Banning traditional clothing???????????????

[m4a1usr]

Well,.........the Frenchies are going one better. They want to ban Burkas or a facial wrap on Muslim women! And there are civil penalties if you disobey. Jail for wearing ones religious freedom and or expression? Who the hell do the French think they are? Nice to see such a socialist society take on such right wing extremism. Maybe neck ties are next? Or maybe Nike clothing?

John

[ozzie-crawl]

well to me i am all for banning the burka.
there is votes about to go threw on the n.s.w parliament (AUS) very soon about its ban.
here in QLD they can have there car licence picture taken with it.
to me its a threat to our security.
i also look at the fact if a non muslim woman goes to a muslim state she has to cover her head,thats fair enough there country there religion there rules.
if a none muslim country banns them hows that any different.
biggest problem western societies face is there politicians and a lot of others are so scared of being labeled racists and such there letting minority groups take over and do as they please.
they come to western countries and setup synagogues to preach hate of non muslim and western society,yet they want to live in our free societies and take advantage of our life style.
if we take a christian bible to there countries see how far you get, how many non muslim churches are there in there muslim states,none they have zero tolerance.
personally i am sick of these types of people have nothing but hate for western societies yet want to live here,have no tolerance for for other cultures or religions yet want everyone to tolerate there's.
they don't even follow there own bible properly but twist its words and meanings to justify there actions.

[ozzie-crawl]

my views maybe rather strong on this,but there is no were in the Koran that says a women must cover her face completely.
they want to turn all countries into muslim states,if people want to stand back and allow that to happen,dont bitch when they take over.
dont bitch when your wife,daughter,granddaughter has to keep there whole head covered,that by there laws your wife,daughters,grand daughters will have there genitals butch ed,if there rapped then there stoned to death and you get to throw the first stones.
its not a religion,thats just used to justify there actions.

[Doby]

There are some people that consider that modern civilization started in the Middle East...it may have started there, but it stopped evolving the day after it started.

I agree with Ozzie. We all worry about the minorites concerns over the majorities.

Needs to stop before it gets out of control.

[Jmauld]

What the french do is their choice. Good for them for standing up to this religion.

[domwilson]

How is this different from what some islamic nations do? We shouldn't group all muslims in the same category as the extremists who commit violent crimes. Islam doesn't teach violence. As with most other religions, there are some that take things to the extreme. I do not agree with them wearing the apparel when qualifying for forms of identification but I do respect and appreciate their adherence to their basic religious beliefs. An no, it is not terrorizing people of different religions.

[ozzie-crawl]

it has been said that "not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims"
i have personally know a few Muslims and they were very nice people
they kept there faith but integrated into Australian society.
But they amount of programs on tv in different western countries interviewing those running mos-cs show the hatred there breading and the contempt they have for us even tho there living in a non Muslim country.
you see them demonstrating in the U.K saying that England will soon get its 9/11
here in Australia when the twin towers were hit there was reports of Muslim communities celebrating.
a person i know working in a hotel here seen a big group of Muslims in the hotel all jump for joy and started cheering wen it came on the news that the twin towers were hit.
yes it maybe a small minority of them that strap bombs on but a majority of them clearly hate us,yet they hide behind a so called religion,thus giving them justification to hate us.
this is not what there Koran preaches but is the manipulation of words and small sections of the Koran, even tho its a book of contradictions.
seems its okay for them to preach there hate but if i stand up and say some thing against them iam the bad guy

[domwilson]

but if i stand up and say some thing against them iam the bad guy

Not at all. Some say that americans are bloodthirsty. I know I'm not. Almost all religions have some form of terrorism in their history. For the most part it is not the faith, but the people who misinterpret the teachings of it. History has taught us that. Unfortunately, we tend to group people in the same categories that is common to "those bad seeds". This is the basis for prejudice. For instance, not all italians are in the mafia. Not all bald white guys are skinheads. Not all black men want to rape white women. Not all asians are bad drivers or know kung fu. Not all priests molest little boys. Not all americans want to bomb brown people. It is the lack of knowledge or understanding that leads to such generalizations or stereotypes.

