Black Jack Esc shutdown

[RCprince]

I tried to run a 3300/kv Bl and the Esc kept shutting down at full throttle, I'm thinking it might be the esc rev limiter thinking it's free running due to the high kv. :confused: :unsure:

[Eyekandyboats]

pulling to many amps thermaling.
the more KV the more amps. That esc is only rated for 45 amps, thats is what i have in my micro

[wickedgmc]

are you running that motor on 14.8 volts? If so thats 48,840 RPM :ohmy: :ohmy:

If that is what you are doing i would be happy there was a rev limiter and saved your esc.

If that is the motor you want to run try running the 2 batts in parallel and you will get half the rpm and alot happier system. But you need to stay under 45 amp draw

[RCprince]

No I'm running it on 14 3600's integy intellects, which says after fully charged 20.562 volts...I assume those are unload volts.

[wickedgmc]

wow, you are almost exceeding the voltage of the esc for one and your rpms will probably explode the motor as well. You are running 55,000 rpm unloaded or 67,000 rpm if you held the 20.5v. At this point your going to blow up all of your equipment!

Question for you, how much rc experience do you have?

[RCprince]

I, use to run rc's years ago say about ten years, just getting back into as of this year, the brushless era enticed me once again. I ran that 3300 Kv in my Ep1 outboard SuperVee27 on a 4s lipo...It launches out of the water spinning a a range of props from a 632 to a 442 I had to make some trim tabs out of soft alum, so they could be more adjustable otherwise the thing would just tuck and roll all day.

[wickedgmc]

cool, welcome back

Keep a few things in mind kv multiplied by voltage equals unloaded rpm, running that many cells is not a bad thing, but how you wire them will change everything

wire them in series will double the voltage more stress on the cells

wire them in parallel and you will double the runtime less stress on the cells

try running them in parallel and see how it works both packs red wire connected to the esc red wire and both packs black wire to the black wire of the esc. It will give you 24,000 rpm and run for a long time that way. Props will also play into the equation but that will be increase the heat of the equipment so you will have to keep an eye on that stuff too.

Have fun

[RCprince]

Yea, your right, the motor and batteries were hot, but the Esc was super cool

[NorthernBoater]

I recall reading before that it is not a good idea to parallel NiMh cells.

[whiplash]

:huh: Why?.......

[SJFE]

Because of the weight. It's pointless.

[fshunt4lf]

Iam new to all of this electrice talk and I just baught the BJ 26 and Iam haveing the same problem of not getting full throttle. I can only run the boat half throttle and Iam useing two venoem 3000 nimh pluged into the speed controller. What do I need to do?

[wickedgmc]

I believe there is a no load safety on the esc, if it see's no load it shuts off

[fshunt4lf]

Yea but it will go half throttle in the water.

[SJFE]

Maybe the low voltage cutoff has been set for lipo. The esc may not be seeing the right voltage and shuting down????. IDK just a shot in the dark.

[RCprince]

Wow I posted something yesterday and I disappeared....hmmmm

[RCprince]

Found the problem with the ESC shutting down, keep your finger on the throttle of your radio, while pluging in Batteries, release trigger after esc makes 3 sets of beeps last one should be voltage count off batteries, then it just keeps repeating same tones.

[Fade2Gray]

Hi Everyone,

I am having the same issue with my ESC in the BJ.

Interesting enough, when l testing the motor and esc using full throttle with my BJ sitting on top of my kitchen benchtop at home (out of water) the ESC/Motor does not cut-out and continues until, l could keep this up but l don't want to risk it.

I will give RCPrinces tip a go to see if this fixes things.
i.e.
1. Power on transmitter, keep your finger on the throttle of your radio, while plugging in Batteries (l am going to need extra hands here).
2. Release trigger after esc makes 3 sets of beeps (last one should be voltage count off batteries).

On another topic, my BJ stock receiver failed to work after its first maiden voyage i.e. it worked once and that was it, l swapped it over with my stock AM receiver and transmitter unit from my SuperVee - ( I use a spektrum now for my SuperVee).

