vvvIIvvv's HPR115

[westbeach]

Liam, I started this thread so as not to muddy up Randy's Hpr115 thread build.

You're running Neu 1521-1Y on 6S 5000Mah. The KV of the motor and the 6s should bring you to around 35,000 rpm/kv. I can't see why you can't get on plane. Have you played with the setting on the esc? Check your driveshaft, make sure there is no binding.

[vvviivvv]

Thanks for the thread... i set the esc's up as i was told to... the programming is in german... i might run it on Thursday and video it so people get a idea... i will try how it is currently set up them move the weight way forward...

any 1 with a idea is appreciated.

[Gerwin Brommer]

Few good pics of the interior, , side-back-view, and back of the boat, might help ?

[vvviivvv]

here's how its set up... how far the drive is down etc... and btw is this the correct rotation of flex shaft for a prop spinning this way?

[vvviivvv]

hah ^ 10 seconds sooner -.-

[Gerwin Brommer]

Rotation/prop is okay.
Second pic : no space between drivedog-white washer, and the drive ??????
4th pic : is that grease at the bearing, or has the alu tube widened ??

[vvviivvv]

no space there... :confused:

grease on 4th pic

[Gerwin Brommer]

Please leave some space between de drive and the drivedog !
When running the boat, the flex will "shrink" under load.
So they will pull the drivedog towards the motor = drivedog will rub against the drive =massive friction !!!!

Where is the COG in your boat, measured from the transoms ?

[vvviivvv]

cg umm it doesn't have one. i just guessed it as i never understood it...

[Gerwin Brommer]

center of gravity.
Is the point where the boat is in balance.
With the lipos in the normal place, determine the balancepoint.
Put the boat on a table, let the back go over the edge of the table.
At the point where the boat starts to slide off the table : that's your cog.
Is that point somewhere in the 33-37 centimeter range, measured from the transoms ???

[RandyatBBY]

Try pushing the struts all the way up up. Instead of all the way down and making the boat run wet and harder to launch.

[vvviivvv]

its right in the middle actually gerwin... 35cm from transom


randy, the boat creates a massive bow wave it needs pushing over the top if you get me... will lifting the drives achieve this?

and gerwin now i completely understand how to measure cg..

[vvviivvv]

i have a 1 - 2mm gap between now gerwin in the shaft...

[Gerwin Brommer]

1mm is enough.
I just saw the other topic where I saw what props you are using...................
1.8 pitch !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????
The hpr06 is a catamaran, NOT a purposebuild SAW-rigger !!
please look for props like octura X4.. series !

[Flying Scotsman]

If I was in your shoes I would change out the motors for a lower Kv and run 8S

Douggie

[vvviivvv]

Don't have that cash and my current set... Everyone assured me I would hit 60 with them (easy)

New setup is gonna be £1500+ total any gerwin the 1.8 pitch where used when all other props failed, it only drew 60 amps tops with them

Started with 442 then 447 then 45/1.8

And Christ I can't afford annother set of props...

[Flying Scotsman]

I understand the cash point of view, but that is a very hot setup you have presently. How about just changing the motors only?

Douggie

[vvviivvv]

To a lower kv?

How do you mean a 'hot' set up... When I ran it without cooling for 3 mins without planing going flat out at points trying to get it to plane my gps logged 60 amps with the 1.8 3 blades temps on esc 28degres motors about same..

Will run tomorrow night and report back.. Where's my hatchtape?!?! Might need it if i get over the plane

[Flying Scotsman]

The rpm rating on your present system is high with 6S power and is in the SAW range, a lower Kv large motor with higher voltage input power is the way to go on large hulls IMO.

Douggie

[Flying Scotsman]

Another question are you supplying 6S power to each motor or only 3S as your amp and temp figures do not make sense.

Douggie

[vvviivvv]

6s per motor... i prettty much sore what people where successfully using in Europe lehner 1950/7 on 6s... thats a 1791kv motor on 6s... im on under 1600

[Flying Scotsman]

Edit, you are still too high on rpm with that motor, it may be a touch too small

Douggie

[vvviivvv]

so are these lehner 1950 similar sizes to a 1527?

and wont have a chance to run it till friday... school work

[elvish]

I have the neu 1521 1.5D on 6s, and x447 and i have no trouble at all.
it may be your batteries, I had problems with acceleration until I figured out it was the lipos who were cutting off.

