Miss Geico Maiden Voyage

[blackcat26]

Here is a quick clip of her bone stock on 4s2p lipo. Slow, but handles good! 33.7mph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqUrdUlVUAw

[Rumdog]

Man, they do turn well. Put a good prop on her, and she'll scoot!

[johnf]

sweet! your's had the correct cable?

[FloatDaBoat]

Nice initial run; I’d be too Chicken to pass that close to that submerged tree top, though . . . .

[Brushless55]

Looks great in the turns!

[blackcat26]

Rummy, I just wanted to see what the baseline runs was before I did anything else to her. Cant decide if I am gonna go crazy on this one or keep it fairly stock. I have a tendency for going to the excessive side.....

FloatDaBoat, The first time I passed the limb was a total accident! :laugh:
The second time was on purpose. I'm not really a great driver but after running my blackjack around 75mph this boat feels relaxing.

Johnf, When I took my factory cable off it appeared to be the wrong rotation so I made up one with an octura stub shaft and correct lay cable. (Didn't want to take any chances) It's about a 1/2 shorter that the factroy stub but seems to work fine.

Brushless55, Thanks bro. I was taking some at full speed which my Blackjack wont even turn half that well.

I am really loving this boat. The shape of this hull is beautiful and the color in the pictures does not do it justice at all. It's been described as "radioactive" and I agree!

[blackcat26]

I have put 2 more runs on her since the other day and this hull still is bouncy. Tried raising the strut but then it cavitated alot and lost some top end (still bouncy). Put a x642 on her and ran again with the strut lower and gained a few mph back but is still bouncy. Everybody's video I have seen so far has this same problem.....Any idea's?

[Diesel6401]

I just rounded my rudder, haven't run it since then though. Maybe today or tomorrow ill give a test run

[blackcat26]

How much did you round it? I just kinda rounded mine enough that it would not scratch me! lol

[Diesel6401]

I used a small socket to get a nice curve. I didn't take much of, just a really smooth curve and then sharpend the leading edge.

[jac4412]

Turns on a dime

[Darin Jordan]

I have put 2 more runs on her since the other day and this hull still is bouncy. Tried raising the strut but then it cavitated alot and lost some top end (still bouncy). Put a x642 on her and ran again with the strut lower and gained a few mph back but is still bouncy. Everybody's video I have seen so far has this same problem.....Any idea's?

Did you move the batteries forward??

It could be that the ridepads need to be block-sanded as well.

On the test boat, raising the strut and moving the cells forward seemed to help a lot. My production boat is going to need some blueprinting on the ride-pads to get it where I want it. Painting and the production process seems to take it's toll on what otherwise were very true surfaces. Normal RTR "race prep" stuff...

[Darin Jordan]

By the way... on my wedge rudders, I don't "round" them... I simple use my bench-top disk sander and "V" the bottom of the rudder... Kills any lift that might be cause by the flat rudder bottom pitching. Easy to get even also. ;)

[Diesel6401]

By the way... on my wedge rudders, I don't "round" them... I simple use my bench-top disk sander and "V" the bottom of the rudder... Kills any lift that might be cause by the flat rudder bottom pitching. Easy to get even also. ;)

I will do that as well to the bottom of the rudder

[blackcat26]

Darin, I tried moving them around both directions. Seemed like it was still kinda skippy. Gonna run her again in a few minutes with the rudder mod you mentioned and try my 442 out. Have not sanded the pads yet but will soon if I can't tame this thing.

[Rumdog]

Yeah, if the ride pads arent flat, it will make all the difference in the world.

[blackcat26]

OK tried moving batts all the way to the front and raised the strut again with the 442. Still bouncy. Looked at the last ride pads and they are concave in the middle. I'm guessing that this is the problem??? So, should I fill them with something? Or try to sand em flat. Looks too deep to sand the dip out of them.:help:

[Rumdog]

wow, that much? I'd add material from the inside. Then sand flat.

