DF 23 Sniper new @ OSE, Yeah Baby!!

[ray schrauwen]

Steve has now stocked some of these puppies...

I was thinking of getting the kit only from DF directly but, they wanted $200+ shipping for it...

This is built and is only $245 !!

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=df-mini-sniper-arr

Great work Steve, thanks alot for making me want, yet another boat, Jeeese!:help::doh::buttrock:

[westbeach]

I love my DF Sniper RTR. I am glad Steve is carrying them. Oh Yeah! :banana:

[westbeach]

Forgot to add, check the battery tray, could use a little more epoxy or jb weld. Mine broke loose when I was stuffing foam in the bow. :thumbup1:

[Doby]

Steve has now stocked some of these puppies...

I was thinking of getting the kit only from DF directly but, they wanted $200+ shipping for it...

This is built and is only $245 !!

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=df-mini-sniper-arr

Great work Steve, thanks alot for making me want, yet another boat, Jeeese!:help::doh::buttrock:

What,,,seeing mine run didn't make you want one:w00t:

[ray schrauwen]

What,,,seeing mine run didn't make you want one:w00t:

Seeing yours made me want one to go faster :roflol: :w00t::sarcasm1:

[Brushless55]

Very cool!
can you run 4s on them?

[lectriglide]

Nice boat! I have a question about the stinger. It looks fixed (non adjustable). Is there no need to move it and are any adjustments made by the trim tabs and/or moving the COG?

[ray schrauwen]

Very cool!
can you run 4s on them?

Doby's too much of a Puss to try. He is worried the $20 esc will bite the bullet...

Wusssssss....:tongue_smilie::ThumbsDown01:

[questtek]

This is one GRTEAT boat. Tomorrow I will run it with a GoGro HD camera on it and after than a full Eagle Tree data monitoring. WIll post the results.............and some comparisons in the first Forum area..............

[Joern Markset]

I have some of them left that goes for $160,- :banana:
Will not be stocking these anymore

[Steven Vaccaro]

Nice boat! I have a question about the stinger. It looks fixed (non adjustable). Is there no need to move it and are any adjustments made by the trim tabs and/or moving the COG?

yes its fixed.

[ray schrauwen]

What size is the stub shaft for the prop?

[Steven Vaccaro]

4mm

[ray schrauwen]

Thanks,

Well, to DF23 owners, there are some cherry cnc props out of China recently, some threaded some not but, with drive dog & 4mm bore, shweet!!
Of course the price is very good too!

Sorry, I'm not posting unless You say its o.k.

[westbeach]

Okay Ray, when are you getting yours?? BTW, have a link to the cherry props?? PM me. Thanks:thumbup1:


Thanks,

Well, to DF23 owners, there are some cherry cnc props out of China recently, some threaded some not but, with drive dog & 4mm bore, shweet!!
Of course the price is very good too!

Sorry, I'm not posting unless You say its o.k.

[Brushless55]

Doby's too much of a Puss to try. He is worried the $20 esc will bite the bullet...

Wusssssss....:tongue_smilie::ThumbsDown01:

:rofl:
I would really love to know how well they do or do not do on 4s

[H2OCamel]

Man now I want one!

[Brushless55]

Man now I want one!

get one and let me know how it does on 4s :laugh:

[questtek]

Ran my Sniper today, stock set up, with full Eagle Tree set up. My RPM was off since I did not know how many poles this small ourtrunner has? (you need to enter the value since I am using the brushless motor sensor).

Second question, what motor, brushless outrunner, I assume due to the nice water cooled mount, would you recommend as an upgrade. I already have a bunch of spae Seaking waterproof ESC's that go all the way to 180 AMps?

[Joern Markset]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Oee45jwK-Q
Customer of mine changed his boat a little from stock as the video shows.

[westbeach]

I personally think keeping the rpm/kv to under 30,000 is probably the best route to take. IE upgrading the motor to higher KV. Rather than throwing a 4s in there. JMO. It might be worth just seeing what a 4S will; but for running with a little more speed, a higher KV motor for sure.

[Brushless55]

well I have 6 2200mah 3s packs and 4 2200mah 4s packs so I could have a very fun day with one of these DF23's!

