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View Full Version : Looking at a Rio or a SuperVee... new to boats, need advice



pavmentsurfer
03-10-2010, 11:52 AM
Im just looking to get into an RC boat. I have many different cars and trucks, nitro and brushless electric. But I vacation at a resort with a giant pond out front each year and want to have something to do when im there.
Im looking for a larger boat (27 would be the smallest) and I want it to be easy to drive and easy to run. I currently have only Lipo batteries. A few 2S and few 3S and I dont want to get back into Nimh.
Also, I have a spare Traxxas VXL 3500 waterproof system laying around. Im wondering 2 things. First, if I go with a SuperVee 27 brushless will the ESC handle Lipo or will I need to buy 2 cutoffs?
Second, could I get the Rio EP and install my VXL system in it and run it on one lipo? Can I run the Rio EP stock with a LIpo as long as I have a cut off installed?

I really like the Rio EP cause its cheap and because I already have the VXL system laying around. But if it wont work and I want brushless power should I go with the SuperVee.
Are there any better choices?

Karfrik
03-12-2010, 12:45 PM
The SV27 has a brushless motor and esc will run on either nimh or lipos and can handle both 2S and 3S.The Rio has a brushed motor and the esc sucks.
If you can go for the SV27 that would be my first option,runs fast and very reliable.If you go for the Rio EP you`ll end up upgrading it $$$ to make it faster and hull has its limits compare to the SV27.So when you add up you`re better off with the SV27.It all depends on your pockets and what you wanna do.Plus there are so many SV27`s around that you can save buying one in good used condition.
Hope this helps...Albert

pavmentsurfer
03-12-2010, 02:22 PM
Thanks, I actually bought the EP just before you posted. Ive also got a Novak LVC so I can run my 2S lipos in the Rio but will likely be adding a VXL brushless ESC and some sort of Brushless motor at some point. I dont want to go super fast, its my first boat. I just want something fun. Maybe the LIpos with teh stock setup will be enough. Ill jsut fiddle with it this summer and see what happens.
I would love to hear if its possible to just run a Traxxas VXL3S system in a boat like this. Is it a bolt in or would i have to modify anything else?

Karfrik
03-12-2010, 03:43 PM
Things with boats is that esc`s don`t get airflow as in rc cars and trucks in order to cool them.So the only way to cooled them is using water.I also run a twin motor boat with a Novak/Traxxas 33014 esc for which Traxxas sells a watercooling kit intended for its marine waterproof esc`s for its line of boats, and its very, very cheap.Check it out on ebay or in the Traxxas site and check if it to see if it fits your esc also.They sell for around $5-7.If you don`t find it let me know so i can find its part # for you...................Al

pavmentsurfer
03-12-2010, 05:10 PM
I see, could I buy a water cooled ESC meant for a boat and run the traxxas VXL motor. Its 3500kv. Would that be too much. I jsut found on e-bay a 2200kv brushless marine system for $100. I could install that I guess. I want a system thats no hassle and im afraid the stock system wont last as youve said the ESC isnt very good. If im going to upgrade the ESC I might as well just do the motor too. And, if im going to buy an LVC, I might as well just get an ESC that can handle Lipo. Will any 540 size motor with a 5mm output shaft be a bolt in or will the stock flex cable and other parts not handle brushless power?

thegreat1
03-12-2010, 08:54 PM
in my rio i am running a ammo 2600 and hydra 120 and i was able to run the stock cable on
4s. the 3500 vxl setup should work great on 3s. if you are running a 5mm shaft you will need to get a new coupler or do what i did and file the shaft down to 1/8". my boat runs really good on this setup and i am very happy with it, but i am awaiting a new flex/prop so i can run my sv27 strut for more tuning capability.

pavmentsurfer
03-12-2010, 09:06 PM
I thought a 5mm shaft is 1/8. But I could easily be wrong. I figure the VXL motor is a 540 size so it would have a similar shaft diameter to what the boat would have stock. I may try the VXL system in the boat on 3S just to see if it will work performance wise and if it does ill get a proper marine ESC. Just wanted to make sure a 3500kv motor would do what I need. I know nothing about how a motor effects the prop and how that will in turn effect the boat handling and bow lifting.

thegreat1
03-12-2010, 09:10 PM
1/8th is 3.2mm i think or something close. when you do drop that motr/esc in make sure to water cool you motor also. i use one of the rubber jackets at the back of the can and am still able to use the stock mount. one thing that you will need to do is prop down with that setup. the stock 42 is way to big and will cause a lot of heat. i am i am going to be running a 35mm prop to start with and move up if needed.

