New Rudder and Water Pick-ups for EKOS...

[Team Jericho]

I am running my new EKOS with 3S 4800 Ma 25 C's, and Venom machined 36mm props. She runs great and my nitro buddies raising their eyebrows at the pond yesterday!
One problem I have with the EKOS is the water pick-up system it uses, quite flimsy as it is, intake tubes come loose, slippage etc. Looking for a better solution/kit would be awesome. Has anyone an idea for that?
In the meantime I want to use the plugged water pick-up in the rudder as an extra source of cooling, in preparation for the 4S Lipos I have on order ( I expect the standard 2850 motors to burn out soon anyway). Does anyone have experience with modifying existing water intake system on the EKOS?
Thanks guys! :buttrock:

[forescott]

I installed these! Get em here at ose. A tight fit though!

[Team Jericho]

Well done! But how did you cut the openings in hull so precisely? Not sure if I am at that level yet...and do you keep the stardard rudder mechanism then and just take off the flimsy intake tubes? Thanks for your tips.

[Igoreski]

OSE sells the 4mm fitting for a couple bucks and it works good,I cool my ESCs with the rudder and the motors with the stock ones.Each one has its own exit port on the hull so you know the water is flowing.I got those fittings there also.Forescott has done it the best way,but like you I was worried about wrecking the hull so I got 3 different size brass tubes and made the part that goes into the water 1 size smaller and longer than stock.I used the larger than stock tube to make collars to hold the system in place.Once mocked up I soldered the tubes together with regular solder and now the tubes are tight.If you need to remove you will have to use a solder gun or micro torch.I used larger water line through the whole system.

[forescott]

Well done! But how did you cut the openings in hull so precisely? Not sure if I am at that level yet...and do you keep the stardard rudder mechanism then and just take off the flimsy intake tubes? Thanks for your tips.

I set the pick-ups inside the hull where I wanted them to go. Marked one of the corners with a sharpie. Then drilled a tiny hole through the hull from the inside. Then I cut a thick piece of paper the exact size of the square hole to be removed, flipped the boat over and lined it up with the hole I drilled(making sure the template was squared up with the sponsons) and traced the outside of the template with a sharp pencil. The rest was easy. Just took a dremmel tool with the right bit to grind out the fiberglass up to the template marks. Then just drop the pick-up in from the inside and spread epoxy around the top and sides. Its kinda tedious, but worth the effort.

[forescott]

I removed the stock brass water pick-up tubes and filled the water line holes with epoxy.

[forescott]

OSE sells the 4mm fitting for a couple bucks and it works good,I cool my ESCs with the rudder and the motors with the stock ones.Each one has its own exit port on the hull so you know the water is flowing.I got those fittings there also.Forescott has done it the best way,but like you I was worried about wrecking the hull so I got 3 different size brass tubes and made the part that goes into the water 1 size smaller and longer than stock.I used the larger than stock tube to make collars to hold the system in place.Once mocked up I soldered the tubes together with regular solder and now the tubes are tight.If you need to remove you will have to use a solder gun or micro torch.I used larger water line through the whole system.
Igoreski, how do you like those 442's?? Mine are being worked on by eggneg as we speak. Are yours de-toungued?

[tiqueman]

Forescott, My 32" HOTR, (pretty much identical hull) went 3mph faster from stock 442 to my Egneg worked, detongued and cupped 442s :thumbup1: Im .2 off 70mph. Hope yours are as succesful. Chuck does great work.

Also, I used the same pickups (aluminum thru hull from OSE), but used a single on each side rather than the dual. Just as said, tedious, but well worth the effort.

[Team Jericho]

Thanks for all the ideas guys. I also want to use the rudder intake(that is not being used stock) for extra cooling in my plans..does OSE sell that one little fitting (don't know what its called) that screws into the top of rudder where hose is normally attached?

[Team Jericho]

Hey Igoeski, I like your cooling solution and just saw the pic of your set-up. Cool, I also want to use the rudder intake... Can you please send me the part nr. or link at OSE for that fitting on top of the rudder blade where the hose attaches? I wish to stick with the stock tubing size for now though...

PS: Gettting a custom paint job in the coming weeks for my EKOS because I already crashed on a rock racing with my brother, should be cool. I will put up pics when the work is done.