[westbeach]

What are ya waiting for?? Christmas?? :roflol:


well I have 6 2200mah 3s packs and 4 2200mah 4s packs so I could have a very fun day with one of these DF23's!

[Brushless55]

What are ya waiting for?? Christmas?? :roflol:

Uh well, last Sunday I picked up a never flown Trex600 and yesterday I got in the mail a Thunder Tiger Outlaw OBL
two deals I could not pass up :banana:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww39/filmmaker2009/018-3.jpg

[Krowbar69]

Hey! sweet looking boat and heli bud... looks like a blast!

[questtek]

I personally think keeping the rpm/kv to under 30,000 is probably the best route to take. IE upgrading the motor to higher KV. Rather than throwing a 4s in there. JMO. It might be worth just seeing what a 4S will; but for running with a little more speed, a higher KV motor for sure.

Here is the upgrade motor I have installed and will test today:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8594

[Brushless55]

Hey! sweet looking boat and heli bud... looks like a blast!

thanks and I'm stoked! :rockon2:

[ray schrauwen]

Uh well, last Sunday I picked up a never flown Trex600 and yesterday I got in the mail a Thunder Tiger Outlaw OBL
two deals I could not pass up :banana:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww39/filmmaker2009/018-3.jpg

Be warned, that TT boat may smoke the motor & ESC first run.

Don't see how they expected a 37mm outrunner to power a 40" boat????:glare:

Nice looking boat though, lots of upgrade possible.

[Brushless55]

Be warned, that TT boat may smoke the motor & ESC first run.

Don't see how they expected a 37mm outrunner to power a 40" boat????:glare:

Nice looking boat though, lots of upgrade possible.

No worries Ray :hug1:
the first thing I'm doing is pulling the motor and esc (selling them)
and putting in a ....:spy: motor and ....:spy: esc and run on 6s :rockon2:

but post me an outrunner you think would make this hull fly

[ray schrauwen]

No worries Ray :hug1:
the first thing I'm doing is pulling the motor and esc (selling them)
and putting in a ....:spy: motor and ....:spy: esc and run on 6s :rockon2:

but post me an outrunner you think would make this hull fly

Its a good motor for a 25"-29" hull but, not 40", Jeese!:sinking-guy:


A Turnigy HK 4030 1400KV will get it moving well but, I am going to use a Leopard 5692 1092 KV in my 40" mono build. Just have to start it....

I am going to try the Turnigy 880Kv motor or the 1100Kv one on 7S2P also, to see how they work.

They are very nice motors for the money.

[Tunda]

Steven are you going to get the kit also?

[Steven Vaccaro]

Steven are you going to get the kit also?

I'm not sure. I have to check on the price difference.

[befu]

Don't see how they expected a 37mm outrunner to power a 40" boat????:glare:



How fast is it supposed to go and what size prop does it have? I have a 36mm outrunner powering a large 40" long scale scarab hull with a x442 or x445 prop. Works great, but it does only go 30mph. Still, it is fun to run as a scale looking offshore boat. (motor looks really tiny in that large hull!)

I agree if they want 40mph seems like it would be pushing it. How long is the outrunner also?

Brian

[Brushless55]

How fast is it supposed to go and what size prop does it have? I have a 36mm outrunner powering a large 40" long scale scarab hull with a x442 or x445 prop. Works great, but it does only go 30mph. Still, it is fun to run as a scale looking offshore boat. (motor looks really tiny in that large hull!)

I agree if they want 40mph seems like it would be pushing it. How long is the outrunner also?

Brian

not to jack this thread :spy:
but this is the outrunner he was talking about that came in my Outlaw OBL
its for sale :biggrin:
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww39/filmmaker2009/024.jpg

[ray schrauwen]

MAnual shows that it was to run on a 225 prop stock.

Kv was 1500, not sure on stock battery voltage requirements but, 4S to 5S sounds right. Remember it only has a Seaking 60 amp esc so, don't push it.

I'll give you a whoppping $20 for that motor shipped to my door or $20 just for the cooler if it can be removed as a separate unit?

The motor i think is only rated @ 50 amps.

