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forescott
06-11-2010, 07:51 PM
I just installed a wire drive setup from Jeff Wholt, and thought I would document the installation. First I removed the old flex shafts and motors. I am using collets instead of couplers so you need to open up the center hole in the motor mounts. I used a battery powered dremmel tool to open up the holes. The second pic shows how to remove and install the motor screws by pushing a piece of silicone tubing over the screw and spinning it by hand.(this works really well)

forescott
06-11-2010, 07:54 PM
Next I installed the couplers onto the motor shafts. One thing I found out is you cannot use any washers on your motor mount screws. There is barely enough room for the collet between the two motor mount screws.

forescott
06-11-2010, 07:56 PM
Here is a pic of the wire drive compared to the stock cable

forescott
06-11-2010, 08:01 PM
This is my first experience with wire drive and as you can see the wire is much smaller in diameter than the flex cable, so there is a lot of slop in the stock stuffing tube. It just so happens that the stock antennae straw fits snugly into the stock stuffing tube, and the wire fits snugly into the antennae tube! What luck!!

forescott
06-11-2010, 08:05 PM
I'm not sure if using a teflon tube is correct for a wire drive system. I'm pretty sure you're wire is supposed to fit directly into the brass tubing, but I'm a little limited with the stock stuffing tube.

forescott
06-11-2010, 08:08 PM
Here is a pic with it all together. I used plenty of speed grease in between the antennae and stuffing tube, and between the stuffing tube and brass/aluminum tube as well.

forescott
06-11-2010, 08:10 PM
One thing that is a real pain is tightening the coupler. As you can see by the pic, its really tough to get a wrench on the main body of the collet with the motor screws in the way. Its possible,but a real bear!

forescott
06-11-2010, 08:11 PM
Have'nt got it out on the water yet for a test but I'll be sure to post some results later. :thumbup1:

Jeff Wohlt
06-11-2010, 10:21 PM
Good job, one thing is that wire can tolerate a little more room in the stuffing tube. I have seen some run only a short piece thru the hull with open wire...They do not whip around like a cable.

So you probably could have stayed with the stock stuffing tube and be just fine.

Damn...got to be a better way on the couplers...that is a bear. The coupler doe not have to go all the way on to the shaft...maybe half is fine.

forescott
06-12-2010, 12:04 AM
Good job, one thing is that wire can tolerate a little more room in the stuffing tube. I have seen some run only a short piece thru the hull with open wire...They do not whip around like a cable.

So you probably could have stayed with the stock stuffing tube and be just fine.

Damn...got to be a better way on the couplers...that is a bear. The coupler doe not have to go all the way on to the shaft...maybe half is fine.
Wasnt sure about the stuffing tube. Thought I'd better be safe than sorry. Actually the coupler is already about 2/3 the way up the shaft. Had to pull the coupler away from the motor to be able to get a wrench on it to tighten. The ekos motor mount is pretty thick.

Team Jericho
06-16-2010, 09:54 PM
Great work and ideas! I am just about to order shaft drives from Jeff so this really is helpful :) But I am not sure if I want to go with the flex couplers...

PS: Can you please send me the link for those outlets you have to use the cooling on the motor mounts? I think you mentioned it on another forum thread but just can't find it again.. I really want to use this motor mount cooling on my EKOS and would like to order the right size outlets from OSE.

Thanks again!

Team Jericho
06-16-2010, 10:00 PM
And your idea about using hose to help grasp the mounting screws on motor installs..ingenious!

forescott
06-17-2010, 01:52 AM
Great work and ideas! I am just about to order shaft drives from Jeff so this really is helpful :) But I am not sure if I want to go with the flex couplers...

PS: Can you please send me the link for those outlets you have to use the cooling on the motor mounts? I think you mentioned it on another forum thread but just can't find it again.. I really want to use this motor mount cooling on my EKOS and would like to order the right size outlets from OSE.

Thanks again!

They are 4mm. I have straight fittings from e-bay, but ose sells the 90 degree ones that work just as well. http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=etti-a030

forescott
06-17-2010, 01:53 AM
The collets work really well too. I have them both.

forescott
06-17-2010, 01:54 AM
And your idea about using hose to help grasp the mounting screws on motor installs..ingenious!

I cant take credit for that one. Another ose forum members idea. Does work excellent though!