[ozzie-crawl]

what the hell are you talking about dom of course all asians know kunfu :just-kidding:
i fully understand what your saying, and yes some of my comments are extreme.
you are right in saying its not so much there faith but human interpretation of the koran, still doesnt make it rite.
and as i stated earlier there using religion as an excuse to justify it as a holy war.
i am not religious but if there is a god would he want people killing in his name ?
and yes christian chuchs have a lot to answer for as well.
there wearing of the burka is not written in the koran but a man made thing

[AndyKunz]

If you want to live in America (or Canada, or Oz, or chase sheep) then do as the Americans (or Canadians, or ...).

Ask a service woman who was deployed to Saudi Arabia during the 91 Gulf War what she had to do when leaving the base. I don't know if that's different for those in Iraq or Afghanistan today, but I do know what it was 20 years ago.

If they can require us to follow their mores when in their cities, why should we not require they follow our mores when they come here?

Andy

[AndyKunz]

Almost all religions have some form of terrorism in their history.

I know mine has - on the receiving end, for hundreds of years. And the terrorizing religion has yet to apologize.

Andy

[domwilson]

what the hell are you talking about dom of course all asians know kunfu :just-kidding:
i fully understand what your saying, and yes some of my comments are extreme.
you are right in saying its not so much there faith but human interpretation of the koran, still doesnt make it rite.
and as i stated earlier there using religion as an excuse to justify it as a holy war.
i am not religious but if there is a god would he want people killing in his name ?
and yes christian chuchs have a lot to answer for as well.
there wearing of the burka is not written in the koran but a man made thing

Unfortunately we have a lot of misguided people in this world who kill for various reasons. Religion, money, infidelity, race, sexuality, governmental ideologies, perceived threats, drugs, natural resources, etc. It doesn't make it right. But we have enough idiots in this world to justify just about anything. There are islamic extremists who should be dealt with accordingly for they terrorize the innocent and choose violence as a means of expressing their discontent. This is not acceptable by any means. But should we punish or blame the whole for the actions of a few?

[domwilson]

If you want to live in America (or Canada, or Oz, or chase sheep) then do as the Americans (or Canadians, or ...).

Ask a service woman who was deployed to Saudi Arabia during the 91 Gulf War what she had to do when leaving the base. I don't know if that's different for those in Iraq or Afghanistan today, but I do know what it was 20 years ago.

If they can require us to follow their mores when in their cities, why should we not require they follow our mores when they come here?

Andy

Because we are a nation of tolerance?

[ozzie-crawl]

If you want to live in America (or Canada, or Oz, or chase sheep) then do as the Americans (or Canadians, or ...).

Ask a service woman who was deployed to Saudi Arabia during the 91 Gulf War what she had to do when leaving the base. I don't know if that's different for those in Iraq or Afghanistan today, but I do know what it was 20 years ago.

If they can require us to follow their mores when in their cities, why should we not require they follow our mores when they come here?

Andy

thats my point exactly, if we choose to live in there country we have to live by there rules, but if they live in ours they dont seem to have to.
it seems more and more that we cant even voice our opinion.
i may seem to be generalising them but no more than them generalising us as the great satan,most of us are decent people

[domwilson]

thats my point exactly, if we choose to live in there country we have to live by there rules, but if they live in ours they dont seem to have to.
it seems more and more that we cant even voice our opinion.
i may seem to be generalising them but no more than them generalising us as the great satan,most of us are decent people

I think that's because we are "free" nations where religion (supposedly) and customs (generally) don't control the people. They, however, are not.

[ozzie-crawl]

i know some of you are religious,thats your faith and i am happy for those that have it. to me religion is run past its used by date.
to me religions were started as a way of controlling or policing people and communities from with in.
how do you control 100 people or 10,000 or 1,000,000 ?
you can rule by fear a police type dictator ship or you can give people a religion
were they have a belief, after a few generations its that ingrained into people there afraid to do wrong,they will dob in there sinning neighbour as they believe what there taught is true.
not saying all religions at there core are bad,more so there followers.
have beliefs or faith doesn't mean a person has to go to a church/synagogue
even the bible says as much
bit off topic :Peace_Sign:

[Flying Scotsman]

As a sheep chaser!!! Unfortunately religion breeds intolerance towards other "chosen" religions by a minority of followers and some of those are fanatics

Douggie

[Diegoboy]

When in Rome (france), do as the Romans...