[Brushless55]

MAnual shows that it was to run on a 225 prop stock.

Kv was 1500, not sure on stock battery voltage requirements but, 4S to 5S sounds right. Remember it only has a Seaking 60 amp esc so, don't push it.

I'll give you a whoppping $20 for that motor shipped to my door or $20 just for the cooler if it can be removed as a separate unit?

The motor i think is only rated @ 50 amps.

It says upto 5s on this motor, its never been ran Ray :thumbup1:
I remember Darla at RCU getting jacked around with her boat
someone on youtube has the OBL running 5s with a CF45 prop and it looks real good
so on 5s it could get 800-1000watts
I think in a 26-29 mono it could do very well
http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww39/filmmaker2009/005-8.jpg

[questtek]

Ran the Sniper with the larger HobbyKing water cooled 2-pole inrunner and 90 A SeaKing ESC.
I attached pictures of the Eagle Tree computer Max readings data dump and the EagleTree Power Panel Max readings.

Interesting to note there is a difference, much greater than I would have expected.
There is a difference in 2 mph on the GPS speed, 6 Amp difference in max draw, and 12,000 RPM difference on the max recorded values.

The max motor temp was 125.1 and the low pac voltage was 9.7

I GPS this boat at both 43 and 45 MPH but on a different set of batteries. The LiPos I used 2 x 3s, 2200mah, 25 C are getting pretty tired after lots and lots of test runs. This will account for the slower speeds, in fact the max speed the battery voltage was about 10.1 VDC only!

Important to note for those considering the use of a small ESC is the amp draw I measured. It was pretty consistant at over 100 amps which the 90 Amp SeaKing handled well.

The oscillation is also out of the boat (side-to-sde rocking). This was due to a combination of a bent motor shaft and trim tabs that were incorrectly set. Correcting both of these poblems and the sniter runs stable, true and like an arrow.

[questtek]

Recharged the battery set fully and did another nearly identical run with the DF Sniper. (just a bit shorter)
Pictures show the results
In comparing again the Eagle Tree Computer Max outputs compared to the onboard Eagle Tree Power Panel Max outputs we see:
GPS speed difference is 2 MPH or a difference of almost 6%
Max amp draw is a 7 AMP or almost 7% difference
The RPMS were both EXACTLY the same as I would expect.

The max temp was 115.5F on the motor and the draw 1146 mahr, due to a slightly shorter run than previous.

Note that the max watts out of this water-cooled inrunner small motor was 1143 or about 1.5 HP !

I included a pic of the Turnigy LiPo packs used. You can see the bottom one is a bit puffed!

It is clear that I ned some of the new carbon nano-tube, hi draw battery pacs.

[ray schrauwen]

Once you feel the puffed pack is toast, can you cut the shrink off carefully as not to puncture.

I would like to know if the 3S packs have both + & - tabs on one end or if they are on apposing ends.

If they are on apposing ends, this may contribute to the puffing as there would be an extra conductor needed to go from the odd cell to the front of the pack.

The 3S Nano tech cells I have, 25-50C 4500's have both tabs at one end of the cell which I feel is superior to the old methods I've heard of with an extra "weak link" conductor to get the leads to come out of one end only.

Older odd numbered packs of 3S & 5S with a tab on each end had this weak link so to say and was a cause of some early failures. Apparently, this was first noticed by the Heli guys running 3S packs etc...

So my curiousity made me cut open my brand new 3S nano's

[Brushless55]

Dang I need to just pull the trigger on one of these and try 4s on the stock setup! :rockon2:

[questtek]

Dang I need to just pull the trigger on one of these and try 4s on the stock setup! :rockon2:

Do you really think that tiny brushless will handle it? Who knows, the small HobbyKing inrunner, (3900kv),r I am using has the following specs:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8594

Even at 3s that is a LOT of RPm's to handle.

[questtek]

Here are the batteries I am thinking to get for the Sniper to get some real potential speed.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11953

However, these cells in a 2pac configuration will weigh 634 grams and the Turnigy 2200's twin pacs I am running now weigh 388 grams. I will get lots more omph....BUT the weight increased by almost 40%. I will have to think about that a bit more. Maybe a single 4000 mahr 3s Nano pac would be better like:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11954

This seems like the best solution at 375 grams, $45, and you can pull 4 x 45 or about 140 AMPS which I need if I believe what the Eagle Tree is telling me at now pulling near 120 AMps. This just might be THE Sniper battery of choice for me.

