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oscarel
01-05-2011, 04:01 PM
So I have a friend that just purchased a Spartan and he's too busy to run it and he's given it to me to break in for him :banana: I should have eagle tree data tomorrow, I've got 2 Turnigy 5000 3S on the charger now! I was able to see the Traxxas guys testing this thing and now I'll get to try for myself before I buy!! Thanks Butch for letting me be the first with your baby!

CaptPJB
01-05-2011, 07:46 PM
Looking forward to some real data not the hype that has been pushed for months.

Brushless55
01-05-2011, 08:29 PM
watch temps, I hear some have returned them due to temp issues on the motor

martin
01-06-2011, 11:52 AM
They have just got the Spartan in the shops in the UK now & i asked how much a spare motor was, £160 GB pounds. So i expect this to be around $160 for you guys. For us in the UK the £160 is around $250, ouch.

oscarel
01-06-2011, 03:41 PM
Here's some amperage data, my GPS unit didn't seem to capture anything. I ran it for a couple of mins and brought it in and then put my cell phone in to capture speed. I was able to get 46.3 which isn't bad for run down lips's. I have not touched the stinger or tabs, everything is the way it was when the box was opened. Eagle tree data first run was with batteries about 3/4 of the way back, second was with batteries all the way back. Phone GPS reading was also with batteries all the way back.

Oscar

Doby
01-06-2011, 03:47 PM
Gee,,46.3 with run down LiPos is awfully close to the 50 Mph advertised speed..........finally someone with some facts!

befu
01-06-2011, 04:08 PM
Real data, YEah!!!

So, only high 40's huh? Guess the boat stinks then.... LOL :sarcasm1:

Good to see some data. I was wondering what the amperage was going to be. Looks like spikes up around 100 and settles down closer to 80 as it gets up to speed. Motor and ESC must be decent quality for that. I think this is comparable in size to a 540xl Feigo, correct? Those are rated for around 70amps max I thought, but I have never actualy run one, so I do not know what people put them through when they run them hard.

Either way, you know the ESC handles 120 amp surges! Get more data and thank you for posting.

brian

oscarel
01-06-2011, 04:23 PM
NP, I did get to talk to the Traxxas guy again today and he said he saw amps between 80 and 130 in the 100hrs of testing he did. I had a PM asking about heat, with 6S running with the batteries all the way forward the motor did get a little on the warm side. But today airing it out a little more it was way cooler. The motor does have a temp sensor on it so I would expect it would shut down or cut back if it got too hot.

Also one other thing, make sure you check your rudder direction before running. When I first turned it on yesterday it was reversed and it was very easy to correct. Today between runs it reverted back to reversed, so watch it!

martin
01-06-2011, 04:47 PM
How did you reverse rudder direction through the tx. Thanks.

oscarel
01-06-2011, 05:07 PM
press menu for 3 sec you should bet 1 blinking green,
press menu you should get 2 blinking green
press set should get 1 blinking green
press set again should get 1 blinking red
press set again and the steering servo should reverse

oscarel
01-06-2011, 05:08 PM
Programming is on page 26 of manual.

Brushless55
01-06-2011, 05:34 PM
Here's some amperage data, my GPS unit didn't seem to capture anything. I ran it for a couple of mins and brought it in and then put my cell phone in to capture speed. I was able to get 46.3 which isn't bad for run down lips's. I have not touched the stinger or tabs, everything is the way it was when the box was opened. Eagle tree data first run was with batteries about 3/4 of the way back, second was with batteries all the way back. Phone GPS reading was also with batteries all the way back.

Oscar

Right on man!
I just placed an order for one of these at tower to do some testing on 4s, 5s, and 6s
I don't have an Eagle Tree, but I was going to do gps runs and see what happens on the stock prop and then try some others I have lying around
and gues what the CC1520 is going into after my gps runs :spy:

jac4412
01-06-2011, 06:51 PM
Huh interesting... so it appears they came out with a great setup! Any info or comments on the handling and such? Thats funny... now that I think of it I'm wondering why no one brought up the heat concern before the release.... Going from a few nimh packs to racing 6s lipos is a huge jump... I wonder how these things will work in the summer. But thats cool... maybe I'll have to pick one up since theyre is such positive reviews!

Brushless55
01-06-2011, 06:54 PM
I've read over at Traxxas that someone is seeing 185-205* temps on the motor

jac4412
01-06-2011, 07:02 PM
Well that's a little too high for my taste... like about 50 degrees too high.....

Diesel6401
01-06-2011, 07:02 PM
I've read over at Traxxas that someone is seeing 185-205* temps on the motor

WHAT!!!!!!! :ThumbsDown01:

*That's Crazy*

oscarel
01-06-2011, 07:05 PM
Huh interesting... so it appears they came out with a great setup! Any info or comments on the handling and such? Thats funny... now that I think of it I'm wondering why no one brought up the heat concern before the release.... Going from a few nimh packs to racing 6s lipos is a huge jump... I wonder how these things will work in the summer. But thats cool... maybe I'll have to pick one up since theyre is such positive reviews!

It handles great from what I did. Again it's not my boat and I'm trying to be as gentle as I can with it. It was a little windy today, 10+mph winds, and with the batteries all the way back it get's a little squirly but all in all a great handling boat. My only complaint is that the lid feels really flimsy and I wonder how long they're going to stand up to abuse. Also not a drop of water in the hull.

So now back to the heat thing. I ran it yesterday for about 6mins with the batteries all the way forward so it was running very wet and that was the only way it heated up the motor. I would imagine which I'll test tomorrow that it was pulling around 130 amps easily running wet.

Brushless55
01-06-2011, 07:13 PM
It handles great from what I did. Again it's not my boat and I'm trying to be as gentle as I can with it. It was a little windy today, 10+mph winds, and with the batteries all the way back it get's a little squirly but all in all a great handling boat. My only complaint is that the lid feels really flimsy and I wonder how long they're going to stand up to abuse. Also not a drop of water in the hull.

So now back to the heat thing. I ran it yesterday for about 6mins with the batteries all the way forward so it was running very wet and that was the only way it heated up the motor. I would imagine which I'll test tomorrow that it was pulling around 130 amps easily running wet.

what do you think your average amps is?
because pulling 130amps running 6mins seams like a long run.. :confused2:

oscarel
01-06-2011, 07:16 PM
Right on man!
I just placed an order for one of these at tower to do some testing on 4s, 5s, and 6s
I don't have an Eagle Tree, but I was going to do gps runs and see what happens on the stock prop and then try some others I have lying around
and gues what the CC1520 is going into after my gps runs :spy:

That will be interesting. The 1520 will need more prop than what comes on this boat and I wonder what that's gonna do to handling. I also wonder what this motor would do with a different prop.

oscarel
01-06-2011, 07:21 PM
what do you think your average amps is?
because pulling 130amps running 6mins seams like a long run.. :confused2:

So if I take the 2 runs from the eagle tree data today the first shows average 43.37 and the second 49.62 with each run being about 130secs. The third run my GPS shows 3:06mins 0.46 miles so I would say about 2mins for this run. I'll put the batteries on the charger and see how much is put back into them. Batteries are 2 Turnigy 5000 3S in series.

oscarel
01-07-2011, 11:28 AM
I put about 4700 ma back into the packs which included balancing. I'm headed back to the lake with 4S and 6S and I've got temp sensors on the front and back of the motor and RPM sensor hooked up. Hopefully the GPS will record this time.

Brushless55
01-07-2011, 12:05 PM
I put about 4700 ma back into the packs which included balancing. I'm headed back to the lake with 4S and 6S and I've got temp sensors on the front and back of the motor and RPM sensor hooked up. Hopefully the GPS will record this time.

ok..
that's pushing those packs taking them down to only 6% left in the packs :huh:

Brushless55
01-07-2011, 12:09 PM
so if we total your runs = 446 sec into the 4700mah, your average amp draw is 37.94amps
so if we take our packs to 20% left we would see run times of 6.33min or 380sec..

oscarel
01-07-2011, 01:39 PM
ok..
that's pushing those packs taking them down to only 6% left in the packs :huh:

But that's putting 4700 ma back into 2 5000ma packs correct??? On the charger cells are showing about 3.8v per.

Make-a-Wake
01-07-2011, 01:53 PM
Looks to me that with amp draw around 80, and spikes up to 120, along with the high heat mentioned(although not verified yet by osarel) that the prop size is somewhat maxxed out. Maybe a berylium prop of similar size would help it run a tad cooler and get a few more mph out of it.

oscarel
01-07-2011, 01:56 PM
Ok, here's temp and amp data. Again the GPS unit didn't record. I've got to play with that a little more. I ran it on 4s until I got bored and then 6s. It took on some water today so I wasn't going to sacrifice my cellphone. 4s was a continuous run, 6s there are 3 runs. I had a Garmin 855 in and I recorded high speed of 44 but the boat was bouncing back and forth so I brought it in and removed the GPS. Second run it was also bouncing around and I found the rudder tilted up so I moved it back straight and went for the 3rd run. There is no place to hook up the eagle tree so I had a 1500 3s battery powering it and I would imagine the weight of that plus the GPS would add up almost to another 3s 5000 battery.

oscarel
01-07-2011, 01:59 PM
Max temp after running was around 130 and it was still climbing after running as you can see. So I'm sure the 150 is possible with extended running. But as you can see while it's running the cool water will bring the temps down. ONE OF THE TEMPS SENSORS CAME LOOSE WHICH EXPLAINS THE BLUE LINE GOING LOW AND STAYING THERE ON THE 6S RUN.

oscarel
01-07-2011, 02:18 PM
RPM data

oscarel
01-07-2011, 02:31 PM
But that's putting 4700 ma back into 2 5000ma packs correct??? On the charger cells are showing about 3.8v per.

I stand corrected, I just put 4175 back into one 3s.

Brushless55
01-07-2011, 02:50 PM
I stand corrected, I just put 4175 back into one 3s.

That makes me feel better, that's about 16% left in your packs...
Did the LVC kick in durring the run?

stringfly
01-07-2011, 03:31 PM
Traxxas recommends only a 42mm prop (max) with the stock set up. The stock composite prop is a 42mm with a 1.4 pitch. Will need to try a Octura X442 on it.

Stringfly <>+++

Make-a-Wake
01-07-2011, 03:34 PM
Yep, much sharper and less flex outta do it well...................

oscarel
01-07-2011, 03:43 PM
That makes me feel better, that's about 16% left in your packs...
Did the LVC kick in durring the run?

It didn't kick in during the run but after I pulled it in after the 3rd run and I tried for another.

I got my GPS worked out so I'm going to try one set of runs tonight with 4s and 6s. Apparently the GPS doesn't like more than 5.85V..

One more thing to note, I"m looking at the manual and for the ESC it says 80A continuous and 300A peak so it's got a pretty beefy yet small ESC.

oscarel
01-07-2011, 03:54 PM
Traxxas recommends only a 42mm prop (max) with the stock set up. The stock composite prop is a 42mm with a 1.4 pitch. Will need to try a Octura X442 on it.

Stringfly <>+++

I do have and will try.

Brushless55
01-07-2011, 05:28 PM
It didn't kick in during the run but after I pulled it in after the 3rd run and I tried for another.

I got my GPS worked out so I'm going to try one set of runs tonight with 4s and 6s. Apparently the GPS doesn't like more than 5.85V..