[forescott]

Here is the link for water fittings....http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=etti-a030

[forescott]

I personally am not a big fan of turn fin style water pick-ups. They tend to lose pressure when you turn the opposite way of the inlet hole. I would use the turn fin pick-up seperate for the motor mount cooling, that way if pressure is lost you wont lose all your cooling to the motors.

[forescott]

Forescott, My 32" HOTR, (pretty much identical hull) went 3mph faster from stock 442 to my Egneg worked, detongued and cupped 442s :thumbup1: Im .2 off 70mph. Hope yours are as succesful. Chuck does great work.

Also, I used the same pickups (aluminum thru hull from OSE), but used a single on each side rather than the dual. Just as said, tedious, but well worth the effort.
Im gettin 55mph out of the feigao 9xl's(2612kv) on 4s, and a pair of cf-40's. But the prop hubs are wider than the drive dogs so I dont really like the fit. Wow, 55 looks insanely fast to me, 70mph must be soo close to blowover on that hull!:eek:

[Jeff Wohlt]

Might try to taper that hubs down...easy to do with a file.

[forescott]

Yeah, I have a couple of props from chuck already. He does such a nice job. Its not even worth it to me to do my own. I dont really enjoy prop work!:ThumbsDown01:

[Team Jericho]

Thanks for the link Forescott, much appreciated! I am waiting for Venom to confirm the exact size of the stock cooling hoses on the EKOS before I order all parts for my cooling project. I am thinkinf of doing after after the I get the new paint job done this month.

[Team Jericho]

Those props look good too. I am running now with the red Venom 3 blade machined props 36 mm. Who is Chuck? Maybe I could order those props machined and balanced by him one day...I have no cavitation problems but looks like those 2 bladed props might be even better?

[tiqueman]

Im gettin 55mph out of the feigao 9xl's(2612kv) on 4s, and a pair of cf-40's. But the prop hubs are wider than the drive dogs so I dont really like the fit. Wow, 55 looks insanely fast to me, 70mph must be soo close to blowover on that hull!:eek:

10XLs on 6S. And it ran great until I scuffed the hull. Then it completely lost its ride attitude and wants to ride way light and blow over. I discoverd this after I put it in the water, hit the throttles, got up to maybe 45 or 50 and she went over. Cracked the hull, fixed it and it took stinger adjustment to bring her back down.... and lost 2 mph... :thumbsdown: I havent been back out to test since.


Those props look good too. I am running now with the red Venom 3 blade machined props 36 mm. Who is Chuck? Maybe I could order those props machined and balanced by him one day...I have no cavitation problems but looks like those 2 bladed props might be even better?

Chuck is 'Egneg" on the forums... his last name backwards. :smile:

[forescott]

Those props look good too. I am running now with the red Venom 3 blade machined props 36 mm. Who is Chuck? Maybe I could order those props machined and balanced by him one day...I have no cavitation problems but looks like those 2 bladed props might be even better?
I have the venom 3-blades too. In both 32 and 36mm. They are excellent props. I just like the performance of a 2-blade prop better.

[forescott]

hmmmmm.... didnt realize eggneg was chucks last name backwards. Good eyes!:doh:

[forescott]

Thanks for the link Forescott, much appreciated! I am waiting for Venom to confirm the exact size of the stock cooling hoses on the EKOS before I order all parts for my cooling project. I am thinkinf of doing after after the I get the new paint job done this month.
Stock coolong lines are 7/32 outside dia. I switched to 1/4 outside dia. They still fit over the stock fittings and i put a small ziptie over the connections for a little extra insurance.

[Team Jericho]

Thanks for that info Forescott. Having big problems with my EKOS now and Venom not honouring the 90 warranty on their website, saying it is now 30 days and that they have not updated their website yet...see my other thread.

[forescott]

Thanks for that info Forescott. Having big problems with my EKOS now and Venom not honouring the 90 warranty on their website, saying it is now 30 days and that they have not updated their website yet...see my other thread.
Ive read em all and been there already. Much happier now that Ive given up the stock electronics. I use my venom motors for paperweights!