[Brushless55]

Do you really think that tiny brushless will handle it? Who knows, the small HobbyKing inrunner, (3900kv),r I am using has the following specs:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8594

Even at 3s that is a LOT of RPm's to handle.

on 3s I think that's going to be to much rpms on that HC motor?

[questtek]

Run 3 of the day with the DF Siper.
Rather than wait for a new battery to come, I built my own pac. I had a few 5000, 40C, 4s pacs that were brand new. I just CAREFULLY, cut out one of the cells making it a 3S, 40C, 5000 mAh pac for the Sniper. Weight of the pac only 418 grams. Pics show the 3S next to the factory 4s pac.

Charged the battery and ran the Sniper, getting about 1/2 lap before the Deans on the Eagle Tree came unsoldered. Even with very short run and certainly no where up to speed, you can see the Eagle Tree Data. (I left off the Eagle Tree Pwer Panel).

GPS speed 40 MPH even it a very short distance and not full tilt. The motor only up to 92.4F and I used less than 10% of the battery capacity.
Note also the Amps and RPM. (I have his calibrated for th Eagle Tree brushless RPM sensor as a 2-pole motor, could I be wrong?) I will re-do the connectors and save the next run for the future. It's cocktail time............

[ray schrauwen]

I'll say it again, I think that 2 pole motor will pull more amps than an outrunner, say a 2500Kv or as i am going to try, 1860Kv on 4S. Higher voltage, less amps... Outrunner with much more torque than the 28mm inrunner. Have you ever seen how small the rotors are on a 28mm motor? Teeny Weenie.

If you ran a Leopard 28mm 4 pole motor you would see alot better performance also.

[ray schrauwen]

:confused2:
Run 3 of the day with the DF Siper.
Rather than wait for a new battery to come, I built my own pac. I had a few 5000, 40C, 4s pacs that were brand new. I just CAREFULLY, cut out one of the cells making it a 3S, 40C, 5000 mAh pac for the Sniper. Weight of the pac only 418 grams. Pics show the 3S next to the factory 4s pac.

Charged the battery and ran the Sniper, getting about 1/2 lap before the Deans on the Eagle Tree came unsoldered. Even with very short run and certainly no where up to speed, you can see the Eagle Tree Data. (I left off the Eagle Tree Pwer Panel).

GPS speed 40 MPH even it a very short distance and not full tilt. The motor only up to 92.4F and I used less than 10% of the battery capacity.
Note also the Amps and RPM. (I have his calibrated for th Eagle Tree brushless RPM sensor as a 2-pole motor, could I be wrong?) I will re-do the connectors and save the next run for the future. It's cocktail time............

I don't see where you posted what prop you are running.

This is a major factor, do tell!! :confused2:

[questtek]

STOCK carbon/plastic prop and stock 3 mm drave shaft. (Believe ist is a 434) Next phase is to make a series of runs with different props. I wanted to make sure the new battery would handle things and it appears it may.

[ray schrauwen]

STOCK carbon/plastic prop and stock 3 mm drave shaft. (Believe ist is a 434) Next phase is to make a series of runs with different props. I wanted to make sure the new battery would handle things and it appears it may.

You should find that you will waste less power with a metal prop compared to a plastic one and your speeds will increase too.

I thought you were still using a stock prop. Get rid of that nasty thing.

Now we will see some pretty numbers.

Delta Force website says they use a 42mm 1.4 pitch plastic prop.

@ 60,000 rpm that prop is just wasting energy and bending to all hell.:Peace_Sign:

[ray schrauwen]

Actually the Stub shaft is a 4mm shaft stepped down to .125" with a USA 5-40 thread on the end and a .130" flex cable.

Pretty whacky to use both Metric and Imperial but, hey your car is the same way.

[westbeach]

I picked up some cnc props to test on the sniper, should be here any day now. Also ordered a couple of outrunners to go along with the test.

