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igottalongone
10-04-2010, 04:30 PM
A quick easy mod...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bm4e6ggncs

Darin Jordan
10-04-2010, 05:00 PM
That's really nicely done. Same idea I did this weekend. Great minds, and all that... ;)

One thing I would recommend, however, is that you allow the standoffs to NOT pass through the strut bracket, and instead, sandwich the spacers (I'd make them out of metal) between the two halves of the strut bracket. This turns it into an "I-Beam" arrangement, making the bracket much stiffer. Might not work as well with the thin standoffs you used, due to their narrow mounting base, but with the larger ones I used, it's rock solid, and the strut brackets don't flex at all.

Either way, it's a good upgrade.

igottalongone
10-04-2010, 05:14 PM
@Darin
We will have to agree to disagree on this one Darin. I preffer this method over the "butt joint" attachment. I've been running this mod since I got the boat, it's worked perfectly and is rock solid... It's just a copy of an Octura Strutter...
C-Ya on the Lake...
~~~~~~~~***-
Ron

Darin Jordan
10-04-2010, 05:15 PM
@Darin
We will have to agree to disagree on this one Darin. I preffer this method over the "butt joint" attachment. I've been running this mod since I got the boat, it's worked perfectly and is rock solid... It's just a copy of an Octura Strutter...
C-Ya on the Lake...
~~~~~~~~***-
Ron

Just a recommendation... yours is just relying on one side of the bracket for torsional rigidity, mine uses both brackets and turns it into an I-Beam. Either will work.

igottalongone
10-04-2010, 05:43 PM
Actually with my union, the more load, the stronger it gets...
Both ways are plenty strong, not counting Turtles and Driftwood...
~~~~~~~***-

jac4412
10-04-2010, 09:11 PM
Darin, igot, how far over did you move your rudder? 1, 2 inch?

ron1950
10-04-2010, 09:41 PM
ok darin .now that u have solved the bounce in the mg lets get on with the racing duck prep thread....lol

7500RPM
10-04-2010, 10:47 PM
Here are some pictures of the rudder mod I did last week.

Well, I took my Cat out on Sunday and NO MORE BOUNCING! all gone! I offset the rudder to the right hand side using Octura offset rudder mounts ( two of them, one for each bolt ) moved the rudder arm to the other side and everything fit Great! Cut a piece of plastic to take up the thickness of the original rudder mount so when you tighten the screws for the Octura standoffs you do not collapse the strut brackets. The only thing I had to do was to slot the holes for the rudder arm. The cat runs much better! faster in the corners and also in the straights! You have to do this! It is worth it for the extra speed you get!

Darin Jordan
10-04-2010, 11:42 PM
Darin, igot, how far over did you move your rudder? 1, 2 inch?

My Spacers are 1.625" long... I also moved the rudder forward a bit, to get the leading edge up closer to being inline with the drive dog, and out of the thrust cone of larger props, and also allows the stock steering linkage to be utilized.

ron1950
10-05-2010, 02:51 PM
i like the octura ready to use offset spacers but cant find any on the net anywhere? anyone know wher i can find a couple of em? thanks

Darin Jordan
10-05-2010, 02:58 PM
Here are some pictures of the rudder mod I did last week.

Well, I took my Cat out on Sunday and NO MORE BOUNCING! all gone! I offset the rudder to the right hand side using Octura offset rudder mounts

Can you elaborate on how long those Octura Spacers are??

Steven Vaccaro
10-05-2010, 03:06 PM
i like the octura ready to use offset spacers but cant find any on the net anywhere? anyone know wher i can find a couple of em? thanks

I have them, but for some reason they disappeared off the site. Probably because they never sold. I have to look for them tonight.

Darin Jordan
10-05-2010, 03:11 PM
I have them, but for some reason they disappeared off the site. Probably because they never sold. I have to look for them tonight.

That would be cool... Let us know.

Also, I was looking at both methods for doing this conversion. It might be advisable, either method, to use a brass, or otherwise "sheerable" fastener on the rudder side, lower mount. Should hold just as strong, but will let go and save the transom in the event of a turtle or other object.

ron1950
10-05-2010, 03:27 PM
hey steve ill take 2 octurea spacers if u can find em.....pm me a price or whatever if u find em thanks

tman52804
10-05-2010, 04:07 PM
I like those octura spacers, they look sweet.


I can't believe how high everyone's strut is. Mine is flush and runs great. When I had mine that high it did a dance.

Darin Jordan
10-05-2010, 04:17 PM
I like those octura spacers, they look sweet.


I can't believe how high everyone's strut is. Mine is flush and runs great. When I had mine that high it did a dance.


It's dependent some on what type of prop you are running. The lower the strut, the more, in general, it pushes the nose down. However, if you have a high lifting prop, then you may need to raise the strut to keep it from pushing the nose down too much, or lifting the back too much. The opposite can be said for low-lift props.