thegreat1
03-12-2010, 09:12 PM
others have suggested starting with a 36/38 but we will see what happens.( i have an m440 down cut to 35 that is why i am starting with it. lol)

pavmentsurfer
03-12-2010, 09:23 PM
Would a lower KV motor be more capable of pulling the stock prop? I have to order everthing from tower as my LHS doesnt stock boat stuff and I ordered to more stock props when I bought the boat from tower. I can always get more but its a pain. If im going to order a motor, might as well work with the stock prop I guess. Ive found a 2200kv motor and 120amp watercooled ESC on e-bay as a set for $100shipped. Would that work for me?

thegreat1
03-12-2010, 09:42 PM
yes lower kv bigger prop/more power. as far as the ebay setup we need a link. hobby city has goor turnigy esc for cheap and ose has a lot of great product.

pavmentsurfer
03-12-2010, 09:55 PM
I was looking at hobbyking also. They have turnigy stuff. I can get a 120 amp watercooled ESC for about $65. But I just dont know if I can get the right motor for the remaining $30 or so. But I can see I should probably just go with the dedicated marine brushless setup with the lower KV motor. Ill probably do that.
Cant find the link to the one I was thinking of, but heres an even cheaper alternative. Though the ESC is not watercooled and its only 60 amp. What do you guys think?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Marine-2100Kv-Brushless-Motor-60A-ESC-C68U_W0QQitemZ370338475192QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio _Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5639e4acb8#ht_ 5268wt_941

pavmentsurfer
03-12-2010, 09:59 PM
Heres the same setup I found earlier but from a different seller and its a bit more expensive. But its the same thing I was looking at before. Its a 60 amp ESC, not a 120 like I said before. But it is watercooled.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Boat-3300Kv-Brushless-Motor-60A-ESC-Combo-442U_W0QQitemZ160411822462QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio _Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item25594a297e#ht_ 6052wt_941

pavmentsurfer
03-26-2010, 04:09 PM
So I got the boat, instaled a Novak 2S Smart Stop and ran less than one 2S lipo through the boat. First the servo gears got messed up. But I kept driving it anyway figuring they were already stripped a bit. After about 15minutes of running the boat just stopped. Radio work, steering works everything but the throttle. Looks like the ESC is pooched. Less than ONE pack. How can that be?
Im gonna look for a BL system on e-bay but could really use some advice on what to get. What KV and weather or not im gonna need other parts.
Thanks guys

Diesel6401
03-26-2010, 06:14 PM
So I got the boat, instaled a Novak 2S Smart Stop and ran less than one 2S lipo through the boat. First the servo gears got messed up. But I kept driving it anyway figuring they were already stripped a bit. After about 15minutes of running the boat just stopped. Radio work, steering works everything but the throttle. Looks like the ESC is pooched. Less than ONE pack. How can that be?
Im gonna look for a BL system on e-bay but could really use some advice on what to get. What KV and weather or not im gonna need other parts.
Thanks guys

15m's on stock esc? If so the esc isn't water cooled (plus junk) and sits underneath the rx & servo in the radio box and just gets smoking hot and dies. I went through 2 of them in about 2 weeks before I swapped esc's. Also stock servo is junk, I replaced that as well. I run a traxxas xl-5 now with the stock motor. I run a 8.4 hump pack and the boat is only used for rescue now a days. You can check out the vid in my signature if you want.

pavmentsurfer
03-26-2010, 07:19 PM
What servo should i put in it? I got a 50 amp ESC and 3600kv motor that says its max draw is 50 amps. Im ONLY going to run 2S lipo... not 3S so I hope this setup will be good enough. The ESC isnt watercooled but im not going to mount it under the radio tray like the stock one is. Im going to mount it beside the motor with double sided tape. I can get a water cooled 60 amp ESC for $20 shipped off ebay so if this one dies I may jsut do that. I also have a spare Traxxas VXL esc with the cooling fan I could try... and further to all THAT... I have a complete traxxas XL5 system (motor and ESC) I could put in there to try out. What would be the best route?
Im not looking for blistering speeds, just fast enough to be fun (a bit faster than stock would be nice) and RELIABLE is the key.
The Brushless motor I bought IS watercooled and my experience with BL systems is that the motor gets hot before the ESC does, is this true with boats also? Ive seen pics of external ESC watercooling kits you strap to the ESC against the heatsink... where can I get one of these? Maybe its better to just get the watercooled ESC. We'll see I guess.

Diesel6401
03-26-2010, 07:45 PM
What servo should i put in it? I got a 50 amp ESC and 3600kv motor that says its max draw is 50 amps. Im ONLY going to run 2S lipo... not 3S so I hope this setup will be good enough. The ESC isnt watercooled but im not going to mount it under the radio tray like the stock one is. Im going to mount it beside the motor with double sided tape. I can get a water cooled 60 amp ESC for $20 shipped off ebay so if this one dies I may jsut do that. I also have a spare Traxxas VXL esc with the cooling fan I could try... and further to all THAT... I have a complete traxxas XL5 system (motor and ESC) I could put in there to try out. What would be the best route?
Im not looking for blistering speeds, just fast enough to be fun (a bit faster than stock would be nice) and RELIABLE is the key.
The Brushless motor I bought IS watercooled and my experience with BL systems is that the motor gets hot before the ESC does, is this true with boats also? Ive seen pics of external ESC watercooling kits you strap to the ESC against the heatsink... where can I get one of these? Maybe its better to just get the watercooled ESC. We'll see I guess.

