54" Bonzi Fountain build

[ScarabChris]

Ok the hull and drive hardware is on its way. This build may take some time. I will be doing some paint job work, not too flashy though. I want the inside to be slick looking as well.

The hull should be here by this time next week, I special ordered it without the 5" spaced stringers they usually put in there for the gas engines.

Who knows when the drives, rudder and trim tabs will be here. MHZ-usa seems to be taking their time with order processing.

This is going to be a twin motor setup, I'm open to any and all suggestions for motors, ESCs and batteries.

I was thinking of those big ass Little Screamers outrunners. But Little Screamers has not gotten back to me.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/54driverwhite.jpg

X2
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/t-1506.jpg

[westbeach]

Thats a great start. Me likey where this is going. :popcorn2:

[Make-a-Wake]

Grab two Castle/Neu 1520's while they're only 65 bucks apiece...........5 or 6s.

http://www.castlecreations.com/products/neu-castle_motors.html

[westbeach]

twin 1520 to push a 54" hull?? Might be underpowered? I think it needs something bigger. 1717 maybe. Not sure what Leopard has for bigger motors. Definitely some Neu 22xx.


Grab two Castle/Neu 1520's while they're only 65 bucks apiece...........5 or 6s.

http://www.castlecreations.com/products/neu-castle_motors.html

[Make-a-Wake]

You may have a point, but it all depends on speeds he's wanting. They should put out 4-5000 watts between them........6-7 hp.

[ScarabChris]

I'm looking for 50+ MPH. If I'm going to spend all this money on this build I want people to say "HOLY SHYTT" when they see it run. And I am going to want some decent run time so that means extra battery weight. This boat could be heavy RTR.

I would actually like to have it overpowered. There is a saying in real boating "its better to have it and not use it than to want it and not have it".

[Make-a-Wake]

You may want twin 2215's.................................

[ScarabChris]

In talking with Steve he suggested the Leopard 5692 motors. I like the price much better than the NEUs too.

Should I get the highest RPM per volt?

[Make-a-Wake]

NO.................lower kv and higher voltage. The 1090kv on 8s should work, and the 730 on 12s would run even cooler.

[ScarabChris]

OK so what voltage will the 8s and 12s batteries be? I was thinking the 1340Kv would give me 29,000 RPMs at 22 volts. If my math is correct.

Do I not want the highest RPM motors? Also run time is important. I don't want a 3 minute run time boat.

Placing a sizable order at OSE now. Steve only has one 730 but he has plenty of 1090s and 1340s.

[Make-a-Wake]

I bet others will chime in here shortly, but i wouldnt go 1340's on 6s each. 1090's on 8s would be more "torquey" and run cooler, and the 730's on 12s would probably be the optimal setup. The higher voltage lower kv motors will give you more run time as well..................my opinions.

[Jacked1]

You deff want 6000 watts or more. My 47in twin gets right under 50mph and I am using a gearbox and two Turnigy 880kv T600 outrunners on 8s (3kw each) to one prop and your boat is a little bigger. What I am going to do this summer is add another motor or two and put them all inline and change to the 1400kv version on 6s beacause the price of esc's.

I don't know why it would be different for other motors but as long as the power is the same and the unloaded RPM is the same I don't notice any difference between the different kv's and how they perform. ( and using the same prop and same weight of batteries.) The lower kv will have more torque at the same voltage as the motor with the higher kv but as long as u match the rpm with more voltage I can't tell a difference. Oh and the same total watt-hours on the batteries.

[ScarabChris]

6000 watts for the entire boat or per motor? Looking at the specs for the 5692 series motors on the Leopard website they seem to max out at 5500 watts.

According to their specs the 1090 will have a max watts of 5500, will run on 5-9s LiPo and pull 160 amps max. Looking at HobbyKing an 8s 5800 mAh LiPo is 29.6 volts which should give me the target RPM of 31,000.

OK I think I'm getting the LiPo/BL lingo now.

[Jacked1]

6000 watts total, 3000per motor. 2 big leopards will get you well over 50! :D

[ScarabChris]

Cool! So I'm placing the order with OSC now. Getting the 1090 Leopards, water jackets, Spectrum DX3S radio and some other cooling stuff.

That should get me started once the hull and drive hardware arrive, still need mounts, may make my own though. Once the credit card cools off I'll hit up Hobby King for some batteries and ESCs.

[ScarabChris]

Having a hard time finding some nice looking mounts for these 56mm motors.

[ScarabChris]

Couldn't find mounts for these motors anywhere so I'm going to make my own from carbon fiber. I ordered some rigid CF sheet and some CF fabric from Ill Street Composites. http://www.carbon-fiber.us/

I'm going to line the inside of the entire hull with CF. I'm also going to make the motor mounts, servo mount, battery trays, ect. Should look slick!!!

I'm getting pumped about this build. If only MHZ would ship my stuff.

[forescott]

Chris, I run a single 5692 in a 40-inch mono. The 1340kv on 6s. It runs fast and cool at 50mph on an x452 prop. Twins should easily push this hull. What are you using for lipos? A twin 8s setup is gonna be a lot of weight in lipos. A couple of aquastar/swordfish 240 esc's will work nicely. This looks to be a pricey build!! Good luck!! :thumbup1:

[ScarabChris]

Not sure what batteries I will be using yet. I was already thinking the Swordfish 240s would be a good match, thanks for confirming.

For batteries I was thinking two of these bad boys. Thats about 5 pounds of batteries......any thoughts? Good runtime?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14997

Yeah this will not be a cheap build, I'm figuring around $2500-$3000 when all is said and done. I'm already $2000 into it and the only major items left to buy are the batteries and ESCs. But it will be fun to build and run.

[forescott]

Not sure what batteries I will be using yet. I was already thinking the Swordfish 240s would be a good match, thanks for confirming.

For batteries I was thinking two of these bad boys. Thats about 5 pounds of batteries......any thoughts? Good runtime?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=14997

Yeah this will not be a cheap build, I'm figuring around $2500-$3000 when all is said and done. I'm already $2000 into it and the only major items left to buy are the batteries and ESCs. But it will be fun to build and run.

Looks good to me. Check out the aquastar 240's on the hobbyking website for $215 a piece.

[MarkF]

I would run the 1340 kv motor as well. You will have the option to run 2 6s packs in parallel on each motor for the exra run time. I dont think your going thave much room to run 8 or 10s 2p on each motor if your going for twins. Single motor no problem. Speeds on 6s setup will easily hit 60+ mph.

Mark

[forescott]

Plus you can use turnigy 180's and save some big $$$

[Jacked1]

Plus you can use turnigy 180's and save some big $$$

:iagree: that or the SF 200a's

[ScarabChris]

I already ordered the 1090 motors, so what ESC should I use?

Also looks like I might be using these drives now since MHZ seems to not be in business at the moment even though they took my 780 bucks, that should be fun to resolve..... http://www.wd200-modellbau.de/?Antriebe%2FDrives:Lenkstrut

[forescott]

Either the aquastar 240. Or the swordfish 240. Or the Hydra 240HV

[Make-a-Wake]

Steerable outdrives huh................ i assumed stingers and a big rudder in the middle.........thats what i get for assuming! I like those batts.............145 continuous amp output, just watch the heat on them, too bad they arent 30c's.

