Who runs an Outrunner in their boats?

[Meniscus]

I figured we could all learn from each other's experience:

Who runs an Outrunner in their boats?


Which one did you use? Manufacturer, size, KV, etc.? Link if you can find.
What hull did you use it on?
How did it perform for you?
Have you tried any inrunners on this same hull?

All input is welcome. No one will judge the silly things that anyone does from time to time! :thumbup1:

[bustitup]

ben
best place for scorpion outrunners is here..they got the best price and a 5% discount on somethings when you register..also check out the water cooles motor mounts for outrunners there

http://www.southriverrcboats.com/shop/category_18/Brushless-Out-Runners.html?shop_param=cid%3D%26


I figured we could all learn from each other's experience:

Who runs an Outrunner in their boats?


Which one did you use? Manufacturer, size, KV, etc.? Link if you can find.
What hull did you use it on?
How did it perform for you?
Have you tried any inrunners on this same hull?

All input is welcome. No one will judge the silly things that anyone does from time to time! :thumbup1:

[Meniscus]

Thanks for posting the info. Have you used them in any of your boats and what has the result been?

[bustitup]

Thanks for posting the info. Have you used them in any of your boats and what has the result been?

have not used it yet but the 4035-800 I own is going into the 41" cat in my avitar

beleive me i have done a ton of reading up on scorpion outrunners and ALL I see is good news on both small and large motors

[dirtysouth31]

I dont

[Fluid]

I was looking for a sport motor for my 34" 6S SprintCat. I like the boat a lot, but it is way too fast (60+) for the small pond near my home. I chose the Scorpion 4025/1100; running on 6S1P with an x450 it runs near 40 mph for over 5 minutes. That is fast enough to be fun and long enough to be ready to bring it in. Amp draw is low for a motor with a 100 amp top end - nothing gets above 100F. More Kv is needed for higher speeds but that wasn't my goal. I got mine from Jim at southriverrcboats.




.

[FloatDaBoat]

All input is welcome. No one will judge the silly things that anyone does from time to time! :thumbup1:

It appears dirtysouth went way beyond silly . . . .

[screwball]

ive got one in my renegade rigger lol the one that you buy with the kit but i haven't used it yet, but i will in about 2 weeks!

[egneg]

It appears dirtysouth went way beyond silly . . . .

Hence the name ... Dirtysouth.

[dirtysouth31]

http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab309/riggerchaser/samuel_L_Jackson.gif

[Meniscus]

Thanks for the input Jay. Have you run outrunners in any other boats?

Funny Don!

[Fluid]

This is the only outrunner I've used, and only the second one I've personally seen in a true FE boat. The other set a SAW record several years ago at Valdosta.


./

[Himalaya]

I tried a small outrunner in a Mono1, compared to inrunners it spools up rather slow(with everything else being same) but runs well. It also comes back a bit warmer than inrunners for the water cooling effect is not as direct.

IMO Inrunners are certainly more suitable for boats but for my new project, to convert a 1.4m(55") gas deep-V to electric, it's always thirsty for power. I may have to go to outrunners for that will save me 600+ bucks! Why are outrunners so much cheaper than similar rated inrunners?

[Meniscus]

Thanks Jay, can you recall who set that record or what equipment he/she was using? I'm guessing they were probably sponsored and you may know who the manufacturer was.

Himalaya, regarding why the outrunners are generally cheaper, I would venture to guess that the inrunners have to meet stringent specs to keep the magnets in place. As you may have heard, there have been many cases in the past where inrunners throw magnets and destroy the motor. With outrunners, it's a different design that doesn't lend towards throwing magnets in most cases, but may suffer from other aspects.

IMO, there's advantages and disadvantages to both. However as I understand, for boating purposes outrunners traditionally haven't had the higher KV ratings we need for direct drive. Plus, as you already indicated, watercooling may be a deciding factor as well.