[blackcat26]

Didn't measure it but looks like just under a 1/16 or so.

[blackcat26]

Got some brass shim and some plastic thin strips that will cover up the ride pads for a test run. Gonna tape em on for a quick run to see if it kills the skipping. Will post some pics tonight.

[blackcat26]

Taped the gap up with some masking tape then put a layer of duct tape over the entire last step. No changes, still bouncy. Had the batteries hanging over the front of the tray about an inch. Should I try and tape the other steps??? Somebody help before I pull my hair out!:cursing:

[Diesel6401]

Taped the gap up with some masking tape then put a layer of duct tape over the entire last step. No changes, still bouncy. Had the batteries hanging over the front of the tray about an inch. Should I try and tape the other steps??? Somebody help before I pull my hair out!:cursing:

I was thinking of running the batteries inside the sponsons themselves and not on the tray. It would allow the batteies to be placed further forward then the trays allow and also lower the cg. It was gonna be my next step. If it works I was going to cut the battery trays in half and still allow part of the tray to maintain support.

[Rumdog]

Where is the cg with batteries all the way forward? Too much forward weight can also cause bouncing. I'd flatten the pads a bit with sanding. Set the cg at about 30 percent, then try different strut adjustments.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Got a hull and hardware coming so I will be building one.

Setup:
180 ESC,
leopard 4074..2200 kv
4S 5000 40C cells
642 to start.
078 wire drive.
Tactic radio

[Diesel6401]

Where is the cg with batteries all the way forward? Too much forward weight can also cause bouncing. I'd flatten the pads a bit with sanding. Set the cg at about 30 percent, then try different strut adjustments.

I moved batts forward and aft to no change with the bounce. I thought the x642 may have had to much pitch, but every video I see has the bounce. In my video on 5s you can really see the bounce. It's not out of control and for a newbie they prob wouldn't care or know the difference, but for us we kinda get more critical of our set-ups and try to perfect or boats. All n all I really love this boat!

Jeff let me know if the 4074 will fit with the tupperware. I eyeballed mine and it looked like it would be to long for the tupperware lid to fit on, but that was a eyeball and I wear contacts so my eyes suck. That is if you are using the lid of course.

[blackcat26]

Where is the cg with batteries all the way forward? Too much forward weight can also cause bouncing. I'd flatten the pads a bit with sanding. Set the cg at about 30 percent, then try different strut adjustments.

The first part of my run I had the batts basically centered in the trays. Right at about 8.5 inches for sponson back. The second part of the run I moved them far forward to try and fix the issue. The forward Cg was about 9" from sponson back edge. Prop has just a little negative angle with the CenterLine about the bottom of the sponsons.

[befu]

Block sand the pad lightly to see where the curve is, then fill it with some spot putty and let dry. Sand/fill/sand/fill/sand until it is flat. You do not want to just sand it down flat as you will change the sponson height to much if you are off by 1/16". that is actually quite a bit if it is that deep of a curve! You shouldn't have to add any material to the inside of the hull, sanding way to much if you get into the glass. You want to flatten the ride surface, not change the hull shape.

Spot putty comes in a tube (maybe 8 oz) in the automotive section by paints and bondo at wally world or at auto part stores. Spread it on with a piece of plastic or other straight edge and let dry, do not make it to thick.

good luck, Brian

[blackcat26]

Befu, I may do that Man I hate putting the grit to a new boat! I measured the dip and in it's lowest spot it about .04 deep. Is the spot putty better than Bondo? I realize it's made by Bondo. You are talking about glazing putty right? Should I do just the last steps or the ones before also?

[Jeff Wohlt]

Every run I have seen looks like everyone is trying to run it like it has no steps....on the very last bit of the hull...which will make it teeter. The boat should ride more flat and touching the second step. Just my opinon and what I see on real cats. I think and will try running mine with more power and bit flatter.

