RIO EP or UL-1?

[erevo09]

hi, im getting my first boat but im having a hard time choosing between RIO EP and UL-1 and need some help... from what i have read both are excellent boats, however, UL-1 is much faster than RIO EP, which is what i like. i know UL-1 is more expensive but i have a feeling that i would want to upgrade right away if i was to get the RIO EP...

one thing i dont like about UL-1 is that it doesnt have a water proof box for the rx and servos... has that been an issue for this boat??

[Capt. Crash]

The UL-1 doesn't need a separate sealed box for the servo or other electrics. The tub design is great.....very easy to tape off for the seal and the only time I've ever had water inside was if the boat flipped and the batteries flew up and hit the hatch causing the tape to come unsealed. If you have the batteries down good that would not be an issue. The only other way to get water inside is a plumbing leak.

The UL-1 is now improved and a even better buy for the buck. Just my 2. :sold:

Crash

[erevo09]

The UL-1 doesn't need a separate sealed box for the servo or other electrics. The tub design is great.....very easy to tape off for the seal and the only time I've ever had water inside was if the boat flipped and the batteries flew up and hit the hatch causing the tape to come unsealed. If you have the batteries down good that would not be an issue. The only other way to get water inside is a plumbing leak.

The UL-1 is now improved and a even better buy for the buck. Just my 2. :sold:

Crash

thank you for your help.

do you have both? is RIO EP fast with lipos?

the UL-1s that are available now, are they all 2nd generation?

[Doby]

I have both and they are like comparing Apples to Oranges.

What's your preference?

A slightly more even comparison would be the UL-1 and the SV-27.

[erevo09]

I have both and they are like comparing Apples to Oranges.

What's your preference?

A slightly more even comparison would be the UL-1 and the SV-27.

i would prefer something that has more speed, by saying that, its not like i will be going full throttle all the time like crazy, i just wanna to be able to do so when i want to.

i prefer not to have to do any upgrades any time soon as i dont have access to lots of $...

i already have the lipos, so battery is not an issue for me.

the situation i have now is that i have purchased the RIO EP but have not opened it up yet as now i am thinking about getting UL-1 as it has more speed but its twice as expensive...

[Capt. Crash]

What size lipos do you plan to use?

[Doby]

Remember, the UL-1 only turns right well, not left.

[erevo09]

What size lipos do you plan to use?

i have these lipos:

2s 6000mah 28C lipo

or

3s 3300mah 20C lipo.

[erevo09]

Remember, the UL-1 only turns right well, not left.

i certainly did not know that. any chance you know why that is?

[Doby]

Thats how hyrdos are set up to run.........Hull style, turn fin mounting and offset rudder.....its the way it is.

Sounds like a SV-27 might be more suitable as it turns well in both directions and has a good turn of speed

[erevo09]

Thats how hyrdos are set up to run.........

Sounds like a SV-27 might be more suitable as it turns well in both directions

do you know the out-of-box speed differences between the 3 models?

[LiPo Power]

Hi
UL-1, UL-1, UL-1 !!!!!!
Wicked boat and no worries about electronics getting wet just tape the hutch well, charge the batts and off you go!!!!!
BDW, here is your answer:





hi, im getting my first boat but im having a hard time choosing between RIO EP and UL-1 and need some help... from what i have read both are excellent boats, however, UL-1 is much faster than RIO EP, which is what i like. i know UL-1 is more expensive but i have a feeling that i would want to upgrade right away if i was to get the RIO EP...
one thing i dont like about UL-1 is that it doesnt have a water proof box for the rx and servos... has that been an issue for this boat??

[erevo09]

i figure that the brushless setup (motor+ESC) for boats will cost like at least $100 right?

hydros run differently than the normal boats, i have to admit i like how a normal boats runs a little better especially when its turning!

super vee 27 looks good but i like the new 2.4 radio better as there is no antenna!

do the aluminum parts make big difference when it comes to boats?

i am really not sure at this point...

[Diesel6401]

do you know the out-of-box speed differences between the 3 models?

I have all 3, fastest I ever got my RIO is 18.3 and a 8.4v NIMH hump pack. That was with different motor and a different esc. I used a Traxxas XL-5 and Titan 12t.

My SV runs mid 30's all day and with a lipo shield for $35 it's a awesome boat. Just needs to be set up correctly. I swapped the stock Radio out with a 2.4 so I don't have the antenna sticking out. I took the RX/TX from the RIO. The radio system is the nicest part about the RIO, it also makes a good rescue boat.

My UL-1 runs low 40's but I haven't had it that long and I'm still working with properly setting it up. Most of the more experienced boaters are getting their UL-1s running 50s stock motor/esc with a prop change.

