New motor and ESC and timing

[hyrulejedi86]

NEW VIDEO ON POST 16


I just got this new motor for my Rio EP:

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6527

And I was wondering what timing I should have the ESC set on?

I am using the Ver. 2 Seaking 120A ESC. The timing settings are:
0 3.75 7.5 11.25 15 18.75 22.5 and 26.25 all in degrees



Also, when I release the throttle I hear a single "Ping" noise and I think it's coming from the motor, what is it?

Thanks for the help

[hyrulejedi86]

I have no idea where to start so I hope someone here knows.

[JimClark]

how bout the middle is usually a good place to start

[hyrulejedi86]

It's set in the middle by default, I just wanted to know if anyone knew the best place for it so that I don't overheat the motor or lose power.

[Diesel6401]

I'd imagine it's a 2 pole motor so timing should be low. 0 or 3.75, maybe even 7.5 at the top end.

[hyrulejedi86]

Actually, I thought it was a 4 pole motor. The description "B36-56-04-2600" from their website, means, according to what others have said, 36mm diamter--56mm long--4 poles--and--2600kv.

I could be mistaken I just wanted to throw that out there in case that helps.

[Diesel6401]

Actually, I thought it was a 4 pole motor. The description "B36-56-04-2600" from their website, means, according to what others have said, 36mm diamter--56mm long--4 poles--and--2600kv.

I could be mistaken I just wanted to throw that out there in case that helps.

2 or 4 poles timing should be about the same.

This may help:

Suggested Timing: 1° (2-4 poles motor) : 7° (6-8 poles motor) : 15° (10-14 poles motor) : 30° (10-14 poles motor)

[hyrulejedi86]

That does help! i'll have to change my timing over then.

Just to clarify what does lowering the timing do for the system?

[Diesel6401]

That does help! i'll have to change my timing over then.

Just to clarify what does lowering the timing do for the system?

Not fully sure, I think it changes the voltage frequency to the motor. If you would put a oscilloscope to the leads of the esc that go to the motor you would prob be able to see the difference in timing. I think brushless motors are actually DC, but kind of work like AC synchronous motors. I'm not 100% sure though, maybe a smarter member can shed light on this. Anybody here got the answer to this question?

[Fluid]

I'd imagine it's a 2 pole motor so timing should be low. 0 or 3.75...
I'm not certain where this bad info keeps coming from, but it is a very poor idea to run any BL motor on zero degrees timing. It will run hot and with reduced efficiency.

Five to ten degrees is a good range for a 2-pole motor in the average sport boat, but the 'best' timing depends on the motor winding and the load. The more turns and the higher the load, the more timing advance is required. FWIW I ran 20+ degrees in my old Feigao-powered SAW record holder, less was slower. I had 90+ mph passes on 12 NiMH cells with that rigger.....

Schulze, who knows a bit about BL motors and controllers, recommends their "soft" timing as optimum for two-pole Hacker and Lehner motors, and "very soft" for low amperage applications. In Schulze-speak, very soft is ~5-10, soft is ~10-15, hard is ~15-20 and very hard is ~20+ degrees.



.

[Diesel6401]

I'm not certain where this bad info keeps coming from, but it is a very poor idea to run any BL motor on zero degrees timing. It will run hot and with reduced efficiency.

Five to ten degrees is a good range for a 2-pole motor in the average sport boat, but the 'best' timing depends on the motor winding and the load. The more turns and the higher the load, the more timing advance is required. FWIW I ran 20+ degrees in my old Feigao-powered SAW record holder, less was slower. I had 90+ mph passes on 12 NiMH cells with that rigger.....


.