Is anyone else having these problems with ESC cutoff and faulty receiver?

Thanks in advance.

[RCprince]

I use a Pheonix 110HV now in my BJ with a Futaba 3PM radio

[Fade2Gray]

Hi Everyone (again)

Well today l tested the BJ using the tip supplied by RCPrince unfortunately it made no difference using my current setup.

Here's the deal that's got me baffled;

1.BJ powers up at full throttle when its sitting on its boat stand and doesn't cut out i.e. when the boat is not placed in water ready for its take off.

2.When the BJ is placed in water, it cuts out at full throttle however it stays on at half throttle.

How does the BJ know if it is placed in water or not?? It works fine when it is not placed in water, but fails when its powered up in the water. I have tried tilting the boat on a 45degree angle into water and that seems to keep the BJ powered up but as soon as it placed horizontally into water... it stops at full throttle.

What gives??:confused1:
I am using a stock SuperVee AM receiver and it's transmitter along with a set of IB4200's and a M440 prop.

I appreciate it if anyone could shed some light on this problem..

Thanks again.

[RCprince]

I've read on RRR site that many people are sending them back for replacements.

[propdrvr]

I have the esc shutting down with the 4200 packs, however the problem does not happen when using my 3800 packs...any ideas?

I'm curious about the best course of action to take...what are most of you guys with the problem doing? exchange, return, change the esc or just burn the darn thing! just kidding :w00t:

Thanks!

[Rex R]

the 4200's may have a higher initial voltage than the 3800's, higher than the esc can handle. some folks have had the same prob with the sv.

[Apples1]

I had the same problem....it turned out i had one slightly dodgey cell in most (8) of my packs but i found a matched 4200IB set of two that works fine, i still having been able to run it on 14 cells.

to test this problem charge at the slowest rate possible if it still does it, it is a cell problem, if it works then your cells have too much inital voltage, which can sometimes come from a high charge rate. Apparently.

i think this comes with a ESC that opperates right on its limit with no buffer unlike other RTR boats, the performance is worth it though.

Good Luck

[propdrvr]

Thanks for the information, I'll try these solutions.

[goingdef]

I will tell you this right now already went through this with my friends he tried everything and in te end it was what I said the whole time weak batterys pull down until voltage cutoff kicks in right at full throttle.All you have to do is run a good set of lipo,s we went with a 5000mah 4cell with a real high discharge rate now he see,s 12-15 run times with no cutout but they screw you into buying the program card to switch to lipo.Try a lipo and voltage for just a moment as to not over discharge but I promise it will not kickout good luck.

[lincpimp]

I have a BLJ26 that is doing the same thing on a pair of venom 4200 6 cell packs. It works fine on the stand, but in the water when a high load is placed on it it will cutoff.

I can get the boat up to speed by slowly feeding in throttle, but it will cut out past about 1/2 throttle. Ful throttle from a start gives about 3 seconds of power before cutoff. It feels like the lipo cutoff is doing this.

I plan to test with a voltmeter and a bucket of water tomorrow, place the test leads on the esc input wires and hold the boat with the prop in the bucket. I will try a variety of throttle inputs and see what the voltage drops to.

I am not a nimh guy, strictly lipo. The boat is a buddy's and he is not too good at trouble shooting!

[Apples1]

it's most likely one dead cell(in one pack), venom's are notoriours for this, i had the same problems. switch to Intellect if you can.

Good luck

[lincpimp]

The packs are ok, just can't keep up with the power requirements!

I tried it today with a pair of polyquest 3600 12c 4s lipos wired in parallel. Same weight, but I have 7200 mah compared to 4200 mah from the venoms.

No comparision really, the lipos never hit the lvc, even after 20mins of hard running.