Also, as you go larger in prop diameter, you may need to raise it up as well to get the prop to run freely.

It's a balancing act, which is why there isn't always a clear answer to the question "Which prop is best"... ;)

tman52804
10-05-2010, 04:33 PM
I'm running an x642

tman52804
10-05-2010, 04:51 PM
Couldn't one still use a nylon bolt it the lower hole?


That would be cool... Let us know.

Also, I was looking at both methods for doing this conversion. It might be advisable, either method, to use a brass, or otherwise "sheerable" fastener on the rudder side, lower mount. Should hold just as strong, but will let go and save the transom in the event of a turtle or other object.

Darin Jordan
10-05-2010, 04:52 PM
Couldn't one still use a nylon bolt it the lower hole?

That's what I was thinking, or a brass one (maybe better)... that's how SpeedMaster and others do it, and it works... saves the transom in the event of a harsh contact...

Steven Vaccaro
10-05-2010, 04:53 PM
hey steve ill take 2 octurea spacers if u can find em.....pm me a price or whatever if u find em thanks

I'll work on getting them back on the site and pricing. I also ordered another 10 of them today.

7500RPM
10-05-2010, 06:35 PM
Here is the part number for the standoffs..
Just change the screws to stainless 4/40, as the black ones will rust slightly in the socket heads
Make sure you use longer ones so you have enough to grab the post as you are going
thru both strut brackets and your plastic spacer. The Offset Bracket is threaded all the way. See pictures above, Post #8

jac4412
10-05-2010, 06:50 PM
ya steve I'd be interested in a couple of those as well.

ron1950
10-05-2010, 07:06 PM
steve is my last chance i cant find it anywhere on the net useing the part number.....

Steven Vaccaro
10-05-2010, 07:22 PM
Here they are.
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-oc4off
I have 6 of them, but ordered more.

jac4412
10-05-2010, 07:23 PM
Darin did you just use a solid aluminum plate for your spacer? What width did you use? (I don't have my MG at school so I cant measure)

Darin Jordan
10-05-2010, 08:09 PM
Darin did you just use a solid aluminum plate for your spacer? What width did you use? (I don't have my MG at school so I cant measure)

If you look carefully at my Race Prep thread here, you'll see that I cut a piece off of the foward end of the rudder bracket. I used that piece for the spacer. I was able to do this because I made new holes in the rudder bracket to move the rudder forward, and out of the thrust cone of the prop.

tman52804
10-06-2010, 09:19 AM
How long are the Octura standoffs?

electric
10-06-2010, 01:55 PM
Here they are.
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-oc4off
I have 6 of them, but ordered more.

and there gone.....chuckle. People move fast on this site...

ron1950
10-06-2010, 03:06 PM
water was finally good today for running the mg.....new 642 from chuck and liner programed into esc.....boat ran outstanding...no heat problems etc.....no bounce downwind then into a 5mph wind it would fly the nose and bounce a little but was flying across the water......will try the batteries a few inches more forward on the battery trays next time....i will do the rudder conversion as today was the frist time i really noticed that the rudder really slows the boat in a turn.....love this boat....the stiletto on the other hand ...mmmm not so sure lol

Boomer
10-07-2010, 10:52 AM
Hi Steve
Just checked the site, it shows 0 stock, but I still would like to order a pair or set of the OC40OF Octura Off Set Brackets for my Miss G. If you have the Stainless 4/40 screws (slightly longer than the originals) to replace the black ones that will rust, please include them too.
Boomer.

Good work guys!:thumbup1:

Steven Vaccaro
10-07-2010, 10:55 AM
I should have the brackets in early next week. I don't have any screws but will try to get some before then.

tman52804
10-07-2010, 11:16 AM
Are you speaking Octura standoffs or new type of bracket (standoff)?

Steven Vaccaro
10-07-2010, 11:17 AM
Are you speaking Octura standoffs or new type of bracket (standoff)?

Octura

Boomer
10-07-2010, 11:57 AM
Thanks Steve. I tried to order them online but it wouldn't let me, thus my posting requesting them. I appreciate your sourcing the SS screws too!!
Boomer

Darin Jordan
10-07-2010, 12:08 PM
Just so you guys know... Dubro sells stainless fasteners if you can't get there anywhere else.

Here is a listing of them from Horizon. I believe the Octura mounts likely use 4-40s...

http://search.horizonhobby.com/index.jsp?N=0&Ntt=SS+Sock+Head&sid=12B8772810AA

Steven Vaccaro
10-07-2010, 12:24 PM
Thanks Steve. I tried to order them online but it wouldn't let me, thus my posting requesting them. I appreciate your sourcing the SS screws too!!
Boomer

Thats correct, the site wont take backorders.

Darin thanks for the link.

Boomer
10-10-2010, 10:49 AM
Thought I would share this report with you fellows from the Miss Geico thread on RCGroups.com regarding a fellow MG owner's findings on "off setting" his rudder as described in this thread. I will ask Thomas for some photos to confirm the installation is the same. I haven't made the modification to my MG yet, so I am looking forward to more dialog on the results of those who have.