Team Jericho
06-17-2010, 10:40 AM
Thanks. I have 3 of those outlets already from OSE and need only one more.

scubasteve95
06-28-2010, 11:01 PM
i just installed jeffs wire drives and there great,
only problem i,m having is the water is coming in alot faster with the
wire insted of the cable...any ideas or help would be super
ps
i told you guy those collets were tough...nice ..but ....what a pain
switched to jeffs set screw collets...much nicer and easy...
i did tap out the set screws to get 1 size larger...my man thumbs keep
friggen up the tiny allen heads.

forescott
06-29-2010, 12:06 AM
i just installed jeffs wire drives and there great,
only problem i,m having is the water is coming in alot faster with the
wire insted of the cable...any ideas or help would be super


Same with mine. I lube the wire with tons of grease but still getting water up the stuffing tubes. Havent figured out a fix yet.

Jeff Wohlt
06-29-2010, 12:47 AM
Smaller teflon tubing will fix that. Let me see if I can find some to fit the tubes.
I have also glued a piece of shrink on the stuffing tube and insert wire then shrink the tubing around the wire...but I do not see you being able to do that.

Simon.O.
06-29-2010, 05:48 AM
Let me see if this comes out well in a typed format.

I run a lot of wires, in fact I only run wires and that is one each for 8 hulls, with the exception of the big cat that has two.
I use .062 wire shafts and have stuff tubes from 1/8" up to 3/16"

On a couple of the hulls I have had water enter via the stuff tube.
Here is how I fix it.
Reduce the stuff tube dia at one end by using a short length of smaller dia tube soldered into the stuff tube. I have done this at the motor end on some hulls and at the outside end on other hulls.
If this is not enough then in goes the heavy oil.
If that fails then on goes a small bit of heat shrink.

Just a few ideas :banana:

Team Jericho
06-29-2010, 11:54 AM
I am waiting for Jeff's piano wire shafts to arrive too :) I read on the forum of one guy who used antenna tube inside the drive shaft tube. This is co-incidentally the perfect fit apparently! But I am not sure about the pastic of antenna tube? Is it also teflon or does it really matter? Can the antenna tubing take the high rpm of the shafts?

Jeff Wohlt
06-29-2010, 04:26 PM
It will handle it. Anything to fit inside is great. Lube well. Also, I put the stub in a drill and sand the wire with 320 and 400 and then I polish with flitz and it is smooth.

forescott
06-29-2010, 08:04 PM
I am waiting for Jeff's piano wire shafts to arrive too :) I read on the forum of one guy who used antenna tube inside the drive shaft tube. This is co-incidentally the perfect fit apparently! But I am not sure about the pastic of antenna tube? Is it also teflon or does it really matter? Can the antenna tubing take the high rpm of the shafts?
That was me. But I'm still getting a little water inside.

scubasteve95
06-29-2010, 09:41 PM
That was me. But I'm still getting a little water inside.

forescott,
got some good info from you in the past so maybe i can help...
searched 4 different forums and got this.
take a small piece of fuel tube and fit it over the stuffing tube
and over the wire drive just enough to fit smooth about 1/16" to 1/8"
over wire (you may need a small o-ring or cut a small piece of the fuel tube and put it over the the piece on the wire side to make a good water tight fit)then fill the tube with grease..problem fixed and you
will still reap the benifit of the less friction wire drive...
no extra stuffing just teflon tube the ekos came with...hope this helps

scubasteve95
06-30-2010, 01:47 PM
here are some pics of the fix..
cut tube to size,use a small pair of needle nose and
just slide it over stuffing tube,insert wire almost into coupler
then slide small o-ring or cut tube onto wire
insert wire into coupler and then with two small picks or screw drivers
work o-ring over tube...done

forescott
07-01-2010, 09:16 PM
Have you tested this ?? I've heard this many times but never tried it. Did it work for you?

scubasteve95
07-04-2010, 12:59 AM
well ... yes and no..:confused1:
right side sealed up tight as can be..no water at all...perfect as planed
left side..not so much,still leaks and i cant get it to stop...:thumbsdown:
i'm still on it ..stiffer tube or o-ring will do the trick i hope...

forescott
07-04-2010, 10:46 AM
Hmmm... I might give it a try. I'm just getting a tiny amount of water after about 10-min. And it doesnt splatter all over the components, so I can live with that.