[questtek]

You should find that you will waste less power with a metal prop compared to a plastic one and your speeds will increase too.

I thought you were still using a stock prop. Get rid of that nasty thing.

Now we will see some pretty numbers.

Delta Force website says they use a 42mm 1.4 pitch plastic prop.

@ 60,000 rpm that prop is just wasting energy and bending to all hell.:Peace_Sign:

Morning run with brass 435 prop
Using the giant 5000 mAhr, 40C, 3S pac my first run terminated with the Deans coming unsoldered and the servo breaking from the mount.

I included a pic of the servo. Note the 4 holes in the mount but there were no screws in them and when making turns in excess of 40 MPH it ripped the servo mount from the base. I re-epoxied it and now added screws to insure this will not happen again. RECOMMEND CHECKING YOUR SNIPERS AND DOING THE SAME.

Resoldered the Deans connectors, recharged the battery and run #2 of the day is shown on the Eagle Tree Display on my laptop. Amps 120 (and this may be the max the Eagle Tree reads but I am thinking it is MUCH higher.) Speed is 44 MPH and that was consistent for all 3 speed passes. Temp of the motor up to 149F, and I used about half the energy in the 5000mAh pac.

There is a problem with the Eagle Tree and RPM. The pic of the display shows the max HOWEVER, the actual RPM when you go thru the runs step-by-step is 30,994 RPM. Why the max value of 63,000 rpm is displayed as max is a mystery to me. Stepping thru the data the highest RPM was about 32,000 which is very realistic.

Amazing I achieved this speed with an inrunner with a badly bent shaft. New outrunners have not come in so I will keep playing with this junk motor till they do.
I also have a 536 brass prop that may even get me faster. However I cannot put it on unless I change the endire drive shaft since the current one is too small for this 1.5 pitch, extended length prop. The nut just will not go on!

I am switching to 6 mm gold bullet connectors on everything and using a different Eagle Tree Logger than can handle 150 AMps because that is what I think I am pulling, not just the 120 amps displayed on the std logger. I may even have to put in a Seaking 180 ESC that I have available.

The Sniper is one great boat to experiment with!

[befu]

Wow, that is some power Questtek.

Did you look at the 2d graph of the data also? I am wondering what the amperage vs. speed curve looked like.

3s at 120 amps is a ton of power! At 3.5v per cell, that is around 1300 watts! This is a 23" boat, right? Same as they are talking about in this thread correct? Wow! And you are getting a peak of 44mph on that setup. could you post the 2d graph? Or, if not, would you email me the data file and I could look at it?

Thank you, keep up the fantastic testing!

Brian

[questtek]

Wow, that is some power Questtek.

Did you look at the 2d graph of the data also? I am wondering what the amperage vs. speed curve looked like.

3s at 120 amps is a ton of power! At 3.5v per cell, that is around 1300 watts! This is a 23" boat, right? Same as they are talking about in this thread correct? Wow! And you are getting a peak of 44mph on that setup. could you post the 2d graph? Or, if not, would you email me the data file and I could look at it?

Thank you, keep up the fantastic testing!

Brian

YES, This amazes me also. The SNiper is one of the best FE's that I have run along with the Insane 30" Hydro. Your are correct in the watts, amazing expecially with a motor with a bent shaft.

I included a pic of the 3 motors:
Stock Brushless
Upgraded Brushless that I just installed
Inrunner with Bent shaft I have been running.

In terms of the data, I just keep the screen shot generally or otherwise I would have way too much data. I will see if I kept this log and if so do a 2-D graph or send you the raw data. If not, I will send you the data from tomorrows run with the new outrunner.

[questtek]

Wow, that is some power Questtek.

Did you look at the 2d graph of the data also? I am wondering what the amperage vs. speed curve looked like.

3s at 120 amps is a ton of power! At 3.5v per cell, that is around 1300 watts! This is a 23" boat, right? Same as they are talking about in this thread correct? Wow! And you are getting a peak of 44mph on that setup. could you post the 2d graph? Or, if not, would you email me the data file and I could look at it?

Thank you, keep up the fantastic testing!