Boomer

Report from thomaslambo (RGGroups.com)
"FYI - I just got back from the (Hansen)Dam and the rudder mod (done exactly as noted in pics) made almost no difference. It behaves almost exactly the same as the stock center mounted rudder on 4s power. With 5s it behaves just fine either way the rudder is mounted.

IMO Battery placement is the key on this boat....and without question it needs 5s power ....don't even waste your time with 4s.

Bottom line....Bats in the rear on 5s power and she runs beautiful. A touch of weight in the nose and it will handle turbulence and a slight head wind....now I'm going to enjoy the boat until I replace the stock ESC and Motor "

ron1950
10-10-2010, 03:15 PM
mines plenty fast with batteries back and 642 prop...into a small wind it flys the nose and rides on the prop just enough to scare me lol

onegreenray
10-10-2010, 10:30 PM
i will be do for a set of the stand offs as well.

4-40 screws thx Darin.

hobie
10-10-2010, 10:52 PM
I did the conversion two days ago... By far the best thing I have done to this boat!!! It absolutly rocks with the rudder moved over. Handles just as good if not better than stock! I'm so glad I got told about this from a buddy of mine. Whom also supplied me with the parts as well. Thanks 7500.
I'm telling you, this has to be done to you MG!! Heck, the man who designed it did it... That's got to say something. Lol!
Amazing machine, and I can't stop running it!!!

7500RPM
10-11-2010, 06:47 AM
I did the conversion two days ago... By far the best thing I have done to this boat!!! It absolutly rocks with the rudder moved over. Handles just as good if not better than stock! I'm so glad I got told about this from a buddy of mine. Whom also supplied me with the parts as well. Thanks 7500.
I'm telling you, this has to be done to you MG!! Heck, the man who designed it did it... That's got to say something. Lol!
Amazing machine, and I can't stop running it!!!


What an awesome day yesterday! Thanks hobie.
Your boat is amazing faster on just that 4 cell 4200 mah 45c new Hyperion Pack! Ballastic! Need two for that boat! almost no need for 5 cell packs! Again awesome day!!:banana:


One other thing. Everybody should change the brass bushings in your struts to Octura lead teflon bearings as yesterday the brass one locked up on the flex cable! What a mess! hobie's did the same thing days prior, thanks to a fellow boater, he had a dremel tool to cut off the brass one off the cable and he had the Octura one's handy, just spread them slightly and install, They Fit perfectly!

Boomer
10-12-2010, 01:32 PM
Any word on when you will have the Octura spacers to do the Miss G off set rudder mod?
I'd like to order them along with some other items to save a little on the shipping costs.
Thank you
Boomer

Steven Vaccaro
10-12-2010, 08:00 PM
I hope to have some spacers tomorrow.

Boomer
10-12-2010, 10:45 PM
Thanks Steve
I 'll check stock in the AM.
Boomer

ron1950
10-12-2010, 11:17 PM
got mine today thanks steve just finished the conversion...dont forget to reverse that servo lol...was wondering where the strut should be now lol have to do some testing

onegreenray
10-12-2010, 11:59 PM
i think its worth it just to be able to grease the shaft without having to take the rudder apart every time.

Steven Vaccaro
10-13-2010, 08:29 PM
I got some today. I should have got 10, but I ended up with 9 and one of them was missing the screws. I have 40 more on order. I hope to have those Tuesday.
One thing. The screws are not 4-40's. I have to check the hardware store to see what they are.

jac4412
10-13-2010, 08:36 PM
dang.. I just got some nice 4 40s too...... guess I'll have to put up another 80 cents!

jac4412
10-13-2010, 08:37 PM
Steve are the screws bigger or smaller in diameter?

ron1950
10-13-2010, 09:39 PM
i used the screws that helt the rudder bracket in place...dont know what the size of em are...but worked well lol

Steven Vaccaro
10-13-2010, 10:06 PM
Steve are the screws bigger or smaller in diameter?

A tad larger. I tried 6-32 and those are to large. I will call octura to find out tomorrow.

hobie
10-14-2010, 07:51 AM
What an awesome day yesterday! Thanks hobie.
Your boat is amazing faster on just that 4 cell 4200 mah 45c new Hyperion Pack! Ballastic! Need two for that boat! almost no need for 5 cell packs! Again awesome day!!:banana:

Hey 7500! Yes, an awesome day! I wish I didn't have to leave!!
Are you going to make it out this weekend at all??

I thought I had taken care of out little otter problem last night.... He got in the way, and I'm out a prop and a shaft!!! Doh!!!! Be he is still swimming the little jerk!!! Lol!!