I tested the venoms with the prop in a bucket of water, and a voltmeter across the esc inputs. Fully charged the venoms were sitting at 16.5v. Full load with the prop submersed dropped the voltage to 10.9v, and that is when the esc shut down. Repeated the test about 6 times, same every time. Almost 6v drop under load, that is poor!

So venom 4200 cells just cannot deliver the required amps. Crap batteries!

On a side note, the bj26 did not turn worth a crap and did not seem as fast as my stock sv27. I also did not seem to handle the slight chop as well either. Maybe I am just more familiar with the sv!

[Apples1]

stock speeds are within 2mph of each other in my tests at my local club

[Dragonturbo3]

I had 5 brand new black jacks out of the box doing the same thing this weekend. I plugged the programming card into each one changing the voltage cutoff to low and problem solved. We keep the card at the local hobby shop now and pre-program them before they leave the shop.

[kburrows]

So did it?



Found the problem with the ESC shutting down, keep your finger on the throttle of your radio, while pluging in Batteries, release trigger after esc makes 3 sets of beeps last one should be voltage count off batteries, then it just keeps repeating same tones.

[dendrobate]

I had 5 brand new black jacks out of the box doing the same thing this weekend. I plugged the programming card into each one changing the voltage cutoff to low and problem solved. We keep the card at the local hobby shop now and pre-program them before they leave the shop.

So with a pair of venom 4200 6 cell packs ,if I get the programmer this should solve the cut off issue?
Thanks

[Wakesurfer]

Took my boat out for its second run this evening. Got the Spektrum in it, and throttle resopnse was a lot smoother up to about 3/4 throttle. And then it shut down. Hope that programming card is at the LHS Wednesday. Why even put a LVC on a Nimh setting?

[Jeepers]

because even NiMh shouldnt be drained to far.

[dendrobate]

What is the max battery that can be used with a stock BJ?

[dendrobate]

Anyone recommend the ESC programmer settings when using with a pair of venom 4200 6 cell pack ?
Thanks

[Wakesurfer]

because even NiMh shouldnt be drained to far.

I suppose some people may not realize that when the RC slows down the batteries are running low and need to be recharged. But for the rest of us, I think a LVC that comes from the factory set to high is pretty rediculous. If people don't have enough common sense to stop when the batteries are starting to dump they are probably prime candidates for a Darwin Award and should stick to text messaging while driving instead of getting into a hobby like RC. OK, I'll stop ranting now. My programing card will be in Wednesday after work. Time to go LiPo and see what this boat can really do.

[ETOWNE]

If people don't have enough common sense to stop when the batteries are starting to dump they are probably prime candidates for a Darwin Award and should stick to text messaging while driving instead of getting into a hobby like RC.

Dude that's really funny. I have been using my BJ w/ 2 Orion 4800 Lipos w/o the program card. When the boat starts slowing down, if you can't tell this revert to wakesurfers comment,bring it in. I love these batteries, I have smc IB4200 race packs,they lose cells nonstop. Those of you that are having problems w/ Nimh,run a volt meter across each cell. Dead packs should show 1.2o volts on each cell. Charged cell should be in the 1.5 to 1.6 range.Hope this helpss some of you.

[dendrobate]

Dude that's really funny. I have been using my BJ w/ 2 Orion 4800 Lipos w/o the program card. When the boat starts slowing down, if you can't tell this revert to wakesurfers comment,bring it in. I love these batteries, I have smc IB4200 race packs,they lose cells nonstop. Those of you that are having problems w/ Nimh,run a volt meter across each cell. Dead packs should show 1.2o volts on each cell. Charged cell should be in the 1.5 to 1.6 range.Hope this helpss some of you.
I thought I read that you require the program card to set the esc for lipo ?