[vvviivvv]

this is the thing... you have 300 rpm/volt than me and people are telling me my rpm is too high??

i should of not listened to the people telling me to buy a 1y and bought the 1.5d like i planned on


also:

Twin Neu 1515 1Y 2200kv Motors
Hobbywing 180amp X2
Hyperion G3 35c 5s 5500mah

[RandyatBBY]

One thing if the boat is not getting on plane moving the CG foward will make it worse. So move the CG back,
Two make sure the RPM are winding out IE batteries are charged and radio is at full 125%
three Raise the struts to the top.
Four make sure the rudder is not turned.
Hope this will help,

[6S HYDRO]

Why do you only have 2 3s packs on the left side of the boat, i suspect this is your problem, you need twice the batteries

[vvviivvv]

Why do you only have 2 3s packs on the left side of the boat, i suspect this is your problem, you need twice the batteries

others where on charge at the time... its just a idea of where the battery's where positioned

[elvish]

my problem was my hyperion batteries....
i tried cheap flightmax from hk, and i have no problems

my first test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIq7mOUKb94
on a small lake in paris
not pushed more than 50% of the gas.
and my flex lets go because i had forgoten to tighten it.

[vvviivvv]

One thing if the boat is not getting on plane moving the CG foward will make it worse. So move the CG back,
Two make sure the RPM are winding out IE batteries are charged and radio is at full 125%
three Raise the struts to the top.
Four make sure the rudder is not turned.
Hope this will help,

to be honest i think the cg is too far back... or should my boat be powerful enough even with cg far back to work?

i spoke to manuel and he told me to drop the struts 2mm below flush with the bottom of the boat... but for the sake of undoing a 3mm allon key ill experiment with both


the batterys are 35c/60c or something turnigys...

[6S HYDRO]

Your sure they are in series then paralleled

[6S HYDRO]

Sounds like your running only 3s

[video200]

To a lower kv?

How do you mean a 'hot' set up... When I ran it without cooling for 3 mins without planing going flat out at points trying to get it to plane my gps logged 60 amps with the 1.8 3 blades temps on esc 28degres motors about same..

Will run tomorrow night and report back.. Where's my hatchtape?!?! Might need it if i get over the plane

just a little obervation.
if your boat is not on plane and you flat out, your props are cavetating and you dont have much resistanse on the motors witch again dont give you much amp draw.

[6S HYDRO]

Post up a pik on how you have the batteries wired up, i believe you have it wrong-3s2p per side

[vvviivvv]

My speed controllers don't power up unless 4s+ is connected, im pretty sure i have them in series but will get a pic now...

[vvviivvv]

just a little obervation.
if your boat is not on plane and you flat out, your props are cavetating and you dont have much resistanse on the motors witch again dont give you much amp draw.

so if its cavetating.... what do i do? i think when i first ran it, with 442's this was a problem can't quite remember now...

[video200]

only times i had problems with cavitation is when the props are not sharp.

[elvish]

i think his motors arent getting their proper kv's. Its not possible the motor is reaching 35.000k and the boat isnt able to plane with the props he is using.
maybe your need to setup your esc. Some timing?

[westbeach]

I believe 6SHydro is right about the packs wired up wrong. Liam take a pic of your Y-Harness that is used to join both your 3S packs into a 6S. You are running a hot setup at 35,000kv/rpm and you cannot get on plane, is mind boggling indeed. :glare:

This is what your harness should look like. http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-yharness&cat=136


Post up a pik on how you have the batteries wired up, i believe you have it wrong-3s2p per side

[BakedMopar]

Check post #35 looks to be okay to me. In a twin those motors are not too hot. I'm with Randy. Your COG should be at 27-30% of your hull lenght. Measure from the back of your sponson to the front and calculate from there.

[vvviivvv]

only times i had problems with cavitation is when the props are not sharp.

the props where supposedly balanced / sharpened / polished before i got them... there deffo not raw but how well done they are is...??

the esc... i will post what a screen shot of the settings later, i dont have time now before school its a 1/2 day so wont be too long

[vvviivvv]

It's going for sale if its not running by next weekend...

everything batterys data logger gps keeping my remote for my challanger and raker if i ever want to use it...

[Gerwin Brommer]

If you ever find some extra money, ship the boat to me, and i'll check it for you.
All your hardware/motors/escs/lipo's are good quality, so this baby MUST be able to become a
fast boat.
I bet it's only a little thing that went wrong ( esc settings / c.o.g/ or something like that )

btw : what did you use to secure the flexcables in the propshafts ?

[johnf]

I wouldn't sell it. You will lose a lot on what is probably an easy fix.