I just ran to the lhs and picked up a micro servo for like $14 and made my own mounting bracket. I ran a xl-5 esc and titan 12t before on a 8.4v hump pack with the stock prop and got 18mph out of it. That's the fastest I got that boat brushed. As far as brushless on this boat don't no to many combo's. Running 2s though your gonna need a high kv motor.

pavmentsurfer
04-06-2010, 09:43 PM
So I have received my brushless system and got a new JR servo installed. Ive removed everything from the boat, go the servo mounted up... this time with screws instead of glue and tape. I have the ESC plug switched from deans to traxxas.

NOW... what I need is to find a place to get an adapter for the motor/flex cable. Where do I get one of those. The flex cable is smaller, its 1/8. But the motor is bigger. Are there any places that make these? I tried drilling out the stock one but got it just SLIGHTLY crooked so now it wobbles. I wont run it like that. Itll just wreck stuff.
Thanks for any help guys

pavmentsurfer
04-06-2010, 11:15 PM
I just bought a 4mm to .130 adapter. I think this is the right one. I used my digital calliper to measure the motor shaft and its 4mm exactly. The flex cable is .125 or 3.12 exactly. So I think I got the right part. I got it on e-bay for $10. It has single lock screws on the motor end and double lock screws on the shaft end. Its also very short. which is good as I could use a bit more room to move the motor back in the mount a bit.
Anyway, looks like im going to be without the boat for at least a week and a half until this arrives. But Ill have time to get everything else setup perfectly before hand. The actual liquid cooling line from the back of the boat to the motor is too short now so ill have to fix that. Ive got an idea to make my own liquid cooling addition to the heat sink of the ESC also. I think im going to just look some fuel tubing back and forth across the heat sink and tape it on its way to the motor. This should give a bit of a cooling action and the fuel tubing can easily handle the heat. if not, no big deal. I can just take it off. Anyway, ill get pics and vids when its all up and running

Diesel6401
04-07-2010, 12:03 AM
I just bought a 4mm to .130 adapter. I think this is the right one. I used my digital calliper to measure the motor shaft and its 4mm exactly. The flex cable is .125 or 3.12 exactly. So I think I got the right part. I got it on e-bay for $10. It has single lock screws on the motor end and double lock screws on the shaft end. Its also very short. which is good as I could use a bit more room to move the motor back in the mount a bit.
Anyway, looks like im going to be without the boat for at least a week and a half until this arrives. But Ill have time to get everything else setup perfectly before hand. The actual liquid cooling line from the back of the boat to the motor is too short now so ill have to fix that. Ive got an idea to make my own liquid cooling addition to the heat sink of the ESC also. I think im going to just look some fuel tubing back and forth across the heat sink and tape it on its way to the motor. This should give a bit of a cooling action and the fuel tubing can easily handle the heat. if not, no big deal. I can just take it off. Anyway, ill get pics and vids when its all up and running

What motor is it? You also could have grapped a coupler here on OSE http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=Motor+Couplers

Karfrik
04-07-2010, 10:32 AM
If you don`t find the coupler you need,try Jeff Wohlt.He`s here in the forum and he specializes in custom couplers.Great guy to deal with.
And after a long ordeal i finally got me a nice Rio Ep with bad esc.Just replaced the esc with a turnigy 30a, but definately looking forward to convert it to brushless.So i`m watching what you guys are doing!!!:thumbup1:,.......Albert

pavmentsurfer
04-07-2010, 10:46 AM
I didnt even realize this forum included a store... or vice versa.
Karfrik, ill post some pics and specs of my setup once its done. I was trying to go as SIMPLE as possible. Just the bare minimum to get me on the water with a brushless system. Since i didnt need the radio the Rio EP was a better value to me than the Super Vee as the 2.4 radio is worth about $60. I bought the boat for about $125 new including shipping and after a small discount, then i sell the radio for $60. Im down to $65 for the boat and hardware. The stock esc and motor are junk so I dont count them as worth anything. ive now bought a $40 brushless system on e-bay that included the motor and ESC, $10 coupler and im hoping that will get me up and running. If thats all I need ill have a total of $105 into the boat (not including my radio... but I already had that) Which is a killer deal IMO.
If id bought a super Vee I would have had about $225 into the boat and radio and the stock ESC would still have needed to be changed. So I figure for a guy whos just looking to play around on a small pond, this was the cheapest way to go and still go fast enough to be fun. This is all assuming it works. hehe. It may not and I might be back to square one.