Hope that helps. If you haven't already, look closely at the design elements of both and hopefully you will understand what I'm saying about the magnets.
=> Please someone correct me if I'm wrong with any of this. :smile:

[tharmer]

In the PNW the spec motor for out 1/7th scale hydroplanes is a Scorpion Outrunner 4035-800 on 8s2p. They are fast, reliable and have a reallly muscular sound. No motor failures (that I know of) amonst 15 boats that raced all summer.
-t

[Fluid]

Thanks Jay, can you recall who set that record or what equipment he/she was using? I'm guessing they were probably sponsored and you may know who the manufacturer was.

It was one of the Wollards - can't remember now who was actually driving it. Probably an N-2 or O Mono set in Valdosta around 2006.



.

[sailr]

Outrunners have a LOT more torque than inrunners because the mass is on the outside. You can get by with lower KV's because you can swing MUCH larger props.

Our Jollymotor offshore boat has a little outrunner in it. The boat does about 38mph. Not bad for a $300 rtr on only a small 3S lipo!

[Ub Hauled]

Outrunners have a LOT more torque than inrunners because the mass is on the outside. You can get by with lower KV's because you can swing MUCH larger props.

Our Jollymotor offshore boat has a little outrunner in it. The boat does about 38mph. Not bad for a $300 rtr on only a small 3S lipo!

Sorry man, I have to desagree with you no this one, it has more torque due to the amount of poles, the mass may have something to do with it but all being equal the poles dictate the torque. More poles = more torque.

[sailr]

Back atcha. The MASS of the magnets contained on the OUTSIDE, rotating around the fixed stator gives it the torque...like a flywheel.

I manufacture outrunner motors for aircraft. I have been doing it for close to eight years now. Trust me, I know of what I speak. Even if you could put 12-24 poles in an inrunner, it would still not have a fraction of the torque of an outrunner. The only use for inrunners in aircraft is with a gearbox because alone, the motor won't turn a prop big enough to fly the airplane (except for some really screaming little guys with 5" props!) It wasn't until the advent of outrunners that electric aircraft really took off (pun intended)


Sorry man, I have to desagree with you no this one, it has more torque due to the amount of poles, the mass may have something to do with it but all being equal the poles dictate the torque. More poles = more torque.

[ozzie-crawl]

i would like to see some comparison in weight between the inrunner rotor and a out runners outer, both motors being of similiar kv and watt output.
my guess would be the out runner could be 2-3 times the weight.
i tried a scorpion 3026 1900kv in my meanmachine for some short runs.
wasnt real impressed till i propped up to take advantage of the torque.
for a small motor it sure has some balls,the motor did die,looked like wires shorted them selves out,had it replaced under warrantie,will be running it in my
vs1 as cooling wont be an issue

[Mel279]

I've run tonic-x z30 800kv but change the winding to suit for 6s in my triton and manage to get 51mph. Then I tried using scorpion 4020 1390kv 6s and manage to get 56mph, eventhough I put a watercool on the motor mount but still it gets hot after just a few run on freshwater, haven't tried saltwater yet to see if there's any difference in speed and temp.

[marker]

An inrunner and outrunner with the same Kv and nett current draw (Iin - Io amps) will have the same torque. It makes no difference to the number of poles the motor has either.
The equation for torque is,
1355 / Kv * ( Iin -Io) Inch-oz torque.

Iin = motor amp draw
Io = no load amp draw
1355 /Kv = Kt, the torque constant

[befu]

I am running a turnigy 3648-1450kv outrunner in mine. Rated for 6s, have only been able to run 4s before the water became really hard. For a sport boat it is really cheap for how much fun it is.

It is pushing a 47mm 3 blade and tops out real fast. Motor is cool. I am looking at getting an eagle tree setup this spring so I can do some real number results. Interesting, the instrumentation will cost me more than the entire boat did!

I always thought outrunners had more torque in similar sized motors due to the radius where the magnetic force acts. An inrunner, the magnets are closer to the shafts. On a 36mm outrunner, the magnets are probably out around 34 to 35 mm. On a 36mm outrunner, I would guess they are closer to 20mm due to the fact they are attached to the shaft, and the motor windings have to go outside of them.