One more thing to note, I"m looking at the manual and for the ESC it says 80A continuous and 300A peak so it's got a pretty beefy yet small ESC.

sweet! :thumbup1:

oscarel
01-07-2011, 09:06 PM
Here's data with x442. I would watch it running with this prop on 6s, it heated up pretty quick when the run was over. Also the boat had a lot of chine walk or prop walk, the back was swinging back and forth and the boat was wobbling side to side at WOT. I was able to get a video on 4s but not 6s and I will post it tomorrow. Also the boat's owner came and picked it up today so this is the end of the testing for now. Hopefully this helps those looking to buy it. With a little adjusting I'd say this is a pretty sweet RTR for the price. I bought a Blackjack last year to get back into boating and I replaced the steerable drive before it ever hit the water and the Spartan I wouldn't change a thing. I don't have any experience with monos and I'm sure the wobbling could easily be corrected with the tabs, but I wasn't going to adjust them with a pair of pliers since I didn't own it! I do see however that Traxxas sells a bolt on adjuster which they should've included.

oscarel
01-07-2011, 09:07 PM
And if anyone is interested I do have the eagle tree bdr files

Checkmateguy01
01-07-2011, 09:29 PM
All this info is great!! My Spartan is just sitting waiting for the ponds/lake to thaw out, still got a way's to go. So, how did it run on 4s?? Any 4s top speed numbers? I have a set of DTX 7-cell NIMH's that i will run for sure, but i'm seriously considering getting a Hobby King Quatro 4 out-put lipo charger and a set of 2s lipo packs just for this boat. Curious if it will be worth the money over the 5000DTX 7 cells or not. Don't need 50+ mph for my lake, upper 30's to 40 mph will be just fine for me!

oscarel
01-07-2011, 09:43 PM
4s is in the first two pics above, 33 I think was max with x442

Checkmateguy01
01-07-2011, 11:04 PM
4s is in the first two pics above, 33 I think was max with x442

Ok, i just wasn't reading the charts right then. Only 33 on 4s huh? How come such a big jump to high 40's -50 mph with 6s? I would think good 7-cell NIMH's should get low-mid 30's, i guess i'll see when ever i get to run it for the first time.

Brushless55
01-08-2011, 12:32 AM
so 47mph with the better prop on 6s? :confused2:
great info man! :thumbup1:

Brushless55
01-08-2011, 12:34 AM
Ok, i just wasn't reading the charts right then. Only 33 on 4s huh? How come such a big jump to high 40's -50 mph with 6s? I would think good 7-cell NIMH's should get low-mid 30's, i guess i'll see when ever i get to run it for the first time.

going from 4s to 6s is a 50% jump in volts
so 33mph on 4s calculates to 49.5mph on 6s (with 50% jump)

Checkmateguy01
01-08-2011, 12:48 AM
going from 4s to 6s is a 50% jump in volts
so 33mph on 4s calculates to 49.5mph on 6s (with 50% jump)

Ahhhh, OK, makes sense! So, then two 2s lipo's is 14.8 volts right?, and two 7 cell NIMH's is 16.8 volts, the NIMH's would be faster than 4s lipo, correct?

Make-a-Wake
01-08-2011, 12:56 AM
Ahhhh, OK, makes sense! So, then two 2s lipo's is 14.8 volts right?, and two 7 cell NIMH's is 16.8 volts, the NIMH's would be faster than 4s lipo, correct?


Actually not, they weigh quite a bit more than lipos, and only put out about 40-45 amps for a high quality one. A 40c 5000 mah lipo puts out 200 amps constant, and will give more than the motor is asking for, hence more "power" more speed. Plus, a fully charged 2s lipo is 8.4 volts and has minimal drop compared to a nimh. Nimhs would come in very hot after a hard run.

Brushless55
01-08-2011, 01:56 AM
Ahhhh, OK, makes sense! So, then two 2s lipo's is 14.8 volts right?, and two 7 cell NIMH's is 16.8 volts, the NIMH's would be faster than 4s lipo, correct?

depends on prop and the grade of cells of the Nimh packs
but most likely the lipo packs will be faster because they put out more amps for the motor to run faster

when I get mine, I'm going to cycle the Nimh packs a few times through my Revo and then try them in the Spartan and see what speeds I get vs my 4s packs

Checkmateguy01
01-08-2011, 11:33 AM
depends on prop and the grade of cells of the Nimh packs
but most likely the lipo packs will be faster because they put out more amps for the motor to run faster

when I get mine, I'm going to cycle the Nimh packs a few times through my Revo and then try them in the Spartan and see what speeds I get vs my 4s packs

7-cells or 6-cells? I'm curious as to how the boat is really going to run on NIMH's, that's what i'll be using the majority of the time. You can run one 2s pack and one 3s pack in the Spartan (5s) as long as they are the same MAH and C rate right?? 5s would theoretically get it to about 40mph roughly. That may be my other option.

Brushless55
01-08-2011, 11:49 AM
7-cells or 6-cells? I'm curious as to how the boat is really going to run on NIMH's, that's what i'll be using the majority of the time. You can run one 2s pack and one 3s pack in the Spartan (5s) as long as they are the same MAH and C rate right?? 5s would theoretically get it to about 40mph roughly. That may be my other option.

7cell nimh that the boat comes with.. I also have some better ones I use in my ERevo that I'm going to try :thumbup1:
I am going to run 4s, 5s, and 6s and see how she runs
I hope to see 50mph on 5s! :banana:

keithbradley
01-08-2011, 11:49 AM
Ok, here's temp and amp data. Again the GPS unit didn't record. I've got to play with that a little more. I ran it on 4s until I got bored and then 6s. It took on some water today so I wasn't going to sacrifice my cellphone. 4s was a continuous run, 6s there are 3 runs. I had a Garmin 855 in and I recorded high speed of 44 but the boat was bouncing back and forth so I brought it in and removed the GPS. Second run it was also bouncing around and I found the rudder tilted up so I moved it back straight and went for the 3rd run. There is no place to hook up the eagle tree so I had a 1500 3s battery powering it and I would imagine the weight of that plus the GPS would add up almost to another 3s 5000 battery.

What kind of problem are you having with the GPS? I ask because if its not recieving a good strong signal, it will not read accurately. I've gotten high 70's out of a 60mph boat when I had a weak signal. I notice the same in my car, sometimes going under bridges, ect, the mph will jump up for a moment.

If you take enough readings you can tell becaue they just wont be consistant. With a good signal my RCs will duplicate the same mph over and over.
Im not sure if you have room in the spartan, but I have put my gps inside a tupperware container that I velcro'ed to the hull in some of my larger boats. Its good insurance if you DO happen to take on water!

keithbradley
01-08-2011, 11:54 AM
Ahhhh, OK, makes sense! So, then two 2s lipo's is 14.8 volts right?, and two 7 cell NIMH's is 16.8 volts, the NIMH's would be faster than 4s lipo, correct?

The motor/esc will try and pull whatever current it needs to get the job done. When the batteries cant supply teh required current, the voltage will drop. The voltage will most likely end up lower with the nimhs under load.

oscarel
01-08-2011, 12:46 PM
What kind of problem are you having with the GPS? I ask because if its not recieving a good strong signal, it will not read accurately. I've gotten high 70's out of a 60mph boat when I had a weak signal. I notice the same in my car, sometimes going under bridges, ect, the mph will jump up for a moment.

If you take enough readings you can tell becaue they just wont be consistant. With a good signal my RCs will duplicate the same mph over and over.
Im not sure if you have room in the spartan, but I have put my gps inside a tupperware container that I velcro'ed to the hull in some of my larger boats. Its good insurance if you DO happen to take on water!

It turned out that the GPS will not work if the input voltage from BEC is over 5.85 volts, I had it set at 6v. Once I searched on rcgroups and found this it works perfect now. It always worked when doing live capture connected to a PC but seemed to lock on 6v but it would never record.

Steven Vaccaro
01-08-2011, 02:03 PM
Traxxas recommends only a 42mm prop (max) with the stock set up. The stock composite prop is a 42mm with a 1.4 pitch. Will need to try a Octura X442 on it.

Stringfly <>+++

Traxxas got the carbon props from me to test that boat. If they ended up with a 42mm prop there is no guarantee that a x442 will be better. I've run a 2317.42 Graupner and a x442 in one of my race boats and the 2317.42 was faster. I'm sure someones going to ask, so yes the x442 was sharpened, thinned and balanced.

Brushless55
01-08-2011, 02:28 PM
Traxxas got the carbon props from me to test that boat. If they ended up with a 42mm prop there is no guarantee that a x442 will be better. I've run a 2317.42 Graupner and a x442 in one of my race boats and the 2317.42 was faster. I'm sure someones going to ask, so yes the x442 was sharpened, thinned and balanced.

Steven, how much faster would you say the Graupner was?

Steven Vaccaro
01-08-2011, 03:48 PM
Steven, how much faster would you say the Graupner was?

I dont remember. It was back in 2005 at the nats. But it was enough difference in take off speed that I had to quickly switch back to carbon. Please DON'T take this the wrong way. I'm sure I could have found a faster metal prop. I just didn't have the time to do it. I'm just trying to stop people from buying expensive props that "may" be close and not make much of a difference. Which prop is best on the stock Traxxas setup is going to take some testing.

Brushless55
01-08-2011, 06:40 PM
I dont remember. It was back in 2005 at the nats. But it was enough difference in take off speed that I had to quickly switch back to carbon. Please DON'T take this the wrong way. I'm sure I could have found a faster metal prop. I just didn't have the time to do it. I'm just trying to stop people from buying expensive props that "may" be close and not make much of a difference. Which prop is best on the stock Traxxas setup is going to take some testing.

thank you!
I have one of these Spartans on the way

JPriami
01-08-2011, 08:15 PM
I have one on order too. I hope I'm able to break 50mph with a few changes. Otherwise it will be a bit boring.

Brushless55
01-08-2011, 08:25 PM
I sure hope the 50mph advertised, is not the tops of this thing
stock

JPriami
01-08-2011, 08:30 PM
Nah I think modding you can always make something faster. But will it handle higher speeds? That's what we will find out :)

Brushless55
01-08-2011, 08:37 PM
Nah I think modding you can always make something faster. But will it handle higher speeds? That's what we will find out :)

we will find out with one of my CC1520's! :banana:

tim v
01-09-2011, 07:34 PM
any of you guys have a water issue ? no water coming through my buddy for cooling , he is going to put bigger hose on it...

oscarel
01-09-2011, 07:48 PM
I would also let traxxas know.

Rumdog
01-09-2011, 07:51 PM
Just try blowing through the lines. It should be easy to find where there may be blockage. Check the pickup in the rudder.
How is he sure there was no flow?

martin
01-10-2011, 06:50 AM
I think 2 separate water lines & pick ups are much better, You seem to get less restriction when blowing through the lines than when you have 1 line going to the esc & then through the motor + you get cold water direct to the motor rather than warm/ hot water from going to the esc before getting to the motor. Also if you should get a blockage with only 1 line cooling esc & motor you can damage both the esc & motor rather than just one of them unless your really unlucky get both lines blocked at the same time. I know this from personal experience with 1 line cooling both getting blocked & frying both the esc & motor. Martin.

Brushless55
01-10-2011, 11:21 AM
Fact is, if your motor is running very hot, then something is wrong
most of us have single cooling setups.. running to the esc then to the motor
so if the motor is damn hot, then either the prop is not the right size, the boat is running way to wet, blockage in the cooling line, or the motor is not the right size for the hull
heck some dont even cool their motors because they have the right motor for the job

martin
01-10-2011, 12:06 PM
It had nothing to do with running wrong props/setup as the boat run perfectly well with acceptable temps for a long time. Simple fact was it got a blockage whilst running which i didnt know off & continued with flat out runs & cooked the esc & motor which was a 3000kv motor. I also wash & blow lines through after each time out but still got a blockage. Martin.

properchopper
01-10-2011, 12:24 PM
Fact is, if your motor is running very hot, then something is wrong
most of us have single cooling setups.. running to the esc then to the motor
so if the motor is damn hot, then either the prop is not the right size, the boat is running way to wet, blockage in the cooling line, or the motor is not the right size for the hull


heck some dont even cool their motors because they have the right motor for the job

:iagree:

Water cooling, at best, provides a "safety zone" , particularly for sport-oriented runtimes. It shouldn't be viewed as a way to save/justify an over-the-limit setup.

Brushless55
01-10-2011, 01:23 PM
[/U]

:iagree:

Water cooling, at best, provides a "safety zone" , particularly for sport-oriented runtimes. It shouldn't be viewed as a way to save/justify an over-the-limit setup .

good way to put it :thumbup1:

Rumdog
01-10-2011, 01:32 PM
It had nothing to do with running wrong props/setup as the boat run perfectly well with acceptable temps for a long time. Simple fact was it got a blockage whilst running which i didnt know off & continued with flat out runs & cooked the esc & motor which was a 3000kv motor. I also wash & blow lines through after each time out but still got a blockage. Martin.