[domwilson]

i know some of you are religious,thats your faith and i am happy for those that have it. to me religion is run past its used by date.
to me religions were started as a way of controlling or policing people and communities from with in.
how do you control 100 people or 10,000 or 1,000,000 ?
you can rule by fear a police type dictator ship or you can give people a religion
were they have a belief, after a few generations its that ingrained into people there afraid to do wrong,they will dob in there sinning neighbour as they believe what there taught is true.
not saying all religions at there core are bad,more so there followers.
have beliefs or faith doesn't mean a person has to go to a church/synagogue
even the bible says as much
bit off topic :Peace_Sign:

I think that is why we have a separation of church and state. So that religion cannot be used as a means of governing the people or that the people should follow a government approved religion. Unfortunately that line has been crossed by both sides a little too often or taken to the extremes. All too often it is man who makes mistakes and pronounce it as the will of God. Faith is not the enemy. It is the shortcomings of man that are. Just wait and see...Some other group will do a horrible act of cruelty and people will generalize and hate them too. The question is...who will they be?

[ozzie-crawl]

but douggie as long as you love thy fellow sheep and cause it no harm weres the problem

[ozzie-crawl]

I think that is why we have a separation of church and state. So that religion cannot be used as a means of governing the people or that the people should follow a government approved religion. Unfortunately that line has been crossed by both sides a little too often or taken to the extremes. All too often it is man who makes mistakes and pronounce it as the will of God. Faith is not the enemy. It is the shortcomings of man that are. Just wait and see...Some other group will do a horrible act of cruelty and people will generalize and hate them too. The question is...who will they be?

yes its seems every generation or so we have someone new to hate.
this may sound weird but if we were attacked by aliens trying to kill us all maybe we could stop hating each other and become one world defending our planet.
then again it maybe be politically incorrect to hate Klingon's

[Flying Scotsman]

but douggie as long as you love thy fellow sheep and cause it no harm weres the problem

To be honest, I am not a fan of women covering their faces, why are certiain Muslims so controlling of females in also many other areas and it is not an Islamic mandate to do this to show respect for their religion.

Douggie

[domwilson]

yes its seems every generation or so we have someone new to hate.
this may sound weird but if we were attacked by aliens trying to kill us all maybe we could stop hating each other and become one world defending our planet.
then again it maybe be politically incorrect to hate Klingon's

The Klingons are our allies. It's those Romulans you have to watch...:just-kidding:

[crabstick]

thats my point exactly, if we choose to live in there country we have to live by there rules, but if they live in ours they dont seem to have to.
it seems more and more that we cant even voice our opinion.
i may seem to be generalising them but no more than them generalising us as the great satan,most of us are decent people

Im with Ozzie, im sick of the politically correct crap. Abide by the law of the land you are in I reckon.

[AndyKunz]

Because we are a nation of tolerance?

Then they need to start practicing it when they get here, instead of trying to have their own laws (sharia) within another country.

England allows that, and from the friends I have there, it's not going well. They think they can start to extend it to those outside their community - and that's exactly what they want to do.

Andy

[ozzie-crawl]

have you seen them parading the streets of London with signs saying "England your 9/11 is coming"
a country offers them a better life and all they want to do is destroy it.
i do feel sorry for those that are Muslim and tolerant of other cultures/religions

[Doby]

Then its time for those Muslim's that are tolerent to stand up to the ones that aren't. They have to help fix their problem. Then maybe the rest of the world won't be so suspicious of them.

[ozzie-crawl]

unfortunately its bred into them. picture says it best

[AndyKunz]

Then its time for those Muslim's that are tolerent to stand up to the ones that aren't.

Then they'd be labelled by the media as "intolerant." And by their own as "traitors."