These large outrunners are interesting. I think I will hold onto my larger 52" and 54" monos as battery prices continue to drop, they will become feasible for sport running again. $150 ish for a motor, if you could get multiple batteries and a speed control that would push it for a total of 30 minutes for around another $400, that would be comparable to a gas setup. How much does a zenoah cost now? last time I was in this, it was about $550 for motor/pipe/mount

Brian

[Fluid]

1355 / Kv * ( Iin -Io) Inch-oz torque.

Theoretical value for the potential torque of a generic ideal motor. Actual torque values should be derived from the watt output at specific rpm. Measurement, not theory. This takes into account various dynamic losses and moment arm.

Example: at 20,000 rpm, a motor uses 90 amps at 14.8 volts
At 90% efficiency its output is 1200 watts

1200/746 = 1.6 hp

1.6/20,000rpm = 0.00008

0.0008 x 63,025 = 5.04 ft-lbs at 20,000 rpm
(63,025 is a conversion constant)

Measurement is the key to actual values, and is possible through the use of a datalogger. This isn't perfect without the use of a dyno. Real-world torque varies depending on voltage and rpm. No one has an "ideal" motor.



.

[greenblast]

i am also interested in trying outrunners. i recently got some heli parts to feed my addiction! part of that "bargin" lol! is a align 600l and a 75 amp esc. i am going to try this setup. anyone tried this motor in boats? the motor is 1620kv rated up to 6s @ 1500 watts.i was thinking of trying 3s or 4s to start

[ray schrauwen]

I was looking for a sport motor for my 34" 6S SprintCat. I like the boat a lot, but it is way too fast (60+) for the small pond near my home. I chose the Scorpion 4025/1100; running on 6S1P with an x450 it runs near 40 mph for over 5 minutes. That is fast enough to be fun and long enough to be ready to bring it in. Amp draw is low for a motor with a 100 amp top end - nothing gets above 100F. More Kv is needed for higher speeds but that wasn't my goal. I got mine from Jim at southriverrcboats.




.

Thank you! I bought this motor for my 29" 3.8lb Promise hobby Catmaran, same as the orange one in an avatar, just smaller.

I now see Scorpion may have a 1600 KV 4025? [I]s that right???

If so, I want that one more but, it woul be nice to swing a x450

[Meniscus]

Great explanation Jay. I for one certainly found that helpful.

A while back I purchased a outrunner which Diegoboy is using in his stretched Renegade. It works great and better then the stock one from mile-high RC.

If someone is looking for outrunners, especially the sport boaters out there, contact 'sailr' on this forum. If I'm not mistaken, he may have some extra stock of outrunners of various sizes and KV ratings. If you are unsure what you want exactly, I'm sure he could help.

For me, I'm thinking of picking up a couple matched outrunners for a medium sized toy cat I have sitting around. It will primarily be for the kids at the pond and not setup for extreme boating, but who knows.

Anyone know if the outrunners induce more or less torque roll when turning larger props? Just curious.

[Mel279]

Thank you! I bought this motor for my 29" 3.8lb Promise hobby Catmaran, same as the orange one in an avatar, just smaller.

I now see Scorpion may have a 1600 KV 4025? [I]s that right???

If so, I want that one more but, it woul be nice to swing a x450

From what I've known only scorpion hk3026 have 1600kv, as I have the hk4020 1390kv, the 4025 maybe have the 1100kv, thats the highest kv if Im not mistaken.

[Fluid]

The only place I've seen a reference to the high Kv motor is in a drop menu on an order page at southriverrcboats. Ray asked a major US distributor the question, he has not yet answered.



.