[Team Jericho]

Hi Igoresky...I am trying to find the best height for the stock water pick-up tubes. I am instaling a new set now and am worried about them being too high and not getting enough water into them, or too low and creating too much drag which will affect speed. How low do you have yours? In your picture is is hard to see and I would really appreciate knowing from your experience with your EKOS. Thanks again for any help, tips, and pics.

[forescott]

I lowered mine far enough down to where I had about 3/8 inch sticking above the top of the rudder bracket. I think the tubes are too high from the factory. Set your boat on a flat surface. let the tubes rest on the flat surface, then mark the tubes where they touch the rudder bracket. Then loower them another 1/4 inch.

[Igoreski]

I put them level with the bottom of the drives so they have water all the time,now they are the next size smaller than stock for less drag.Now I have a new problem,the boat is way too fast for anything but glass.I hit a small wake from a jet ski and did a 52mph submarine,lost the boat for 10 seconds then it bobed up.The hull is busted in two spots on the sponsons. 12" is the worst one.The Octura X442s are super fast.The motors draw 80amps for a fraction of a second and go down to the low 50s but I cant hold it wide open for more than a few seconds with any chop.I went through most of a battery set before I crashed bad and my highest temp was 118deg F and the average was 112.My peak amps were 112 when I went under water wide open.It is fun to watch your run on the data logger,I can see all my blow overs on the screen.I am pulling close to 28000rpm at my peak speeds.I was at 0 deg prop angle and I will try -5deg next time so it will not blow over so easy.What angle are you guys running.

[Team Jericho]

Thanks. These are pics of my pick ups and new replacement ...the new rudder kit arrived and the pick-ups are even shorter than what was on the boat! Venom are going to send a replacement kit for the replacement when they have them in stock again...with the new pick-up tubes, there is no chance they would even be long enough to rest on the a flat surface, never mind another 1/4 inch. So basically these tubes should be a bit below the lowest level of the sponsons, right?

[Team Jericho]

I am running my drives at - 2 but am still at lower speeds with stock motors and the red Venom 36 mm machined props.

[Alfa Spirit]

A slim rudder and water inlet under the hull

http://www.mbp-rc.de/Mono-2-Ruder-BB

[Igoreski]

Yes you want them low,at prop shaft level.Just go to the hobby store and bring your brass tube with and buy a smaller one and put it inside your stock one with solder or epoxy and set them level to whatever height you want to try.I have 4 exit fittings out my hull and the water squirts out a long way out all 4.Bad news I wrecked my hull,looks like I almost ripped off one of the sponsons in my hunt for red october!!! Now I have to get another hull,I wonder if the HOTR cat hulls are made better or if they are just a unpainted version of the EKOS hull.

[Team Jericho]

Looks like Venom will send me a new stock engine at half price( about $25)...will take a few weeks to get here in Canada due to customs. So what motors are you guys running again? Feigao? I can order these at OSE right? I might as well just get 'er done and have quality engines. 9XLs, 10XLs? What do you think is best? I want to run a reliable boat with my 3S for the race course (min. 6 laps of a 3/4 size official size) but also want to be able to use some 4Ss or 5Ss from time to time when I really need that top end speed!

[Team Jericho]

Sorry to hear about your submarine trials Igoresky! Too bad...time for a new hull then. I was looking at those cats at Hobby King, these have everything but radio and if you put the boat in your shopping cart, you see a huge difference in price! :) Check it out..buyers are really impressed with the quality of the finish and glass.

[Igoreski]

I am running the 8XLs on 3s and they are too much power for this boat and prop set up.I wish I would have got 9XLs and ran them on 3s it still would run in the 50s and not be so ballistic.Now it comes out of the water too harsh and fast and you have to roll on the throttle or it will take off.These motors will push it past 60 but the hull probably will come apart and send several hundred dollars of electrics to the bottom.This EKOS project has been fun but very $$$$ I am worried about running all my data logger gear in here for a top speed run and flushing it down the drain because I now use it in all my RC stuff for testing.

[Team Jericho]

Cool...so I should chose between the 9XLs or8 XLs. I also crashed my hull, repaired it, and will probably order a new EKOS hull from Venom end of June. Do the stock 60 A. watercooled ESCs handle these 9 and 8XLs, or does this mean I have to get new ESCs too?