[blackcat26]

Hmm. I did notice mine was like that tonight. Maybe it needs some weight up front??? My batts were about 1" overhanging the front of the tray with the prop just a little neg and it still ran like that.

[Jeff Wohlt]

If the prop is a little neg then try moving the cells a little more forward to try. The CG may be a bit off as originally set up. Can't hurt to try.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Blackcat...yours looks pretty darn good in the video...I do not see much porpoising.

[blackcat26]

IN the turns it clears up but listen to the straights, waw waw waw waw waw. You can even see a puffs in the roostertail instead of a solid stream.

[Darin Jordan]

Has anyone tried moving the strut LOWER instead of HIGHER?? Moving the strut up is going to raise the nose by drawing the rear down (I think I have that correct, right Jay???) If the boat has hooks in the rear ride-pads already, they (the ride pads) are already trying to be "sucked" down. Forcing them to do that further by moving the prop up may just aggravate the condition.

[blackcat26]

I've tried it lower and it still lopes. I've tried higher and pos and neg. Nothing clears it up yet.

[Jeff Wohlt]

A set of tabs would but I would not want to do that but I may try it on mine.

[Diesel6401]

Every run I have seen looks like everyone is trying to run it like it has no steps....on the very last bit of the hull...which will make it teeter. The boat should ride more flat and touching the second step. Just my opinon and what I see on real cats. I think and will try running mine with more power and bit flatter.

:iagree: Jeff, I reviewed my vid in the straights and it riding on the last step but where the curve is it teeters just touching the second step, but not fully riding on it. Have to get the nose down just a little so that it can ride on more of the second step but not all of it. JMO of course!
I will try a few oz of lead in each sponson next week and see if I can get the nose down a tad.

[Steven Vaccaro]

If everyone watches the Infomercial video, you can clearly see the boat in the video bounces a bit.

Embrace it and enjoy the boat. Perfection is hard to achieve in mass production. I again applaud ProBoat and Darin for giving me such an awesome boat to play with and sell at a reasonable price.

Again there isn't another cat on the market that handles this well and runs this fast out of the box at this price tag.

[Darin Jordan]

I have a race this weekend with the Classic Thunder crew that I'm prepping for right now, but I will try to get on my Miss G as soon as I can to start blueprinting the bottom and see if getting the sponsons sharper and flatter helps. I really think this may be the foundation to getting the rest of the setup working "perfectly".

Dang... if they handle this well in the turns with the rather "rounded" sponson edges... can't wait to see this hull grab when everything is crisp and sharp!

Race Prep thread will be updated as I make progress... Also can't wait to see what others do with these... I hear there is a GOOD supply of right-hand turn cables for those wanting to install counter-rotating dual motors! :thumbup:

[Diesel6401]

If everyone watches the Infomercial video, you can clearly see the boat in the video bounces a bit.

Embrace it and enjoy the boat. Perfection is hard to achieve in mass production. I again applaud ProBoat and Darin for giving me such an awesome boat to play with and sell at a reasonable price.

Again there isn't another cat on the market that handles this well and runs this fast out of the box at this price tag.

I think those are the key points everyone myself included may have forgotten. Everytime I see this boat sittng on the rack I get a big smile on my face, she truely is a work of art!

[blackcat26]

Steven, there is no doubt that to me this is the best looking,handling and value of a RTR boat there is. However, there is a problem here. I would not call it being a perfectionist but wanting it to be "right". I have run 3 different Blackjacks and a Thundercat, all similar hull designs and none have had this problem. (just guessing that it may be a hull flaw) Mine has dips in the center of the steps but I didn't think that would be a big deal. I don't mind working on it to get it straightened out but I would like to get to the bottom of the problem. BTW I put a different speed control in and ran tonight to eliminate the possibility of some kind of funky ESC problem. No change at all. Still trying things to see whats up.

[befu]

Befu, I may do that Man I hate putting the grit to a new boat! I measured the dip and in it's lowest spot it about .04 deep. Is the spot putty better than Bondo? I realize it's made by Bondo. You are talking about glazing putty right? Should I do just the last steps or the ones before also?