We still talking about the Spartan here?

martin
01-10-2011, 01:50 PM
So you would be happy to run your Spartan as a sport runner with no water cooling, I know i wouldnt. Martin.

Doby
01-10-2011, 02:24 PM
I wouldn't do it on any boat...cooler is better.

martin
01-10-2011, 02:37 PM
Any way what should i consider buying purly for sport/pleasure as most of us probably run & maximum enjoyment between the Spartan, UL1 or the Miss Geico & why. Thanks Martin.

martin
01-10-2011, 02:43 PM
We still talking about the Spartan here?

Sorry, No it wasnt a Spartan. I was just giving the benifit of what happened to me with a blocked water line as i assumed some one had had a blocked line on a Spartan because they had asked under the Spartan thread. Thanks Martin.

Doby
01-10-2011, 02:53 PM
Hmmm...apples, oranges and bannanas......UL-1, great boat for calm conditions and only turning right, seems the early production bugs have been fixed,,,,, Miss Geico seems to be a good all around boat from the many threads on here with a proven power train.......The Spartan is new and unproven yet,,,but seems incouraging.

Brushless55
01-10-2011, 03:07 PM
So you would be happy to run your Spartan as a sport runner with no water cooling, I know i wouldnt. Martin.

uhhhh, not one person said to do so :confused2:

martin
01-10-2011, 03:33 PM
uhhhh, not one person said to do so :confused2:

Just reference to water cooling being a safety zone, I dont think you can generalise that accross the board as some will use set ups fairly conservative & other idiots like myself & im sure there are lots of us that like to push a bit to much. Lets face it we all get the bug to go faster & faster when we know we should draw the line & be satisfied with what we have. But we never learn. I wonder whos going to be the first to blow some thing in the Spartan not being happy at 50mph & looking for more. Thanks Martin.

Brushless55
01-10-2011, 03:48 PM
Just reference to water cooling being a safety zone, I dont think you can generalise that accross the board as some will use set ups fairly conservative & other idiots like myself & im sure there are lots of us that like to push a bit to much. Lets face it we all get the bug to go faster & faster when we know we should draw the line & be satisfied with what we have. But we never learn. I wonder whos going to be the first to blow some thing in the Spartan not being happy at 50mph & looking for more. Thanks Martin.

actually you can have very fast setups without motor cooling with the proper motor to do the job :thumbup1:

When I put a CC1520 in mine I wont have the room I don't think to run a cooler, so I will see how hot that motor gets

oscarel
01-10-2011, 04:15 PM
Yeah, those Castle motors are monsters. The 1717 that I have on an outboard was initially air cooled and it never got hot even pulling spikes over 180A.

martin
01-10-2011, 04:21 PM
actually you can have very fast setups without motor cooling with the proper motor to do the job :thumbup1:

When I put a CC1520 in mine I wont have the room I don't think to run a cooler, so I will see how hot that motor gets
You are probably right that some motors run very cool & you might get away with no cooling ok, But a lot of motors especialy some of slightly cheaper ones run very hot indeed. Not sure if this is down to their design, build quality or inferior materials or all 3. I watched a guy on sunday run his brand new first time on the water DF 25" knock off boat with a fsd 380 motor had the motor seize solid on its 3rd short run. Total run time around 3 minuites in total for all 3 runs, Motor was extremally hot with water cooling working ok & on fairly small prop doing around 35mph. Im tempted by the spartan but an concerned about some of the side to side roll ive seen but that may just be incorrect set up & trim. It will be interesting to see how the hull runs going well past 50mph so i think ill wait & get more feed back as its very early days but first impressions seem very good & their close to delivering on their 50mph out the box which we probably all had some douts to whether it could delivered but looks like it will. So fair dues to Traxxas. Thanks Martin.

Rumdog
01-10-2011, 04:50 PM
Water cooling a RTR boat should only need the single pickup. Most boats really only need one. I ran a single rudder pickup in a HOT setup twin cat. Worked just fine. You can simply just add a T or Y connector to split the incoming water.

Make-a-Wake
01-10-2011, 04:59 PM
Anyone have any vid of a well set up Spartan making some decent passes??? The few i've seen are either straight at you or figure 8's or the batts we're "too far forward" etc......................real vid, not promo................?

martin
01-10-2011, 05:03 PM
it wastnt a water cooling problem as he had lots of water coming through but a motor problem, Not sure if it was seized bearings or a failure inside the motor but their was a metalic bang & the boat stopped instantly. Thanks Martin

Brushless55
01-10-2011, 05:07 PM
Anyone have any vid of a well set up Spartan making some decent passes??? The few i've seen are either straight at you or figure 8's or the batts we're "too far forward" etc......................real vid, not promo................?

:popcorn2:

Brushless55
01-10-2011, 05:09 PM
Yeah, those Castle motors are monsters. The 1717 that I have on an outboard was initially air cooled and it never got hot even pulling spikes over 180A.

pulling 180amps and not getting hot, is impresive! :cool2:

Rumdog
01-10-2011, 05:13 PM
any of you guys have a water issue ? no water coming through my buddy for cooling , he is going to put bigger hose on it...

I'm still referring to this..

martin
01-10-2011, 05:22 PM
Water cooling a RTR boat should only need the single pickup. Most boats really only need one. I ran a single rudder pickup in a HOT setup twin cat. Worked just fine. You can simply just add a T or Y connector to split the incoming water.

I agree 100% that 1 pick up is enough for most boat especialy rtr boats for cooling, The point i was making about having 2 is if you do get a blockage in one & dont notice it youv halfed the odds on potentialy damaging both the esc & motor as one will still have water going to it, Just a bit of extra insurance on expensive parts & no down sides really on 2 pick ups. Thanks Martin.

Brushless55
01-10-2011, 05:45 PM
any of you guys have a water issue ? no water coming through my buddy for cooling , he is going to put bigger hose on it...

take a look at the rudder
make sure the opening is good
I use a point file on my SV rudders to open up the inlet, and I get possibly 50% more volume going through the system

My SV motors with big props like a CF48, never get above 125*

martin
01-10-2011, 06:15 PM
I also open up the hole with a round needle file & also make sure the groove goes right to the leading edge of the blade for increaced flow, Some rudders the groove stops short of the leading edge. Thanks Martin.

oscarel
01-11-2011, 07:51 PM
Here you go, it's not the best quality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOshzDb6s58

JPriami
01-11-2011, 07:58 PM
Thanks for the vid

Rumdog
01-11-2011, 08:32 PM
looks good!

Checkmateguy01
01-11-2011, 09:57 PM
One of the better video's so far, looks like it handles really nice on 4s and is pretty quick. Was that still about 33 mph like the data showed?

Make-a-Wake
01-11-2011, 10:03 PM
Thanks for the vid................6s outta be a hoot!

oscarel
01-11-2011, 10:06 PM
One of the better video's so far, looks like it handles really nice on 4s and is pretty quick. Was that still about 33 mph like the data showed?

Yes, that was the run from the data in post #36 for 4s.

GeoVW72
01-11-2011, 10:29 PM
Here you go, it's not the best quality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOshzDb6s58

Isn't that the same pond traxxas used

Make-a-Wake
01-11-2011, 10:32 PM
Isn't that the same pond traxxas used


Thats the first thing i thought of when the vid came up!

oscarel
01-11-2011, 10:34 PM
I even used the same park table!

Brushless55
01-11-2011, 11:26 PM
Was this with the stock prop Oscar?

oscarel
01-11-2011, 11:29 PM
No, that was with X442.

GeoVW72
01-11-2011, 11:35 PM
:laugh: thought it looked the same, had to find the other videos to compare

I still don't have a boat, but I did get a VXL-6s and motor on ebay
had fun today tearing them apart.

the "stainless" hardware is bad:thumbsdown: screws are still somewhat magnetic :glare: too soft, stripped the head on one
if anyone is going to attempt to take the motor apart you at least need to heat the end caps up to loosen the thread-lock
the motor jacket is interesting(turned inside-out for pic) seems loose but works :confused2:

esc is sealed in goo, good rubycon caps. anything else would require getting it out of the goo, but looks similar to a castle to me
'course I'm looking for it to be a castle, board length looks the same, lower controller board bump

any thoughts on escs designed similar to castle's? :Peace_Sign:

Brushless55
01-11-2011, 11:40 PM
:laugh: thought it looked the same, had to find the other videos to compare

I still don't have a boat, but I did get a VXL-6s and motor on ebay
had fun today tearing them apart.

the "stainless" hardware is bad:thumbsdown: screws are still somewhat magnetic :glare: too soft, stripped the head on one
if anyone is going to attempt to take the motor apart you at least need to heat the end caps up to loosen the thread-lock
the motor jacket is interesting(turned inside-out for pic) seems loose but works :confused2:

esc is sealed in goo, good rubycon caps. anything else would require getting it out of the goo, but looks similar to a castle to me
'course I'm looking for it to be a castle, board length looks the same, lower controller board bump

any thoughts on escs designed similar to castle's? :Peace_Sign:

Traxxas does work with Castle on other products they have

if you don't mind me asking, how much did you have to pay for the motor?
Thanks for the killer picks of the insides:thumbup1:

Make-a-Wake
01-11-2011, 11:57 PM
Great pics!

GeoVW72
01-11-2011, 11:59 PM
Always happy to pull something apart :biggrin:
sent an offer of $230 to someone who was parting out a boat, he sold the hull and accepted the offer :thumbup1:
castle does work with traxxas, but not directly designing as far as I know

oscarel
01-12-2011, 12:02 AM
Yeah, those are great pics.

Brushless55
01-12-2011, 12:14 AM
Always happy to pull something apart :biggrin:
sent an offer of $230 to someone who was parting out a boat, he sold the hull and accepted the offer :thumbup1:
castle does work with traxxas, but not directly designing as far as I know

$230! rip off :w00t:
traxxas does use Castle products
but then again this could be an esc straight from Taiwan

martin
01-12-2011, 07:18 AM
Theirs magnetic & non magnetic stainless steel, The magnetic has more iron content. It is usually tougher than the non magnetic but does get traces of rust spots on it due to the extra iron content. I had a simular silicon water jacket come on an Hor Osprey fitted with a Leopard 4074, The jacket had splits in the silicon where both brass pipes had been put in, The silicon was very thin in places. Luckily i noticed it before i ran it otherwise id have had pumped water into the boat. So i would do a water test with silicon jackets just to make sure its water tight. Thanks Martin.

Brushless55
01-12-2011, 10:54 AM
Not sure yet, but I may cancel my Spart order at Tower for the new
AquaCraft Motley Crew Off-Shore FE Catamaran Boat :rockon2:
designed with racers in mind
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0002p?M=AQU

GeoVW72
01-13-2011, 10:17 PM
$230! rip off :w00t:
traxxas does use Castle products
but then again this could be an esc straight from Taiwan

:huh: that was for the motor-esc (http://cgi.ebay.com/TRAXXAS-SPARTAN-VXL-6s-ESC-540XL-BRUSHLESS-MOTOR-5708-/290518305722?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a43d8bba) and bits, knowing what I know :spy: it was well worth it :thumbup:

but I do have to declare
bloody :cursing: shenanigans
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nneVYSYZjrY/TS-8G23enUI/AAAAAAAAAEo/K8p4q0GX_k4/s288/IMG_20110113_191634.jpg
went to H-Town to see what they had and there were two spartans on the shelf. apparently been there for four weeks and the price matching guy wasn't there, so I have to go back tomorrow and haggle.
boats been on back order at the shop since it was announced and I had talked to the manager at H-Town about the boats and he said they were not getting any in

Brushless55
01-13-2011, 10:31 PM
:huh: that was for the motor-esc (http://cgi.ebay.com/TRAXXAS-SPARTAN-VXL-6s-ESC-540XL-BRUSHLESS-MOTOR-5708-/290518305722?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a43d8bba) and bits, knowing what I know :spy: it was well worth it :thumbup:

but I do have to declare
bloody shenanigans
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nneVYSYZjrY/TS-8G23enUI/AAAAAAAAAEo/K8p4q0GX_k4/s288/IMG_20110113_191634.jpg
went to H-Town to see what they had and there were two spartans on the shelf. apparently been there for four weeks and the price matching guy wasn't there, so I have to go back tomorrow and haggle.
boats been on back order at the shop since it was announced and I had talked to the manager at H-Town about the boats and he said they were not getting any in

$230 for that motor and that esc... :roflol:
Knowing what you know??? I think I'll buy some just to sell the parts to you! :w00t:

Oh yeah, the HT near me has two as well

GeoVW72
01-14-2011, 12:04 AM
:cursing: I hate when they send the good stuff to H-Town

:laugh:
It may be that motor (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TRA3381) and esc (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TRA3385), but for spares while the other ones are :flashfire: back at traxxas
which I'm not sure there going to do :confused2:, if they had I would have thought there would have been a riot in texas.

