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hobie
10-03-2010, 10:09 AM
Hello all...
Well, can anyone tell me how to get the burning smell out if my hull?? I am NOT impressed with the electronics in this boat!!!!! Yesterday, I was running on 4s when it just stopped working. I got my buddy to loan me his bj esc, and on 4s in about 3 min, the boat was on fire!!!!! Smoke eveywhere. I must say it did look cool, if only I was having a bond fire!!!! After getting it back, I noticed the esc had popped, blew up! Now we both don't have boats to run.
I have taken everything out. Esc is dead, fancy digital servo is wonky, and I'm not sure if anything else will work. I did have the BEC removed, had run it on 5s a couple of times. But I was trying out some new 5200 7.4 team Orion lipo's, so I wasn't even loading up the esc. It took 5s the day before with not even a temp of over 83???

My question, to a seasoned person at proboat.... Andy or Darrin, is this normal, and is this a warranty thing? Or am I out a speed control?
I emailed Proboat last week to ask about a crack in the hull. They said to bad, should have looked at it beore you took it out of the box.
I am not looking forward to thier response.

Guess I get to run ol faithful.... The good old P1. :(

dana
10-03-2010, 10:30 AM
what a disaster

Diegoboy
10-03-2010, 10:31 AM
What did the flex cable look like?

hobie
10-03-2010, 11:07 AM
What did the flex cable look like?

OMG!!! I can't stop rolling around on the floor!!
Funny you should ask, it's the replacement one from PB last week.

I will post a pic a soon as I get home. I forgot I took one when it happened.

Rumdog
10-03-2010, 11:28 AM
What prop?

Darin Jordan
10-03-2010, 12:29 PM
Sorry to hear you are having issues. You'll have to work with the Horizon customer service department to figure out what they might be able to help you with. I have no idea how that end of things works.

However, and this is just my opinion, if you had TWO ESCs fail in the same boat, then it points to something OTHER than the electronics being an issue. Could be a driveline issue, could have something to do with removing the BEC cicuit, could have something to do with running a 4S ESC on 5S... ProBoat ESCs just don't typically go up in flames... In fact, it's rare that they stop working without REALLY over loading them.

Might be too late to find out now, but was the driveline TRUELY free? When you put in the new shaft, did it go cleanly and without ANY binding go into the coupler, indicating good motor alignment? Did the stub fit into the strut without any binding?

Again, it would be EXTREMELY rare to have TWO ESCs fail in a row, without something else being the culprit. Not impossible, but it's certainly not something one hears about with these ESCs...

hobie
10-03-2010, 12:49 PM
I was running 447 prop. Motor was temping at 75, same as the esc. All nice and cool. Or at least I think. Never had it hit over a 100.

Darin, yes, the new shaft went in with no problems, free and clear, the only thing was it was a tad long, and to solve that, I just moved the motor back. But it was running so sweet and very cool with the setup I had. Seemed very odd the first one would stop and be very cold to the touch. The second one just blew up, I heard the pop from the shore.
But that's the first thing I looked at, and motor was ice cold. Shaft still spins freely

hobie
10-03-2010, 01:23 PM
What did the flex cable look like?

I thought you were joking about the flex cable thing!! Sounded like it cause of all the troubles people have had! Lol!

It's fine, just greased it yesterday before the mess happened.

Inside is clean for the most part now, I sanded everything down and put a new layer of clear coat over it all. Smell is still there, I'm assuming it's up where I can't get at.
I will get a new esc from here, and try again. I'm thinking 120 amp minimum?? Don't want any issues down the road. A decent one should be able to handle all the new packs I got for 5s setup. Will keep posting my results.

Rumdog
10-03-2010, 02:40 PM
If you ran the x447 on 5s, you seriously over amped that esc.

hobie
10-03-2010, 03:51 PM
How come the esc was only 85-90 degrees?

ray schrauwen
10-03-2010, 04:04 PM
How long did it take you to retrieve the boat? Doesn't take long to cool off ...

In future try to use Eagle One tire & rim cleaner, rinse out with hot water in shower, no mess, no smell !!

hobie
10-03-2010, 04:52 PM
Didn't take long, it was only 15 feet from the shore when it popped. By the time I turned around to put the rescue craft in the water, I could reach it with my oar.
The one that caught fire was got for 10 min or so, the previous one was cold, 73 by the time I got it. But the motor was warmer. 90 maybe. Tried another little motor, made the motor smoke. Hooked it back up to factory one... Moved it, but was making a banging sound, and would only spin for a second and then stop. Hooked up a new esc to factory motor, all was good. Or so I though.
I'm going to start changing all my speed controls out to at least 120 amp or greater. These 40's and 60's are for the little toy boats from what I'm learning.

ron1950
10-03-2010, 05:16 PM
where is that promaced pic? i have seen a few cars on fire but never a boat!!!!!

