Timing on a feigao motor

[Gary]

Hi guys. I have a 8xl and was wondering where a good timing number would be. I always ran a castle 120 Hydra on normal , whatever that number would end up to be . Now i have Turnigy 120 and have 3.75 through 26.25 degrees for timing. Just looking to get a baseline with this ESC before i hit the water and waste an afternoon of batteries. A good start would help. :biggrin:Thanks

[Rumdog]

Feigaos being 2 pole motors require low timing. Set it at 0 if you can.

[ksm2001]

Gary, not sure which Turnigy esc you have but it should have a setting for 0 also, I run my DF29 with the Highmodel 200 and 8xl at 1 degree and with all the tests I did this setting runs the best. My Turnigy 180 has a setting for 0. Try it on 0 first.

Ken

[Gary]

I have the Turnigy 120 amp 6s model. Wow ...0- degrees .......I would not have thought that low but thts where i will put it.

[Fluid]

Feigaos being 2 pole motors require low timing. Set it at 0 if you can.
No no no no! This is absolutely not correct!! Setting the timing advance on "0" will often give high temps and poor performance, particularly if you prop for speed. Only the Neu "D" 4-pole motors want timing near 'zero'. For sport running with a Hacker/Feiago/Lehner 2-pole motor, aim for 10 to 15 degrees advance (unless it's in a tug boat). They will run a little faster at 20+ degrees if propped right in a very free running hull - but temps can get high so no long run times and check temps often until you know it's safe. In fact the latter is good advice no matter what motor you have until you know what it will do.



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[Rumdog]

This is news to me! Thanks for the knowledge sir.

[Fluid]

I didn't make this up, it's from eight years of BL racing experience, and from the recommendations of my German ESC programmer/FE racer friends. Too, the instructions for Schulze controllers stated that for Hacker 2-pole motors (Feigaos are ripoffs of the Hacker) optimum timing is 10-15 degrees. The lowest you could adjust a Schulze was between 5 and 7 degrees anyway. Even Castle recommends their #2 advance setting for the best balance of power and run time.

Timing advance is required for optimum power and efficiency matched to the current draw. The higher the draw, the more advance is required. Since most of us want high performance we need to adjust timing to match higher amp draw. Too little is as bad as too much.



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[Brushless55]

I may have to try this out on my MM that I run a 9XL on 4s and 5s, because it looks like it could run better than what it does now..!

[ksm2001]

News to me also, Thanks Jay:buttrock:. I did try the setting of 7 degrees being that this is the next increase on the Highmodel 200 but found the temps to be higher. So set it back to 1 degree and temps are fine? Will have to try this out on the Turnigy at 3.75 degrees in the spring.


No no no no! This is absolutely not correct!! Setting the timing advance on "0" will often give high temps and poor performance, particularly if you prop for speed. Only the Neu "D" 4-pole motors want timing near 'zero'. For sport running with a Hacker/Feiago/Lehner 2-pole motor, aim for 10 to 15 degrees advance (unless it's in a tug boat). They will run a little faster at 20+ degrees if propped right in a very free running hull - but temps can get high so no long run times and check temps often until you know it's safe. In fact the latter is good advice no matter what motor you have until you know what it will do.



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[Mel279]

how about those 6-8 poles motor, what timing should I set?

[yurkanip]

I have always run Lower settings on lower pole motors, and higher settings on higher pole motors. Outrunners being from 6-10 poles for example..need a MINIMUM of 11-15 degree. Feigao etc, should be run at 0 degree. I have tried every combination with feigao and anything over "low" timing makes it run hotter, I am not contradicting electricians science, but hands on tests. I am using Neu and neu/castle motors now and they run "fine" on low timing. But turn up the timing to say, 11.25 degree and they come to life, really quickly. I have tried up to 22.5 but it just runs hotter, not faster.

[Himalaya]

Those are very helpful tips yurkanip, what ESC did you use to test those motors?

[Fluid]

I have always run Lower settings on lower pole motors, and higher settings on higher pole motors.......I am using Neu and neu/castle motors now and they run "fine" on low timing. But turn up the timing to say, 11.25 degree and they come to life, really quickly. I have tried up to 22.5 but it just runs hotter, not faster.

"Always"? We'll have to agree to disagree here, I have 8 years BL experience with two ESC and two motor makers to back up my facts, but what do I know....

Had you tried advanced timing on a Neu 'D' wind motor you'd not find it to "come to life" but instead just get hot. When someone's "testing" disproves science, I have to wonder about their 'test' methodology. BTW anyone who wants to give up efficiency and power by running a 2-pole motor on zero timing is welcome to do so. Please by all means come and race with me. ;)

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it.....




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[7500RPM]

Good Morning Jay, Always awesome to hear from the Pro's of the sport! What frequency would you use on the controller for this timing?

[yurkanip]

Fluid, interesting response. My statements are purely from my experience...I need to ask you, did I knock anything you said? or knock your, "8 years of brushless experience" I think not! I was not even talking to you in my post...it was towards Gary who started the thread. Now, please take a breath and give all of the input you want, but don't get defensive when someone has a different point of view on this forum.

Now, back to the original post about timing.

Himalaya, I have abused the same seaking 90a esc, for 2 years now. It is still kicking!

[m4a1usr]

Some good reading for setups from Neu.

http://neumotors.com/Site/FAQs_%26_setup.html

There might be some issues with the correct motor timing if the ESC you are using has a higher PWM selected.


John

[Gary]

I just came back from the lake to try out my new Turnigy 120 and i loved it. Problem was i didnt get much of a run time because i had the volage cut off to 50% set to high. By the time packs got warm it cut back the power..ooops! So friday i will test a noon with the timing at around 15 degrees or so{in what little water thats not frozen}.Then i will drop it to 0 just for the hell of it and see what happens!!! I know my Castle 120 would go an average of 58-62mphset on Race so i hope to be in that range again with this ESC.I will let you guys know.