tman52804
10-14-2010, 11:35 AM
Guys,

Check out this sweet offset rudder mount I received from Kintec Racing. Many thanks to Jan, top notch job on this. I believe he is making a few refinements and they should be available soon.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m92/tman52804/PICT0169.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m92/tman52804/PICT0176.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m92/tman52804/PICT0175-1.jpg

Darin Jordan
10-14-2010, 11:41 AM
I like it!

tman52804
10-14-2010, 11:58 AM
Yes, I like that I can still use my nylon shear bolts, and it has rudder offset location options.
I believe he is going to elimate the offset holes that are not being used and add another set to allow the rudder to be offset closer to the transom to get further out of the prop wash.
One could aways modify the stock rudder bracket by adding addional holes as well.

scoota
10-16-2010, 03:00 AM
I found these 25mm threaded spacers in a electronics shop ,5 bucks for a pack of 8, they work really well to do the conversion ... Had to file a bit off the rudder arm to clear the swivel point for the rudder ....

scoota
10-16-2010, 03:02 AM
Here is the brand of those spacers....

onegreenray
10-16-2010, 06:39 AM
now couldn't you still put in a nylon screw in the bottom strut in case you hit a log or in my case a snapping turtle. i have one that is about 12 inches across in the pond i drive at.

ron1950
10-16-2010, 03:34 PM
ran this morning for first time after rudder conversion and guess what? NO bounce....642 prop batteries even with bulkhead at the flexshaft coupler.....man i love it now even more lol.....shot a bigger roster tail with rudder out of the way also.....

ray schrauwen
10-18-2010, 12:25 AM
I ran mine today with stock BJ motor power.

I made my own offset's so i could make the linkage a straight shot with no bends.

The boat is fast but, running in 6"+ chop & heavy winds made for least favorable driving conditions.

Not happy after 3 runs and one flip the hatch is toasted! :ThumbsDown01:

The cooling tube was moved before I ran it....

onegreenray
10-18-2010, 06:42 AM
i got mine done yesterday looking to take it out this afternoon if the wife lets me go to the pond... wedding planning is the best!

ray schrauwen
10-18-2010, 10:40 AM
I got some today. I should have got 10, but I ended up with 9 and one of them was missing the screws. I have 40 more on order. I hope to have those Tuesday.
One thing. The screws are not 4-40's. I have to check the hardware store to see what they are.

If Octura, most likely 5-40

Darin Jordan
10-18-2010, 10:49 AM
If Octura, most likely 5-40

5-40?? They actually MAKE that?? :huh:

tman52804
10-18-2010, 12:32 PM
Yes, believe it or not, they do make 5-40.

tman52804
10-18-2010, 12:32 PM
Darin,

Are you going to chime in over at the Miss G canopy thread?

Steven Vaccaro
10-18-2010, 12:55 PM
Ding, Ding, Ding. Give that man a twinkie! Its a 5-40. I'm putting an order in for some now.

bigpapa
10-18-2010, 01:42 PM
tks steven

ray schrauwen
10-18-2010, 01:43 PM
I figured out the 5-40 long ago when I had an octura turn fin with a bolt I could not find a nut for until I tried a .125 stub prop nut and it worked. Bastards!

Darin Jordan
10-18-2010, 03:45 PM
Darin,

Are you going to chime in over at the Miss G canopy thread?

No... :tiphat:

Hahahaha....

ron1950
10-18-2010, 08:53 PM
anyone know what size the origenal rudder bolts were? i used those and they seemed to hold right up in there....

btw.. what is the hull made of anyway? plastic or fiberglass? sure is light compared to the stiletto tugboat i have

Boomer
10-18-2010, 11:46 PM
Just and FYI, there are many forms and types of plastic, one of which is fiberglass, which is more correctly referred to as FRP or Fiber reinforced Plastic which falls into a category of plastics called thermosets. Does make much difference, just and FYI
Boomer

tacticalretreat
10-19-2010, 02:59 PM
wow, what a difference after the conversion! no more wawa...it doesn't seem to handle as well though in my opinion but that may be because i was able to carry more speed through the turns. either way it's the best 5 bucks I've ever spent lol

:thumbup1::thumbup1:

onegreenray
10-21-2010, 05:10 PM
i still have the wa waw wa but it is not bouncing as much. either way i agree best five bucks..

Boomer
10-21-2010, 05:25 PM
Ok, there has to be something you guys are doing differently. How about each of you gents taking some pictures of your set ups that show us the battery locations, shaft angle, prop type, battery types etc.:thumbup1:

I just got the Octura spacers and will be running some test in a week or so. I'd appreciate you and others who have resolved the high end porpoise rutine sharing pictures of their set ups too.

I know it can be done, I have seen several videos of MGs running in the high 40s or better with no bounce.

Thanks guys
Boomer

hobie
10-23-2010, 08:33 PM
Ok, there has to be something you guys are doing differently. How about each of you gents taking some pictures of your set ups that show us the battery locations, shaft angle, prop type, battery types etc.:thumbup1:

Thanks guys
Boomer

Boomer,
I still have a very tiny amount, but it all depends on the conditions. It's pratically gone for me on 4s. When I run 5s, only the prop is in the water, so there is none.