[ScarabChris]

Steerable outdrives huh................ i assumed stingers and a big rudder in the middle.........thats what i get for assuming! I like those batts.............145 continuous amp output, just watch the heat on them, too bad they arent 30c's.

No my original plan was twin surface drives and a single center rudder. But MHZ doesn't seem to be filling orders so I am looking for alternatives. I just don't like any of the other surface drives out there so I am considering the steerable outdrives.

If you look at the bad ass Outerlimits in this thread it looks like thats what he's running.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=18130

[ScarabChris]

I just got my Leopard 5692 motors, water jackets, Spextrum DX3S and some other items. Thanks again Steve for that lightning fast shipping.

Wow! These motors are huge, I have a feeling this is going to be a really fast boat. And I finally got confirmation that my drives from MHZ-usa are out for delivery right now.

The hull and carbon fiber should be here within a day or two.

Stand by......

[ScarabChris]

Just got the drives and rudder from MHZ. I must say these are some nice drives. I also got some trim tabs from MHZ but I found these from Redline, they match the drives very nice so I'll use them.

Here is a transom mock up. The hull will be black so this gives an idea of how it will look.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302068.jpg

[forescott]

I hope turning won't be an issue. Those keels on the stingers are gonna want to keep the hull going straight.

[Rumdog]

You're probably going to want to extend the rudder bracket to get the rudder behind the props.

[ScarabChris]

I hope turning won't be an issue. Those keels on the stingers are gonna want to keep the hull going straight.

I was thinking about that, but there must be some reason MTC builds them like that.


You're probably going to want to extend the rudder bracket to get the rudder behind the props.

Not sure why, my big gas boat is set up just like this except it has one drive instead of two. The rudder is off center and in front of the prop and the boat handles fine.

I was playing with the drives and I may be able to make them steerable. I'm still looking into that so maybe I can eliminate the rudder all together.

[Team FFRB]

I hope turning won't be an issue. Those keels on the stingers are gonna want to keep the hull going straight.

Skegs will act like turn fins.:thumbup1:

[ScarabChris]

Skegs will act like turn fins.:thumbup1:


Thats what I was thinking as well.

Not mounting them yet though, I want to see what those 820 outdrives look like. If I end up not using them on this project I'm sure I will on a future build.

[ScarabChris]

Whats a good set of props to start with? They will be counter rotating. Would these be to much prop? Not sure what diameter to start with.

http://bonzisports.com/catalogue/product_info.php?cPath=1_52&products_id=87

[befu]

Just got the drives and rudder from MHZ. I must say these are some nice drives. I also got some trim tabs from MHZ but I found these from Redline, they match the drives very nice so I'll use them.

Here is a transom mock up. The hull will be black so this gives an idea of how it will look.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302068.jpg

Yeah, I think skegs would act like turn fins, as long as the rudder isn't right between them. Is the rudder much behind the skegs or are they side by side?

Drives look good man.

Brian

[Punisher 67]

I have to agree , beautiful setup......... :drool:

[Team FFRB]

Whats a good set of props to start with? They will be counter rotating. Would these be to much prop? Not sure what diameter to start with.

http://bonzisports.com/catalogue/product_info.php?cPath=1_52&products_id=87

Chris,

I would say these props are a little big to start out with.

How about something around 55mm dia 3 blade counter rotating props.
This would be a great starting point to check your amp draw and temps and then work your way up.
You will find that you will keep those motors in the right torque curve plus won't pull too many amps = Run time and still give you a great turn of speed.

[ScarabChris]

Chris,

I would say these props are a little big to start out with.

How about something around 55mm dia 3 blade counter rotating props.
This would be a great starting point to check your amp draw and temps and then work your way up.
You will find that you will keep those motors in the right torque curve plus won't pull too many amps = Run time and still give you a great turn of speed.

Yeah I thought those 6717 props would be a little big. Problem is I want counter rotating 3 blade stainless steel props and they are hard to find.

Any good sources for props??

[Team FFRB]

Yeah I thought those 6717 props would be a little big. Problem is I want counter rotating 3 blade stainless steel props and they are hard to find.

Any good sources for props??

Prop Shop UK

Mate they have stainless steel 3,4 and 5 blade props counter rotating.

If you have trouble finding them let me know and I will post a link.

[ScarabChris]

I found them pretty easy and they do seem to have a lot of props. But no pictures. Being that I don't always know what the numbers mean the pictures help.

Plus I like to see what they look like.

[Team FFRB]

I found them pretty easy and they do seem to have a lot of props. But no pictures. Being that I don't always know what the numbers mean the pictures help.

Plus I like to see what they look like.

I will head on over to them now and give you some details.

[ScarabChris]

I will head on over to them now and give you some details.

LOL...really? I guess you're right down the street.

I just ordered a pair of 5517/3 in SS

[Team FFRB]

I found them pretty easy and they do seem to have a lot of props. But no pictures. Being that I don't always know what the numbers mean the pictures help.

Plus I like to see what they look like.

Here ya go.

Cleaver style,

CRC / 5517/3/LH/SS
CRC / 5517/3/RH/SS

Means - 55mm dia, 1.7 pitch 3 blade, left hand rotation, stainless steel
and the other one is right hand rotation.

[ScarabChris]

Here ya go.

Cleaver style,

CRC / 5517/3/LH/SS
CRC / 5517/3/RH/SS

Means - 55mm dia, 1.7 pitch 3 blade, left hand rotation, stainless steel
and the other one is right hand rotation.


Just ordered those exact props. I guess I made a good guess. Though I knew what those numbers meant. Some props have some completely different identifying numbers.

[Team FFRB]

Chris,

Looking forward to seeing you build this bad boy:rockon2:

Have you decided what color scheme your going with?

[ScarabChris]

Nothing wild, simple black hull sides and white top and bottom. Like this minus the red and orange flames. Maybe just the Fountain logo on the side toward the back.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/fountain.jpg

[ScarabChris]

Here I took out the flames or whatever that is. Looks so much better. This is the look my build will have.

Clean and slick as hell!
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/fountain-1.jpg

[Brushless55]

This thing is going to fly! :rockon2:

[ScarabChris]

I got my hull from Bonzi today. What a beautiful hull, I almost hate to drill into it. Love the smell of that brand new fiberglass.

I am just waiting on my carbon fiber to get started. I want to get the inside lined before I start. I pretty much have everything I need except for the following....

Batteries
ESCs
Flex shafts
Motor couplers

I need some help with the ESCs. For these motors I guess I need 240 amp ESCs but I am going to want reverse.

[Rumdog]

Reverse is not a good idea with flex shafts.
I've had luck with the Sworfish HV 240.

[ScarabChris]

Reverse is not a good idea with flex shafts.
I've had luck with the Sworfish HV 240.

I know because they can unwind. But only if you load them up with some RPM.

Again, I only want reverse so I can slowly back out of a tight space if needed. I'm not looking to run 40 MPH in reverse. I know 1/4" flex cable can run in reverse to a certain extent.

Where I run there are lots of trees and brush that overhang the water. I would hate to go for a swim when I can simply bump the throttle in reverse for a second.

So please....does anyone know of an ESC that will handle 200+ amps that come with the reverse option?

[ScarabChris]

OK I have started the build. This is going to be a slow long build so I'll update as I make progress.