Rumdog
10-03-2010, 05:20 PM
What? Now you've been running different motors? I give up. It's making my head spin.

hobie
10-03-2010, 05:21 PM
Sorry, almost home.
Fire was out when I took the pic. Surprised to are there wasn't more burnt area

hobie
10-03-2010, 05:45 PM
What? Now you've been running different motors? I give up. It's making my head spin.

No no, everything was stock.

Those are the things I want to try. Also just want to keep away from the low amp esc's that's all.

Fluid
10-03-2010, 05:58 PM
This idea that an ESC has to get smoking hot before it blows is just flat wrong. If the ESC has been abused in the past - over-amped, hooked up with reverse polarity, run without being hooked up to the motor or with one phase not connected - it can blow at any time. Did both ESCs spark when you connected them to the packs? If not, it is no wonder they blew. Don't run an ESC that doesn't spark, you'll eventually be sorry. It doesn't matter what the amp rating is, without caps you'll lose the ESC. On, and a bad motor will kill an ESC quickly too.




* If the caps are still charged from being connected to the packs but not run, then they may not spark on the next connection.

.

hobie
10-05-2010, 12:26 AM
Here's the pic of before, (doesn't look that bad) and an after shot once i cleaned it up a bit.
I'm going to try the Velineon system in it, start with a 7.4 volt battery, with a 440 to see what that does.
Will post my results.

Fluid
10-05-2010, 07:37 AM
2S is not much power for that large 30" boat, you will not be happy with the speed. The amp draw will be high if you try to approach the speeds of the 4S boat, and the motor Kv is too high to go with 3S (if the ESC would handle it). Do yourself a favor and don't try to reinvent the wheel here. Use a proven 4S setup.


.

hobie
10-05-2010, 07:53 AM
2S is not much power for that large 30" boat, you will not be happy with the speed. The amp draw will be high if you try to approach the speeds of the 4S boat, and the motor Kv is too high to go with 3S (if the ESC would handle it). Do yourself a favor and don't try to reinvent the wheel here. Use a proven 4S setup.


.

Ok, that does make sense a little. And yes, I'm new at this. (the whole reason for the post...) But.... Wouldn't it make no difference if you achive the same rpm with less voltage? How would 7.4 volts, or even 11.1 for that matter, draw less amperage than 14.8, or even 18.5?
This electronics crap is confusing. Isn't that what directly relates to speed?? RPM? the more rpm the faster you go?
I would like to know... If you can tell me, if I get (and I'm just throwing numbers out there) 30000 rpm from 6s and a 1500kv motor, or I use half the voltage, and twice the kv motor to achive the same thing. Wait.... Would that make it twice as hard for the 3s to get that rpm, or more draw, rather than a 6s.
Would that be the same as a big truck pulling a load up a hill, and then trying to the same with a small car??? Am I even close?? Lol!

Darin Jordan
10-05-2010, 09:05 AM
Hobie,

Before you go burn up more equipment, start here and understand what you are doing:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm


http://www.sengpielaudio.com/FormulaWheelElectronics.gif


The formula you want to focus on is: P = V * I

Power = Voltage * Current

To achieve a certain amount of power, if you increase he Voltage, you decrease the current, and vice-versa.

So, when you drop the voltage to 2S, you double the current required to make the same amount of power.

You would be money ahead to put a proven system in there and stick with it until you are up to speed on RC Boating. The stock setup in this boat is capable of mid-40's and will do that for the entire safe discharge of the packs. In fact, I'm certain that, with a couple of tweaks, approaching 50 with the stock setup is possible in race trim (shorter runtimes, of course).

hobie
10-05-2010, 09:59 AM
Thanks Darin! Great info. The electrical details so to speak is what I don't know much about. Been doing cars and planes for years, never burned anything. But I'm finding that water is a whole different ball game!
Ok, I will pull the Velineon system out. I will wait till customer service sends me a new one. I emailed them on sat saying the motor wouldn't work, they said they would send me a new one. But found out it wasn't, replied that it's the ESC, not the motor. Awaiting their email, but I'm sure they will send me a new one.

Again, thanks for all your help and info. I will try that offset rudder conversion to achieve my extra speed, not the voltage.

Darin Jordan
10-05-2010, 10:36 AM
Again, thanks for all your help and info. I will try that offset rudder conversion to achieve my extra speed, not the voltage.

If you pay attention to what other guys are trying for props as well, you'll get yourself there.

One thing to keep in mind too... many car motors are only 2-pole or 4-pole setups... both of which can work in boats. However, they don't have as much raw torque as these 6-pole RTR motors, so you have to usually prop down to use them, and you can't swap them directly KV for KV...

Have fun!