[Doug Smock]

[QUOTE=sailr;155074]

I manufacture outrunner motors for aircraft. I have been doing it for close to eight years now. QUOTE]

Jim you should take us on a virtual tour of your manufacturing facility. I'm sure we'd all enjoy it.:thumbup:
Interesting thread fellas.
Doug :beerchug:

[sailr]

Doug, I'll get some pics uploaded here of the factory and crew. Busy today. Maybe tonight!

[Meniscus]

Anyone else running an outrunner in their boats?

[FE Wannabe]

Ben,

On a small end of the scale I have been running a Mystery D2830 3500KV outrunner on 2S lipo in my MiniV.
It moves it quite nicely, I would guess around 20-23mph, for what seems like forever on a 7.4V 1600mah PolyQuest battery. Everything comes in the same temps it went out with.

I couldn't beat the price, I won the motor and a 30Amp ESC on eBay for $13 shipped from China!:w00t:
I figured I couldn't pass that deal up.....

Brad

[Meniscus]

Very cool Brad. How are the speeds on that setup and what prop are you using? Have you considered trying in larger models?

[FE Wannabe]

Ben,

I am running an x430 and that gives me low to mid 20's which is fast enough because I am still trying to get rid of the porposing. I am still working on the COG and modifying the homemade hardware I made for it.
I had been running the x427 I sold you but it was a little small for it.
I have thought about trying a 36mm outrunner in my 32" mono, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

[ray schrauwen]

Turnigy Typhoon is a nice motor to test for $25, the 36mm one that is.

They make a really nice 28mm one too. Says 3550kv but, its really about 4000kv, about $10.

Going to put the little one in a micro wood rigger and try the 36mm in a DF26 or LSH type boat.

Sold my 4025 Scop because it wasn't the KV I wanted and it wasn't suggested to run more that 6S on it.

Scorpion has Inrunners coming in 2 months :) :)

[justintime2w8]

The biggest thing leading me to the outrunners in my next cat is cost. The 63mm littlescreamer is similar in power to 2215-2230 neu for much much less. That makes a big difference in a twin. $300 for a pair of outrunner motors compared to $1300 or more for neu/lehner. Sure it might not be quite as fast but a grand in my pocket will build a few more boats;-)

[boater76]

Well I have a couple of outrunner's I was going to use in my min hydro. It's 16" long by just over 7" wide. It's from HOTR. Think these will work or should I use something else?



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280454151875


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270418872223

[ray schrauwen]

They should work just fine.

I have one of these two, the higher Kv one is about 4000KV, the longer can is about 3600. These are just a notch under Scorpion motos if not on par for less money that scorp.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9257&Product_Name=Turnigy_Typhoon_450H__2218H_Heli_Moto r_3450kv_(450_class) or
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9021&Product_Name=Turnigy_Typhoon_450H__2215H_Heli_Moto r_3550kv_(450_class)

Since what you show is in stock it may be more appealing. Price is good too.

[Meniscus]

Good calls guys. I've used an Align outrunner in the past and it has served me well. I've yet to try any of the Turnigy outrunners, but I've used their inrunners with great success!

I believe you are right about the understated KV rating on the Turnigy. I have a couple 2100kv motors that certainly act like and sound as if they are higher. I haven't had the chance to verify with a logger.

[Meniscus]

OK, I was catching up on some reading and found where Randy at BBY was running an outrunner in one of his models.

Here's the video link. (http://img651.imageshack.us/i/mvi2391.mp4/)

Link to build info. (http://www.dmwb.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=117&sid=dbf1db19ac68100668ede108f3f9248a)

And who says you can't use an outrunner for FE boats? :thumbup1:

[RandyatBBY]

OK, I was catching up on some reading and found where Randy at BBY was running an outrunner in one of his models.

Here's the video link. (http://img651.imageshack.us/i/mvi2391.mp4/)

Link to build info. (http://www.dmwb.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=117&sid=dbf1db19ac68100668ede108f3f9248a)

And who says you can't use an outrunner for FE boats? :thumbup1:

Look in to the BBY Micro Hydro build we were running Out runners in them too. Nothing new just need a little R&D to find the right ones.