Bare hull...
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/CIMG3349.jpg

Transom..
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/CIMG3351.jpg

Carbon fiber lined.....
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/CIMG3352.jpg

Transom
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/CIMG3357.jpg

[ScarabChris]

OK I have a decision to make on the drives. I was all set to use the MHZ drives and rudder...
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/003.jpg

Then these came in. I bought them from a member a couple of weeks ago and almost forgot about them. I know the boat will probably be a little faster with the surface drives but these outdrives are too cool looking not too consider.

The other question is will they hold up to the Leopard 5692 motors. They do seem very beefy.

Please help me make a decision.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/004.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/005.jpg

[Checkmateguy01]

Can't help you with the durability question, but those scale stern-drives look sweet! You already have a scale Fountain, the speed-master style stern-drives i think inhance the looks. I vote for the stern-drives!

[ScarabChris]

Yeah I have been messing with them for a few hours and doing extensive research on them (whatever I can find online) and I am 99% sure I will be using the scale drives.

These are Graupner 820 Z-Drives. During my research I found that the motor recommended for this drive is nearly the same size as the Leopard 5692 that I will be using.

I took one apart and they appear to be built very well, very large gears, bearings and shafts. I bought them from a nice member here and they appear to be brand new. The mounting hardware looks slightly used but the drives don't have a mark on them and the gears look brand new.

The only thing I don't like is the cup joint style universal joint that transfers power from the motor to the drive. I am also missing the double female cup jount but I'm pretty sure I can fine them.

But I also think I can eliminate the dog bone end of the shaft in the drive and install a heave duty universal joint like this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/OFNA-15100-UNIVERSAL-CVD-JOINTS-6MM-ULTRA-LX-PRO-GT-LX-/290508507182?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a3a8082e#ht_1341wt_905

Then I can simply use a 6mm to 6mm coupler to the motor.
I still need to play with them.

[Make-a-Wake]

"I found that the motor recommended for this drive is nearly the same size as the Leopard 5692 that I will be using."

Thats roughly so...........but, the 820 Graupner motors put out about 400 watts.............a 5692 can put out 4000..............may be touble.

[ScarabChris]

"I found that the motor recommended for this drive is nearly the same size as the Leopard 5692 that I will be using."

Thats roughly so...........but, the 820 Graupner motors put out about 400 watts.............a 5692 can put out 4000..............may be touble.

LOL.....yeah I figured the output power was going to be significantly more. But hey this is a hobby right?If I put it together and it worked perfect it would almost be boring.

I was paranoid about the gears in the EP1 outboards with the brushless motors and they are holding up very well.

[Make-a-Wake]

Well make sure you can get replacement gears before you shred 'em................i dont have any of these to sell you................. so the brass gears are holding up ok?

[RandyatBBY]

I was thinking about that, but there must be some reason MTC builds them like that.



Not sure why, my big gas boat is set up just like this except it has one drive instead of two. The rudder is off center and in front of the prop and the boat handles fine.
.

When the prop throws off water it hits the left side of the rudder and counter acts against the torque of the motor along with a little weight and trim tabs the boat will ride level.

On twins this is not necessary because of counter rotating props it is equal. The rudder can be moved forward for faster response in turning.

Those are sure some good looking IO's

[forescott]

Wont you be limited to prop diameter with the scale drives? If I remember correctly, you were originally looking for some pretty big props!

[ScarabChris]

I have ordered some 55mm props from propshopUK and I think I will be able to use them on the z drives. I'm going to make it a surface running drive just like the MHZ drives would have been. The drives are pretty big and the prop will only be about 12mm closer to the hull compared to the MHZ drives.

[Make-a-Wake]

Here's a pic of the drive with a prop on it, a 45mm is suggested, if the pic is of a 45mm then you may some some issues with a 55........................

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=grp-1987

[ScarabChris]

You are right, 55mm props will not fit. I already found some sweet 45mm 3 blade stainless steel counter rotating props.

I have been busy today, I am definitely going to try the scale drives. I found some heavy duty steel universal joints at my LHS and was able to fit them to the input shafts. They work perfect.

And hey, if the Leopard motors tear them up I can always patch the transom up and go back to the MHZ drives.

These scale drives look way too cool not to try.

U-Joint fixed to the input shaft
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/001.jpg

Dry fit.... Perfect match to the MHZ trim tabs I already had.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/002.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/0042.jpg

[Checkmateguy01]

That is way cool! That's a pretty big hull and those drives look about perfect for scale size, i diggin' this build alot!! I wonder how one of those drives would work on a smaller hull, like in the 35" or so range, and with moderate power like 540xl type motor? Looks good man!

[ScarabChris]

Making some progress. Still have a long way to go. I am still waiting on the ESCs and props and a few other build items.

Today I made the motor mount, battery tray, servo tray and RX battery tray. All these will be epoxied in along with more CF cloth for a nice solid structure.

Servo tray, still working on it....
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302075.jpg

RX battery tray, pretty much done just needs to be bonded in....
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302076.jpg

Motor mounts. Funny thing....I went crazy looking for the motor couplers. Even drove Steven crazy. But when I switched to the Z-Drives these massive cup joints were all I needed. Found at my LHS. These along with the u-joints and shafts (pictured in above post) are for a large gas powered RC truck. Its very beefy stuff, it should hold up but we will see...
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302072.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302073.jpg

Dry fit in the hull....pay no attention to that white crap on the transom. That was a sloppy patch job from where the rudder was. I'm going to put another layer of CF on the transom to hide it.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302079.jpg

[ScarabChris]

Continued........



Battery and ESC platform.....will be epoxied in with a layer of CF cloth to look like part of the boat...
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302078.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302082.jpg

Home made tie bar, copied right from Mercury...LOL
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302081.jpg

Thats all for now, I'll get back into it next week. I have a busy weekend on the real boat. Got the Ft Lauderdale Winterfest Boat Parade Saturday night. We make an entire day of it.

[Make-a-Wake]

Nice job! This is gonna be great when finished. Are you only running 1p or are the batts on there for the photo? Those motors will be tough on the batts in 1p config.

[ScarabChris]

I'm going to try it with one pack per motor and see what happens. These are 6s 5000 mAh 45C packs. I purposely made the battery platform huge so I can put more batteries if needed.

[Gerwin Brommer]

Make sure you programm your esc's in "soft start" IF that's possible.
These drives were designed when BL didn't even excist.
If you pull the trigger at once on these drives, the shafts will break.

[ScarabChris]

Make sure you programm your esc's in "soft start" IF that's possible.
These drives were designed when BL didn't even excist.
If you pull the trigger at once on these drives, the shafts will break.

Yeah I was going to do that. But I don't know about shafts breaking, I took these drives apart and the shafts are very thick. Like the EP1 outboards I think the gears would be the weak point.

But even then I was worried about the gears with the BL motors and they hold up just fine. I stab the throttle on the twin outboard and there is so much torque that the boat literally jumps out of the water and the gears are still new looking. I check them after every 1-2 runs.

[blackcat26]

Man, this baby is looking good!

[JEDNJONES]

Just add some thru-hull exhaust and itll look as real as can be. Awesome Fountain build!!

[LarrysDrifter]

Wow.This is sweet.Nice job.You do have some cool ideas you come up with for your builds.