I found with a smaller prop, 42mm and such, it bounces. I'm running a x447, run super smooth.
My batteries on 4s I have two of the 5200 40c carbons from team orion. When I run 5s, I'm running 2 5s in parallel, for a total of 6600 Mah. They are Hyperion 5s 3300 Mah 35c batteries. Totally rocks with that setup. I'm close 47mph with the Hyperions.
38 with 4s setup.
I always have the boat balanced out, 9" from the transom. Sometimes to make it fly nice I have it a bit tail heavy
hope this helps

Boomer
10-23-2010, 10:12 PM
Steve
Got them, thanks you!!

Hobie
It all helps. Thank you

ron1950
10-24-2010, 09:13 PM
i see kintecracing.com is selling that offset rudder bracket now.....
http://www.kintecracing.com/Miss_Geico_Upgrades.html

stringfly
10-26-2010, 09:53 AM
My friend and I broke down and have just done the Kintec off set rudder mod, went right on with no issues. We plan to run both tomorrow and see how they do. Will let you know.

Stringfly <>++++

stringfly
10-28-2010, 09:52 AM
Ran both Geicos yesteday with off set rudder mod. Both ran with NO BOUNCING WA WA. Rough and windy at first but water finally got smoother. No bouncing, wa wa in rough or smooth water. Both just running 4s 5000 packs. Packs were 1/2 inch past rear of stock battery trays. Im running X642 and other I believe was a X640.

Stringfly <>+++++

POWERS
10-28-2010, 11:18 AM
How do u reverse the servo for the steering?

airman66285
10-28-2010, 12:16 PM
How do u reverse the servo for the steering?

Just reverse the steering switch on your transmitter. That worked for me.

stringfly
10-28-2010, 03:02 PM
Yep... just hit the reverse switch on trans..

Stringfly <>++++

tunnelvision
11-10-2010, 12:01 PM
Can't wait, just picked up a Geico which should arrive tomorrow!! I ordered the kintec offset bracket which looks like it stops the porpoise.

Have a question for some owners though. I see that some have moved the packs back which helps. Have people tried raising the strut in order to air it out more? I am thinking this might also help with the problem. I would think the prop shaft would have to be slightly above the last step. Porpoising in tunnels or cats is a problem with weight distribution and/ or a lack of airing out the boat and letting it fly. Have a Octura X642 and V940 cleaver on the way. I am hoping the V940 is a winner, I think it just might give it the transom lift it needs. Any thoughts?
Thanks.

blackcat26
11-10-2010, 02:15 PM
I will say this. Be careful with the v940. That is alot of pitch and might smoke the factory esc. The x642 on the other hand will work well. No worries.

tunnelvision
11-10-2010, 04:29 PM
I will say this. Be careful with the v940. That is alot of pitch and might smoke the factory esc. The x642 on the other hand will work well. No worries.

Thanks for the reply. Was wondering about the pitch on v940, it is an aggressive prop. If it runs well and smokes the esc, I will just put in my 120 seaking. Do not want to have to do that though. I think I'll start with the x642 and save the v940 for when I upgrade the esc down the road. Do you think the motor can handle the v940?

Darin Jordan
11-10-2010, 04:58 PM
In my experience, the V-Series props are rigger-only props...

But... it might work... let us know...

tunnelvision
11-10-2010, 05:20 PM
Thats what I gathered but figured it's worth a shot. I probably shouldn't be applying my boat experiences to rc's but can't help it. I'm a newbie and still learning.

Should get the prop next week along with my gps, will report back no doubt.

On a side note, Thanks Darin for designing this boat! When I heard it was coming out I knew it would be just a matter of time before I got my hands on one!:rockon2:

tiqueman
11-17-2010, 09:01 AM
I cant get the bounce outta mine. Offset w/ the Octura parts... batts from as far forward to as far back.. strut adjustments at about every place I could get it... always bounces. I have to say the bounce has nothing at all to do w/ the inline rudder. It has to do w/ balances, the way your prop is tuned etc.

However.. turning it now... :thumbup1: it holds all its speed.

Rumdog
11-17-2010, 09:06 AM
Did you move the rudder closer to the transom when offseting it?

tiqueman
11-17-2010, 09:26 AM
Check! As you can see I ended w/ the strut way up. With the stock set up, it seemed best w/ the top of the strut level w/ the top of the bracket. Still bounced, but not bad. Once offset it bounced more in that position.

stringfly
11-17-2010, 09:41 AM
Our struts are not up that high. Just about 1/8" showing on top of bracket. This puts the centerline of the prop in line with bottom of ride pads.

Stringfly <>++++

Darin Jordan
11-17-2010, 10:19 AM
Guys... be careful just using the amount of strut sticking up the top of the strut bracket for your measurements... The first batch of boats that went out, had the strut brackets mounted too low on the transom (compared to where I had specified they go and where the strut was designed to be), which is why there is a minimum amount of prop clearance. This is suppose to have been adjusted on future batches of boats. Not sure when that show up in the production line, however.

