Cooling more than the windings

[Jeff Wohlt]

Been trying to create something new that can cool the internal parts of the motor such as the rotor, windings, etc while running....even after running/racing this can keep running to pull heat out of the motor and cool it down very quickly.

It is a 5V fan that is vac formed around the motor. Granted, you do have to have holes in the front and rear of the motor housings but that is easy to do on any motor or if you change the bearing. Many top motors already have holes.

I hook it up to a very small 300 mah 7.4 lipo from my plane and she runs forever. Small brushless fan in it. It is a 40mm fan but considering a 50mm.

It is not perfected yet a bit of sizing to do but I think it has great potential. All that needs doing is sticking on and cut your motor exit wires and then seal around the wires with a little silicone.

Maybe a person could even hook the ESC behind it and blow on it as well.

Tell me what you think.

[blackcat26]

Looks pretty promising Jeff. Does it cool better than the water jackets do?

[m4a1usr]

My opinion is probably already known about how truely effective water cooling is to a motor. Brushed or brushless. I think your right on track Jeff. Most dont realize why an outrunner is typicaly a cooler running motor then an inrunner even though they are less efficient. Its simply because they tend to have open end bells and also the fact that they have a larger rotating inner mass that in effect moves the air around inside the motor and they remain cooler even if they generate more heat then a comparable powered inrunner. Getting the heat out of a motor from the core is the key to motor longevity and more effective use of power.

I can see this gaining favor with builders if they truely understand the heat removal process. I dont recomend not water cooling a motor but this method does truely get to the source of where heat buildup weakens a motor. Use both methods and you are going to be about as good as it gets without going into very complex systems.

2 thumbs up Jeff! :thumbup:

John

[hydromaddicted]

I like where your going with this one, why not try to incorporate a water cooling ring you could feed with your little chill bottle and make a cold air blower?

[Jeff Wohlt]

Yep, the pump and water with this could do the trick and work from the same small lipo pack. I bought the electric swiffer today but still enjoying how well it clean my wood flors and tile to tear it apart for the pump. Wish I could find those pumps becaus they look about right and pump easy and quiet and run on 4 AA cells.

I do not say not to water cool...this is just a nother way to remove heat from the internal parts. What I like is after a run you just leave the fan on for a bit to bring down the heat from the arm and the bearings.

Still playing with it and my vac former.

[wolf IV]

ill tell you what, cooling my esc's this way in addition to standard cooling is extreamly effective!!!! in fact fans are what makes it possable for the timo to come home without smoking my esc's!! its amazing what a little air moving in these hulls will do!! looks good jeff, now i know what your talking about ;)

[hydromaddicted]

Jeff
Have you seen these micro pumps?
http://www.micropumps.co.uk/TCSproducts.html

[wolf IV]

wow!!! great find. this would be great in a 1/8 scale:confused2:

[Jeff Wohlt]

Yes but the price is what killed it for me. I found some cheaper ones for $12 and pretty small. We already know that the ice water made a BIG difference in cooling the ESC and motor with a closed system. Tom at Octura still says a rudder with an inlet creates more drag than you know. Not sure I totally believe that. When most of us run in the summer the water temps are anywhere from 80-90 degrees here...still effective but not much.

Any new big boats I run will have the pump cooling system..simple and more effective than anything else out there. Using a copper plate on the ESC is also about 20 times better than alum for pulling heat off the fets.

[ozzie-crawl]

i used to just run fans on my mystery 200a esc,s worked very well, big plus was when the boat stops the fan still keeps cooling the esc.
i found there was no real temp diffrence at the end of a run compared to water cooling.
this also allowed the motor to just have its own cooling line

[hydromaddicted]

Why not just make something like this coupled with fan and your cold water pump and air condition the inside of the boat?
You could add Propylene Glycol to that system=food grade antifreeze it has better thermal conductivity than water

http://www.micropumps.co.uk/TCSimages/TCS-330%20(Large%20radiaitor).jpg

[egneg]

That coil is over $80.00 usd!

[hydromaddicted]

That coil is over $80.00 usd!

That's why I said make one:thumbup1: you could do it with copper. I just used that as an example of what you could do.Perhaps you could make one out of a CPU cooler?
Even though what's an extra 80$ if your building the hot set up and you wan't to keep your 1000$+ motor/esc/cell combo cold.

[hydromaddicted]

This is more like it.Just cold water feed the pipe.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233021

[RandyatBBY]

James have you had any experience with the pumps? I need two for the HRP CC

[hydromaddicted]

Randy,

Other than an email to see what they had in stock,I do not have any experience with these.


James

[RcBum]

Hi how efficient would it be in a fully sealed boat where there is no cool air getting in wouldn't a water jacket work better ?

[Jeff Wohlt]

It still moves the air. Many have used fans blowing the ESC with great success. This is just a method of pulling air thru the motor.