And that's y I asked the older wiser crowd to jump in. Maybe 0 isn't the best, but I wouldn't consider all the information I stated as"bad", I'm just relaying info that I read.
The info is coming from mulitple esc suggestions, I didn't make it up. I read that in the etti esc section on motor timing. I read esc info on hacker esc which states the following. Maybe car esc's are different not sure.
* 2-5 degrees, recommend for 2-pole brushless motors (which I thought it was a 2 pole first)
* 10 degrees, harder for 2 pole, best for 4 pole (so if it is a 4 pole and not a 2 like a thought, this would be better)
* 18 degrees, 6 pole motors

Here's the link for that http://rcnuts.com/Files/HackerCarESCmanual.pdf (page 3)
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=etti-esc-race-150-opto

[Fluid]

See edits on post above. I'll believe Schulze and my own experiences before I believe ETTI....appologies to the ETTI lovers here, sorry. :lol:




.

[Diesel6401]

See edits on post above. I'll believe Schulze and my own experiences before I believe ETTI....appologies to the ETTI lovers here, sorry. :lol:




.

The hacker esc, states kinda of similar to the ETTI information. You have a lot of experience so what works for your in your testing maybe different than what esc makers suggest. I also edited my post to add additional information.

[Diesel6401]

And that's y I asked the older wiser crowd to jump in. Maybe 0 isn't the best, but I wouldn't consider all the information I stated as"bad", I'm just relaying info that I read.
The info is coming from mulitple esc suggestions, I didn't make it up. I read that in the etti esc section on motor timing. I read esc info on hacker esc which states the following. Maybe car esc's are different not sure.
* 2-5 degrees, recommend for 2-pole brushless motors (which I thought it was a 2 pole first)
* 10 degrees, harder for 2 pole, best for 4 pole (so if it is a 4 pole and not a 2 like a thought, this would be better)
* 18 degrees, 6 pole motors

Here's the link for that http://rcnuts.com/Files/HackerCarESCmanual.pdf (page 3)
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=etti-esc-race-150-opto


This is from Hifei:
Option 1: Low advance timing
0°~15°
Recommended for more lower pole count motors. Gives more power and
slightly less efficient.

Option 2: middle advance timing
5 °~ 20 °
Recommended for most motors .Gives a good balance of power and efficiency.

Option 3: High advance timing
15° ~ 30 °
Recommended for most of higher pole count motors

Option4:Auto(default)
Recommended for most of all brushless motors.

[Diesel6401]

Actually, I thought it was a 4 pole motor. The description "B36-56-04-2600" from their website, means, according to what others have said, 36mm diamter--56mm long--4 poles--and--2600kv.

I could be mistaken I just wanted to throw that out there in case that helps.

The "4" in the description represents the number of turns.

[hyrulejedi86]

So, I got a metal prop, assembled my new drive system in my Rio EP and ran it this past weekend.

I have some video of those runs here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQJjQSGIhQk

2600kv turnigy 540 size motor
120 Seaking ESC
5000mAh 3s Turnigy
38 x 55 metal prop.

[Cynicism]

Looks nice, do you have any photos of the interior? Also how hard was it to set up?

[hyrulejedi86]

It has taken a while to get to this point. I've changed out the original motor with the one in this thread and gotten new couplers and a new ESC but It's work well now. I will have to take a picture sometime here and post it up soon. Perhaps tomorrow.

[hyrulejedi86]

Here is that picture of the inside of the boat.

[shannon87]

hey hi rule my name is shannon i noticed your using a similar combo that im going to use in the near future just the 90 amp seaking and the seaking 3060 kv motor and im also going to use the same dimention prop as you.

I was wondering if your boat is torqueing to the right, and if so how did you go about combating that as some people recommended changing the drive to an adjustable stinger drive and off set rudder have you made any of these changes.

[hyrulejedi86]

I definetly have torqueing to the right and haven't found a good way to remedy it. I have only put the battery on the left to help offset it which helps but it doesn't solve it. I also have used a 3 blade prop once which stabilized it alot but it had a drop in speed from it.

[shannon87]

thanks hirule, yer sounds like im in for some fun lol.

Anyways a few members on here suggested goin with an adjustable strut set up im thinking of going with an sv27 strut as its well in my budget and it looks cool and is adjustible,

anyways i hope all goes well wih your rio if you come up witth a good solution it would be good to know thanks p.s your set up looks awesome.