Yes, glazing putty or spot putty. I think it is a lacquer based product, dries doesn't cure. Bondo is a polyester based product and hardens with a catalyst (Epoxy uses a hardener)

The bondo would work, but i am careful to recommend it as people try to put to much on and then use a coarse paper to make the sanding go quicker. That can make it easy to change the shape of the sponson.

If using bondo, rough up the surface first for a good mechanical grip. Then spread the bondo on thinly. the surface tension of the applicator and shrinkage will cause it to still be slighty low, but that is OK. Block it out until you get back down to your high points and then repeat it again. The Bondo will adhear to any unsanded bondo well because of the uncured layer of bondo (that is why the sandpaper loads up when you first start to sand. go back and do multiple thin layers, finish with spot putty if you wish.

If you really want a flat smooth bottom, here is another trick. Block sand the bottom as before. Take a piece of flat something, wax it up and use it to squish the sponson bottom. could be flat glass, aluminum plate, a gauge block... just perfectly flat. Then after the bondo kicks off but before it gets super hard, remove the block and trim the edges sharp with a knife, then let it finish kicking off. Another trick is to tape a piece of plastic to the solid block, that way you can remove the block and then peel the plastic off. Lowers the chance of the bondo coming off with the solid block.

as far as what pads to do, I have no idea! I stink at setting up and running boats, I just love the composites! My setups are just for fun and cheap, noone thinks they really work.

Brian

[Jeff Wohlt]

I will be building mine a little nose heavy so the cells can bring it back if needed. But I also intend on running some bigger power with the 2200 KV motor.

Could be a tunnel issue just like the HPR cat until they added the wedge....just air issues. Loading an unloading the tunnel can do it. Once it begins to bounce you get the load and unload in the tunnel and then it just continues.

Get some weight on the front and see if it helps.

This is still my favorite hull for ease of set up. I never adjusted it from my first run Strut flat...only the cells a bit so balance. She rides clean and flat and the tunnel begins to work at upper speeds to lift as you can see. Bottoms..crap, not straight, sponsons are not equal, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM8keupHaHw

[blackcat26]

Befu thanks for the info. I will probably try the ride pad fix last. Jeff you may be right about the weight and the tunnel might be the problem as well. If you watch the video the "skipping" quits in the turns which makes me think tunnel. Gonna run her tonight with some weight and see what happens. Then regroup

[blackcat26]

Ok ran her with some weight in it (about a pound) just forward of the motor behind the factory styrofoam. No difference in ride, just slowed top speed down. Put the weight on top almost all the way forward just to see what happens and still no difference. Still searching for the problem......Jeff may be right might be a tunnel isssue. Will test more this weekend weather permitting.

[Darin Jordan]

Jeff may be right might be a tunnel isssue. Will test more this weekend weather permitting.

Before you blame the tunnel design (possible, but I'm thinking not)... get your ride-pads FLAT. If they have concavity and aren't dead flat, they will act like suction cups.

If you want to try something to test the tunnel theory, put an airdam in the tunnel and kill the aerolift. See if that changes the ride at all.

My bet is on the blueprinting of the ride-pads...

[Jeff Wohlt]

Darin has a good point. Look at your sponsons first. I am surprised the weight did not settle it down for you. Once you do the bottoms then just paint the steps a flat black...might look cool and keeps the shine off.

I will check mine soon. It is waiting on me to go pick up...probably on Sat.

[blackcat26]

OK Darin I didn't want to but I will re-do the bottoms.
Jeff I had 2 broken 3/4 carbide endmill shanks for weight and they did absolutely nothing!
One kinda cool thing is I made a makeshift damn under the tunnel and it caused some strange ride characteristics and blew over and landed upside down. Tried my fishing rod to get her back with no luck, was out of range. Decided to try the prop as an "airboat" and brought her back upside down with fully functioning turns via rudder. Was pretty cool I thought. Btw after being upside down untaped boat was completely dry! Good job Darin!