It's always best to measure from a setup board to the centerline or bottom of the strut itself.

tiqueman
11-17-2010, 11:26 AM
Our struts are not up that high. Just about 1/8" showing on top of bracket. This puts the centerline of the prop in line with bottom of ride pads.

Stringfly <>++++

As I said, I went form as low as possible w/ different angles neg to pos to as high as possible.. thats just where I stopped. I started w/ it w/ the centerline of the strut w/ the ride pads as you suggest and the strut angle neutral while on a table top.

tiqueman
11-18-2010, 12:18 PM
More testing today and feel like Im getting somewhere. I started w/ the strut neutral and about 1/2 below the bottom of the hull. Batteries were half inch off the back of the trays. Bounce bounce bonce. I left the batteries alone for all of the adjustment. I angled the strut down slightly, then up slightly.. bounce bounce bounce. I tried lowering the strut. And again went thru 2 different up angles and 2 different down, including neutral.. bounce bounce bounce. I then started slowly adjusting it higher and higher, again using all angles and it slooooowly began showing improvement. It seemed a slight positive and higher depth is what it wanted. I moved it up to clear by thousandths of the bracket and had the best run yet. However after bringing it in, she slipped a tad and the prop contacted the bracket just slightly. I re-set it, tweaked the prop and then I tried messing w/ the rudder angle. I tucked it forward, it seems to have brought the bow down in the straights, BUT, the bounce was almost gone. I pulled it back out just a bit and runing w/ the wind in about a 1/4" to 1/2" chop, light breeze, no bounce at all. Running into the wind she bounces minimally. My strut is angle slightly up and as high as it can go before the prop (642) contacts the strut bracket. Darin had mentioned that some of the struts were mounted at the bottom and caused issues w/ prop clearance. I feel I need to go a smidgen higher, but, My strut is one that is mounted at the bottom of the transom. Im going to remove part of the tail of the bracket to see if I can get enough clearance and if it is in fact my resolution before I go removing the bracket and drilling new holes in my pretty boat. I actually feel like Im getting somewhere.

Most importantly as Darin said, the strut brackets on these boats apperently arent all mounted in the same location. I feel its important in the "helping of others" that we get back to refering to the strut angle as compared to the bottom of the boat while sitting on a flat surface and not the "top of the strut" like we somehow got into on this.

Darin, thanks for your help in this set up. I was told by a reputable racer about pulling the rudder out.... DEFINITLEY not the thing to do. Since it was cornering wonderfully to begin with, I never thought to try tucking it in.... Thanks! :hug1:

shotimes95
11-24-2010, 03:06 PM
I installed the kintec bracket today and looked at some of the pictures from others postings. Some rudders are in the rear location and some in the front location. What is the proper location?

dano1
12-12-2010, 11:01 AM
Correct me if im wrong but if the rudder is positioned further away from the transom as in the stock location on the m/g, isn't this why the boat handles so well on turning? I would think moving the rudder closer in that it would have some inpact on handling???

dano1
12-13-2010, 07:17 PM
well i got my rudder bracket today and all went well on the installation.......i thought! I powered the radio up and had some binding on the right turn to the steering rod that was corrected by shimming the tie rod end, all looked good so off to the water shed i went............apon arival i noted some ice along the edges and found a spot to launch m/g............tapped the throttle and turned left but miss G went right.........right back into the ice off shore and got stuck, all i could do was laugh at myself for being (over excited) and not checking turning after i flipped the rudder arm to other side during installation, lucky for me no harm was done to rudder or my new bracket set up. Will double check my settings from now on. Guess thats what i get for leaving work early but a bad day of testing is better than a good day at work ...

MR TITANIC DANO

kjohnsiii
12-13-2010, 08:05 PM
Dano, what bracket did you use?

dano1
12-14-2010, 08:40 PM
Went with second version rudder relocate kit from kintec racing, the guys here told me about the prop wash issue that makes the boat bounce and how to correct it, its a nice kit for the money and i havent gotten to run my m/g today to really tune it in, they also told me to buy the break away screws just as a precaution measure. Im getting ready to install a higher rpm motor soon and have a octura x642 balanced prop on the way.......these guys wont steer ya wrong....im lucky to have found this site, i think half these guys here have gills!!!!

Dano

kjohnsiii
12-14-2010, 09:23 PM
You craced me up with the gills comment. Your right though there are some good guys here. I got the same kintec su too. Have not run it yet, have only ran mine with the stock rudder and got her gps'ed at 37 with 4s. Broke 2 flex cables though. I called horizon today and they are shipping me 2 out. I was shocked!

Boomer
12-15-2010, 02:46 AM
kjohnsiii
You said you are running your MG on 4s? What ESC are you running? These boats are wired in series, which doubles the voltage your boats systems are seeing.

