thumbup1:

[johnson22456]

Here is almost the exact setup. Delta Force Pirate, Castle 1717.The only difference is that I'm running a seaking 180, 6s1p, same stinger, different rudder, and a wiredrive instead of a flex.

We were testing props that day and this one ran about 54mph, with the x450 it went 61mph on the GPS.

Stinger was set at zero degrees, and trim tabs were up.

I don't know much about the swordfish controllers, but it seems to me that its not letting you get to full throttle.

I am by no means an expert, but since we have the same setups I thought we can bounce ideas off of each other.

A9C1S0OU918

[Rich]

Here is almost the exact setup. Delta Force Pirate, Castle 1717.The only difference is that I'm running a seaking 180, 6s1p, same stinger, different rudder, and a wiredrive instead of a flex.

We were testing props that day and this one ran about 54mph, with the x450 it went 61mph on the GPS.

Stinger was set at zero degrees, and trim tabs were up.

I don't know much about the swordfish controllers, but it seems to me that its not letting you get to full throttle.

I am by no means an expert, but since we have the same setups I thought we can bounce ideas off of each other.

A9C1S0OU918

There is something def. wrong, yours is screaming compared to his...

[millzee]

Thanks Johnson, the video really helps, I have been thinking of trying 6s1p to take 500grams out of the boat and I think you've shown the result's, when you put your boat in the water it sits about an 1 - 1 1/2" higher in the water than mine. What rudder are you useing? I'm hoping to try the boat again this afternoon if I get time and I'm going the set the throttle travel to 150% on the DX3S and see if that helps. If all else fails I might swap out the s240 with a t180, should I set the timing to 15 on the t180?

[johnson22456]

Timing set at 15 degrees.

Here's the rudder, I would not recomend changing your rudder. This is the one I'm using.
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-80050

I have a video of a 2p run with the x450. Gps said 61mph and some change. I'll upload it soon, and post it here.

The only other thing I'm going to change is the length of my stinger. On my df33 I cut about 18mm off of it and it really made a difference. It always ran wet before and now it is about perfect.

[Rich]

I have my seaking 180 set at 11.25 timing on my meanmachine running 5s2p. I have no extra caps and they only got to 98f

[millzee]

Timing set at 15 degrees.

Here's the rudder, I would not recomend changing your rudder. This is the one I'm using.
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-80050

I have a video of a 2p fun with the x450. Gps said 61mph and some change. I'll up load it soon, and post it here.

The only other thing I'm going to change is the length of my stinger. On my df33 I cut about 18mm off of it and it really made a difference. It always ran wet before and now it is about perfect.

Thanks again mate, the 2p video will be great to watch, I've had a few people recommend I shorten the stinger so I think I'll put that on my things to do list, take 10mm off to start and take it from there:thumbup:

P.S. Steve, your the man, the order for my eagle tree system has left the country already, same day shipping, love it!!!!!!!:bounce:

[johnson22456]

Here's the 2p video, with a little lesson at the end about putting flotation in your hatch.:sinking-guy:

DCsPoFAG42o

[millzee]

geee's mate, thanks for posting, I hope your electronics were ok after that, do you have hatch lock's or anything on the hatch or just tape? I can hear the difference between mine and yours, I hope adjusting the travel will be my easy fix but hey, that'd just be too easy lol.

[johnson22456]

Everything was ok. I usually spray all my electronics with corrosionx just in case. I have just been using tape, but might look into some kind of mechanical fastners now.

[Rich]

geee's mate, thanks for posting, I hope your electronics were ok after that, do you have hatch lock's or anything on the hatch or just tape? I can hear the difference between mine and yours, I hope adjusting the travel will be my easy fix but hey, that'd just be too easy lol.

I am willing to bet that your travel is the problem. I just check my travel on my DX3S and its set at 150% forward and 150% back. I am running the 180 esc.