[ScarabChris]

OK I did some epoxy and CF work, getting closer. In fact if I had the ESCs I could already dry test this system out, don't have props yet.

Motor mounts
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302085.jpg

Battery/ESC platform..

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302086.jpg

Motors in..

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302087.jpg

Servo in...works absolutely perfect!!!
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302091.jpg

RX battery....
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302090.jpg

With these scale drives I figured they would leak so I put a RAMS auto bilge pump. I did a float test in the pool and not a drop of water. But lets see how those drive shaft boots hold up. They are just Pro Boat large pushrod boots modified and filled with grease.

Just to test the pump I put a quart of water in the boat and it works perfect.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/rc302089.jpg

I don't know why my camera makes the CF look so crappy, in real life it looks slick.

[blackcat26]

Chris that baby is looking good! I am a little concerned about those drive shats/gears. I don't think they will make it through the first outing.....

[ScarabChris]

Chris that baby is looking good! I am a little concerned about those drive shats/gears. I don't think they will make it through the first outing.....

Ahhhhh....have faith my friend. The gears and shafts are much bigger and thicker than the picture suggests.

Everyone thought the BL motors were going to destroy the little gears in the EP1 outboards on my Scarab build including me. But they are holding up very well, I just took them apart after the last run and they still look new, no wear.

Keep in mind this has turned to another scale build, not a race build. Going easy on the throttle should make everything last longer. I still think the boat will hit 50 MPH.

For an all out speed boat I have plans for my next build. I'm going to convert my 50" Aeromarine Apache from gas to FE. Single huge motor mounted between the 5" stringers.

[blackcat26]

Alright Chris lets get this thing in the water bro ! You need to do a magic prop dance so they will get here soon! You have some truly unique builds. Very outside the norm that I am used to. Keep up the great work!

[Make-a-Wake]

For the 50" Aeromarine, sounds like a Neu 2230 1Y on 12s would be in order!:buttrock:

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=neu-2230&cat=117

[ScarabChris]

If my props and ESCs would arrive I could do a test run on this thing. I ordered some props from propshop UK weeks ago for the MHZ surface drives and they still haven't arrived. Then last week I ordered another set from propshop UK for these scale drives. So it could be another 2-3 weeks before I see them.

But a saving grace is Steve at OSE. He had some props that would work and they should be here in a day or two.

The real hold up are the ESC's from Hobby Hot in China. They were shipped on the 9th and there is no progress in the tracking. I'm guessing they are held up at customs something.

The props are the last step. What I need are the ESCs, I'm at a standstill without them. Once I get them I will be ready for a test within a day, but I feel it will be a week or more before they get here.

[ScarabChris]

For the 50" Aeromarine, sounds like a Neu 2230 1Y on 12s would be in order!:buttrock:

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=neu-2230&cat=117

Yeah that boat is going to be the all out speed project, and I should be able to do it with almost no extra money out of pocket. I have the MHZ drives, flex shafts, props and motor couplers.

Being that this will be a single motor rig I can sell off one of each of the above mentioned items. The sale of that along with the pro mod Zenoah should fund the RX, motor and ESC. Thats all I would need to complete that build.

Out with the gasser, almost a shame as this engine is nearly brand new. It has less than an hour of run time on it. Between the engine, mods, tuned pipe and clutch I have about a grand into this engine.

This boat was 50+ MPH, but I think it will be faster with a big FE setup.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/Scarab302Mini_002.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/Scarab302Mini_007.jpg

I'm going to take this purple gear off and use one of the MHZ drives, rudder and the Red Line trim tabs. Should look slick and haul azz.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/Scarab302Mini_003.jpg

Oh well......one thing at a time. I'll start a new build thread when I'm ready to take that one on. It will be a couple of months. For now I want to get this 54 Fountain running.

[LarrysDrifter]

Chris,where did you get the RAMS bilge pump?That looks like a good idea.

[ScarabChris]

I got the pump from e b a y. I think Harbor Models has them too. 25 bucks.

[Jacked1]

I can take the zenoah off ur hands when u do the conversion! :D

[ScarabChris]

I can take the zenoah off ur hands when u do the conversion! :D

Make me a reasonable offer, I can yank it out and ship it whenever you want it. I was hoping to sell the entire package (engine, exhaust, clutch and mounts) all together.

The engine runs perfect but the mixture screws will need to be tuned. I got them all out of whack.

[Doby]

This build is taking to long.....................

[blackcat26]

This build is taking to long.....................

Come on. You know how it is, waiting on parts is half our hobby!

[ScarabChris]

Yup.....all I need to splash this thing are the ESC's and about 2 hours of rigging time.

I have decided to run 4 packs so I'm also waiting on the other 2 batteries. But I can run it on two packs. Just need those damn ESCs.

The last tracking update they were in NY so hopefully it will only be a few more days.

[ScarabChris]

Well it looks like a test run will happen this week. Finally my ESCs made it to Florida and are in the Miami sort facility which means delivery on Monday. Hell it only took 24 days to get here from China and they sat in NY for a week.

I'm never ordering anything from overseas again if they use the USPS. THEY SUCK!

[ScarabChris]

OK I got some ESC's in today. After a quick hook up I wanted to do a quick test run. The boat jumps out of the water. But after that unfortunately nothing much more happens.

Being very familiar with how boats act I knew instantly the drives were too high. As soon as the boat gets close to getting on plane its like a jacuzzi behind the boat. Nothing but cavitation.

So.......I gotta do some modifications to move the drives down.

[blackcat26]

Chris what size props did you end up with? Dia and pitch

[Rumdog]

Arent they lower than sufrace drive stingers already? You may just need bigger props..

[Make-a-Wake]

Hmmmmm, looks like they are setup as surface piercing drives.........can you fit 448's on there?

[ScarabChris]

I started off with some ABC props from OSE. They are 3 blade 45mm (abc-1816-10-50(3) which are the biggest diameter props that will fit. I might be able to squeeze 47mm props.

I also have some props coming from prop shop UK, they will be similar though.

IBut I am positive I put the drives too high, I had the hull bottom even with the propshaft. I only did this because Graupner describes this drive as such....

Suitable for medium-sized to large motor boats and motor-yachts. Designed expressly for surface-piercing propellers

If a fully submerged propeller is used, a smaller diameter must be employed.

I took that as a surface drive so I mounted it very high. Now I am reworking the transom and motor mounts so the cav plate is just slightly above the hull bottom by about 5 mm.

[ScarabChris]

Hmmmmm, looks like they are setup as surface piercing drives.........can you fit 448's on there?

You beat me to it! Your depiction is 100% accurate. By tomorrow I will be able to give it another test run with the drives at the "correct" hight.

[Rumdog]

Those props are TINY for those motors, and for that hull.

[blackcat26]

Not to gang up on you Chris but I think Rum is right. A lower pitch prop in a little bigger dia might help a little. 457's would be closer to par.......

[ScarabChris]

I don't feel ganged up on, no worries.

This is a hobby and I am building this boat on spec. There are no previous builds identical to this and no "right or wrong" way to do it.

This is trial and error and I'll have to keep tinkering until I dial it in.

On the props, I am not very familiar with the numbers such as "457" and "448". All I can tell you for certain is nothing bigger than 47mm in diameter will fit and its a 3/16 shaft.