I tried my MG on 3s, and toasted the stock 45 amp ESC. The boat ran like a rabbit on steroids before it went up in smoke.

I was fortunate that the damage was limited to the ESC, but it took a lot of work to get the smell out of the boat, and to clean up all the smoke that stuck to the inside of the hull. I have since installed a 120 AMP ESC.
Please be carefull.
Boomer

kjohnsiii
12-15-2010, 07:55 AM
Thanks boomer for the safety tip. I have a 200 amper coming for now. So it's all good now.

tiqueman
12-15-2010, 08:02 AM
Boomer, for clarification, saying 4S is correct. You ran yours on 6S, not 3S to blow it up. 3S it would do 20mph. 4S is what these run on.... doesnt matter how you get it there, as long as the end result is 14.8 volts (4S). I run 2, 4S packs in mine... 4S2P for racing. I run 1P for sport running and testing.

more clarification.... high voltage boats often use several packs of bateries.. lets say for an extreme example its running 12S... in theory you could use 6, 2S packs in series. Doesnt mean its a 2S boat and would not be called a 2S boat... its a 12S boat. Hope that helped.

tiqueman
12-15-2010, 08:08 AM
Thanks boomer for the safety tip. I have a 200 amper coming for now. So it's all good now.

kjohn, if your keeping it stock, theres really no reason for that large an esc. If you plan on running 5 and 6S, then yes, its a good idea or if your going to try to swing a larger prop than say a 42mm.

Also, get away from the Horizon Proboat flex shafts. They are junk and you will continue to break them and have problems. I got 4 runs out of mine before it starting showing failure. OSE sells a great aftermarket shaft that will last, if well taken care of, years and years of running.

kjohnsiii
12-15-2010, 08:15 AM
Thanks for the info. I did order a shaft from the ose store should get here thiks week,

tiqueman
12-15-2010, 08:16 AM
Thanks for the info. I did order a shaft from the ose store should get here thiks week,

:thumbup:

Darin Jordan
12-15-2010, 08:20 AM
Also, get away from the Horizon Proboat flex shafts. They are junk and you will continue to break them and have problems. I got 4 runs out of mine before it starting showing failure. OSE sells a great aftermarket shaft that will last, if well taken care of, years and years of running.

That's interesting... I'm still on my first one, and I'm pretty sure I've run this thing harder than any of the rest of you to this point... I run mine to TRY to break things... It's kind of what they (ProBoat) expect me to do.

If you still have the "failing" or "failed" shaft, why don't you package it up and send it to me so I can analyze it and see what the problem might be? Then I can feedback the info to ProBoat and perhaps improve upon something. Contact me through PM if you'd like to do this.

Properly cared for, however, there is no reason why the factory shaft shouldn't have a normal lifespan....

tiqueman
12-15-2010, 08:31 AM
That's interesting... I'm still on my first one, and I'm pretty sure I've run this thing harder than any of the rest of you to this point... I run mine to TRY to break things... It's kind of what they (ProBoat) expect me to do.

If you still have the "failing" or "failed" shaft, why don't you package it up and send it to me so I can analyze it and see what the problem might be? Then I can feedback the info to ProBoat and perhaps improve upon something. Contact me through PM if you'd like to do this.

Properly cared for, however, there is no reason why the factory shaft shouldn't have a normal lifespan....

I tossed it Darin. I tried heating it afterwards to salvage the stub shaft but had no luck, so I threw it all away. Ive heard from a few people the same scenarios. As for maintaining, I use grim grease (tip to tail) and a few drop of 3n1 oil along w/ the grease on the stub shaft. I also had the sieze problem w/ the factory strut bushings. This could have been what did the damage to my shaft. It did not break but there was only about 25% of it hanging on about 3/4" up from the stub. Fortunatley though it did not seize hard and came apart easily. Ives since gone to different strut bushings and Octura flex and stub shafts. I now have several runs, several hard runs, and no isuues.

On a side note as you think most of us dont know what we are doing when we break stuff (not saying that as sarcasm, just saying it) Ive been running boats since 1991, so I know how to properly care for a shaft.

kjohnsiii
12-15-2010, 09:03 AM
Thanks Darin, I might have one of the shafts I can have you put under the micro scope. This could be interesting to see what happened to it. I don't want to go to the post office this time of year though... We could meet at star bucks? I am off today.

7500RPM
12-15-2010, 10:17 AM
That's interesting... I'm still on my first one, and I'm pretty sure I've run this thing harder than any of the rest of you to this point... I run mine to TRY to break things... It's kind of what they (ProBoat) expect me to do.

If you still have the "failing" or "failed" shaft, why don't you package it up and send it to me so I can analyze it and see what the problem might be? Then I can feedback the info to ProBoat and perhaps improve upon something. Contact me through PM if you'd like to do this.

Properly cared for, however, there is no reason why the factory shaft shouldn't have a normal lifespan....