:Peace_Sign:

Brushless55
01-14-2011, 12:17 AM
I was surprised though to see not one but two of those boats at Hobbytown yesterday :rockon2:
mine is still on order with Tower

rugcommunity
02-07-2011, 11:36 PM
any of you guys have a water issue ? no water coming through my buddy for cooling , he is going to put bigger hose on it...

we had a bunch of these issues - we wound up redoing the entire cooling system. we made the intake larger on the rudder (top and bottom), larger cooling hoses, larger outlet.

once we did this - water was flowing through the system flawlessly. easily visible even at high speeds.

JPriami
02-07-2011, 11:42 PM
Yeah that's a good idea and works well.

rugcommunity
02-07-2011, 11:52 PM
Yeah that's a good idea and works well.

do you any photos of your set up? someone mentioned on another thread that you were hitting 57mph on the spartan.. we switched out the esc and motor and got great run times.. wanted to compare and maybe "borrow" some of your ideas/config :D

Make-a-Wake
02-08-2011, 12:51 AM
do you any photos of your set up? someone mentioned on another thread that you were hitting 57mph on the spartan.. we switched out the esc and motor and got great run times.. wanted to compare and maybe "borrow" some of your ideas/config :D

He sure is.....................with a fat 4 pole Leopard motor, a upgraded ESC and a real prop.................

rugcommunity
02-08-2011, 01:01 AM
He sure is.....................with a fat 4 pole Leopard motor, a upgraded ESC and a real prop.................

ofcourse - i am more concerned with ihs prop choices.. our boat has an upgraded leopard motor and esc as well.. except we are running a 120a esc instead of a 180a..

which prop are you using?

JPriami
02-08-2011, 01:08 AM
M445 past few times

JPriami
02-08-2011, 09:34 AM
ofcourse - i am more concerned with ihs prop choices.. our boat has an upgraded leopard motor and esc as well.. except we are running a 120a esc instead of a 180a..

which prop are you using?

What model leopard motor did you go with?

Make-a-Wake
02-08-2011, 10:14 PM
Just thought of something!

Does someone have their Spartan box or Instruction manual handy?

Is there any type of "disclaimer" printed on either as to how they achieved the 50???

You know.........ambient air temp, mah and C rating of lipo used etc..................????

Most likely will be in small writing...................just curious about this............

GeoVW72
02-08-2011, 10:41 PM
Make-a-Wake, nope nothing about how they did it.
Traxxas manual (http://traxxas.com/products/models/marine/5708spartan-downloads#manual)
just a small note on +5000mah on page four. :ThumbsDown01:

Brushless55
02-08-2011, 11:03 PM
Just thought of something!

Does someone have their Spartan box or Instruction manual handy?

Is there any type of "disclaimer" printed on either as to how they achieved the 50???

You know.........ambient air temp, mah and C rating of lipo used etc..................????

Most likely will be in small writing...................just curious about this............

On my box it says "50mph+ on 6s" :glare:

mickvk
02-13-2011, 08:15 PM
I didn't want to start a whole new thread just to add one comment, but I upgraded my radio because I wanted a timer and I just hate the RTR feel of Traxxas' transmitter. Plus I'd rather watch the temp rather than just have a thermal cutoff. So swapped out radio and spliced the right connection on to the temp sensor. However it didn't work. Apparently traxxas doesn't use the same thermal sensor that Spektrum and Eagletree use. So I had to swap out the sensor as well. I just figured I would make a note of it here incase anybody else has the same idea, maybe it will save you some frustration.

JPriami
02-13-2011, 09:03 PM
I think it's just a measurement of resistance to ground on most thermosistors. I wonder if it's case of not enough resistance if you could add another resistor? But if it's too much then I guess you can't take away lol. Cut it in half? ;)

Make-a-Wake
02-15-2011, 09:47 PM
Just looked at the Spartan listing here on OSE..............NOT to buy it, just out of curiosity.

Check out what Has been listed under "comments".............maybe Steven made a little edit based on the real world results...............good idea in my opinion:smile:

The listing copied and pasted:

COMMENTS:
Availible in Red or Blue Hull Colors.
* Runs 30mph out of the box.
* Runs close to 50mph with 2 optional 3s lipo packs.

mickvk
02-16-2011, 10:01 AM
Just looked at the Spartan listing here on OSE..............NOT to buy it, just out of curiosity.

Check out what Has been listed under "comments".............maybe Steven made a little edit based on the real world results...............good idea in my opinion:smile:

The listing copied and pasted:

COMMENTS:
Availible in Red or Blue Hull Colors.
* Runs 30mph out of the box.
* Runs close to 50mph with 2 optional 3s lipo packs.

Oh c'mon, let the entry level products and users be. We all had to start somewhere :thumbup1:

JPriami
02-16-2011, 10:59 AM
Lol. Yeah my first start was a cheap $25 boat off eBay some nqd vee with twin drives. Did about 10/12mph. Ran it a few time in the pond next to the house and decided I liked rc boating and wanted to do more. Now years later and several thousands spent, I'm still going and having fun with this aspect of rc hobby.

Joeyhatch11
02-16-2011, 01:12 PM
So what do you guys think of the new Spartan? I'm in the market but have been advised against it because of high temps and ESC frying. I was only planning on running it on 7.4, 11.1, ans 14.8v's. Do you think it's worth the money or should I spend it on something "better"? Thanks, Joe

wilsta67
02-16-2011, 01:26 PM
So what do you guys think of the new Spartan? I'm in the market but have been advised against it because of high temps and ESC frying. I was only planning on running it on 7.4, 11.1, ans 14.8v's. Do you think it's worth the money or should I spend it on something "better"? Thanks, Joe
dont even bother mate! forget the boat even exists. its as slow as with the stock batteries.
and it just cant handle lipos. the boat is having lots of issues.
just stay away you will regret it if you buy it.

mickvk
02-16-2011, 01:51 PM
So what do you guys think of the new Spartan? I'm in the market but have been advised against it because of high temps and ESC frying. I was only planning on running it on 7.4, 11.1, ans 14.8v's. Do you think it's worth the money or should I spend it on something "better"? Thanks, Joe

I'm assuming it's your first boat or close to it? If you're cool with running fast entry level speeds on 14.8v, like in the 30s then this could be a great boat for you. I would say you need some experience and the ability to detect warning signs if running 5S or 6S. The stock batteries are small and weak but I think the boat is a decent starter - it's light, has a decent XL motor, and it has thermal protection (and it's even supposed to work!) for the motor as well as the ESC... But sheet happens for any model. So keep an eye on temps and try to run with folks that have some experience.

A "Better". Hmm. Supervee 27 comes to mind. But it's pretty smallish. Black jack 26, small again, and that steerable outdrive is not for beginners. Let's see, Shockwave? I don't know looks like a small version of the Spartan to me. I say go for it. Tower Hobbies has a good discount program. I think I've already gotten my $350 worth of fun out of mine.

Brushless55
02-16-2011, 01:53 PM
if you stay on 4s this boat is good..
but 6s... not so

Joeyhatch11
02-16-2011, 02:07 PM
SuperVee is a no go only because it states that it still needs a $90 ESC to run lipos. Im sure at some point down the road I'll be looking for bigger and better but for now I want something decent that I can run on 7.4, 11.1 and 14.8v lipos.

Brushless55
02-16-2011, 02:13 PM
SuperVee is a no go only because it states that it still needs a $90 ESC to run lipos. Im sure at some point down the road I'll be looking for bigger and better but for now I want something decent that I can run on 7.4, 11.1 and 14.8v lipos.

you do not need a different esc to run lipo in a SV27
and they do not state that you need a new esc.. wrong info whoever told you that :doh:
you can add a lvc or a $3 lvc buzzer
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=180582306356&si=%252BTCHwrEiuYrq3nD35PKRXL0XGbw%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT

Joeyhatch11
02-16-2011, 02:29 PM
On towerhobbies it states that the SuperVee comes with a 45A esc and if lipos are going to be used they suggest an upgrade to the 60A esc. Its ok though, I was looking on Pro Boats website and I'm liking the ShockWave. Runs on 7.4 and 11.1v lipos and that's what I have plenty of. If anything I can always upgrade the motor and ESC later when I'm looking for some 14.8v action right?

Brushless55
02-16-2011, 02:37 PM
On towerhobbies it states that the SuperVee comes with a 45A esc and if lipos are going to be used they suggest an upgrade to the 60A esc. Its ok though, I was looking on Pro Boats website and I'm liking the ShockWave. Runs on 7.4 and 11.1v lipos and that's what I have plenty of. If anything I can always upgrade the motor and ESC later when I'm looking for some 14.8v action right?

so funny!
that's what Tower says not Aquacraft.. looks like Tower is low on cash and wants to sell another esc :doh:
no one I know who owns a SV27 replaced the esc to run lipos
we time our runs of add a lvc...
You do not need to replace the esc to run lipo, most any and all esc's can run lipo

JPriami
02-16-2011, 02:49 PM
Tower says that if you buy a Spartan you need to buy another boat to be able to run at the 50mph mark traxxas advertised. And they sell a tow cable that you hook to the back of the 50mph boat that tows the spartan up to speed.

Joeyhatch11
02-16-2011, 02:58 PM
So someone please show me a boat that'll run 7.4v and 11.1v lipos. I've just read up on the ShockWave as well and they say it can't handle the 11.1v power without blowing out the joints in the rear. Is there such a thing as a boat that's RTR that can do what it's advertised to do? LOL Or what about a kit? Something that is ARTR that I can throw my Airtronics Rx in and set-up?

wilsta67
02-16-2011, 03:01 PM
So someone please show me a boat that'll run 7.4v and 11.1v lipos. I've just read up on the ShockWave as well and they say it can't handle the 11.1v power without blowing out the joints in the rear. Is there such a thing as a boat that's RTR that can do what it's advertised to do? LOL Or what about a kit? Something that is ARTR that I can throw my Airtronics Rx in and set-up?

why do you want to run this specific battery sizes?

mickvk
02-16-2011, 03:01 PM
It might just be semantics, but manufacturers have guidelines that they have to follow for saying Lipo compatible. Low voltage cutoff is considered reasonably necessary, so that's why they say the supervee 27 esc is not compatible. That's coming from the guys who have to warranty the stuff! :) If you are aware of your current consumption, you can run without LVC. Amperage is another consideration for the SV27l. I would say that 4S is probably too much for the stock prop. Amperage peaks to 75A - not good for the esc and actually it's 10% beyond the 1000 peak wattage recommended for the ammo motor.

back to the Spartan though, 2S is unusable. 3S is dog slow. 4S is drivable. If you have 2S, use two in series.

Joeyhatch11
02-16-2011, 03:06 PM
But that's listed as needing 2, 7.4v lipos always running 14.8v. With running 14.8v and having 5000mah what kind of run times will that yield?

mickvk
02-16-2011, 03:16 PM
So someone please show me a boat that'll run 7.4v and 11.1v lipos. I've just read up on the ShockWave as well and they say it can't handle the 11.1v power without blowing out the joints in the rear. Is there such a thing as a boat that's RTR that can do what it's advertised to do? LOL Or what about a kit? Something that is ARTR that I can throw my Airtronics Rx in and set-up?