[blackcat26]

Ok the 457 is an Octura x457. They come in counter-rotating and the 448 is also Octura, x448 not sold in counter-rotating. I agree about the testing til you get it right and it's easy for us to sit back and tell what's wrong after the fact. If we seem too critical at times we are only trying to help. Keep up the good builds my friend!

[ScarabChris]

OK the x457 looks to be a 57mm prop. Won't fit.

Lets see how it does with the drives lowered and I'll go from there.

And if I still need more prop, prop shop UK has 4 and 5 blade props that will fit.

[LarrysDrifter]

Sorry to hear about the drives.Hopefully,you can get the right sized props for it given what will fit.An x448 is a 48mm prop with 1.4 pitch as with all x series props.

[ScarabChris]

Nothing really wrong with the drives. I believe the main problem was the hight. I already took care of that. Props might be an issue but I don't think any prop would work with how I had the drives set.

If I stab the throttle the boat literally jumps out of the water. This tells me the props are biting and utilizing the power the motors are pushing. But as soon as the boat gets up they suck in air. The props just needed to be deeper.

I know a LOT about dialing a real boat with drive hight and props. I should have known better than to put those drives so high.

I should be able to get a quick test in by noon tomorrow. If I can get the boat on plane without massive cavitation then I can dial in the right props later.

[ScarabChris]

OK.......lowered the drives. It got on plane and was just gaining speed when that sound occurred! Stripped the gears in one drive!!

It was the input shaft gear and I did remove the shaft to put the U-joint so it could very well have been my negligence by not making sure the gears had a tight mesh.

So.....where does that leave me? Yeah I'm going back to the surface drives for this boat.

Its not just the gears. I think these motors are way to strong for them for starters and the drives are just not big enough for this hull and they don't allow for a big enough prop.

Even if I got the drives set right and they held up I think finding props to push this big heavy boat would have been an issue.

I will search out some gears or maybe I'll even buy another drive and use them on the 50" Apache with motors that are suitable for these drives. That hull is smaller and much lighter and I think that will be the scale build.

But for this Fountain.....back to the MHZ surface drives.

Oh well.......

[ScarabChris]

Got a lot done today, I would be ready to run it by Christmas Eve with the MTC surface drives but now I have no props. The props I originally got from Prop Shop UK for these drives are very nice, but they are for a 3/16 shaft. These drives are 1/4" shaft. So now I'm on the hunt for props once again.

LOL......this transom has had more holes filled than a Las Vegas brothel. I think I'll name this boat swiss cheese....LOL

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/002-1.jpg

But I'm not bad at small scale fiberglass repairs....
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/004-1.jpg

I had to cut the motor mounts out for the z-drive set up and build new mounts out of 3 MM carbon fiber. I thought the inside was going to look like crap but it doesn't look bad considering all this hull has gone through.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/008.jpg

I ordered a dual rudder from Top Secret boats that should be here tomorrow. I think it will look and handle good with these drives. I think the original MHZ rudder was just to small, it didn't look right.

More to come soon.........

[Doby]

:sleep:Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............:sleep:

This build is taking to long.....................

Things are frozen up here and I need to boat vicariously through others.......

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....ZZZZZZzzzzzzzz...... ................:closedeyes:

[ScarabChris]

:sleep:Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............:sleep:

This build is taking to long.....................

Things are frozen up here and I need to boat vicariously through others.......

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....ZZZZZZzzzzzzzz...... ................:closedeyes:

LOL.....Damn dude give me a break. Just because its sunny and 70 degrees here doesn't mean all the parts I need are in a hugh RC boat stock room in my house.

I ran the boat with the z-drives and had they worked out the build would be about done, but now I am starting over.

[ScarabChris]

OK I tracked down some props, they came from DasBoata. What a prompt guy with answering emails. I should have them on Christmas Eve hopefully in time for a test run before we have to go to the family events.

These are stainless steel 6017/3
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/ScarabChris/props.jpg

[ScarabChris]

Getting closer! Got the drives and rudder mounted as well as the motors. This rudder was part of a dual rudder set up I got from Top Secret boats. It looked sweet as a dual setup with the tie bar but these rudders are huge and I simply couldn't put both on this transom without it looking very cluttered so I separated them and used one in the center. I think it looks OK and will perform well.

I test ran the motors once I got the shafts and drives connected and they are super smooth and quiet. Full throttle and no vibration at all.

I still have to make the battery holders, mount the ESCs, RX and route wiring but I can do that after the test run. I have the above pictured props coming today, should be here around noon and I will be able to do a test run.

[Make-a-Wake]

Drives look great! One thing though.....................are you sure you have enough rudder blade in the water? Looks like you may have less than two inches below the bottom of the transom..................

[ScarabChris]

Got 2.25" exactly from the keel. This is a measurement I am familiar with from my gas boating days.

[forescott]

Keep an eye on the water flow with those dual inlet pick-ups. I use those on a couple of hulls and they don't flow the water too well. I definitly like the aluminum hardware better than the scale drives!

[befu]

Bummer about the Z-drives, those looked really good.

The surface drives also look great, but you do lose some of the scale appearance with the rudder. Still, this will be great to see run and get some performance ideas from. I still want to build a 54" scarab again someday, and this will give many people some good information.

do you need any vinyl cut? Also have a masking film I can run through the cutter, let me know.

PM'ing you with a question on the z-drives.

Brian

[ScarabChris]

Yeah baby!!!!

Did a test run...wow these motors scream. And what a cool sound, silent until you stomp on it.

I just did a run in my canal and I could barely get to 1/2 throttle before the boat was gone. And being at the end of the canal my only point of view was with the boat coming at me or going away from me. And with the boat going away from me all I could see is rooster tail.

I'm going to take it out on the real boat this weekend and get some video.

These props seem to work good, the shafts are so long I has to use a bushing so the nut would be tight.

This was only a quick run so no real temp reading yet. The motors, ESCs and batts were barely warm to the touch. I could see water coming out of the ESCs but not the motors, I think there needs to be more speed to force the water through the motor jacket.

I'm not done with the layout in here yet. I got a few cool ideas. Stay tuned.

[LarrysDrifter]

Keep an eye on the water flow with those dual inlet pick-ups. I use those on a couple of hulls and they don't flow the water too well. I definitly like the aluminum hardware better than the scale drives!

:iagree:I ran 2 of the dual outlets in my EKOS-each line fed one part.I still could not see water coming out if the outlet.Nothing ever ran hot,but still never saw any water coming out.Ive seen guys make pickups from bent brass tubing cut flush with the floor of the hull.I think this will work much better.Dont want to see you burn up anything.

[blackcat26]

Those drives look great Chris! Is the rudder gonna be throwing some wash into those props in the turns? Looks close but hard to tell.

[Make-a-Wake]

Hi Chris, from what i can tell from the pics your motor cooling jacket has the exit line at the wrong end. For max. pressure and cooling you need to have the water inlet on the shaft end down low and the exit on the other end at the highest point. This will allow the water jacket to fill up and cool the entire motor. This could be the cause of very little exit flow.

Looks great!

[ScarabChris]

Just got back from the family Christmas festivities. Man did I eat and drink a lot.



Those drives look great Chris! Is the rudder gonna be throwing some wash into those props in the turns? Looks close but hard to tell.