[dendrobate]

Anyone recommend the ESC programmer settings when using with a pair of venom 4200 6 cell pack ?
Thanks
:help:

:help:

:help:

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[DonVlcek]

Part 1 Solving the Blackjack 26 ESC Shutdown Problem

The first time out with the Blackjack 26 Brushless the boat functioned perfectly. I ran the boat all over the lake until the battery voltage went low. When the voltage went low boat just stopped in the water, and when I released and reapplied the trigger on the transmitter (the throttle), the boat just went a short distance and stopped. It didn’t take me long to figure out that I could only go to half throttle without cutting out, so I returned the boat ashore. Not bad for the first day, and I liked the low voltage cutout feature of the Blackjack 26 ESC.

After recharging the batteries the second time out was a different story. Every time I tried to advance the throttle, the boat just went as short distance and stopped, so I just returned ashore at half throttle.

The third time out was just about the same as the second, what has happened to my ESC? Knowing that most of the problems we have with electronic devices are self inflected, I decided to look at what I was doing wrong. OK, time to read the manual. Wamo, there it was. I was just leaving the switch turned on and just connecting the batteries. The manual didn’t say “With the transmitter turned on and the ESC switch turned off connect the batteries, then turn ON the ESC switch. You will here a Low/Hi beep”.

The correct power on sequence is:
• Check to see if the ESC switch is turned OFF
• Turn on the transmitter
• Connect the batteries
• Turn on the ESC switch (Low/High confirmation beep)

Using this sequence the Blackjack 26 Brushless ran like the first time out. After running for a while, I did notice that in tight turns, just a fraction of a second after heavy cavitation, the LVC kicked in. This was probably due to a drop in voltage when the prop re-caught, just after the cavitation. If I loosened up a bit in the turns, the LVC would not kick-in. After a couple more laps, the LVC started kicking in, and it was time to bring it in.

While I was back home, recharging the batteries and greasing the drive shaft, I decided to raze the strut and re-test. This should lower the current and raze the voltage, especially in the turns. While attempting to raze the strut I didn’t get very much so I decided to reprogram the ESC

Before reprogramming the ESC checked the cutoff voltages in the manual

High Cutoff Mode
• The Cutoff voltage for NiMh is .9 volts per cell or (.9x12 cells = 10.8 Volts)
• The Cutoff voltage for LiPo is 3.0 volts per cell or (3.0x4 cells = 12 Volts)
Low Cutoff Mode
• The Cutoff voltage for NiMh is .7 volts per cell or (.7x12 cells = 8.4 Volts)
• The Cutoff voltage for LiPo is 2.7 volts per cell or (2.7x4 = 10.8 Volts)

Once the batteries were recharged, I checked the charging Milliamps/Time at 3160 MAh and 101 minutes, at a charge rate of 2 Amps. Using two 3800 MAh batteries is appeared the batteries were going dead and the Voltage Cutoff operated correctly.

I decided to go ahead with the ESC reprogramming, and reset the ESC with the programming module, to the settings below, and take the boat back to the pond.

ESC programming:
• Battery Type, NiMh
• Cutoff Voltage, Low
• Cutoff Type, slow Down
• Break, Off
• Timing Low, In runner Motor
• Throttle Curve, Linear

Well I guess all you guys out there with Blackjack 26 Brushless are going to have to purchase the programming module. The little missile turned on like I would never expected from the Duratrax 3800 MAh batteries. The Low Voltage Cutout never operated and never s kicked out in the turns. I could tell when the boat slowed down it was time to come in (why push it).
I don’t know what kind of a program the ESC had in its little brain box, but the program module fixed it! I will rename this file to Part 1 Solving the Blackjack 26 ESC Shutdown Problem. The next testing will be done with LiPo’s.

[dendrobate]

Thanks for the info , nice to see a new member help out another new member.

[DonVlcek]

I think the problem started when I plugged in the batteries with the ESC switch still ON and the transmitter turned OFF. The ESC reprogrammed itself. It’s a different kind of a beep when the ESC excepts a new program.

Now that I am using the correct power on sequence I haven’t had any cutting out problems.