The shockwave is hot on 3S. 32,000 unloaded RPM. But I have one running 38MPH and it's a riot. Of course the stock ESC will not pass 132 peak amps. I don't recommend keeping your requirements down to the battery you have. Never compromise what you really want for what you can afford. You may have to wait out your budget problem or whatever the issue is and then get the right boat.

wilsta67
02-16-2011, 03:20 PM
this runs on 3s
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZEK5&P=0

Joeyhatch11
02-16-2011, 03:22 PM
I have 6, 7.4v lipos and 4, 11.1v lipos. I'm hopping to not have to upgrade anything in terms of the boat or lipos I have on hand. So I'm just looking for the best bang for the buck. As of right now I'm really considering The ProBoat Miss Geico I love the look and don't mind running the 14.8v's.

mickvk
02-16-2011, 03:25 PM
But that's listed as needing 2, 7.4v lipos always running 14.8v. With running 14.8v and having 5000mah what kind of run times will that yield?

That would depend on your amp draw. A function of throttle position, prop size and hull resistance. You can use this calculator to do estimations.

http://www.rtideas.com/battcalc/

Spartan 4S, I would guess six mins. I target 80% of battery capacity though, that would be 4000 usable in your example.

Rumdog
02-16-2011, 06:37 PM
It might just be semantics, but manufacturers have guidelines that they have to follow for saying Lipo compatible. Low voltage cutoff is considered reasonably necessary, so that's why they say the supervee 27 esc is not compatible. That's coming from the guys who have to warranty the stuff! :) If you are aware of your current consumption, you can run without LVC. Amperage is another consideration for the SV27l. I would say that 4S is probably too much for the stock prop. Amperage peaks to 75A - not good for the esc and actually it's 10% beyond the 1000 peak wattage recommended for the ammo motor.

back to the Spartan though, 2S is unusable. 3S is dog slow. 4S is drivable. If you have 2S, use two in series.

Are you trying to say that a stock sv 27 with 4s lipo needs a smaller prop? lol. Not true at all. In fact you can prop up to a 45mm prop without incident. The esc is rated at 45 amps but in reality it will take bursts much greater, and is a fantastic FULLY waterproof esc.

Oh yeah.... Spartan sucks.:banana:

Brushless55
02-16-2011, 06:56 PM
It might just be semantics, but manufacturers have guidelines that they have to follow for saying Lipo compatible. Low voltage cutoff is considered reasonably necessary, so that's why they say the supervee 27 esc is not compatible. That's coming from the guys who have to warranty the stuff! :) If you are aware of your current consumption, you can run without LVC. Amperage is another consideration for the SV27l. I would say that 4S is probably too much for the stock prop. Amperage peaks to 75A - not good for the esc and actually it's 10% beyond the 1000 peak wattage recommended for the ammo motor.


funny :confused2:
some moron did a write up on the new SV27R who has no buisness doing such a thing on FE boats.. you can tell by the guys comments on the SV27R :doh:
the stock esc can take way more than 4s in fact I've run 5s on mine with no issues at all except more speed:rockon2:
some have run props bigger than 48mm on the stock motor and esc running 4s, and Darin Jordan was one who raced with his with great results :thumbup1:
I love a CF48 on 4s with mine, and I will try a S225 and S230 next when things melt
this is mine on 5s with a S220 prop (bigger than the stock prop)
temp on motor was 105* and on the esc was 95* on a 2 1/2min run
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww39/filmmaker2009/557mph.jpg

Joeyhatch11
02-16-2011, 07:02 PM
So it's now between the Aquacraft UL-1 or the ProBoat Miss Geico? Ideas/comments? I like that I can use the "easy pay" option on Towerhobbies and also get free shipping.

mickvk
02-16-2011, 08:58 PM
funny :confused2:
some moron did a write up on the new SV27R who has no buisness doing such a thing on FE boats.. you can tell by the guys comments on the SV27R :doh:
the stock esc can take way more than 4s in fact I've run 5s on mine with no issues at all except more speed:rockon2:
some have run props bigger than 48mm on the stock motor and esc running 4s, and Darin Jordan was one who raced with his with great results :thumbup1:
I love a CF48 on 4s with mine, and I will try a S225 and S230 next when things melt
this is mine on 5s with a S220 prop (bigger than the stock prop)
temp on motor was 105* and on the esc was 95* on a 2 1/2min run


Wow, that's low man. Hey, I certainly have things to learn but you have to persuade, not beat it in to me and resort to name calling. Stay classy! :thumbup1:

Brushless55
02-16-2011, 09:36 PM
Wow, that's low man. Hey, I certainly have things to learn but you have to persuade, not beat it in to me and resort to name calling. Stay classy! :thumbup1:

name calling
not you at all, but the guy who did the review of the SV27R could learn a few things from the guys here at OSE at how a FE boat should run
and I'm not trying to persuade you at all.. you have your mind made up on the SV

the comments from the SV review made the boat look lame when in fact it has proven components over and over
the SV has it's own class in many cities and they run stock everything but props
and they run some big props on that stock system without any issues at all
and most every FE user knows FE boats have short runtimes...
in my opinion, new to be boaters who would read that review would look for something else

I just hope that guy is not paid by Traxxas as he may give the Spartan Boat of the year :doh:
I'm still trying to figure that one out :glare:

interesting we have yet to se a review of this boat.....

shctexas
02-17-2011, 05:13 AM
Has anyone else noticed the Traxxas website is down for "maintenace"? I can't help but wonder if they will purge previous Spartan posts. I suspect the discussions over there may have been impacting sales. Odd-timing.

dag-nabit
02-17-2011, 08:33 AM
Has anyone else noticed the Traxxas website is down for "maintenace"? I can't help but wonder if they will purge previous Spartan posts. I suspect the discussions over there may have been impacting sales. Odd-timing.

Funny, I couldn't help but wonder the same thing. They have been deleting selected posts all along, but you can't help wonder if they will take the opportunity to thoroughly scrutinize the Spartan forum and "weed" out anything that could be perceived as negative.

I guess we will know as soon as they get back on line.

As for hurting sales, they can't censor all the other popular RC forums on the web, which reach a much wider audience overall.

If they want to ensure strong sales, they are going to have to fix the problems to restore confidence in the reliability of their products.

Kevin

Joeyhatch11
02-17-2011, 08:34 AM
What do you guys think of the AquaCraft SuperVee 27R Brushless over the UL-1?

dag-nabit
02-17-2011, 09:51 AM
No Experience with the UL-1, but I have a couple of the original SV27's and they have been rock solid. They have provided us with hours of fun.

The SV27R with 2.4 gig radio and bit quicker motor should be a great boat. (1800kv vs 1500kv in the original SV27 I believe)

Kevin

Brushless55
02-17-2011, 10:00 AM
Has anyone else noticed the Traxxas website is down for "maintenace"? I can't help but wonder if they will purge previous Spartan posts. I suspect the discussions over there may have been impacting sales. Odd-timing.

yeah, I've noticed they have beed down for several hours now... interesting to see how the spartan thread looks like after their site is back up


What do you guys think of the AquaCraft SuperVee 27R Brushless over the UL-1?

I have both and like em!
the new SV has the 2.4g radio and a better built motor, same kv
the UL-1 is more on the wild side
between the two, my SV's are my bashers... I can throw them in the water and just nail it without to much worries :banana:

Darin Jordan
02-17-2011, 10:07 AM
I just hope that guy is not paid by Traxxas as he may give the Spartan Boat of the year :doh:
I'm still trying to figure that one out :glare:

Honestly, with the rock-solid offerings from ProBoat and AquaCraft this past year, I find this one a bit odd myself. :confused2:

dag-nabit
02-17-2011, 12:23 PM
I see the Traxxas site is back up.

I checked a few posts that I thought might be on the hit list, and they appear to have survived without edit.

I see they locked out a thread requesting info on programming an aftermarket ESC.

I'm sure we will find a few things deleted, but most of the info appears to be intact, based on a quick glance through a few posts.

Kevin

GeoVW72
02-17-2011, 01:53 PM
The forum side is back up. :confused2:

Traxxas got boat of the year the same way everything else was voted. They posted on their front page the link to the rccaraction vote site and the cursor lemmings followed. That and some grease money made the landslide. They have their catalog taking up 28 pages and the back cover add :olleyes:

wilsta67
02-17-2011, 03:04 PM
I see the Traxxas site is back up.

I checked a few posts that I thought might be on the hit list, and they appear to have survived without edit.

I see they locked out a thread requesting info on programming an aftermarket ESC.

I'm sure we will find a few things deleted, but most of the info appears to be intact, based on a quick glance through a few posts.

Kevin
i got a infraction on the traxxas site because i overrided the word filter lol
i tried to paste a link of hobby kinG and it would not let me, so i typed in hobby king and i got a warning which is called an infraction 5 infractions and your banned lol
i emailed the moderater that gave me the warning and i asked why?
he said its because hobby king stole there traxxas plug design and cloned it lol
i responded with a lol and the traxxas mod replied saying he thought it was sad that i thought it was funny.:ThumbsDown01:
traxxas aught to talk about being sad there the ones selling a toy boat that does not perform the way they advertised it to. and not to mention the thing is catching on fire etc.... NOW THAT'S SAD!!!! :ThumbsDown01:

Joeyhatch11
02-17-2011, 03:11 PM
Lmao

wilsta67
02-17-2011, 03:27 PM
Lmao

NOT TO MENTION I HAVE HAD TO SPEND A FURTHER $500 ON THIS :Sinking:
TO GET IT TO PERFORM >TRAXXAS< NOW THAT IS "VERY VERY SAD"

TazMotorsports
02-17-2011, 03:41 PM
I have been enjoying the Spartan for the past month or so. I drove it with the stock batteries right after Christmas. Very unimpressed! Just after Christmas I purchased some 3s Lipos. VERY IMPRESSED for the first 3 minutes then it became very erratic. Called Traxxas and they asked me to send the boat back to them so instead I sent the center section to them. They replaced the motor and esc. Since then I have had nothing but pure FUN!!!! I put the GPS in a stock boat and was able to see 48MPH. I know it is not 50 but I'm sure with a lil tweaking I can get it there. Other than the initial issue I'm very happy with this Traxxas product. BTW when they sent the equipment back they included a free pair or trim tab adjusters for my inconvience.:thumbup1::thumbup1:

Shawn M
02-17-2011, 03:48 PM
WOW this all could have been prevented if they would have just used better stuff like the hobbyking seaking 120A or 180A with the Leapard 1300Kv 4 pole motor.1000.00 later & you still got a boat that will only do 49mph....HAHAHAHAHA

Brushless55
02-17-2011, 05:31 PM
I have been enjoying the Spartan for the past month or so. I drove it with the stock batteries right after Christmas. Very unimpressed! Just after Christmas I purchased some 3s Lipos. VERY IMPRESSED for the first 3 minutes then it became very erratic. Called Traxxas and they asked me to send the boat back to them so instead I sent the center section to them. They replaced the motor and esc. Since then I have had nothing but pure FUN!!!! I put the GPS in a stock boat and was able to see 48MPH. I know it is not 50 but I'm sure with a lil tweaking I can get it there. Other than the initial issue I'm very happy with this Traxxas product. BTW when they sent the equipment back they included a free pair or trim tab adjusters for my inconvience.:thumbup1::thumbup1:

Traxxas now sucks in so many eyes out there :doh:
I've seen many videos showing 6s runs and not one has gotten close to the so called 50mph + ... low 40's on all the vids
and keep in mind, traxxas does not say 50mph but "50mph + on 6s"everyone running 6s should see constant 50-54mph all day long :spy:

Doby
02-17-2011, 06:55 PM
So we are bitching about 2mph:glare:

Maybe his GPS was off and it was actually doing 50 Mph......but thats not good enough...it has to do 50 + all day long now......

Rumdog
02-17-2011, 07:03 PM
Yep. 48, if it's true.... is not 50 plus. I still find 48 hard to believe. What good is 48, if it's on fire?

Brushless55
02-17-2011, 07:19 PM
Yep. 48, if it's true.... is not 50 plus. I still find 48 hard to believe. What good is 48, if it's on fire?