Yes in turns the rudder throws air into whichever prop its pointing at. No real way around this unless I extend the rudder behind the props. Common issue with twin props and single center rudder. On a single prop you put the rudder to the right of the prop so in the usual clockwise running course the rudder is throwing air away from the prop.

But I'll tell you the boat turns very well, just not at low speed. No sharp turns at idle speed.


Hi Chris, from what i can tell from the pics your motor cooling jacket has the exit line at the wrong end. For max. pressure and cooling you need to have the water inlet on the shaft end down low and the exit on the other end at the highest point. This will allow the water jacket to fill up and cool the entire motor. This could be the cause of very little exit flow.

Looks great!

There is very little angle in the motors. The water enters on the bottom front of the motor and exits on the top rear. Water is going through because the lines were all full of water after the run.

I'll run it hard on Sunday and get a close look at whats coming out the outlet. Its tough to tell when the boat is heading toward me at 50 MPH.

[forescott]

These are the best water pick-ups you can buy IMO. I've used em all and this one flows the most water by far, and the little bit of drag created is not even measurable.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-ocsw

[ScarabChris]

OK......I finally got to open this boat up. It fly's! And when I say it fly's I mean just that. I can't get past 3/4 throttle or the entire boat gets air born. And I have it trimmed out pretty god. She is level and stable. Its just insanely fast.

Sorry no video, conditions would not allow it. I was out on the real boat by myself and the current was pushing me around so I had to drive the RC boat and maintain position on the real boat. And with the speed of the 54 Fountain there was no way I was going to attempt to video.

I was running it with just the 2 batteries and surprisingly I had a decent run time. Just to keep the boat in the water I put one of the extra batteries in the hull and it still wanted to fly. Its got to be 70+ MPH.

Another thing, I need to put the rudder behind the props, turning sucks unless you're going 30+ MPH. This rudder was part of a dual rudder. So I need to find out if they make the same dual rudder that is long enough to go behind the props, if not I'll have to make an extension.

I'm getting good water flow through all the lines, I can clearly see the two streams coming out each side. The motors and batteries were barely warm to the touch but the ESC's were a little hot. Surprising considering they are getting the most water flow.

I'm going to correct the steering and get a buddy to go with me to video this week. By then I'll have a GPS in there so we will know exactly how fast.

[forescott]

Awesome! It's a great feeling when you spend soo much time and money on a project and you get great results like this. Can't wait to see her run!!

[Make-a-Wake]

Wow...............GOT to see this vid when you get one! A rudder extension would surely fix your steering issues...........maybe get the rudder even with the props.

[ScarabChris]

Yes, I was happy as hell when I saw it get air born and flip around, but at the same time I was worried about damage. The thing just lifted out of the water and did a summersault, landed right side up facing in the opposite direction. I kept right on going.

Something that will take time to get used to. If I put it to full throttle there is a slight delay before the motors open up and when they do its a huge burst of speed. I believe its this massive burst that blows the boat over.

Anyway, this is an epic build for me. The boat weighs nearly 30 pounds RTR and its so fast that it won't stay in the water.

[ScarabChris]

Wow...............GOT to see this vid when you get one! A rudder extension would surely fix your steering issues...........maybe get the rudder even with the props.

I have already ordered the new rudders. .......

http://www.topsecretboats.com/inc/sdetail/4988

This will get the rudders directly behind the props. This will allow me to steer nice and sharp at slow speeds and have much better control at high speed. No big deal if it slows the boat down a bit. I'm quite sure I will never be able to unleash the full potential of those twin Leopard 5692 motors.

Not to worry guys, as soon as I get the new rudders on the vid will be here. I just wish I had someone taping the first run when it flew out of the water...and my reaction. :rockon2:

[ScarabChris]

OK I got a nice rudder on and working great. She turns on a dime no matter what speed. Video and GPS speed readings this Sunday weather permitting.

[ScarabChris]

Oh and monojeff is working on this wrap for me....

[Make-a-Wake]

Looks great.................you've got some serious hardware hanging off the back of that boat!

Would it run/turn better without those little skegs on the bottom of the struts?

[blackcat26]

There is a guy in town here that has a 42' like that one with custom paint, it's badazz.

[RIPFENCE]

wow this boat is looking sweet

[ScarabChris]

Looks great.................you've got some serious hardware hanging off the back of that boat!

Would it run/turn better without those little skegs on the bottom of the struts?

Yeah lots of metal back there. Don't know how it would run without the skegs on the drives. But on the MHZ website they say the skegs are perfect for larger V hulls with lots of power and step hulls. Seems like a perfect match.

I'm actually going to run it tomorrow (New Years Eve) I'll definitely be able to get a GPS speed reading. I'll have to see if the wife can come out to take video.

[Make-a-Wake]

Gps with no vid isnt valid here.................LOL:bounce:

Try to get some vid.................we're all waiting to see that big sucker movin'!:thumbup1:

[ScarabChris]

Video will happen for sure. Just not sure if I can get it done tomorrow. If not tomorrow then Sunday for sure.

[ScarabChris]

OK.....I did a test run this morning. Video is uploading now, but the video sucks because I was alone.

The steering issue is worked out, it handles perfect. But I am having an ESC issue. Just as the boat is reaching top end one of the ESCs shuts down. I pulled the boat in to check temps and the ESC that is shutting down is at 151 degrees. The one that stays working gets to 125 degrees.

The motors are super cool as well as the batteries.

Is there a setting in the ESC setup that I missed? I didn't do anything with the timing setting. Just the forward/reverse and the LVC. LVC is working perfect, both motors go into slow mode once the cells hit 3.7 volts.

The GPS only recorded a top speed of 47 MPH before the one ESC shut down.

Too much prop? Not enough ESC? Timing or other setting off?

[ScarabChris]

Here is the video, again not very impressive because the camera was sitting on the seat. And you're only seeing about half throttle, maybe slightly more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1ButlxANBQ

[Brushless01]

Nice vids man. but YOU MUST ALWAYS TAPE YOUR HATCH its incredibly important !!!!!!!!

[johnson22456]

Impressive!!!

[Checkmateguy01]

Very nice!! Even at half throttle it's crossing some water quick! I can't wait to see some full throttle passes!! :popcorn2:

[ScarabChris]

Very nice!! Even at half throttle it's crossing some water quick! I can't wait to see some full throttle passes!! :popcorn2:

Yeah me either. I need to figure out why that one ESC is shutting down. I'm wondering if the battery on that ESC was not fully charged because it didn't shut down the first time I tested it. But then again that ESC was hot....151 degrees!!

These are Hobbywing 180 Marine's. How hot should they get at an acceptable load?

[ScarabChris]

Well I ran the boat again this morning. After setting the timing on the ESC and adding my extra "custom" cooling the boat ran great. The thing was screaming! Not shutting down.

Everything was great until........I lost a shaft and prop!!

I am blown away. It was the solder joint that came undone. OK no big deal it happens. But these MHZ drives have a little set screw in the drive and when you screw it in the screw protrudes into a groove on the shaft to prevent it from slipping out.

The pics show the screw is still in place but I lost the shaft anyway. I even played it extra safe and put collars on the shafts in the hull.

To hell with these solder shafts. I'm going to get the 1/4" flex shafts that have the prop shaft welded to it.