[millzee]

I ran the 35 again yesterday with no trim tabs and the strut at zero, I bad the Cog around 29-30% but I think I'll need to raise this after the results, Very loose. I finally hit a speed of 91.2kph - 56.6mph. Half way through the first run I adjusted the throttle travel on the DX3S from 100% up to 130% and if you put yourself through all 5 runs you'll see and hear the difference. Thanks to everyone who's help get me step closer to gettting this boat right.

I know it's long but the 5th run is the best so either skip through the first few or watch the lot, please enjoy, I did. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA2uhwQpjzI

[Rich]

Much Much Better! But why didn't you put the travel to 150%?

[johnson22456]

Good work.:banana:

Now you can start taming it with the tabs. I would start with about 1/4 turn at a time.

[millzee]

Thanks guy's, I ran out of dayligt but for my next run I will put the trim tabs back on and try with the travel at 150%. I think the long set back rudder saved a few blow overs.:biggrin:

[millzee]

I just made a shorter video of the last run only, the long video was too annoying even for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_hjJX8lqZM

[Make-a-Wake]

You may be able to tame it without tabs..............use battery and stinger adjustments. Start with batts more forward..........

[Rich]

You may be able to tame it without tabs..............use battery and stinger adjustments. Start with batts more forward..........

:iagree:

[chummer]

I just made a shorter video of the last run only, the long video was too annoying even for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_hjJX8lqZM

What prop?

[millzee]

What prop?

I'm finding the x450 to work well.

[millzee]

I got a couple of runs in tonight and managed to get 91.6kph out of it, not much of an improvement but I was only playing around with battery placement. I will still have to tickle the strut and reintroduce the trim tabs. I put on some larger turn fins from ose and they rock, no more hopping in the corners at 1/2 -3/4 throttle, I'm very happy with them although due to my getting to like high speed turns and having a fare crowd, I managed to spin out several times, a few times I had big flips, the first 3 or 4 time I got lucky and landed upright, it was the high speed run, a bit unstable into unsettled water that caught the nose and sent the boat into 2 or 3 end to end flips that landed her upside down. I kayaked out and turned it back over within 5-7 minutes and a friend drove it back in whilst I paddled back. Very happy, not a drop of water in the hull, so I checked temps and through it back out until the LVC kicked in. Temps where all good, probably 5-6 minute runs and the motor only got to around 42c-107f, the esc was about the same but the caps around 63c-145f after the lvc kicked in. Batteries stayed around 40c. I'm sorry I didn't get any video as I would have finally had some entertaining footage but I just didn't have enough time to organize it, this was a spur of the moment run between busy spells.:bounce::blah::thumbup1:

[millzee]

Here's some video of today's efforts, short and sweet, top speed of 96.9kph - 60.21mph, I'm getting close to my goal of 100kph :bounce::banana::banana::rockon2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNXsKogxces&feature=channel_video_title

[Make-a-Wake]

Much different boat than when you started the thread..................I think you're there :rockon2:

[gerardobrandao]

Hello guys...


Just to give an idea of mine DF 35 hull....
It´s running good, but i need to trim it a little bit...but i can assure it that´s an animal on the water...most of time i can´t WOT....Hope you like it , and it seems of comparising to your setups...runing 65-68mph:thumbup1::thumbup1:

Running almost 5 minutes and batteries at the end all about 3.55V but WARM...

kMYoBLVVfic


Best Regards :smile:

[millzee]

nice, I think I'll have to re think my goal. well done:thumbup:

[millzee]

would a x548 get things a little hot do you think?

[gerardobrandao]

would a x548 get things a little hot do you think?

Hello Milzee


The best think i can tell you is give it a try for 30 seconds...and check temperatures...!
Mine NEU was pushing easily the the X648, about the Castle 1717 can´t tell anything..

Try it..

Best Regards

[millzee]

sorry to post about this boat again, just trying to tie it all up.
This boat no longer exist, it's now here http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?30237-Df-35-Pirate-Rebuild&highlight=