[ksm2001]

Gary; looking forward to hear what your thoughts will be after trying different timing runs:beerchug:
:popcorn2:

Ken

[Brushless55]

I have always run Lower settings on lower pole motors, and higher settings on higher pole motors. Outrunners being from 6-10 poles for example..need a MINIMUM of 11-15 degree. Feigao etc, should be run at 0 degree. I have tried every combination with feigao and anything over "low" timing makes it run hotter, I am not contradicting electricians science, but hands on tests. I am using Neu and neu/castle motors now and they run "fine" on low timing. But turn up the timing to say, 11.25 degree and they come to life, really quickly. I have tried up to 22.5 but it just runs hotter, not faster.

Thank you for your great input! :thumbup1:
I've heard others with the same finds as you..

[7500RPM]

From what I have tested, Fiegao 7S with a x632 in a Splash hydro, the boat was ok on zero timing BUT when I advanced it to 7 degrees.... I will tell you that little hydro sure woke up! GPS at 38 MPH. on 6 cells of NiMH. so zero in this case just did not cut it.

[m4a1usr]

What speedo and software version if you know? I'm thinking there might be some underlying issues we may not be including when making timing choices. Something seems amiss.

John

[7500RPM]

X power from this site, and set at 8 KHz, yes I started at zero like most people said, and the boat was ok, but I got the itch to make it go faster on 6 cells of Nimh.

[Gary]

Ok. My test day was probably not as accurate as some other people would be but this is what i came up with. Air temp was 38degrees, water 49 degrees. My test patch of non iced water was not that big but i tried anyhow. Batteries where pre heated to 85 degrees. First test was 58 mph with timing set at 18 degrees. Second test was 54 mph at 15 degrees. Third test was 53 mph at 11.25 degrees. I than lost comunication with the ESC because somehow i hit something" button" on the transmitter and heard a beep between swaping battries and the ESC was not seeing the Transmitteranymore..... " I kinda miss the simplicity of the Hydra".....Anyway It was to cold at that point with wet hands so that was it for me. Each test was recorded on my Eagle Tree Datalogger and a new set of batteries where installed on each of the runs. Four runs per pair of batteries. I will head back sat. afternoon if it doesnt snow to bad and try and test all the way down to 0 timing. Boy.........I used to love winters ....now i can barelly tolerate them LOL

[BakedMopar]

I saw one of those turnigy 120s do alost the same thing. First it just didn't give full power then it kept going into setup mode then no worky at all. Later that day and till today runs just fine. And no this one didn't get wet.

BTW I run mine at 7 degrees good ballance between power and heat. The turnigy came setup with 26 degrees timming and it was an animal. It's now set at 3.75 with less speed and cooler temps.

[hydromaddicted]

From old Hacker master esc instructions

4 Timing Modes
• Timing mode 1 – (2-5 degrees) optimum timing for Hacker, Lehner, and other 2-pole motors
• Timing mode 2 – (10 degrees) optimum for Aveox, Astro, and for maximum RPM on 2-pole motors.
• Timing mode 3 – (18 degrees) optimum timing for Phasor, Mega, Plettenberg, and other 6-pole motors
and for maximum RPM on Aveox, Astro, and other 4-pole motors.
• Timing mode 4 – (30 degrees) optimum timing for AXI, Kohler, Actro and other Out runner motors

[sailr]

Good start. The 30 degrees for outrunners is a little on the high side but otherwise this chart is right on the money.




From old Hacker master esc instructions

4 Timing Modes
• Timing mode 1 – (2-5 degrees) optimum timing for Hacker, Lehner, and other 2-pole motors
• Timing mode 2 – (10 degrees) optimum for Aveox, Astro, and for maximum RPM on 2-pole motors.
• Timing mode 3 – (18 degrees) optimum timing for Phasor, Mega, Plettenberg, and other 6-pole motors
and for maximum RPM on Aveox, Astro, and other 4-pole motors.
• Timing mode 4 – (30 degrees) optimum timing for AXI, Kohler, Actro and other Out runner motors

[Brushless55]

so it looks like low timing on a Feigao is the way to go...

[Gary]

Went back today and did back to back test of 3.75 and 26.25 degrees . I did this because it was cold as sh@% at 28 degrees . Water was 46, batteries were around 80. First run with 3.75 timing was 51.9mph and last runs was 60.0mph with 26.25 degrees.High timing was definetly faster. Didnt take any temps because frankly its 28 degrees out and i dont see anything getting warm......especially me LOL. Again not the best test but gives some insight.

[hydromaddicted]

Once it warms up a little you'll find more timing advance does equal more speed at the expense of heat.

good thread http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=8599

[Brushless55]

Ok, how do I advance the timing on my esc?
I have a plane with an outrunner I would love to punch up the timing for some 3D fun!

[hydromaddicted]

Ok, how do I advance the timing on my esc?
I have a plane with an outrunner I would love to punch up the timing for some 3D fun!

Most ESC's come with some sort of instructions on how to go about this.Some come with programing boxes on others you need to find out how to get the controller in programming mode then it's a series of beeps from the controller usually followed by you pulling the trigger on your Tx to make the different timing selections.

[sailr]

You have to program the esc!~ Do you have the directions for it?


Ok, how do I advance the timing on my esc?
I have a plane with an outrunner I would love to punch up the timing for some 3D fun!

[Gary]

Last test for ha ha's. Tried 0 timing on bench. Motor rpm was 38,480. Timing set at 26.25 motor rpm was 41,000. No load but a 2,500 rpm increase for whatever its worth