:iagree:
no one has any actuall proof of such a claim getting close to 50mph stock
and again just like traxxas lame claim is 50mph+ (low 50's):ThumbsDown01:
Rumdog, it's like some cannot read :roflol:

this boat is the biggest joke to come to the RTR market! :doh:

hail to the kings! AQ and PB :buttrock:

Joeyhatch11
02-18-2011, 07:49 AM
Was also told to check out the ProBoat ShockWave 26R. I like the fact that it will run on a single 2S lipo which will allow me to get more run time out of it. Vs using 2x2S in pretty much all other boat mentioned. I have seen on OSE a few Aquacraft SuperVee 27's for $160-225 RTR but if I go that route I'll find myself buying at least 6 more lipos so I can at least spend some good time on the water before having to recharge. With the Shockwave a simple ESC upgrade later will allow me to run 3S and from the videos of this thing on 7.4 and 11.1v it doesn't look that bad. I'm not interested in going fast as hell on the water, at least not yet. This is my first boat and I'm just looking for something to pass the time in the mornings before work and on my days off. With the ShockWave I can always upgrade later if I'm looking to get some 4S action out of her right?

Would be nice to find a boat that can run on 2,3 and 4S.

Brushless55
02-18-2011, 09:32 AM
Was also told to check out the ProBoat ShockWave 26R. I like the fact that it will run on a single 2S lipo which will allow me to get more run time out of it. Vs using 2x2S in pretty much all other boat mentioned. I have seen on OSE a few Aquacraft SuperVee 27's for $160-225 RTR but if I go that route I'll find myself buying at least 6 more lipos so I can at least spend some good time on the water before having to recharge. With the Shockwave a simple ESC upgrade later will allow me to run 3S and from the videos of this thing on 7.4 and 11.1v it doesn't look that bad. I'm not interested in going fast as hell on the water, at least not yet. This is my first boat and I'm just looking for something to pass the time in the mornings before work and on my days off. With the ShockWave I can always upgrade later if I'm looking to get some 4S action out of her right?

Would be nice to find a boat that can run on 2,3 and 4S.

how big are your packs?

oscarel
02-18-2011, 01:54 PM
Traxxas now sucks in so many eyes out there :doh:
I've seen many videos showing 6s runs and not one has gotten close to the so called 50mph + ... low 40's on all the vids
and keep in mind, traxxas does not say 50mph but "50mph + on 6s"everyone running 6s should see constant 50-54mph all day long :spy:

One of my first posts in this thread was Eagle Tree data showing 46.3 so there is data out showing more than low 40's. I'll see if I can get more data with fresh packs. This was with a boat pulled right from the box with no trimming done, just placement of batteries.

Also, for the cooling issues here's something to try. File the leading edge of the rudder water inlet till it comes through as seen in these pics. From what I've witnessed there seems to be an air bubble that forms and doesn't allow water to flow when running at speed.

Doby
02-18-2011, 03:11 PM
Good tip:thumbup1:...but I have to ask...how the heck did you see the air bubble when the boat was running:rofl:

oscarel
02-18-2011, 03:30 PM
I didn't see it, but it doesn't flow when running just an educated guess. With this mod there is a steady stream flowing when there wasn't before.

Brushless55
02-18-2011, 04:08 PM
One of my first posts in this thread was Eagle Tree data showing 46.3 so there is data out showing more than low 40's. I'll see if I can get more data with fresh packs. This was with a boat pulled right from the box with no trimming done, just placement of batteries.

Also, for the cooling issues here's something to try. File the leading edge of the rudder water inlet till it comes through as seen in these pics. From what I've witnessed there seems to be an air bubble that forms and doesn't allow water to flow when running at speed.

46mph is decent... for 6s?
but I hope someone can post us a video of a stock Spartan running low 50's like traxxas claims.. :thumbup1:

I use a point file and open up the back part of the pickup in the rudder it will pull out the metal just a tad and make for a small scoop
that's what I do on all my rudders and it works great :beerchug:

oscarel
02-18-2011, 05:05 PM
Yeah, for whatever reason when this boat was first run there was a good stream coming out. The last couple of times I've gone out with Butch there was nothing and there was not a drop of water coming out. We were given this rudder to try and at slower speeds there's now a very good stream coming out.

Brushless55
02-18-2011, 05:24 PM
Yeah, for whatever reason when this boat was first run there was a good stream coming out. The last couple of times I've gone out with Butch there was nothing and there was not a drop of water coming out. We were given this rudder to try and at slower speeds there's now a very good stream coming out.

give us a pic bro! :spy:
so there is good flow running slow and fast?

Joeyhatch11
02-18-2011, 07:15 PM
I've got 6x2S 5000mah lipos, 20C/30 burst. I've read that some ESC say to have more than 25/30C of constant discharge rate but I use these Lipos on my 1/8 Associated RC8e and they hold up just fine. So I'm assuming they'll be good with the boat.

oscarel
02-18-2011, 07:20 PM
I wouldn't assume that, I believe boats are a lot harder on equipment since the spikes with the prop biting and letting loose will cause much greater amp spikes than you see on land and air based equipment.

Joeyhatch11
02-18-2011, 07:28 PM
Well what are your thoughts on the shockwave 26r? Someone over on RCU said there junk and the hull are cheap thin plastic.

Brushless55
02-18-2011, 07:57 PM
I've got 6x2S 5000mah lipos, 20C/30 burst. I've read that some ESC say to have more than 25/30C of constant discharge rate but I use these Lipos on my 1/8 Associated RC8e and they hold up just fine. So I'm assuming they'll be good with the boat.

the esc is rated at 80amps constant
you will have about 100amps cont. out of those packs and stock this boat is pulling about 35-40amps cont. so they should work just fine
the spikes though can be very high
give them a try and watch the temps on them


Well what are your thoughts on the shockwave 26r? Someone over on RCU said there junk and the hull are cheap thin plastic.

I would stay away form that boat
if you have 6 packs then a MG or SV and even the new AQ Cat will be a great choice for those packs and you will have 3 runs :thumbup1:

Joeyhatch11
02-18-2011, 08:14 PM
Yeah I'm over on TowerHobbies now looking at the Aquacraft SuperVee 27R. I'm going to bite the bullet and get one. At some point in the next month or 2 I'll just have to place another order on HobbyCity and get another4-6 lipos. With 5000mah and 14.4v, how long are my run times expected to be with moderate throttling? Thanks guys, Joe

Joeyhatch11
02-18-2011, 08:17 PM
Looking at videos on youtube a lot of guys are pretty much running wide open and there about 5-6 minutes long so I'm guessing with 1/2 throttle runs I'd get a good 8-10?

Make-a-Wake
02-18-2011, 08:48 PM
You know what else..................this is one of, if not the top FE forum, and highly knowledgable folks here are upgrading tubing diameter, boring out the rudder pickup, tweaking the tabs and cog...............and STILL cant hit 50 with a stock boat...............

The average "Dad with his son" will buy it, throw it in the local pond and WOT it up to the low 40's.....................til it combusts................send it back, or get a refund, then he'll say "son, boating is just not a good hobby........too difficult and expensive, lets go bowling".......................thats the sad part.:crying:

oscarel
02-18-2011, 08:56 PM
Yeah, that is true. I'm trying to not let that happen with the friend that bought it. He told me today he's getting frustrated so I'm trying my best to help him as much as possible. Unfortunately this is like most things new, it takes a little to get it right. I know when I got back into boats I bought a Blackjack 26 and was upgrading before it ever hit the water, so Traxxas isn't the only one to need tweaking to get things right. Remember this thread http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=3044

Brushless55
02-18-2011, 09:13 PM
Yeah, that is true. I'm trying to not let that happen with the friend that bought it. He told me today he's getting frustrated so I'm trying my best to help him as much as possible. Unfortunately this is like most things new, it takes a little to get it right. I know when I got back into boats I bought a Blackjack 26 and was upgrading before it ever hit the water, so Traxxas isn't the only one to need tweaking to get things right. Remember this thread http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=3044

well that thread was started 3 years ago and we have moved way beyond those issues today.. I hope
with all the money traxxas has, they should have hit this one out of the park :glare:



You know what else..................this is one of, if not the top FE forum, and highly knowledgable folks here are upgrading tubing diameter, boring out the rudder pickup, tweaking the tabs and cog...............and STILL cant hit 50 with a stock boat...............

The average "Dad with his son" will buy it, throw it in the local pond and WOT it up to the low 40's.....................til it combusts................send it back, or get a refund, then he'll say "son, boating is just not a good hobby........too difficult and expensive, lets go bowling".......................thats the sad part.:crying:

that is the biggest reason I started posting questions and concerns about the durability of the motor and esc on this RTR when info first came out about it (and so many dissed me for that..:doh:)
to many now are looking at something else with all the bad comments and finding in threads all over the WWW
and how many really know how to set up a boat out of the box to maximize its performance? well for me after several years, I'm still learning
so for the newbies, they are and will have issues just getting past the heat issues


Looking at videos on youtube a lot of guys are pretty much running wide open and there about 5-6 minutes long so I'm guessing with 1/2 throttle runs I'd get a good 8-10?

yep, you should get 8min or so on light throttle, but bro when you hit the switch, you will run WOT :rockon2:
be sure to get a lvc or some kind of buzzer for the packs :thumbup1:

JPriami
02-18-2011, 10:04 PM
Well the good thing is that there are some people who own Spartans that are a bit mechanically inclined and enjoy a challenge that are showing what you can do to stock OEM equipment to make it function better. As long as it dosent have internal electrical issues that will fail regardless. like esc's on fire etc.
And then there are some that have done the above mentioned to show others what to do for help, then said screw it & have gone all out and gutted the thing to make the electronics rock solid that dont want to deal with the stock equipment and below 50mph speeds. Then ironing out issues with stability above 50mph. So far Ive mastered 54MPH and stable. Now if i can finagle more mph out of it and keep the stability id be happy. I was really shooting for 60 for what ive got in it thus far. Just not sure its going to get there with out crashing into oblivion.

If traxxas can, would, could, should, get the issues worked out and advertise the boat as 45+mph it would really be a great starter boat for those wanting something like this. Once bitten by a quick boat its hard to stop. You want more. So it would get more people involved, then help them learn about it all. They will see faster, better, & fiberglass boats catch their attention and well..you know the drill.

Make-a-Wake
02-18-2011, 10:12 PM
Just for kicks i "built" a DF35 in my mind.............I totaled up the hull and hardware cost from OSE(rudder, stinger, flex, prop etc...), added a Leopard 4082 and a T180 esc.......all at the cheapest price i could find.....................and added about 50 bucks for servo mount, brass tube........blah blah blah.....................and it came out to around $445. This would be a high quality boat for not much more at all, assuming of course you had a radio which most do anyways...................

GeoVW72
02-19-2011, 01:06 AM
JPriami: It's unfortunate, but the general public really lacks any mechanical ability. They want nitro because it's "fast":olleyes: and sound cool, but they won't tune and want "tune-ups" and LHS's to have their exceed parts :glare: The stereo type is sad but true. had a kid with a broken SW26rs that literally brought it in full of water :huh:; receiver was dead and the replacement was "defective" because the dog swamped the boat.

Make-a-Wake: You're viewing this from an odd angle. By all means build the boat, add a radio and cheap batts and put it on ebay as the spartan killer for $475 and offer tech support, I doubt you'll be happy.

Brushless55: everything new has issues, the way they are handled is key. Traxxas has been doing the worst job. They seem too large to quickly respond to issues and interests, they finally have 17mm hexes for the slashes :doh:

The one bit of information I would be curious to know is when Tim Roberts(the designer) left Traxxas, that and the fact that their driver Steve Slayden left makes me wonder if they are putting price over design.
Tim knew the boat needed a 4 pole, but the cost per unit was too much, says the bean counters.