Andy

[ReddyWatts]

We tolerate a lot of other customs and beliefs here, but we have a reputation of being the "World Policeman". IMO, that is where the hate comes from.

[AndyKunz]

All the more reason to GET OUT OF THE !@)#!@#)!@*)#*!@) UNITED NATIONS!

Andy

[ozzie-crawl]

the hate was there before America existed
maybe the poms fault from the days of the crusades :tape:

[ReddyWatts]

I thought we went into Iraq without the united nations.

[ozzie-crawl]

thats because they wanted to be able to shoot back

[Flying Scotsman]

thats because they wanted to be able to shoot back

:rofl:

Douggie

[AndyKunz]

I thought we went into Iraq without the united nations.

We went in with the blessing of the governments of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, as well as with the support (manpower) of the French, German, Canadian, British, and Australians. It was/is hardly a unilateral operation.

Even Iraq is glad to have gotten rid of their arch-enemy Saddam Hussein (who caused them quite a bit of embarrassment). The Persians are the problem, not so much the Iraqi people.

Andy

[FighterCat57]

I've seen many women I wish would wear a burqa in public. Men for that matter too.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/13/french-parliament-approves-ban-face-veils/

Too bad they don't ban ugly.

[tharmer]

Imagine if they banned ugly, how many of us guys would just disppear. Far more than women I'd think.

-t

[domwilson]

Does anyone see the potential danger here? Sure, initially it targets the Muslims. But it also sets a very dangerous precedent for future laws regarding regulation of religious freedom. Let's just say I'm being paranoid....Just look at income taxes. Name one issue the government has not taken to the extremes for it's own benefits? You just can't target one group and hope and pray that it won't happen to you.

[Flying Scotsman]

Dom, I have to disagree the wearing of a burka etc is not religious passion, it is a way of putting women in a subservient role.. why do Islamic men not cover their faces and why in funeral processions for a leader there is not a woman to be seen anywhere?....my 2 cents.

Douggie

[Rumdog]

The problem is, making it LAW. People in the U.S. like to take pride in thier "freedom". These same people, some of them are the same that are for laws telling you what you can and cannot wear. If you live in a "free" country, you have the right to wear, or not wear whatever you want. Therefore, muslim women CAN make thier own choices. They don't need the gov't, or laws to tell them what they can or cannot wear. If it isn't a religious thing right now, or a law, they are doing it of thier own free will.

[Flying Scotsman]

There is no free country anywhere, we all live within the laws of that country, good or bad as they may be

Douggie

[Rumdog]

That's why I say "free". At some point, the lawmaking needs to stop. Laws don't ever go away. We keep accumulating more, and more till eventually you can't even rub one out in the privacy of your own home.

[Flying Scotsman]

Agreed, but the Islamic agenda of some fanatics worries me, as they have no time for anyone else unless they are a card carrying member of extreme Islamic viewpoints

Douggie

[Rumdog]

It worries me too. Making it a law that thier women cannot dress they way they want them to will only enrage them even more. Do you think they're gonna say, "oh geez, we'd better straighten up now."? It will do nothing more than antagonize an already hostile group of extremists.

[ozzie-crawl]

think there already pi$$ed off with us, doesnt matter what we do,unless we become muslim we are still the enemy.

[Rumdog]

So what's the point in the law? Please help me rationalize.

[Flying Scotsman]

Okay, now I am going to say something that is not politicaly correct. I am fed up with new immigrants and their followers that can not accept the language, laws of the country they have adopted...I DID.... and then try to bend their cultural values into mainstream thinking. Am I a racist... NO...it is the other camps that are racist.

Douggie

[Rumdog]

I do understand how you feel Douggie. It doesn't bother me at all. Not everyone agree's on this stuff. I for one like cultural diversity. Ther is no language law, nor should there be. I don't see them as mainstreaming so much as sticking with what they know and how they were raised. Without cultural/ethnic diversity we would all be the same damned vanilla plain bastards. What good is that? Nobody should be forced to conform. What would they be conforming to, since everyone is different in the first place. Not all immigrants legal or illegal are the bad peolpe some try to make them out to be. I have never in my life been negatively effected because of someone being from a different placde on the map. Some may try to tell me otherwise though.