Karfrik
04-07-2010, 11:07 AM
Keep me posted and save e-links to parts you are getting!!!......Al

wizard122
04-07-2010, 11:46 PM
I think that this would have worked very well http://hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8594&Product_Name=2848SL_3900kv_Brushless_Inrunner_(Wat erCooled)
And this http://hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7377&Product_Name=Turnigy_Marine_35A_Brushless_Boat_ESC
Found this too http://cgi.ebay.ca/Marine-3600Kv-Brushless-Motor-60A-ESC-C66U_W0QQitemZ370332354567QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio _Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5639874807

pavmentsurfer
04-08-2010, 02:03 PM
I actually looked at both of those. The motor wont work because the water input and output are on the side, which is where teh motor mount goes around. This boat needs a watercooled motor with the input and output on the back.
The ESC is only a 35amp. The one I got is a 50amp. Though mine is not watercooled and this one is. Ill get some pics or a link to mine once I get it hooked up. Ill do a link to all the parts I used if it works ok incase anyone wants to copy the setup. If it doesnt work, I wont bother until I get it set up right.
Pave

Diesel6401
04-08-2010, 05:56 PM
I actually looked at both of those. The motor wont work because the water input and output are on the side, which is where teh motor mount goes around. This boat needs a watercooled motor with the input and output on the back.
The ESC is only a 35amp. The one I got is a 50amp. Though mine is not watercooled and this one is. Ill get some pics or a link to mine once I get it hooked up. Ill do a link to all the parts I used if it works ok incase anyone wants to copy the setup. If it doesnt work, I wont bother until I get it set up right.
Pave

You would prob benefit better to switch the motor mount to something more along the lines of a BJ26/Apache style mount. Their like $12 and could prob mount into the existing holes and would give you a lot more motor options to work with. Like the one the wizard mentioned. Of course you may have to mod something for the best all around fit (but that's whats fun about this hobby)
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB3307
http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Boat-Motor-Mount-BJ26BL/dp/B000SC1WXE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1270763764&sr=8-1

This could also get the job done as well, http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-drmount.

pavmentsurfer
04-08-2010, 06:21 PM
Those are great links. I like the first one as i could mod the stock mount to use that mount also perhaps. Im going to try the motor in the stock mount for now and see how it does. If its a problem ill definetly move to a more solid front mount like the ones you showed.

Karfrik
04-09-2010, 01:19 AM
pavement...i`m watching,..........Fitted an ESC to the stock motor.Will be running it like this for now.But in 4-6 weeks will start deciding on all you guys setups and start shopping!!!,..........so keep it coming,....Albert:popcorn2::beerchug:

pavmentsurfer
04-19-2010, 12:21 PM
O.K., so I got everything installed. Got the boat out on the water and have to say, im not really impressed. The boat hooks to the right really bad under power. Rolls is more accurate. If I adjust the trim tabs to stop it, the boat runs nose low... plowing. With this setup (60amp non watercooled ESC, 3600kv watercooled brushless on 2S lipo) the boat is SUPER fast. It gets out of the hole IMMEDIATELY and is very fast. But, the ESC gets incredibly hot. The motor stays cool, but the ESC is not going to last like this. I have it double sided taped to the hull beside and inline with the motor. Its just too hot under there without watercooling. I suggest not bothering with a non watercooled ESC no matter how cheap it is. Just get a watercooled version and be done with it. I would also suggest going to at least an 80 amp ESC. If this one at 60 amps gets this hot, even with no cooling, its obviously not enough and is being stressed too much.
I installed a new servo as the stock one stripped the first day i ran it. My new servo, a JR mini servo, works excellent. I had to re-do the wooden mounts so i could screw the servo to them instead of taping it in. Its solid as as a rock.
The boat seems to take on alot of water. Every time I stopped running (about every 5 minutes) it would have half a cup of water in it. There are no cracks or holes in the hull. I think the water is getting in around the hatch. Seems a little silly to me.
To mount the motor (540 size instead of 550 like the stocker) I used 2 thick rubber bands around the motor case (one on top of the other) and it worked perfect. Once the screws holding the stock motor cover are tightened down the motor is TIGHT. My shaft adapter worked excellent and arrived from hong kong in 4 days. Faster than any package I have ever had shipped from the US. Go figure. .130 is the right size for the flex cable on this boat.
Overall, I think this system is too much for a beginner with this boat. If I had enough experience to fiddle with trim tabs, weight and props it could probably be really good. But, I just want something simple, easy to use and no hassle. This isnt what I was looking for. Im gonna sell it and get a Super Vee 27 i think. It should be ready to go out of the box with no fiddling. And, even if i do have to upgrade the electronics the boat is already setup for brushless so it wont need anything extra. Just plug it in and go.