Brian

I did save the data from the 44 MPH Sniper run and have two plots in the attached pics. One is amps vs speed and the other GPS course plot. How do YOU intrepret the Amps vs Speed curve?

[questtek]

Ran the Hobby King motor this morning
Here is the link to the motor I used:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11177

First run on a 2C pac that produced a max speed of 25 MPH, identical to the stock ste-up that comes with the Sniper. Pulled 60 amps at about 8 VDC and the motor temp up to 143F max. Not bad for an $11 brushless outrunner but nothing to write home about.

Second run with a 3s, 5000mah, 40c pac
Max speed 34 MPH (That is 10 MPH SLOWER that with the previous inrunner with a bent shaft)
I was pulling 963 watts from an outrunner rated at 600 watts. Hi Temp at the end of the run was 184.9 F and the little outrunner survived. Max RPM was 43,859. I also recorded a max amp draw of 108! That SeaKing 90 ESC is incredible and I would want nothing smaller.

Tough little motor but these are way too small to really get the Sniper going. I am now looking into one of the Tenshock motors. I will retire the Hobby King motor for now.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Are the hulls light?

[ray schrauwen]

Are the hulls light?

It would make an excellent N1 mono.

Light compared to what?

[ray schrauwen]

Ran the Hobby King motor this morning
Here is the link to the motor I used:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=11177

First run on a 2C pac that produced a max speed of 25 MPH, identical to the stock ste-up that comes with the Sniper. Pulled 60 amps at about 8 VDC and the motor temp up to 143F max. Not bad for an $11 brushless outrunner but nothing to write home about.

Second run with a 3s, 5000mah, 40c pac
Max speed 34 MPH (That is 10 MPH SLOWER that with the previous inrunner with a bent shaft)
I was pulling 963 watts from an outrunner rated at 600 watts. Hi Temp at the end of the run was 184.9 F and the little outrunner survived. Max RPM was 43,859. I also recorded a max amp draw of 108! That SeaKing 90 ESC is incredible and I would want nothing smaller.

Tough little motor but these are way too small to really get the Sniper going. I am now looking into one of the Tenshock motors. I will retire the Hobby King motor for now.

What prop? Did you try more than one prop?

[befu]

Second run with a 3s, 5000mah, 40c pac
Max speed 34 MPH (That is 10 MPH SLOWER that with the previous inrunner with a bent shaft)
I was pulling 963 watts from an outrunner rated at 600 watts. Hi Temp at the end of the run was 184.9 F and the little outrunner survived. Max RPM was 43,859. I also recorded a max amp draw of 108! That SeaKing 90 ESC is incredible and I would want nothing smaller.


Are you sure of these numbers? And this is the 23" boat correct? Your power draw seems way to high. I am running my 24" mono with a turnigy 3650-2300 motor pushing a 38mm plastic prop. Just a slow sport setup, but on a 3s-4400-20c battery setup it is running a consistent 34mph. PEAK amps is 53, but it averages out to the low 30's when running full throttle. That is about 370 watts for a 24" mid vee mono to run 34mph. 963 watts is a lot of power in that small boat to only get 34 mph. That is around mid 80's for amperage! Even if that is only peak, that is really high.

Just looked at that motor. 4400kv is pretty high for 3s, almost 50,000 rpm. I am wondering how loaded down it is. What rpm under load is the eagle tree saying and what prop are you running?

Weather is supposed to be decent this weekend, I will try to get my boat back out and see what I can get out of it. Might have to put in a new speed control, because it only has a 35/40 hobby king SS ESC in it.

I like the look of this little boat and I am curious to what others are getting out of it. Keep posting data, it is interesting.

Brian

[questtek]

Attached pics how the Eagle Tree Data. I have 3 different V3 loggers and used each one of them on the boat. I agree with you and that is why I post the actual screen shots of the Eagle Tree data dump direct from my laptop. YES, the 4400 KV is WAY too high to run on 3S but if you go to the HobbyKing site for this motor (see the link in previous post) you can see it says 2-3 LiPo pacs.

The pics show one run with 2S and two runs with 3s from the Eagle Tree.