[Igoreski]

I never smoked my ESCs but I pulled them and put in 120amp seaking after I saw the amp peaks I was getting.The 120s run real cool around 100F and the battery packs at 88F.I think the 120s are good for a 240 spike.I think if you ran 9XLs on 3s you would have much less of a chance of damage all around.I forgot to mention to check your windshield,I blew mine out on the corner last weekend.The Spektrum MR3000 Rx is great.No waterproofing needed dual path antennas and more range than you would ever need.It has dual speed control and steering inputs.This was $ well spent,I hate putting my Rx in a balloon and this thing will work submerged.

[Team Jericho]

Thanks for that advise! I think I will get the 9XLs and, then possibly switch everything up next month when I get the new ECOS hull so that I have a "purdy and mint" ECOS to race with 9XLs on 3s (need to get 6 good reliable laps done for club racing), and then will give the old hull a drag boat paint job and eventually put something crazy fast like the 10XLs or 11 XLs?? then with 120 amp ESCs, 2 bladed props, piano wire shafts etc. Decision, decisions!! LOL Man this FE boat thing is addictive :)

[tiqueman]

Yes you want them low,at prop shaft level.Just go to the hobby store and bring your brass tube with and buy a smaller one and put it inside your stock one with solder or epoxy and set them level to whatever height you want to try.I have 4 exit fittings out my hull and the water squirts out a long way out all 4.Bad news I wrecked my hull,looks like I almost ripped off one of the sponsons in my hunt for red october!!! Now I have to get another hull,I wonder if the HOTR cat hulls are made better or if they are just a unpainted version of the EKOS hull.

FYI. The HOTR hulls are very thin and flimsy. They need much reinforcment added. The Skunk 2 cats are very well built and exactly the same hull (water side) as the HOTR and EKOS. I have the Skunk and HOTR and a friend the EKOS. The EKOS is slightly better then the HOTR hull. Heres a shot of the Skunk and Hotr bottoms.

[tiqueman]

I am running the 8XLs on 3s and they are too much power for this boat and prop set up.I wish I would have got 9XLs and ran them on 3s it still would run in the 50s and not be so ballistic.Now it comes out of the water too harsh and fast and you have to roll on the throttle or it will take off.These motors will push it past 60 but the hull probably will come apart and send several hundred dollars of electrics to the bottom.This EKOS project has been fun but very $$$$ I am worried about running all my data logger gear in here for a top speed run and flushing it down the drain because I now use it in all my RC stuff for testing.

Adjust your COG and you should be able to get it to handle great. As stated before, Im tenths under 70 on an identical hull design and have no handling problems what so ever.

This run the GPS did not record. the next days run w/ no adjustments except repositioning of the GPS showed 66.7. Stock 442 props, only sharpened and balanced. Again, 10XLs on 6S.

Bunch of Algae in the pond so I could run much past (to the right) of where I was standin.. but you get the idea. This was also its 2nd run ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf1Th9SlC3o

And heres a pic of her complete.

Not trying to jack the thread w/ a HOTR hull, but they are the same design and just commenting on how they can and will run way past 50. They (EKOS, HOTR and Skunk2) are all a fantastic hull design. :buttrock:

[Igoreski]

Where do you get the skunk hulls I need one bad.

[tiqueman]

Scotty is a member on the forums. His member name is Skunk Works. Shoot him a PM and find out when his next batch will be ready.

hes got a thread on here as well about them. I think it may be in the "Swap Shop"

[forescott]

I hear ya about the speed. I ran mine today at 58mph.(4s, 380-9xl, cf-40's) But my drives are 1 degree posotive and the front end bobs a little. No blowover yet, but it looks ooh soo close!! I'm gonna set my drives back to neutral. I still havent gotten my 442's back, but am thinking that I would use them on 3s only. I'm already gettin 48mph on 3s with my 40mm props.

[tiqueman]

I think my drives were about -1. 50ish is a great speed for these hulls as you can still power thru turns w/out many worrys. It starts getting really wide turn arounds above 60.
I will have to get some current video this weekend.

[Igoreski]

I would like to try my boat on real calm water but the wind is not working with me.I will be ramping up speed and all hell breaks loose.If it was like glass I could at least see the boats attitude.That skunk hull looks great so i sent him a PM,I would rather give him $$$ than Venom.Maybe they will sell smoke damaged hulls!! in the future.Venom must have piles of them laying around unless they are treating everyone like Darla.