[ozzie-crawl]

So what's the point in the law? Please help me rationalize.

its basically seen as a security risk.
there defence is its a religious belief,but its not in there koran.
my thoughts are,in there country with there laws a women has to wear it.
if another country bans it hows that any different.
you cannot have in your possession a christian bible in there country
or preach christianity but they can have there temples and preach there religion in every western society, they want us to except there laws but they wont except ours.
in Australia a lot of schools have stopped Christmas songs because it upsets Muslims.shops no longer play Christmas carols because they dont like it.
i to am sick of my country loosing its basic rites because of some minority group.
there intolerant of our way of life but want us to be tolerant of theres.
as far as i am concerned, if you live in a country you live by its laws,if you dont like those laws pi$$ off back home

[Flying Scotsman]

Not a problem and I do love cultural diversity, as I am part of it but we degress from the thread. The burka is rediculous and a way of controlling women....young Islamic girls do not have to wear it but their genitals may be removed, honour murders it goes on and on. I am sorry but where is the God that all religions profess to own in this equation???

Douggie

[Rumdog]

I agree with living by your countries laws. I don't see how this is a security risk though. I for one am tired of having christians trying to feed me all of thier B.S. on a day to day basis. MYOB and leave me the eff out of it.

[ozzie-crawl]

dont get me wrong i am not a christian,but if a christian gets caught preaching in there country they can kiss there a$$ good by.
as far as security, try walking in to a bank with a motor bike helmet on,thats rite you cant its against the law, try getting your license taken with your helmet on,no its against the law.
but hey if some group who has been treating women worse than there dogs says its a religious belief,along with mutilating there women's genitals,killing them if there raped
then hey who am i to say any thing,should just pull my head in and shut the f*** up and see if it goes away

[domwilson]

Some of the Iraqis and Iranians I know are christian. I've been told that there just not as many churches in their countries for christians. Haven't heard of any religious persecution of christians in their respective countries. But it's hard to beat the western media for telling the truth...:sarcasm1:

[Flying Scotsman]

Saudia Arabia??? Dom

Douggie

[domwilson]

Saudia Arabia??? Dom

Douggie

Well why didn't you say so? :just-kidding:
The guys who used to own the liquor store (Not to stereotype) that I use to frequent were from Saudi Arabia.
They just happened to be Christian. Nice people. But if people really want someone not to like....It's the Belgians....Isn't that where NATO is headquartered?

[ozzie-crawl]

thought it was the kiwis invading Australia :eek::tape::tape:

[crabstick]

thought it was the kiwis invading Australia :eek::tape::tape:

HAHA... Theres a few more i wish we could send over... most of the labour party would be a good start

[ozzie-crawl]

most of you guys are okay,its just the ones who bitch all the time how its better in new zealand but wont go back home and its only a short swim :thumbup:

[crabstick]

haha, those are the ones we dont want back..

[AndyKunz]

Some of the Iraqis and Iranians I know are christian. I've been told that there just not as many churches in their countries for christians. Haven't heard of any religious persecution of christians in their respective countries. But it's hard to beat the western media for telling the truth...:sarcasm1:

You won't find that in the regular media. My old pastor was in a car with several other pastors in Iraq. The car was attacked by two muslims on a motorcycle - one driving, one shooting. One pastor came home in a box, my pastor has a bullet lodged in his body (spinal, too dangerous to operate). Steve might have seen it in the local news - they were both relatively local to him.

I know of men and families (the cowards don't just target one person, they get his family too) who are maimed because of anti-Christian activity, even in "tolerant" Lebanon.

There are small communities of Christians in all those areas. They are required to live by the muslim law regarding dress, food, etc. There are quite a few Jews living in Iran, too, but they are barely tolerated and second class citizens. Why even one of Saddam's top henchmen was a "Christian" although I personally find it hard to reconcile that with true Christianity.

Yes, there are communities in those countries (there have to be, God says they'll be in every ethnicity), but they are often forced to keep it quiet simply in order to live at all.

Andy

[AndyKunz]

duplicate post.