[Fluid]

Every run I have seen looks like everyone is trying to run it like it has no steps....on the very last bit of the hull...which will make it teeter. The boat should ride more flat and touching the second step.

If this hull had real steps then I'd agree, but it does not. The sponson bottoms are dead flat front to rear with gaps, not steps - for all practical purposes it does not have steps. No problem with this, many of the hulls I've designed and built had no steps yet they performed very well. On most of them I was able to run on the last few inches of the sponsons, flying the bow without porpoising.

Every cat design is a bit different and some need more care in setup than others. I'm sure that we will eventually get the Miss Geico sorted out like we did the UL-1 and the BlackJack so that everyone's MG will run well.


.

[ron1950]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqY7N...eature=related

watch this vid he has moved his battery back so the cg is back and it works great....

[Diesel6401]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqY7N...eature=related

watch this vid he has moved his battery back so the cg is back and it works great....

He also lowered the strut, which is what made the biggest difference. He just didn't mention that in the description. I shoot him a pm on youtube as I was curious to what he did. So yes he moved the batts back, reason it seems (and just my thoughts, i may be completly wrong) he did so is that he dropped the strut so low that the transom would want to run high and the boat would run to wet. So he lowered the strut to sovle the bounce issue, then moved the batts back very far so the boat didn't run wet. Seems the combo worked, I will give a try. On 5s of course :tongue_smilie:

[blackcat26]

Good investigative work Diesel! His is running best of what I've seen so far.

[Jeff Wohlt]

I will go pick up my hull today. Jay is probably right...not really steps but more like inducing air....steps.

I think it will be some easy set up changes and not some hot trick on the hull like dams, wedges,etc.

Corning is still awesome and bounce is hard on the ESC and cable but will cut speed as well.

Just more of a challenge but that is what makes this fun. Maybe the CG does need to come back and the strut dropped. Keeping the blades planted.

Bad video link...won't open for me.

[Fluid]

Guys, I feel kinda silly for not mentioning something in my post above. When I was testing the prototype AquaCraft cat I noticed that it ran smoothly (although not quite as fast) with the prop centerline even with the sponson bottoms. This was the first commercial cat I'd worked with which preferred such a deep strut setting, perhaps the ProBoat cat does too. More testing needed here.

Moving the CG back on a cat will help the prop carry the bow but can promote blow offs. Without enough speed a too far forward CG will let the bow rise and fall. From the video this does not look like the case, but that's all I've seen of the stock boat running.



.

[blackcat26]

Jeff, it won't open now. Kinda strange. He may have taken it off.

[Jeff Wohlt]

It was a common set up on the 3.5 tunnels/nitro to run the prop shaft center even with the sponsons. Jay may have it pretty close.

Hope to have mine put together in a week or two and get out there.

[Diesel6401]

Good investigative work Diesel! His is running best of what I've seen so far.

Thanks.

Good find on the video ron and posting it for us to throughly look at.

[blackcat26]

Ride pads will be finished tomorrow. Check out the Geico section for pics. It's like watching paint dry. Oh wait it is.:sleep:

[ron1950]

i wont open for me any more either ....must have taken it down

[nomobux]

By the way... on my wedge rudders, I don't "round" them... I simple use my bench-top disk sander and "V" the bottom of the rudder... Kills any lift that might be cause by the flat rudder bottom pitching. Easy to get even also. ;)

Could you put up a picture of that mod please. I'm having trouble visualizing it.

[blackcat26]

The very bottom of the factory wedge rudder is flat. Turn your boat upside down and file those edges to make it tapered like the front of the blade. With no flat on the bottom you eliminate lift from the rudder.

[nomobux]

Ah , gotcha. thanx

[JPriami]

looks good. nice looking boat

[blackcat26]

Thanks bro. This was straight outta the box before tuning......