I was not happy with these outrunner motors in the Sniper and put in the inrunner to get back in the mid-45 MPH range. We did use these same motors in a Radek designed/built carbon fiber/kevlar dual cat yesterday and the speeds were blistering.....for about 5 sec till it did some incredible airborne flips. I did not have an Eagle Tree on it (no room and CF meant no GPS signal), but imagine the motors each were pulling 600-900 watts each. There was so much power it sound like a jet turbine and actually broke the flex shaft in half. It was running on 2200 mHr 3s lipos for each motor. You can see the post under the video forum and actually see a video of this run.

[Darin Jordan]

Light compared to what?

"Light" isn't a relative term... ;)

To be an "excellent" N1 boat, they need to come in at under 2lbs, fully RTR... which means the hull needs to be around 8oz or so...

[questtek]

"Light" isn't a relative term... ;)

To be an "excellent" N1 boat, they need to come in at under 2lbs, fully RTR... which means the hull needs to be around 8oz or so...

Just weighted the DF Sniper I am using with Seaking 90 water cooled ESC and the larger inrunner motor I referenced. Weight is 1 lb 14.5 oz without the LiPo pac. BUT, that weight also includes the GoPro HD camera mount screwed into the back of the top cowl. Add the lipo pac and you have the total system weight. I do not have a raw hull to weigh. So, less than two lbs RTR, NOT the set up I am running.

[ray schrauwen]

It just seems off to me???

You might get more speed & less amps from a smaller, metal prop.

[questtek]

Ray, Have you upgraded to the HobbyKing motor you recommended? I removed it and back to the inrunner with again good performance. I found that the HK motors that were recommended in this forum were a bit too small after testing them. And you?

[BILL OXIDEAN]

That boat would be PERFECTLY matched with a car system
Namingly Novak.

I'm gonna; get one, slap it in, and show the word what's up..

Little skinny 380 motors and airplane super low kv outrunners are a waste of time.

540 diameter is right for this boat.

A novak 4.5 ballistic system on a 430 prop would rip like a chainsaw on 2s lipo.
9,000 kv with a dynamic timing advance, unstoppable in the thing..

[ray schrauwen]

Frankly I'm still waiting for a HK motor for it.

I really think a smaller prop on 2S and the 4400kv outrunner would go nicely but, I'm speculating> I would run 2S2p for that also (3200Mah total).

Sorry, just been really cold out and my buddies haven't given me enough notice to go out & try it out. I don't go out alone in my wheelchair, to hard for me to launch and retrieve boats.

[ray schrauwen]

That boat would be PERFECTLY matched with a car system
Namingly Novak.

I'm gonna; get one, slap it in, and show the word what's up..

Little skinny 380 motors and airplane super low kv outrunners are a waste of time.

540 diameter is right for this boat.

A novak 4.5 ballistic system on a 430 prop would rip like a chainsaw on 2s lipo.
9,000 kv with a dynamic timing advance, unstoppable in the thing..

I might just take that advice as I have been pondering such ideas...

Just not Novak for me, don't like the price. I can get a high kv 540motor anywhere.

First I'll try it stock, whenever that is .....:crying:

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Frankly I'm still waiting for a HK motor for it.

I really think a smaller prop on 2S and the 4400kv outrunner would go nicely but, I'm speculating> I would run 2S2p for that also (3200Mah total).
s.

Why not just run 4000+ mah 1p?
On smaller boats like this a hard case car pack is perfect.

[ray schrauwen]

Point this Novak System to me... I'll look at it...

[ray schrauwen]

I would but, I would have to start modifying to fit 4000 packs.... eventually....

Remember the water is quickly getting hard up here lol...

2 x 1600 is what I have on hand.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Point this Novak System to me... I'll look at it...

This system will get you 50+mph on 2s

http://cgi.ebay.com/Novak-Havoc-Pro-Ballistic-Brushless-System-3-5T-10500kV-/390254945005?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5add01e2ed#ht_1431wt_907

Less than 200 bux plus the motor is of high value bacause to change winds you only buy a 30 dollar stator

If you bolt this in, you will be telling a friend Lol..

Here's what it will do for you..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_bEL-YUngQ

[Rumdog]

That ESC is rated at 540 amps!!!
And the suggested operating temp of the motor is 160 degrees!
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
If that's true, it is one badass setup!