Things are starting to thaw out here, anyone know the part # for the ice breaker attachment? Interest in boats is also up, prepare for the next wave of noobs :Peace_Sign:

Doby
02-19-2011, 10:56 AM
Well said...but it will fall on deaf ears.

properchopper
02-19-2011, 11:40 AM
Wel it's raining today, I'm a little bored, so here goes : I believe that most of the banter/evaluation of the Spartan here on OSE is really "preaching to the choir". I'll go out on a limb here and say that a reasonably good portion of OSE forum members have been in it long enough to "know better" and have experience with higher performance rigs that were developed by finding out what's realistic and what's not. Clearly, Traxxas is a big enough and well established enough enterprise to perform some semblence of marketing research to find out what their target market is for the Spartan, and where the greatest number of purchases will come from. If you consider how many forum members there are here (lots), and count the number of us that actually bought a Spartan, the number's very small, and those that did are already modding them (good grief) to wring out more performance. I'd say that Traxxas is really targeting the "first boat" market segment ( few of which are in the OSE choir) for the greatest return on their investment, which for them is good business practice. It's easy for the more experienced boaters to observe that Traxxas "shot themselves in the foot " with some rather optimistic performance claims, but know that ( I'll bet) there are lots of happy newbies getting their feet wet ( sorry, intentional pun) with the Spartan and may, hopefully one day journey into the realm of higher end stuff. Be gentle with these folks, they one day may be the ones beating you into turn one !

Doby
02-19-2011, 11:54 AM
Again.....Well said...but it will fall on ....... why bother..

JPriami
02-19-2011, 11:58 AM
What are you saying I can't hear you? Lol. Just kidding. :D

Doby
02-19-2011, 12:03 PM
What are you saying I can't hear you? Lol. Just kidding. :D

:hug1:

properchopper
02-19-2011, 12:37 PM
Again.....Well said...but it will fall on ....... why bother..

That's exactly my point. We're all preaching to the choir :Praying: I'd say that Traxxas could care less what more sophisticated boaters think about the boat. They plant their marketing seeds in the soil of the ultra-newbie looking for a visually attractive, big box-art product. The only reasing I'm "bothering" is because hopefully, one day these Spartan folks may find their way here and we can welcome them and continue to grow and promote this FE thang . Heck, I think I'll polish some props 'till the sun re-appears. :Peace_Sign:

Doby
02-19-2011, 12:48 PM
I wasn't refering to Traxxas with my comments....

Rumdog
02-19-2011, 01:33 PM
I guess you guys haven't noticed all the new members here wondering why their Spartans are going up in flames?
Doby, do YOU have an oinion, or are you just going to give everyone who does a hard time? Traxxas being the big company they are, is appealing to a very large market. A lot of guys trying a boat for the first time, will buy the Traxxas. Why not? It comes fully RTR, and claims 50 plus mph. Most guys will buy just because of the speed claim and that it looks cool and for no other reason. When esc's start smoking, and motors start frying... and their new lipos get ruined, there is a VERY good chance that FE boats will leave a bad tast in their mouth. KIs that good for the sport? No.
Traxxas' ability to throw cash around for marketing and winning so-called boat of the year is not a good thing for this hobby. Look at all of the GOOD rtr's coming out that work well right out of the box. The newbie aint gonna buy it because it don't say 50 plus on the box.

properchopper
02-19-2011, 01:36 PM
I wasn't refering to Traxxas with my comments....

Oops, don't want to create any mixups, sorry. And I just love your pups- I'm unfortunately dogless but hope someday...

Brushless55
02-19-2011, 02:27 PM
That's exactly my point. We're all preaching to the choir :Praying: I'd say that Traxxas could care less what more sophisticated boaters think about the boat. They plant their marketing seeds in the soil of the ultra-newbie looking for a visually attracrive, big box-art product. The only reasing I'm "bothering" is because hopefully, one day these Spartan folks may find their way here and we can welcome them and continue to grow and promote this FE thang . Heck, I think I'll polish some props 'till the sun re-appears. :Peace_Sign:

:iagree:


I guess you guys haven't noticed all the new members here wondering why their Spartans are going up in flames?
Doby, do YOU have an oinion, or are you just going to give everyone who does a hard time? Traxxas being the big company they are, is appealing to a very large market. A lot of guys trying a boat for the first time, will buy the Traxxas. Why not? It comes fully RTR, and claims 50 plus mph. Most guys will buy just because of the speed claim and that it looks cool and for no other reason. When esc's start smoking, and motors start frying... and their new lipos get ruined, there is a VERY good chance that FE boats will leave a bad tast in their mouth. KIs that good for the sport? No.
Traxxas' ability to throw cash around for marketing and winning so-called boat of the year is not a good thing for this hobby. Look at all of the GOOD rtr's coming out that work well right out of the box. The newbie aint gonna buy it because it don't say 50 plus on the box.

Well said Rum! :beerchug:

dag-nabit
02-19-2011, 03:31 PM
Some good may come of all this.

Set aside the problems the Spartan is having for a moment, and think about the target market.

Traxxas, Aquacraft, Proboat, and everyone else is in the business to sell boats (and other stuff).

If the Spartan raises the expectations of consumers to wanting bigger, better, faster, we may start to see some very exciting RTR offerings coming out from the other players in the next 12-18 months.

Kevin

JPriami
02-19-2011, 07:07 PM
If this boat did 50+ MPH out of the box and had no real problems for an RTR boat doing that under for $400 Im willing to bet the farm that even some experienced boaters would still buy it just to see if they could make it do more. Heck thats what I was thinking when I ordered mine. Or at least to have a cheaper decently fast boat to let the kids try out when you go run your boats.

But reality is its a 45+mph boat that can potentially burn up the esc and has fallen short of its long awaited hype. So its not off to a good start.

And honestly over the years I cant think of one forum thread for an RTR boat (on all the manufactures) that didn't have owners having problems out of the boat and someone somewhere complaining about its design and problems.
Im not defending traxxas trust me (if I had it my way they should go back to court over this boat and their bloated advertising some companies need to be kept in check or at least reality). I'm just saying.

All and all what is ultimately best if you want something right and you know what to do. Build something yourself with quality components and materials the way you want it. That way when it turns out great you can feel proud and accomplished. Or if its not so good, well you have yourself to blame just as well. But if you learn from your mistakes you know what not to do, and can work it out just the same.

Diesel6401
02-19-2011, 08:44 PM
I guess you guys haven't noticed all the new members here wondering why their Spartans are going up in flames?
Doby, do YOU have an oinion, or are you just going to give everyone who does a hard time? Traxxas being the big company they are, is appealing to a very large market. A lot of guys trying a boat for the first time, will buy the Traxxas. Why not? It comes fully RTR, and claims 50 plus mph. Most guys will buy just because of the speed claim and that it looks cool and for no other reason. When esc's start smoking, and motors start frying... and their new lipos get ruined, there is a VERY good chance that FE boats will leave a bad tast in their mouth. KIs that good for the sport? No.
Traxxas' ability to throw cash around for marketing and winning so-called boat of the year is not a good thing for this hobby. Look at all of the GOOD rtr's coming out that work well right out of the box. The newbie aint gonna buy it because it don't say 50 plus on the box.

I agree with you on this one, and the boat of the year is just very bad for this hobby. If I was new guy looking to get into boating and bought this boat and read it was boat of the year and the thing went up in smoke. I would have a bad taste in my mouth thinking I went out and bought the "so called" boat of the year and the thing went up in flames. I would be one PISSED off customer and would leave me to believe that if the boat of the year is this bad then the others must be terrible.

shctexas
02-19-2011, 09:26 PM
I am a new guy in the hobby, didn't know it was the "boat of the year" though I did buy into the hype. I had problems but resolved them with the help of experienced fe boaters here and on the "other" forum. Yes, I have a bad taste in my mouth but not so much about the problems but with the manufacturers attitude toward their customers. In a word "dismissive". "j" I agree with your "build your own" perspective. As a matter of fact I can envision my next project....twin drive cat, built my way. I have a long way to go so for now I'll enjoy what I have... the Spart and an MG. By the way, fiberglass all the way. Thanx guys.

Make-a-Wake
02-19-2011, 09:59 PM
Quote GeoVW72 - "Make-a-Wake: You're viewing this from an odd angle. By all means build the boat, add a radio and cheap batts and put it on ebay as the spartan killer for $475 and offer tech support, I doubt you'll be happy."

OK...............never said i was going to build it.............which means i cant add a radio..............or sell it on ebay..............or give it a name............

Two other posters have added the same opinion of "building your own" for not much more.........and enjoying the build, and learning from it instead of swiping a credit card at the LHS and plopping the new boat in the local pond..................and hoping it lasts thru its first run.

It won "boat of the year" cuz its up against current year production ARTR's............not against the "phantom" DF35 I threw out there in my earlier post..............or any other fiberglass, quality boats that are seen on the racing circuits............or on this forum.

GeoVW72
02-19-2011, 11:55 PM
Make-a-Wake: I agree with you :beerchug:, we as an educated community could build an arguably better boat for the same price, but we are not the true target market.

Nor am I truly trying to defend traxxas. I've waited as we all have for traxxas to hang themselves, I just didn't think it would be this quick or this bad :closedeyes:

It's easy as a consumer to be harsh critic of a product because you won't truly value what's there.
Traxxas didn't build a $400 boat, they built a $150 boat+marketing,tech+distribution=$329 boat+shop= $400 boat, street price
The boat had to hit a price point because that is what traxxas saw the target market paying and with the setbacks that they've had they are trying to get every dollar back from what they have invested in the project before they dump more in.

I commend others for the work they've done to make the boat truly run well :thumbup:
But, my opinion is that we've abandoned the stock hardware too quickly without truly coming up with a "fix" for whats there. At least that's the tact I will be taking with the mods that I do.

As connected as the world is today and with this being one of the top forums, I think what has been done to make the boat perform has tuned many people off. I don't see bickering and "I told you so" helping the situation at this point. My opinion is the community should work toward the easy and cheap fix using most of the stock hardware to help the boat hit the target market.
Cuz it'll probably take traxxas another 6 months to come up with a fix :Peace_Sign:

JPriami
02-20-2011, 10:22 AM
If you set aside the issues with some of the esc's potentially catching fire.

The mods are simple for the boat.
1. Modify the cooling system: open up the rudder inlet (a must do!), drill out the nipple at the top of the rudder (extra measure), drill out the water exit (extra measure). New larger ID cooling lines (optional)
This (opening up the rudder inlet) will supply the boat with the necessary cooling.
I dont recommend "Y" ing off the single line for separate lines to the motor and esc. But whatever one does make sure after this mod that you keep a vigilant eye on the temps to see how things are cooling or cooking. I ran my boat several times after this mod and keep watch on the temps. running a couple mins then come in and check asap. if ok run then check etc. then learned that it was all ok after enough checking.

2. Replace the silicon cooling jacket with an aluminum one (optional): if the one you have leaks after opening up the cooling system flow/pressure. I experienced a cup of water in my boat because mine was leaking a few times I ran it this way.
Or your maybe able to take the stock jacket off and clean the surfaces of the jacket and motor well. Then apply a thin layer of RTV sealant so that the jacket sticks to the motor better. I havent tested this but its an after thought I had. Might even try small zip ties on the ends.

3. Prop (optional): The stock prop should get you up to 47MPH with 80% motor efficiency & 25% prop slip on 6S. But I feel there are lots of variables in a mass production of things. So one motor could be a little better than the other. Plus Ive seen balance issues with these motors that varies (GeoVW72 has a video too). My stock prop/motor only got me about 43/44mph. Ive heard others remark 45 to 48mph as well.
A Prather 220 should get you around +/- the 50mph mark.
I'm sure there are some other possibilities for prop choices Im just speaking from my own experience with the boat.