But anyway...before the boat lost the prop and shaft she hit 52 MPH! That was with just a tiny burst of full throttle. If I hold the throttle down for more than 1-2 seconds the boat gets lose and wants to fly. I still need to trim it out. Once she is trimmed and I can hold full throttle for a while I think it will pass 60.

[forescott]

Very nice! I like what you did with the esc cooling. One thing I notice from your pics, not a big thing, but I would replace those t-fittings with the y=fittings that ose sells to get a more even split of water. Great job! :thumbup1:

[ScarabChris]

Those T fittings you see are just for the flushing system. If you look above them you can see 4 hose barbs that are capped off.

I run in salt water so as soon as I'm done running I have a little flush rig that connects the hose to all 4 cooling systems.

[dasboata]

Chris great job on the boat glad you finaly got her running right !!!!! I would try to remove the skegs on the drives !!! well good luck thanks chris

[ScarabChris]

OK.....I got some props and shafts back in this boat. I went with the Hughey shafts to eliminate that solder joint. But the MHZ drive was bigger inside than the standard 1/4" shaft so I got some shaft bushings like this......

http://www.gizmomotors.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=73&category_id=9&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=56

Worked perfect. In fact I think its even smother than the original MHZ shaft.

The props I got from DasBoata, these are some sweet props, all modded, sharpened and balanced. I'll cry if I loose one of these. I did a quick test run in the canal behind my house and I can tell the boat is going to be faster with these props. Tomorrow we will see.

Now some finished pics.......

I switched to the black cooling line, I think its a much cleaner look.

Take a look at those prop nuts. The prop hubs are thin so now the prop nuts look huge. Anyone know where I can get a slimmer prop nut or bullet nut?

[ScarabChris]

Few more pics.....

[monojeff]

OK.....I got some props and shafts back in this boat. I went with the Hughey shafts to eliminate that solder joint. But the MHZ drive was bigger inside than the standard 1/4" shaft so I got some shaft bushings like this......

http://www.gizmomotors.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=73&category_id=9&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=56

Worked perfect. In fact I think its even smother than the original MHZ shaft.

The props I got from DasBoata, these are some sweet props, all modded, sharpened and balanced. I'll cry if I loose one of these. I did a quick test run in the canal behind my house and I can tell the boat is going to be faster with these props. Tomorrow we will see.

Now some finished pics.......

I switched to the black cooling line, I think its a much cleaner look.

Take a look at those prop nuts. The prop hubs are thin so now the prop nuts look huge. Anyone know where I can get a slimmer prop nut or bullet nut?

I have heard bad stories of people using the bullet nuts.
The zubers may not look pretty but you certainly do not want to loose those props.
Awesome how chris thins the hubs & his prop work is second to none.

[ScarabChris]

Yeah I was thinking that with the bullet nuts, they look sweet but no nylon lock to keep it in place. Then again I have always used the bullet nuts on my gas boats and never lost a prop. Some of them have set screws.

But you're right, why take the risk and loose an 80 dollar prop over a 3 dollar bullet nut.

Then how about some smaller diameter nuts. I know they exist I just can't find them.

[Make-a-Wake]

Hi Chris, nice work! Some vid at WOT would be really great!

BTW, am i seeing the tubing correctly that you have it running to the motor first then the esc? If so, that could be why your ESC has been getting warm/hot. ESC shouyld always be first from what i've learned.............thats how i run mine.

[ScarabChris]

Thanks!

Each ESC and motor has its own cooling. There are 4 separate cooling systems in the boat. If you look at the pic of me flushing it you will see water spitting from 4 locations.

[ScarabChris]

I have a buddy coming over tomorrow to shoot video.

[Brushless55]

I dig the heat shrink on your lipo packs

[ScarabChris]

Ha! Its just diamond plate decal sheet. I thought it would look cooler than blue. I also have carbon fiber decal sheet. I'll do the other set of batteries in that.

[monojeff]

Yeah I was thinking that with the bullet nuts, they look sweet but no nylon lock to keep it in place. Then again I have always used the bullet nuts on my gas boats and never lost a prop. Some of them have set screws.

But you're right, why take the risk and loose an 80 dollar prop over a 3 dollar bullet nut.

Then how about some smaller diameter nuts. I know they exist I just can't find them.

I have the zuber nuts which are smaller then the ones you posted in your picture.
No nylon lock inside but from what I have been told & read as I have not had a chance to run my boat yet but from most of the gas guys on JRCBD use the zuber nuts. Zippkits sells them $1.50 each.

[monojeff]

BTW Boat is looking good I should have more done on the wrap soon.
Here is a picture for everyone to check out of the rough draft on it.
Still need to adjust a few things and add in some detail.

[Brushless55]

Ha! Its just diamond plate decal sheet. I thought it would look cooler than blue. I also have carbon fiber decal sheet. I'll do the other set of batteries in that.

very cool!

[ScarabChris]

BTW Boat is looking good I should have more done on the wrap soon.
Here is a picture for everyone to check out of the rough draft on it.
Still need to adjust a few things and add in some detail.

Hey if its possible I would like that red to be dark, like maroon.

[monojeff]

Hey if its possible I would like that red to be dark, like maroon.

I was planning to make it similar to the actual photo color.
Do you want it darker then that or same??
The proof color is maybe a shade lighter at the moment I would say??

[ScarabChris]

No just like the photo is what I am looking for.

Thanks!

[monojeff]

No just like the photo is what I am looking for.

Thanks!

Yep I will match the color as best I can.

[ScarabChris]

Here is a quick video, just two passes. I would have more but I am still having one ESC shut down at full throttle as you will see in the 2nd run the boat hooks hard to the left then I turn right just before she hits the shore....this time.

Just after this video was shot the ESC shut down causing a sharp turn which caused the boat to run up on shore at about 40 MPH. Amazingly no damage even though the boat broke through some brush and ran over rocks. Just some small nicks on the drive skegs and rudder. The shear pin on the rudder worked perfect, it tilted up as soon as it hit ground.

Worst part was I had to climb out of the boat in knee deep water and make my way 10 feet up in the weeds. LOL

So yeah the ESCs are still getting hot. One is shutting down and the other is right behind it. I think I may have to bite the bullet and get the 240 amp ESCs. Even if I get the one to not shut down I think I am just too close to the threshold with these ESCs. I'll never be able to play with bigger props or run in choppy water.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu6oJyax4ZI

[Brushless55]

I dig the black cooling lines
what and where do you get that?

[ScarabChris]

Gizmo Motors.....
http://www.gizmomotors.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=8&Itemid=56

The picture doesn't show black but they are black.

[blackcat26]

Chris, have you determined whether your esc is shutting down due to heat or from the lvc?

[befu]

An eagle tree data logger would tell you what voltage the esc is seeing and might help you figure out what is going on.

Brian

[ScarabChris]

Pretty positive its shutting down from heat, its hitting 150 degrees and on a fresh battery.

Yeah I may try the data logger thing first. The thing I like about these ESCs is reverse. None of the higher amp ESCs have reverse. I use it often.