Jeff Wohlt
07-04-2010, 11:45 AM
As I told Steve, Watch anything larger than the stinger OD. Like the washer or prop hub as this will push water in. Wires will not suck up water like a cable but make sure it is all sealed at the hull. Also, you do not need to allow much gap for the wire at the drive dog....just a mm is plenty.

I use shrink and stretch the stuffint tube end out with hemostates and ca them on the stuffing tube then install waire and use a lighter to shrink it around the wire...problem is with these is there is so little stuffing tube. Probably if it were me I would remove the stuffing tube support and make a new one and move it back so I had more stuffing tube exposed to work with. Actually I would probably install new stuffing tubes to take good teflon we stock and get rid of that close crap.

scubasteve95
07-04-2010, 03:03 PM
stinger on left side sits lower then stinger on right side
just a mm but enough to leave a very small gap,gunna seal it up and try
on monday

FighterCat57
07-04-2010, 04:05 PM
Just an FYI- I run a pair of wire drives, with no liner and there is NO water seepage.

I'm building another EKOS bare hull, this exact same method. I would chase the stingers for leaks... something is pressurizing your drive tubes if you're getting water in the hull. My EKOS doesn't leak water either.

VIKOS
07-04-2010, 08:40 PM
I get a lil leakage don't think it's the shafts though. Think it's the fake exhaust where the hull and metal meet. Slight gaps. Silicone is an easy fix to this. So removing the antenna is a no no then. Hmm

FighterCat57
07-04-2010, 09:34 PM
I get a lil leakage don't think it's the shafts though. Think it's the fake exhaust where the hull and metal meet. Slight gaps. Silicone is an easy fix to this. So removing the antenna is a no no then. Hmm

Yeah, I had to do some sealing around them as well. I also had to seal the antenna mount and the steering boot. The fiberglass was cracked allowing water to seep in around the boot.

Next time I pull it off the shelf, I'll get some more photos and update my EKOS thread with all the little stuff that helped.

BTW- the hull I just sent back to Venom had really messed up exhaust tubes, they were crooked and there were some big gaps around them.

scubasteve95
07-04-2010, 11:17 PM
fightercat57,
can i get so pics of the stingers were they meet the hull on your ekos.
i think this is were all my issuses are.

FighterCat57
07-05-2010, 08:55 AM
Walk through the stinger maintenance in the manual. Also check to make sure the ~1/2" threaded nuts are snug on the stinger mount and there is no gap between the prop dog and the stinger and you have teflon washers in between. (gap is only for cable stretch when using cables)

Hope this helps.

I should be able to get some photos of the KOS later this week. Its a bit buried at the moment.

VIKOS
07-05-2010, 12:39 PM
I just checked my stinger mount nuts..one was backed out about 7-8 turns lol put some locktite and screwed her back in to place...no issues or problems. Well gona run her today and take some video also. Should be fun and intresting since its a cove like in the marina so its even smoother out there than at the beach that I usually go to. Still saltwater though should be fun and intresting.

scubasteve95
07-05-2010, 02:05 PM
ok,
heres the deal...stinger @ base were it meets the hull
was the problem...thanx jeff.
no water..sealed it up with permatex gasket maker and its beautiful,
going to do the other side just for the heck of it....and im going to take off the
tube and o-ring on the stuffing tube ....not needed...after i fixed
it the right way.........ran 15-20 mins only got a few drops, thank f'en god.
just a little strange it started after i installed the wire drives..just bogus timing.....
it sent me in the wrong direction for the cure.....thanx again for all the insight.

forescott
07-05-2010, 02:08 PM
I guess I'll check my stingers too!

scubasteve95
07-05-2010, 02:11 PM
Walk through the stinger maintenance in the manual. Also check to make sure the ~1/2" threaded nuts are snug on the stinger mount and there is no gap between the prop dog and the stinger and you have teflon washers in between. (gap is only for cable stretch when using cables)

Hope this helps.