Greek75
02-20-2011, 11:57 AM
Ok, I agree with all the posters here. I bought 1 to try for mt 7 and 9 year old daughters... I haven't been into rc for 20 years. FE wasn't a term back then. If it wasn't gas, it was a toy. The Spartan ,for my daughters, was a way to get them into rc. I paid $369 for original, now $319 from tower with $50 off. I've exponentially learned about FE. I've ordered 3 other FE and am going for a 60" gasser for the runtime. All of my kinks have been worked out. My girls have a reliable traxxas running 6S. My main concern was the traxxas warranty. Every time they pick up the phone, I get a box of new parts.... I just fix the bad parts, till I rec replacement. I definitely agree the stock setup is a toy, but if you fry the motor or esc, traxxas said don't worry about the 30 day warranty.... I've been trying just that, running around 7 min, almost all full throttle. No flames..... I'm just saying, for the money $319 with a warranty , rtr, for the kids, 45+mph isn't a bad deal...

wilsta67
02-21-2011, 02:52 AM
the thing does not do 45+ il give you the tip not without a lot of modifications.

wilsta67
02-21-2011, 02:54 AM
sorry about all the bagging about this boat,but it has left a very bitter taste in my mouth, and if i can stop at least 1 person from making the mistake of buying one of these then it will make me happy.

oscarel
02-21-2011, 06:20 AM
the thing does not do 45+ il give you the tip not without a lot of modifications.

How do you have it set up? What batteries are you using?

Boatcrazy
02-21-2011, 09:37 AM
sorry about all the bagging about this boat,but it has left a very bitter taste in my mouth, and if i can stop at least 1 person from making the mistake of buying one of these then it will make me happy.

I was looking at one for my first boat but quickly changed my mind
Thanks:smile:

Greek75
02-21-2011, 11:13 AM
By now, I know more about this boat than traxxas does... Believe me, it's doing 45+ on gps, stock except for prop, and many, many, many, mods.... Unless you too have electrical and mechanical engineering teams working on my little girls toy.... Oh, and the necessary machinery.... I agree it did not do much(42) out of box with cooling mods.... It's brought me to fe and has been a fun project.... I can't get a good rudder for the price of this boat on a big gas cat.....
No disrespect, but it's a good learning tool, and it shouldn't be advertised 50+ out of the box....

Rumdog
02-21-2011, 01:35 PM
You can't get a rudder for $400.00? Not so sure about that..

wilsta67
02-21-2011, 01:36 PM
How do you have it set up? What batteries are you using?

35c 5000mah in this video 42mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLl0hlM4wdU


and put in a set of 45c nano techs for the first time and this happens.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR6fgmHPSgw

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4397/img0178zd.jpg

oscarel
02-21-2011, 01:38 PM
Where did you have the batteries in the tray? All the way forward, all the way back, in the middle? I understand you had issues, but how did you have it set up?

wilsta67
02-21-2011, 01:46 PM
Where did you have the batteries in the tray? All the way forward, all the way back, in the middle? I understand you had issues, but how did you have it set up?

the middle of the tray is the best position for batteries.
done all the mods cooling jacket,bored out water pick up bigger hose, had esc set to race mode.

Greek75
02-21-2011, 02:01 PM
Re: $319 rudder... I don't use Chinese products on expensive, big gas boats...... I'd rather make them myself....

Brushless55
02-21-2011, 02:22 PM
the middle of the tray is the best position for batteries.
done all the mods cooling jacket,bored out water pick up bigger hose, had esc set to race mode.

sounds like you had it setup right William! :thumbup1:
funny how still today some want to blame the user :ThumbsDown01:

oscarel
02-21-2011, 02:56 PM
Hum, I just scanned back and didn't see where I said it was the users fault. I was simply asking because nowhere did he ever say in this thread how he was running it. I know I'm guilty of getting a new toy and wanting to run it without reading the manual and only going back to the manual when somethings not right. I work in a customer support organization and have for over 20 years and there's always questions to ask that may help.... So I guess I'll stay out of this one for now. Good luck all.

Rumdog
02-21-2011, 06:52 PM
Re: $319 rudder... I don't use Chinese products on expensive, big gas boats...... I'd rather make them myself....

lol. Show me.

GeoVW72
02-22-2011, 01:32 AM
35c 5000mah in this video 42mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLl0hlM4wdU


and put in a set of 45c nano techs for the first time and this happens.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR6fgmHPSgw

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4397/img0178zd.jpg

You continued running a piece of equipment that was clearly exhibiting a known and acknowledged defect and this SURPRISES you?!?!?! :huh:

0hhDaGFp3cg

Gee, I wonder why the center channel came unsoldered :olleyes:

If that's not user error, I don't know what is :ThumbsDown01:

Brushless55
02-22-2011, 10:34 AM
You continued running a piece of equipment that was clearly exhibiting a known and acknowledged defect and this SURPRISES you?!?!?! :huh:

Gee, I wonder why the center channel came unsoldered :olleyes:

If that's not user error, I don't know what is :ThumbsDown01:

Uh I sure hope your not putting blame on a customer who is running this pretty much stock! :doh:
this is not the only known esc to fail to normal use

JPriami
02-22-2011, 10:53 AM
Idk, it's pretty plain as day there was a problem with his esc. That is on traxxas no doubt about it. The problem lays in fault of the user for knowing there is a problem being educated about issues and continuing to run the boat with defective equipment till it burnt up. Thus making the problem worse. And to top it off going to tell other owners of the boat what's it's top potential is in speed when the one he owns wasn't even peaking in rpms because of the problems it was having with the esc. I don't mean anyone any disrespct I'm just using plain and simple logic to examine the facts. I still think traxxas should replace his esc. It was defective no doubt. I just don't apprciate fueling the fires of hate with a bit of...

Brushless55
02-22-2011, 12:28 PM
my question goes out to traxxas
Where are you? :spy:

Greek75
02-22-2011, 06:59 PM
Well said Justin... It ran fine after many mods, using only stock parts, but highly modified for plenty of water flow ... Temps never exceeded 100.. I have the same stock setup, ran ok for the kids on lipos... After around 10 runs on lipo, esc malfunction, but no fire... Again, it is a toy, but we'll see how traxxas steps up with their warranty... Drivetrain went back today... If it's repaired for n/c, then that makes good business sense... My intention has been to use all stock parts, to entertain my engineers, but no touching the electronics... I'm not a big fan of Chinese mfg, but that's the world we live in... In a few years, their quality will improve....

Brushless55
02-22-2011, 07:06 PM
to funny! :lol:
some just don't get it.. traxxas is resposible for the esc and motor having issues
not a user issue, but manufacture issue
bad esc to start off with means failure no matter if we are using the stock Nimh packs from traxxas or using 6s on stock setup.. a bad esc will melt and let out the magic smoke :olleyes:

using a X447 or bigger prop (not stock prop) on the stock system without any runs first and causing the esc or motor to fail, could be called user error :doh:

running stock setup with failing parts, is not user error
have any idea how many Brushless Revo esc's that failed that were on trucks with stock gearing running 4s and 6s?
tons!!!
traxxas had to replace many esc's because of some issue from the manufacture of the esc
againg not user error, but customers seeing what there new trucks can do :rockon2:

Greek75
02-22-2011, 07:34 PM
That was my point about Chinese mfg... I have been dealing with it for many,many years... Not once has their first batch of anything been correct... Even after several revisions, the quality improves, but there are still bad products (out of spec) in every batch.... The reseller (traxxas) still has to sample each shipment until they become compliant... Even then, they should take random samples and run a complete test. That is why a warranty is very important on any new product..... That's why you don't see many Chinese parts on commercial aircraft..

Brushless55
02-22-2011, 09:56 PM
That was my point about Chinese mfg... I have been dealing with it for many,many years... Not once has their first batch of anything been correct... Even after several revisions, the quality improves, but there are still bad products (out of spec) in every batch.... The reseller (traxxas) still has to sample each shipment until they become compliant... Even then, they should take random samples and run a complete test. That is why a warranty is very important on any new product..... That's why you don't see many Chinese parts on commercial aircraft..

interesting stuff man :thumbup1:
I did talk with someone at Traxxas last week about the issues and they think it is with the manufacture, as he says they did not have any of these heat issues durring testing .. :spy:

Make-a-Wake
02-24-2011, 08:53 PM
Guess its safe to say that the "Spartan" has worn off................................

JPriami
02-24-2011, 09:10 PM
just like the movie 300 and all its parodies lol

GeoVW72
02-25-2011, 01:24 AM
Doubtful, we just scared off the first wave of noobs :laugh:
there will be more :closedeyes:

roadrashracing
02-27-2011, 03:48 PM
They have been out for awhile now, hobby shop has them for $300, is it worth it> Or not waste my time?

Make-a-Wake
02-27-2011, 03:54 PM
They have been out for awhile now, hobby shop has them for $300, is it worth it> Or not waste my time?

You said it.........

JPriami
02-27-2011, 04:36 PM
you can buy mine for only $600 lol. just kidding.

Joeyhatch11
02-27-2011, 06:27 PM
You can spend $30-40 more and get a better boat. ProBoat or Aquacraft.

dag-nabit
02-27-2011, 07:59 PM
They have been out for awhile now, hobby shop has them for $300, is it worth it> Or not waste my time?

Based on all the reported problems I think I would have to say, step back from the Spartan and see if Traxxas steps up with reliable fixes to the problems first.

I called my LHS last week to cancel mine, but they said they had already shipped from the distributor, so I'm going through with the purchase out of respect for the folks who own the hobby shop, they are great people, they treat me really well, and I don't want to sting them.

I have lost confidence in the Spartan, but will be changing out the ESC for certain, and very possibly the motor as well. Hopefully the upgrades will get a couple years of reliable fun out of these boats, and I will chalk the extra cost up to entertainment with the kids.

The Aquacraft SV27 is the only other FE boat I have any experience with, but I can tell you ours have been reliable, and a lot of fun over the past few years.

Kevin

Checkmateguy01
02-27-2011, 10:39 PM
You can spend $30-40 more and get a better boat. ProBoat or Aquacraft.

I would have defintaly bought another Aquacraft boat, if they offered some thing in the Spartans size range. That's why i bought the Spartan, for it's shear size, you just don't see many RTR or even bare hulls in the FE world that are much bigger than 30 inches. If the Pro-boat Miss Gieco cat had been bigger, like the Genesis, i would have bought one no questions asked! I run on a big lake, the SV27 is a fun little boat but it's very frustrating waiting for calm enough water, any little ripple and it on it's back. I am thinkin' my next build may be a Genesis hull, i have the Spartan for this coming season, maybe build a Genesis hull for next season. I still think i'll be in good shape with the Spartan for what i'm looking for.

Diesel6401
02-27-2011, 10:48 PM
You should have snagged up a DF40 copy http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11892 sell the motor which comes in the boat (AWESOME MOTOR) just a little to small for this hull and use the cash to grab a leopard 4082. You wouldn't have any trouble selling that leopard. I was able to snag the hull and hardware before they went out of stock. I'm adding the Leopard 4082 1500 to mine on 5s & 6s. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15235

roadrashracing
02-28-2011, 06:57 AM
I'll just stick with my current setup then, thanks

Checkmateguy01
03-01-2011, 07:32 AM
You should have snagged up a DF40 copy http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11892 sell the motor which comes in the boat (AWESOME MOTOR) just a little to small for this hull and use the cash to grab a leopard 4082. You wouldn't have any trouble selling that leopard. I was able to snag the hull and hardware before they went out of stock. I'm adding the Leopard 4082 1500 to mine on 5s & 6s. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15235

Thats a nice looking hull, no doubt, but that's more than i paid for the Spartan and you still have to put in at least an ESC and radio (say's not included)!! I like that new DF35 hull, looks like it would handle chop really well, but it came along well after i bought the Spartan. I'm staying positive about buying the Spartan, although i'm itching to build/set-up another boat.

Joeyhatch11
03-01-2011, 08:40 AM
Yeah the only reason why I was looking at the Spartan was because of it's size. Plus being a noob I thought I'd stick with a brand I know and trusted. Good thing I had you guys here to shine some light on all the flaws it's having. I bought a used AquaCraft SuperVee 27. Got it in the mail yesterday. I just did the bath tube float test to make sure everything was sealed and blew some water through the hoses to makes sure they were flowing smoothly. If I'm feeling up to it I may take a trip to the pond. Being sick sucks, especially when you have new goodies to play with.

Only question regarding my SuperVee is the antenna mount. It's coming out of the cowling and the hole is a lot bigger than the antenna tube. Should I leave some slack inside the hull and then silicon the rest of it up? That way I'll be able to pop the top and have enough room to work and swap lipos.