[tiqueman]

I would like to try my boat on real calm water but the wind is not working with me.I will be ramping up speed and all hell breaks loose.If it was like glass I could at least see the boats attitude.That skunk hull looks great so i sent him a PM,I would rather give him $$$ than Venom.Maybe they will sell smoke damaged hulls!! in the future.Venom must have piles of them laying around unless they are treating everyone like Darla.

:roflol:

[forescott]

I am running the 8XLs on 3s and they are too much power for this boat and prop set up.I wish I would have got 9XLs and ran them on 3s it still would run in the 50s and not be so ballistic.Now it comes out of the water too harsh and fast and you have to roll on the throttle or it will take off.These motors will push it past 60 but the hull probably will come apart and send several hundred dollars of electrics to the bottom.This EKOS project has been fun but very $$$$ I am worried about running all my data logger gear in here for a top speed run and flushing it down the drain because I now use it in all my RC stuff for testing.

I didnt realize you were using the 8xl's. Thats a lotta kv for those 442's I bet the venom 32mm 3-blades would perform real well with those motors.

[forescott]

Adjust your COG and you should be able to get it to handle great. As stated before, Im tenths under 70 on an identical hull design and have no handling problems what so ever.

This run the GPS did not record. the next days run w/ no adjustments except repositioning of the GPS showed 66.7. Stock 442 props, only sharpened and balanced. Again, 10XLs on 6S.

Bunch of Algae in the pond so I could run much past (to the right) of where I was standin.. but you get the idea. This was also its 2nd run ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf1Th9SlC3o

And heres a pic of her complete.

Not trying to jack the thread w/ a HOTR hull, but they are the same design and just commenting on how they can and will run way past 50. They (EKOS, HOTR and Skunk2) are all a fantastic hull design. :buttrock:

I was wondering how you were gettin that kinda speed on this hull. Your batteries are much further forward than mine. I think I'll try moving mine up a bit to keep the nose down!

[tiqueman]

I was wondering how you were gettin that kinda speed on this hull. Your batteries are much further forward than mine. I think I'll try moving mine up a bit to keep the nose down!

I think my cog is about 8.75

[forescott]

I just realized the 10xl on 6s is approx 52000 unloaded rpm. Is that right??

[tiqueman]

I just realized the 10xl on 6s is approx 52000 unloaded rpm. Is that right??

About 36600. They are 540 size 1658KV.. I think..., not 380s

[forescott]

AAAAH! ok!

[forescott]

Im gettin 55mph out of the feigao 9xl's(2612kv) on 4s, and a pair of cf-40's. But the prop hubs are wider than the drive dogs so I dont really like the fit. Wow, 55 looks insanely fast to me, 70mph must be soo close to blowover on that hull!:eek:
Here is a pic of the crummy fit of the cf-40 vs. the 442.

[FighterCat57]

Here is a pic of the crummy fit of the cf-40 vs. the 442.

Nice!

I wonder just how much difference that will make. It should make some, any flat edge in the water is added drag.

[forescott]

I just hope the 442's wont burn my 9xl's!

[FighterCat57]

I just hope the 442's wont burn my 9xl's!

Is the 442 made for the 4mm prop shaft? Or is it shimmed?

Also, did you sharpen them yourself?

I'm getting ready to order a pair and curious.

[forescott]

Its shimmed. Had the 442's prepped by chuck genge(egneg)

[forescott]

If they dont work out for me I'll send you a pm.

[FighterCat57]

If they dont work out for me I'll send you a pm.

Please do! :thumbup:

[VIKOS]

Might try to taper that hubs down...easy to do with a file.

Your right lost a doggear and prop that u sent me but I think it was from a loose prop nut. But I'll screw every thing down make print and file where it was printed. Like that of the stock shafts but these are stronger lol and don't rust as easy. Pulled my one flex shaft out and it was or had started to rust.

[forescott]

I just hope the 442's wont burn my 9xl's!

Had the ekos out on the water today for a test run with de-toungued x442's on 3s. Hit 52.9mph on gps. Pretty fast for 3s but the motors were pretty hot after 2-minutes runtime. I think the 10xl's would fair better with these props.