I should be able to get some photos of the KOS later this week. Its a bit buried at the moment.

fighter ,
thanx for the help but i do not need the pics now...
all better.....

scubasteve95
07-05-2010, 02:14 PM
I guess I'll check my stingers too!

glad you saw this before next run...it will help if not cure all our woes

VIKOS
07-06-2010, 08:05 AM
yeah when I looked under there and saw a screw backed out I was like what hell lol locktite and in she goes no more issues..and yes alot less water in the rear after runs...I'd say 2 teaspoons less of water..which is comfort on the electronics...don't know why they didn't make a radio box for this thing instead of open hull...unless there waterproof which I highly doubt those ESC are...or motor and reciever in a balloon lol!!!!

forescott
07-11-2010, 01:16 PM
Wire drive update! I felt some friction in the stuffing tube of one side of the ekos wire drive today. Pulled the shaft out for lube and the antennae straw that I installed from a previous post to take up some of the space in the stock teflon tube was stuck to the drive wire. It looks like it got hot enough to adhere itself to the wire and I had to cut it to get it off. Apparently plastic is not a good substitute for teflon. So the antennae tube was spinning inside the stock teflon tube. There wasnt a whole lot of resistance when I spun the prop by hand. But enough for me to investigate. Sorry for the bad recommendation! Don't try this at home! :thumbdown:

Jeff Wohlt
07-11-2010, 04:16 PM
If someone would give me the ID of the stuffint tube in fraction and MM I can find some new stuff for wires.

FighterCat57
07-11-2010, 04:50 PM
Mine are 4.82 ID, 5.55 OD

Jeff Wohlt
07-12-2010, 12:16 AM
Let me see what I can find. I thought it was metric.

forescott
07-12-2010, 12:54 AM
I just ran the ekos again today after removing the antennae straws and got 57.7 on the gps. And get this....Not a drop of water! Go figure!!

forescott
07-12-2010, 02:16 AM
Heres a vid!

LqO2_ubPUvU

VIKOS
07-12-2010, 09:15 AM
You shouldn't need stuffing tube with wire drive like stated. Way to much space. Best bet would be a grease needle coupled to a gun and inject inside stinger. That should work great. Flexsgafts always get grease skimmed off because of bearings. Not good for lubrication.

Jeff Wohlt
07-12-2010, 10:45 AM
The stuffing tubes alonw without liner may be a bit large. At least run the teflon in them. This will keep the wire from touching the edge of the tube that can cut it...we have seen that happen already.

scubasteve95
07-12-2010, 02:41 PM
I just ran the ekos again today after removing the antennae straws and got 57.7 on the gps. And get this....Not a drop of water! Go figure!!

SWEET..........
you got that baby dialed..
no water,you say..did you seal up the stingers or no?
9xl with cf-40s...wonder what the 10xl with the cf-40s would
top out at?

FighterCat57
07-12-2010, 05:09 PM
I just ran the ekos again today after removing the antennae straws and got 57.7 on the gps. And get this....Not a drop of water! Go figure!!

Now that's more like it! Nice job! :thumbup:

forescott
07-12-2010, 08:06 PM
You shouldn't need stuffing tube with wire drive like stated. Way to much space. Best bet would be a grease needle coupled to a gun and inject inside stinger. That should work great. Flexsgafts always get grease skimmed off because of bearings. Not good for lubrication.

I was getting a bit of water before. Must have come from somewhere else?

forescott
07-12-2010, 08:08 PM
SWEET..........
you got that baby dialed..
no water,you say..did you seal up the stingers or no?
9xl with cf-40s...wonder what the 10xl with the cf-40s would
top out at?

My stingers were tight. I'd guess low 50's on the 10xl.

Simon.O.
07-13-2010, 06:13 AM
I may be able to add something here as I run a lot of wire drives.
I have very few stuff tubes that are the same.

The tubes on my big twin cat are hand bent 3/16 k&s brass with a length of antenna tube that runs from near the coupler to the exit point of the tube at the sponson rear.
The 'plastic' tube is retained at the inboard end by 3 layers of heat shrink tube, it floats for the rest of the length.

At the rear it moves as much as I change the strut settings. This is still an ongoing process as I have yet to find the sweet spot.

For some of my smaller cats I still use the antenna tube to assist with wire alignment to the motor and to help dampen the wire resonance (sp)
It has proven to be very effective for me.

This may help:thumbup1:

VIKOS
07-13-2010, 02:53 PM
only 50 with the 10xl's on 4s or 3s...I might go with the 9xl's and run 4s in them and be happy with it doing 60+ maybe crossing fingers..with 36mm props and thats it..5S is kinda pushing it but don't see why these motors wouldn't handle it with any issues.