[BILL OXIDEAN]

That ESC is rated at 540 amps!!!
And the suggested operating temp of the motor is 160 degrees!
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
If that's true, it is one badass setup!

Their amp rating system is much different than what is typically used in boats, its capable of about 150-200 continuous

The motor hits optimum power band at about 160

[Rumdog]

That is awesome. No need for cooling really. Runtime with a 10,000 kv motor would be strictly SAW type though.
There are a few different options too. Price is actually quite good.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

That is awesome. No need for cooling really. Runtime with a 10,000 kv motor would be strictly SAW type though.
There are a few different options too. Price is actually quite good.


I've been able to get away with it running zero cooling on the motor in a 5-lap heat race! I now cool the speedo

[Rumdog]

The 5000kv setup for 3s is even cheaper: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Novak-Havoc-3S-Ballistic-8-5-Traxxas-Plug-NIB-/330497803250?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cf33443f2

[Rumdog]

I've been able to get away with it running zero cooling on the motor in a 5-lap heat race! I now cool the speedo

Using the fan, or water cooling?

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Using the fan, or water cooling?

I was using the fan on the speedo but now i've drilled out the heatsink and run water plus the fan and it works sweet!

it wont let me post a pic for some reason though.
Yes, the 3s setup is reasonably priced and will fly..

[Steven Vaccaro]

Ray, Have you upgraded to the HobbyKing motor you recommended? I removed it and back to the outrunner with again good performance. I found that the HK motors that were recommended in this forum were a bit too small after testing them. And you?

Drop a 380XL motor in there and hang on. Depending on the kv, you would probably need a new esc aslo.

[Joern Markset]

I sold a sniper to a guy that made some improvements to it.
Here is a video of the boat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Oee45jwK-Q&feature=player_embedded

[ray schrauwen]

Joern, those motors aren't available anymore.

Steve, yep, good choice of motor!

[Joern Markset]

Ray, it doesn`t matter because you have already ordered a better option :thumbup1:

[ray schrauwen]

Yes, I Neu... a Leopard.
If I wanted one of those Turnigy's I could get one from the UK on Ebay but, no thanks, I like what I have, or will have soon.

[Rumdog]

I just bought the yellow one from Steve! Woohoo!! Can't wait to get her and make her scoot!

[Brushless55]

right on man!

[Rumdog]

I'm thinking a 540 size motor. Maybe a 380XL like Steve suggested. These things look to handle fantastic once properly trimmed.

[Brushless55]

yeah, maybe a 380 size Leopard

[Joern Markset]

Ray, can you fill in, or has the water became stiff now... hahaha
My pond has now turned over to airport....

[ray schrauwen]

Well, Monday I get the cooler & hopefully I can get out with it this week.

[ray schrauwen]

bump for reference.

[Steven Vaccaro]

I wish the ready to run version was still available!

[ray schrauwen]

I will have a rtr, ready for sale soon made from the FG red hull with DF hardware, all polished up nice. Just neeed to mount servo & battery tray. Need funds for other projects. Should sell pretty quick in the FS section.

Yep, they are nice but, there are a 1/2 dozen boats I would like just as much.

[rbsmith6]

This site looks like the RTR is available.
http://www.deltaforcehobby.com/rtr03.html

[Steven Vaccaro]

This site looks like the RTR is available.
http://www.deltaforcehobby.com/rtr03.html


I dont think these are available. if you find out otherwise, please let me know.

[rbsmith6]

After reading the thread I went searching and came up with that link. I do notice that there isn't a price posted. for either the kit or RTR. It sure looks like a fun boat.

[ray schrauwen]

The RTR's were discontinued a few years ago. You would have to build yourself one.

[rbsmith6]

I also found this today.
http://www.hobby-paradise.com/en/product/item/181/product_detail.html?javaID=71674ea9a3860276e0de31d af2e358cf

[ray schrauwen]

I don't know if I can trust such a hobby store??? When you click on "About Us" there is nothing....

[Brushless55]

I need a prop shaft for mine...
Anyone know where I can buy one at?

thanks