[Chop]

I too have been having problems with my Blackjack. I followed this thread and programmed it as suggested with one exception:

ESC programming:
• Battery Type, NiMh
• Cutoff Voltage, Low
• Cutoff Type, slow Down
• Break, On
• Timing Low, In runner Motor
• Throttle Curve, Linear

The boat, on two occasions has gone out, about 150 yards and then just quit.

Any suggestions?

[DonVlcek]

Here as few things that you can try:

1. When the boat cuts out raise the transmitter over your head and try again.
2. I would strongly recommend a ground range check (most important).
3. If you are using a retrieval boat, take the transmitter with you, and give it a quick try when you get closer.
4. Try a second battery powering the receiver, your BEC may be cutting out.
5. Try backing down on the throttle trim just a bit.

Most of the problems show up on a ground range check.

I hope this has been of some help.
Don

[Chop]

I tried again today. This time I set the throttle to “Logrithmic” thinking that W.O.T. was the issue. The same thing happened. The boat went out about 200 yards and then just quit. It was along the shoreline and I was no more that 100 feet from it.

Once the boat was back on shore the ESC would not arm.

I will try the “keep your finger on the throttle of your radio, while plugging in Batteries, release trigger after esc makes 3 sets of beeps last one should be voltage count off batteries” next.

[Wakesurfer]

Was the power switch off when you plugged the batteries in? I missed it the first time. Kinda hides in the tupperware bowl. Is your steering servo still responding when the ESC cuts out?

[Chop]

No. The steering was lost too.

[Wakesurfer]

Hmmm...That doesn't sound like the usual low voltage cutoff issue. Until I programmed mine with the card, the ESC would cut the motor at full throtle, but I still had steering. And if I'd lift and gas again it would go. If the BEC in the ESC is weak, a reciever battery might keep it going. Sounds like a Tx/Rx issue to me though. Do you have access to another 2ch Tx/Rx system to try? If it won't work with a different radio, then the ESC is probably the culprit. Good luck!

[electric]

We bought three of these boats and two of them have the same problem you are describing. I spoke with Horizon Hobby and they said to pull the motor and the esc and send it in to be looked at. I am going to try the throttle deal this weekend and see if that works. I did wonder if possibly the boat is losing the signal and the esc is shutting down because of that? I might drop an extra spektrum I have in and see if that makes a difference. If neither of these work I give up. I am going to drop in some old SV internals and send the rest in to be checked out. Sure takes all of the fun out of having the boat.

[electric]

Well, reprogrammed it and that seemed to correct the problem. The boat ran great this weekend with no problems.

[G-UNIT]

Same problem here, tried the full throttle/battery hook up trick,
no work, venom 3600 nimh batts. When i get a day off i'm going to mlh and pitch b***h, batterys are only 3 1/2 weeks old with about 11 runs on them, hopfully they will replace them ( wishfull thinking ) maybe when i tell them i will be buying lipos and charger , fullers hwd ect
they will accomadate me.

[jamespl]

I'm having the same problem, I have 2 sets of nimh the first ones I bought for the boat 4600 vp racing ones then I bought a set of 5100's that is when I had the cutoff problem so I tried my origional 4600 vp ones and no problem. I then bought a pair of 4300 vp racing batteries and these cut off aswell so I belive it may be the batteries that are not upto the job. Do you have to charge and discharge nimh batteries. A number of tomes before they start working at their full potential?

[animigan]

This issue has come up numerous times (even in the past few weeks) on this forum and the solution is always the same. Old posts are more detailed, but NiMH batteries just can't hack it, and nobody has problems with ESC cutoff when using LiPOs. Ditch the old technology, and never look back.

Andre

[G-UNIT]

Yea the batts are crap see my responce under at a stand still.
How many amp charger are you using?
To high a charging amperage will not full charge the battery properly.

[jamespl]

My charger is preset to 1.2ma from the mains so that's what I'm charging them at. I think lipos is the next step but it's a lot of cash for a new charger and 2 packs specialy as I'm getting married next year the other half is moaning about how much I'm spending on this boat! I'm looking at £200 for a charger and 2 packs that's about $350-375