[Meniscus]

Randy,

Are you selling these outrunners? If so, please post some specs so that others can order from you. :thumbup1:

I can't seem to find the info where you've been testing outrunners in the micros. Could you post a link?
How are you cooling the outrunners?

[RandyatBBY]

Randy,

Are you selling these outrunners? If so, please post some specs so that others can order from you. :thumbup1:

I can't seem to find the info where you've been testing outrunners in the micros. Could you post a link?
How are you cooling the outrunners?

I was planning on developing a line of Little Screamers with Scott if he is interested in my help. We talked about a little we will see if he follows threw.

I really can not compete with Hobby King and HK sorts with the out runners on Ebay so I do not try. I am a hull and hardware builder and that is the short and long of it.

[Meniscus]

Makes sense, I didn't even think about that! :doh:

How about that link?

[RandyatBBY]

I had to go back a bit to find it. Hear ya go.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=3849

[Meniscus]

I had to go back a bit to find it. Hear ya go.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=3849

LMAO :laugh: I was looking on your forum! I do remember that thread....at length! Thanks for posting and your efforts to dig it up.

[pmisuinas]

Hi, all, have decided to use a Scorpion 4025 (1670Kv if the South River RC Boats drop down menu is correct) outrunner on 4S-6S in my hydro--what props have proven well matched to the motor? Or at least what is a recommended starting point? Thanks...Pete M

[DISAR]

I have this motor, although the site says 1670, I received 1470kv and 8mm shaft. Have tested it with 5 and 6s in a sprintcat 34". With 6s and 645 prop draws about 120 amps, temperature about 50 C-122 F, speed about 40mph, not bad at all for 120$!! There is a big difference between 5 and 6s, the latter is far better imo.

I don't know what size is your hydro but you can start with 6s and 442-445

[pmisuinas]

Well, unfortunately South River just sent me an email saying the last one was sold and it's a custom wind they have been waiting on for 6 months, so I am now getting an 1100Kv motor. I am putting it in a 37" Aeromarine Sport 40 hull, so the question is the same: for the lower Kv motor, what would be a good starting prop on 6S? Maybe the same one (645)? Thanks...

[tharmer]

A Scorp 4035-800 on 8s runs well with a Graupner K57.
-t

[Fluid]

I run the 4025/1100 in my 6S1P SprintCat, and there is no point in using a prop smaller than an x455. In a well-set up hydro a 1655 would probably be in order. This motor takes a lot of prop even in a cat - the x455 drew under 75 amps average running a one mile course. Expect around 21,000 rpm under load.


.

[ray schrauwen]

I run the 4025/1100 in my 6S1P SprintCat, and there is no point in using a prop smaller than an x455. In a well-set up hydro a 1655 would probably be in order. This motor takes a lot of prop even in a cat - the x455 drew under 75 amps average running a one mile course. Expect around 21,000 rpm under load.


.

What kind of speeds do you see from your cat?

I should never have sold mine.:tongue_smilie:

[Fluid]

With the Scorpion 4025/6 on 1P it's almost 50 mph. On 2P with a Neu 1527/1Y its over 60. I love the boat with both setups.



.

[Mel279]

hi

I have a jollymotor 620ep which run using outrunner motor, 2185kv, does anyone know if I can use 4 cell lipo with that motor?

[ray schrauwen]

@What outrunner?? Size, make,,,

[Mel279]

@What outrunner?? Size, make,,,

Is a 28mm size outrunner with 3.17mm shaft, I have just run using another outrunner with the same size that my friend change the winding to suit for 4s, and I've change the esc using ezrun 60A esc(car esc), I remove the red wire and install an external ubec, FYI the esc is capable of running 3s max, I've tried using 4s, it works fine. One thing I like about this esc was that, when the motor overheat, it stop the boat, and in a min I can run it again and back to onshore. I also can set the punch level:thumbup:. Now Im going to remove the heatsink and replace with a watercool plate.