The problem with the Proboat shaft assembly is that the Prop Shaft is NOT counter drilled deep enough for enough cable to be inserted and properly bonded to the shaft.
When the cable problems first came to light I had the correct lay of cable, and when I removed the original cable on inspection the prop shaft IS NOT DRILLED DEEP ENOUGH.
The Octura prop shafts are. I used the Octura shaft and NO Problems.

kjohnsiii
12-15-2010, 11:08 AM
Is this the one available in the ose store?

Boomer
12-15-2010, 11:36 AM
Tiqueman
Thanks for the clarification. I ment to say by running the pair of 3s and in series, which made really made I was running it on 6s (cell) which made the boat go like a rocket just before it went CA BLEWIE! So, I was concerned if he was running a pair of 4s he'd be going to smoke the ESC. Before a got the the 3s, I was running a pair of 2s which gave the boat good speed, but nothing, I repeat nothing like the pair of 3s, or 6s as it turned out.

It would have be nice to know how fast it really went before I killed ESC!!The difference was amazing!

Is there a simple formula or way to calculate this stuff? I'd would rather not smoke any more ESCs. I would like to understand how to match battery outputs, to the Amp rating of the ESC, and both to the KV of the motor.

When my stock motors go south on my MG, EKOS and Genesis, I want to repower them with higher performance motors. My goals would be to have them running in the mid forties to perhaps, fifty mph, and to match components so I don't end up just creating small bombs that are just waiting to go off.:eek:

I have 2s, 3s and 4s 5000mha 30 and 40c batteries and some new 120A ESCs to play with. As you know two of these boats are single motors, and the EKOS has dual motors with 60amp ESC (1 for each motor). I would anticipate upgrading the ESC in the EKOS to at least 120A, but again, that will depend on the motors I go with. The Genesis came with a 125a ESC so, I have a little room there. I see the guys going with 180 and 240a ESC, but that is when you start spending the big dollars.

I have read so many threads with guys talking about the motors they upgrade to, but am not sure how they select them. Once you get that doped out then you have to figure out which props to use.:doh:

This is really interesting, but it is hard to find this kind of information clearly stated.
It seems like a trial and error thing for the most part. Any tips are appreciated.

Thank you
Boomer

tiqueman
12-15-2010, 12:51 PM
Tiqueman
Thanks for the clarification. I ment to say by running the pair of 3s and in series, which made really made I was running it on 6s (cell) which made the boat go like a rocket just before it went CA BLEWIE! So, I was concerned if he was running a pair of 4s he'd be going to smoke the ESC. Before a got the the 3s, I was running a pair of 2s which gave the boat good speed, but nothing, I repeat nothing like the pair of 3s, or 6s as it turned out.

It would have be nice to know how fast it really went before I killed ESC!!The difference was amazing!

Is there a simple formula or way to calculate this stuff? I'd would rather not smoke any more ESCs. I would like to understand how to match battery outputs, to the Amp rating of the ESC, and both to the KV of the motor.

When my stock motors go south on my MG, EKOS and Genesis, I want to repower them with higher performance motors. My goals would be to have them running in the mid forties to perhaps, fifty mph, and to match components so I don't end up just creating small bombs that are just waiting to go off.:eek:

I have 2s, 3s and 4s 5000mha 30 and 40c batteries and some new 120A ESCs to play with. As you know two of these boats are single motors, and the EKOS has dual motors with 60amp ESC (1 for each motor). I would anticipate upgrading the ESC in the EKOS to at least 120A, but again, that will depend on the motors I go with. The Genesis came with a 125a ESC so, I have a little room there. I see the guys going with 180 and 240a ESC, but that is when you start spending the big dollars.

I have read so many threads with guys talking about the motors they upgrade to, but am not sure how they select them. Once you get that doped out then you have to figure out which props to use.:doh:

This is really interesting, but it is hard to find this kind of information clearly stated.
It seems like a trial and error thing for the most part. Any tips are appreciated.

Thank you
Boomer

Boomer, one of the biggest tools a lot of people use is FeCalc. If you have not downloaded it yet, do so, as it will help you tremendously. As for motors and options it does not have, you can usually find something close to get you in the ball park. It has motor selection, esc selections and prop selections to give you a rough estimate starting point.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=15117&highlight=fecalc

EDIT: Also Boomer, pick yourself up an eagle tree data logger if you havent one already. Its a fantastic tool and keeps the guessing out of already built set ups, and new set ups as a double check to see if you end up where you thought you would.

dano1
12-17-2010, 09:02 PM
I was one of the few that got the correct prop shaft from the start and i requested the replacement they offered for free not relising that mine was turned in the correct rotations, i check it after every 4 runs to make sure all is well, no problems here with it but i use engine assembly lube on my shaft and havent seen any signs of friction wear, pretty much wipes clean with a towel, im kinda wondering the same as darin whats going on there with the breakage and whats the cause. Now assembly lube may not be the correct stuff to run on this shaft but it seems to do a good job for mine

dano