[FE Wannabe]

I was just thinking:

Why can't the motor cans be made from copper instead of aluminum?

Is there a reason I am not seeing other than weight and oxidation? Then the water cooling on the outside of the can could potentially be that much more efficient.

Brad

[AndyKunz]

Cost. Compare Cu and Fe salvage costs.

Strength. Copper is a very soft metal.

Andy

[Jeff Wohlt]

But...making a cooling plate for the ESC with copper has many,many times more dissipating power than alum. Easy and soft to drill but a bit high cost. 1/4" plate would work well.

Yep...not sure I could see a motor with copper....although I think trinity had one called the copperhead...I have one but not all copper.

[FE Wannabe]

Thanks for the replies, I knew there had to be something preventing it from being used.

Although, I wonder if a copper alloy exists that might increase the hardness/tensile strength without losing too much of its excellent heat exchanging properties? The cost I understand would be more, but if the benefits are worth it, that could justify the increased cost.

[m4a1usr]

Look more to the tensile strength of the material and the un-needed additional weight. Copper doesnt work in the design. Alloy Alum has far more better structural characteristics then Cu. And why pay a weight penalty with far less benefits for performance?

BTW copper only has a 2 to 1 ratio over aluminum as far as heat conductivity. The materials used for housing construction are based on rigidity and not thermal characteristics. Proper useage is assumed in the application. Dont ask for more then the engineered constants.

John

[FE Wannabe]

Points taken and understood.

Thanks for the clarification,
Brad

[Make-a-Wake]

Nice Jeff! I had been brainstorming about this as well.............in fact i fixed a small 12v computer fan right in front of the end of a 380 that came with cooling vents front and rear, kept it fairly cool, although yours is much more efficient.

[Jeff Wohlt]

This one builds a draw thru the motor. I have not tried it on a motor yet but will. Had the end caps off my 8xl replacing bearing and never even thought to drill the holes...kind of gave up on it sinceit did not get better reviews. It will work well and in the summer can only help. I am looking at an ESC box that will pull air thru it as well.

[LarrysDrifter]

It still moves the air. Many have used fans blowing the ESC with great success. This is just a method of pulling air thru the motor.

Is there a right or wrong way to cool the electronics?Does it matter if its the motor or esc 1st.My ul1 has the water tubes going to the esc then the motor.My Drifter is setup the opposite and seem to run hotter.Both boats have the pickup in the rudder.

[Jeff Wohlt]

ESC always first. A sep water pick up for the motor would be nice. Y-ing them drops pressure but should be able to work. I would rather pull new water in if it were me.

[LarrysDrifter]

Thanks. I thought about making separate cooling for the esc and motor.Along with their own individual dicharges obviously.I would like to use the rudder for one and I havent thought about the other style of pickup for the other.Or should I forego the rudder and make a different style of pickup without using the rudder?Any suggestions?

[blackcat26]

Have you considered a rudder with 2 pickups? That would be your easiest route to take.

[LarrysDrifter]

Have you considered a rudder with 2 pickups? That would be your easiest route to take.

No I havent.But there is no water coming out of the discharge in the side of the hull using the rudder.I know for a fact nothings clogged.My junk venom ekos cat always discharged water using their brass tubes for pick-ups.I really dont understand why my Drifter isnt picking up water.If so its so little it cant be seen coming out.

[Eodman]

I have been toying with another idea for after run cooling. I recently ordered a solar powered bird bath pump - my idea is to take a plastic 6 - pack cooler and mount the panel on top, the motor inside run cooling lines thru the walls. Then fill with water and ice when the boat comes off the water plug the cooling lines in & recirculate the water taking the heat with it!

Only problem I see is cloudy days!

[T Nissen]

...I really dont understand why my Drifter isnt picking up water.If so its so little it cant be seen coming out.

Thing with water cooling is the water doesn't have to spraying 5 feet in the air for it to be working. Even a slight trickle means water is cycling through your system and is typically enough to do its job.

Take a small balloon and tape it over the water exit on your hull. Run it for 1 lap and bring it in. If there is water in the balloon then your system is working.

[H2OCamel]

Jeff! COOL idea! yes the pun was intended, I use HV110 esc's in my HPR115 and I like the fact that when the boat in't at full speed it is still cooling the esc's. Has worked well for me so far. I still have water cooling on the 2 8XL's.

[Old Sloppy]

Tom at Octura still says a rudder with an inlet creates more drag than you know. Not sure I totally believe that.

The faster the boat, the more drag is created.
Tom's statement is TRUE.....
but what are you going to do, you gotta cool your equipment somehow.....

Harry

[Boaterguy]

I reccomend this article to alot of people. http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/info-pages/watercooling.php
I'm gonna dissasemble my onyx 230 and take the fan, I'll keep it as together as possible so I can put a diff fan in if I use that charger again.