[vvviivvv]

If you ever find some extra money, ship the boat to me, and i'll check it for you.
All your hardware/motors/escs/lipo's are good quality, so this baby MUST be able to become a
fast boat.
I bet it's only a little thing that went wrong ( esc settings / c.o.g/ or something like that )

btw : what did you use to secure the flexcables in the propshafts ?


i used loctite its the one mhz sells for propshafts, gerwin this might be a possibility...

what annoys me is i went for mid-high range parts and people with feiago 8xl's are doing better than me

[westbeach]

I totally agree with Gerwin and John. Give it Gerwin to trouble shoot it for you. I am pretty sure it is a small hiccup, selling it now and for some one to find the hiccup will cause you further regrets. Give it a shot.



If you ever find some extra money, ship the boat to me, and i'll check it for you.
All your hardware/motors/escs/lipo's are good quality, so this baby MUST be able to become a
fast boat.
I bet it's only a little thing that went wrong ( esc settings / c.o.g/ or something like that )

btw : what did you use to secure the flexcables in the propshafts ?


I wouldn't sell it. You will lose a lot on what is probably an easy fix.

[JMSCARD]

who makes these as 150 esc's.... I see over in your area they are in widespread use?? never seen them over here in US boats.... they must be good as I see them in alot of High end builds? something is very minor wrong here.... that thing should rip :) don't sell.... don't sell....

[vvviivvv]

theres now a new version which is 200 amps constant and 300 burst? i dont know the burst... but there brilliant http://modellbau-regler.de/xtcommerce/product_info.php?info=p15_AS26-150BL.html&XTCsid=oqfk429l017t0jt4h0jlfg7i23

[Rumdog]

They better be brilliant for that price!

[JMSCARD]

They better be brilliant for that price!

holy @!>(* yeah... isn't tha like $500 US..???? for a 4-8s 150 amp speedo? wow..... can you say overpriced... is this just retail and they sell for half price or less elsewhere????

[vvviivvv]

ive seen the 150 model (mine) power a Lehner 3060...

theres 2 places which sell them, them direct and some otherwebsite, both the same price.

[vvviivvv]

This also add's to why im annoyed... i tried to get the best quality parts to make a good runner...

im even going to polish the hull before next run...

[Gerwin Brommer]

polishing is bad. you'll loose speed by doing that.
And it won't bring you the missing 15-20 mls/h

[Gerwin Brommer]

James ;

these speedo's are topnotch !
Worth every penny !
I've met the designer of these esc's at the german saw, where he showed me the
prototype of a 120A esc. About the size of a cigaret-lighter.
After testing it appeared it could do much more, he even thought of selling it as a 200A esc.
They tried to burn it, but didn't succeed.
I believe the esc they now sell as as26-200 is the one i saw, now modded with larger coolingcircuit.

[Gerwin Brommer]

vvvivvv.

try to borrow some x447's, move the lipo's as far to the back as you can, and run it ...........

[JMSCARD]

James ;

these speedo's are topnotch !
Worth every penny !
I've met the designer of these esc's at the german saw, where he showed me the
prototype of a 120A esc. About the size of a cigaret-lighter.
After testing it appeared it could do much more, he even thought of selling it as a 200A esc.
They tried to burn it, but didn't succeed.
I believe the esc they now sell as as26-200 is the one i saw, now modded with larger coolingcircuit.

Gotcha... I figured they must be something else as far as quality goes... they are in alot of the MHZ and HPR builds I have seen after looking for them.... I guess they are a notch above the Himodel 4-8s 200 ampers... LOL...

[vvviivvv]

Gerwin I tried 442s then 447's then 33 bladers... I think 447 came closest

[Gerwin Brommer]

I can imagine that.
Try to get your centre of gravity at less than 30 %

[chummer]

I don't know how much your prop direction will affect your problem but in post #4 it looks to me that they are not spinning the proper direction. Can you post a pic.

Did you ever move your batteries back. I am sure this is a simple problem that can be solved and it is most likely to do with your COG. Don't give up yet!:Peace_Sign:

[vvviivvv]

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=19192

Post 11 I'm on my iPhone so can't upload pics direct to this page

[chummer]

Maybe another memer with more twin experience will chime in here but they should rotate towards the center of the hull. Change your props and drive cables around and reverse the direction of your motors. Not really sure if that will help but worth the time to try.

[Rumdog]

It will not matter much. A lot of guys run them this way. Some think that it may give better stability in the straights. I like mine running inward for better turning.