[dasboata]

Chris the boat run nice , sorry about running it up in the woods ! can you raise the drives anymore this will lessen the load ? Also you need to send me the other 6017/3 and the 5517/3 that you want bored out email me for my address , How do you feel the 6017/3 modded by me are working ?? thanks chris

[dasboata]

PS I stock XL black silicone line email me if interested dasboata@aol.com

[ScarabChris]

Chris the boat run nice , sorry about running it up in the woods ! can you raise the drives anymore this will lessen the load ? Also you need to send me the other 6017/3 and the 5517/3 that you want bored out email me for my address , How do you feel the 6017/3 modded by me are working ?? thanks chris

Yeah I'm going to send you the props tomorrow. I was going to do it last week but I took the wife and kid to a last minute Disney World trip.

I can raise the drives but as they are the boat rides super nice. If I raise them up I'm afraid it will get lose and sloppy.

I didn't notice much change in top speed with the modded props other than a slightly quicker hook up (hole shot) In fact based on the GPS it was 3 MPH slower but I'm not entirely sure the GPS had a signal the whole time. When I took it out of the boat it said "no signal" but had a top recorded speed of 52 MPH.

I'll see what it does with the 5517's.

[Make-a-Wake]

Hey Chris........nice lookin' run.............very stable! Have you tried all the possibilities yet? Swapping the esc's, setting LVC to "no protection" for a quick run etc.......etc............ Have you checked cap temps? Have you tried 2p? I had a boat that cutoff very quickly on 1p............2p went great!

[Rumdog]

Doesn't seem like 150 should cause it to thermal

[Make-a-Wake]

:iagree:

I bet 2p solves it.

[ScarabChris]

Hmmm...let me try a few things this week. If I can avoid another 500 beans on new ESCs I would be happy.

Is 150 degrees normal for these ESCs?

[Brushless55]

what about extra caps?

[ScarabChris]

Yeah the boat runs nice, I got a few runs that were faster than what you see there. The one just before it ran into the brush was very nice. I think it was over 55 MPH but for some reason the GPS lost signal.

[ScarabChris]

what about extra caps?


I would have no idea how to do that.

[blackcat26]

Just solder them into the power leads of the esc or piggy back em in to the original location where they are soldered. May help. Another member on here is running a pretty big boat and had to add some extra.

[Make-a-Wake]

Added two more 1000uf 35v's to my T180.............cooled the caps down a fair amount.

[ScarabChris]

Interesting.

I think I need to get this eagle tree thing-a-ma-jig so I can see whats going on in the system before I start altering things.

[ScarabChris]

OK after some tinkering the winner is............



:iagree:

I bet 2p solves it.


Yes running 2 packs per motor solved the shut down. I did swap the ESCs and the same ESC is still getting hot, over 150 degrees, but no shut down.

I can only assume the problem was that the motor and ESC was sucking the juice out of the battery so fast that the ESC read it as low voltage and went into LVC protection.

And despite the extra weight of the batteries the boat hit 57.6 MPH! I am sure this is already a 60 MPH boat as I clocked that 57.6 in short bursts of speed, less than 100 feet. If I get into an open area where I can hold full throttle for a little bit I am sure it will pass 60 MPH.

Man the boat was running so sweet and stable, I guess the extra weight made it ride more stable.

I was alone again today so no video, but I will get a video tomorrow and post it.

For now......

[dasboata]

nice great to see you got it worked out

[ScarabChris]

OK....I got another video on Sunday. But thanks to my wife its only 30 seconds long, just one pass by at 57.3 MPH.

Apparently I was in the way so she stopped recording and started over again. Unfortunately the 2nd video with the good footage never got recorded.

I did some sweet fly by runs and on the last fly by the boat flew out of the water again and ended with a spectacular end over end crash! I was so excited I got it on video so I could show it here. Then she gives me the bad news! :cursing:

The good news is the only damage to the boat was the steering servo mount came lose. The bad news is that mount coming lose prevented us from recording the run over again. :cursing:

Its always freakin something!!!

So until next weekend here is the short run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIiYTPbq9qY

[Make-a-Wake]

Didnt even have time to take a bite of my popcorn during that vid................:laugh:

Boy she sure throws up a roost! Looks great and sounds even better:rockon2:

[ScarabChris]

OK guys, here is another video. But as usual there is a problem. Damn, if I could run the boat and the camera at the same it's probably the only way the video will come out the way I want it.

This time I had my "electronically challenged" friend Jeff shoot again. I specifically told him DO NOT ZOOM IN on the boat but of course he didn't listen and the result is the boat zipping through the frame and poor footage. :cursing:

But you can get the idea of how she runs. And the boat hit 59.3 MPH this time which made me happy. This was on a pair of worked 6017/3 SS props by Chris (dasboata).

Good job on the props Chris, thats a 2+ MPH increase from the other set of props.

Notice the super short space I am achieving 59.3 MPH in, once I get this boat in the big lake where I can run it out it should easily pass 60 MPH.

NOTE: Don't let your young kids watch the video, there are a few F bombs in it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2k1QG8Pfmk

[Make-a-Wake]

A vid Zoomer and a potty mouth........nice!:ohmy:

That thing is a pig! Torque out the A$$, and sounds wicked.:buttrock: That 2p is a charm in the big boys isnt it!

Really like that boat:thumbup1:

[ScarabChris]

Yeah no doubt 2 packs per motor is what woke the boat up. And yes my friend is horrible at video and has a pottie mouth. He is so stuck in the 80's. Would you believe he doesn't even own a computer and has never even used one? I guess he didn't do too bad considering the most modern piece of technology he own and uses is your basic flip cell phone.

[Make-a-Wake]

LOL...........at least its not one of those big 80's bagphones..................



Get that sucker over 60!

[marko500]

Hey I still have one of those 80's bag phones, on a shelf in the basement! My kids found it and could not stop laughing. LOL
Your boat looks great Chris!

Mark

[dasboata]

Looking good Chris !!! I knew the full blade 6017/3 would be faster,,, that's some tight quarters you are running in,,, Saltwater correct ? I would be using WD40 in all the water jackets after a days running What year scrarb is that ? looks like a nice clean boat and well taken care of I was looking for a Sport scarab like that last year settled for a smaller CC that we re rigged with a new Yam thanks chris

[ScarabChris]

That canal where I am running the boat on video is brackish. But I do run it in the intracoastal too but I can't get it to full speed because of the chop and boat wakes.

I have a built in flushing system on the RC boat. I hook it to the freshwater wash down on my Scarab and flush and rinse everything as soon as it comes out of the water.

My Scarab is a 1994 and I bought it in 2002. I have re-done the entire boat top to bottom. It shows better than most 2 year old boats.

[monojeff]

Hey Chris,
Should be getting those swatches out to you next day or two.

[martno1fan]

Boat runs awesome im considering a similar build on one of my own 58 Apaches may i ask what batterys your using in your setup ie how many cells.
Mart

[ScarabChris]

I'm using 4 Turnigy 5000 mAh 40C 6S. Two batteries per motor. Run time is pretty good.

[martno1fan]

Thats pretty impressive speed,i was thinking id neeed to go to 10 s lipos to get above 50 mph.A friend and customer is building one of my hulls with twin T 600 ,880 KV Turnigy outrunner motors on 6s lipos,be interesting to see how they compair to the Leopard motors your using.Keep the vids coming :thumbup1:.
Mart

[Neveryachtz]

Not trying to revive old thread... Just read all 7 pages, thanks everyone for the info. Will be referring to this a lot in my build.