I'm still new to boating only been in it for a few months and you will out grow the RIO VERY VERY quickly. I say a SV is the best for your. UL-1 requires a little more skill and proper set-up and I think the SV would help with you to gain the knowledge you need to move on to the next level. Plus water conditions have to be good for the UL-1, to much chop and your screwed, but SV water conditions really don't matter. Hopefully this helps.

[Capt. Crash]

A pair of your 2s packs should work great in the UL-1. As for turning....yes the UL-1 is designed to run in one direction, but it will turn pretty well in the other direction too...just not at full power in a tight turn.

I've run mine in all conditions...if it's windy it can get airborne when running against the wind....but it runs even faster on the down leg, in those conditions. It can take rougher water than you might expect too....but it is at it's best in that slight ripple type of scenerio. We have several SV27s in our club and they do run pretty fast but also seem to flip pretty easy when trying to do a fast turn.

I'm one that always starts at the top and ends up working the way down as money allows. I would rather start there and be happy than be left wanting more and wishing I had got more....but that is just me.

Crash

[detox]

I wonder if Aquacraft upgraded the ESC of the UL-1 with more or better caps? If not I would add One more capacitor to be on the safe side. IMO the UL-1 is the better buy with it's new Tactic radio and faster speeds.


...

[LiPo Power]

I wonder if Aquacraft upgraded the ESC of the UL-1 with more or better caps? If not I would add One more capacitor to be on the safe side. IMO the UL-1 is the better buy with it's new Tactic radio and faster speeds.


...

...Mr. Grim somewhere here on OSE mentioned the new ESC will be reworked and it will have new, larger capacity cap installed.... :banana:

[Colby]

I just received my new UL-1 today. Not sure what cap the earlier UL-1s had but the new UL-1s have a Rubycon 35v 1500uF Z L: same brand as sold at Kintec Racing but rated 10 volts higher (Voltage Rating: 25VDC Capacitance: 1500µF).

[Capt. Crash]

I wonder if Aquacraft upgraded the ESC of the UL-1 with more or better caps? If not I would add One more capacitor to be on the safe side. IMO the UL-1 is the better buy with it's new Tactic radio and faster speeds.
...

I posted about that here with pics....the answer is YES. :thumbup1:

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=12373

[Grimracer]

old cap was a 25V 680uF

Thanks dudes for helping out our new boater bud!

Grim

[erevo09]

thanks everyone for your inputs on my questions.

i guess now i am choosing between SV27 and UL-1 now coz i just dont think RIO EP is fast enough for me unfortunately...

i have one other question: can anyone recommend a good rescue boat since i dont have a good boat retrieval system...

[Capt. Crash]

I use a modified Aquacraft tug for our club rescue/buoy duties..

[Diesel6401]

thanks everyone for your inputs on my questions.

i guess now i am choosing between SV27 and UL-1 now coz i just dont think RIO EP is fast enough for me unfortunately...

i have one other question: can anyone recommend a good rescue boat since i dont have a good boat retrieval system...

I use my RIO as a rescue boat. Works great, for a video of it type in Diesel6401 in youtube search and you will see it. Boat has been changed since the video by adding a few gram on weight to the back so the prop bites more, but you can get the idea. Here's a pic. Total price of rescue equipment was $15 at home depot. The headlamp was a few bucks at Harbor Freight. Like I mentioned earlier, with the purchase of a RIO EP you get a rescue boat and a 2.4ghz radio. The Tatic Rx/Tx is like $90 by itself, just swap tx/rx with your SV and RIO & its make the SV that much better. So with a total price of $150 for the RIO you get a rescue boat for $60, not a bad deal.

[Diesel6401]

thanks everyone for your inputs on my questions.

i guess now i am choosing between SV27 and UL-1 now coz i just dont think RIO EP is fast enough for me unfortunately...

i have one other question: can anyone recommend a good rescue boat since i dont have a good boat retrieval system...

What type of water will you be doing the majority of your running? If local pond with no major waves or rippels than either boat will work, if a larger lake or a place where their are waves than the ul-1 isn't the best boat for you.

[erevo09]

I use my RIO as a rescue boat. Works great, for a video of it type in Diesel6401 in youtube search and you will see it. Boat has been changed since the video by adding a few gram on weight to the back so the prop bites more, but you can get the idea. Here's a pic. Total price of rescue equipment was $15 at home depot. The headlamp was a few bucks at Harbor Freight. Like I mentioned earlier, with the purchase of a RIO EP you get a rescue boat and a 2.4ghz radio. The Tatic Rx/Tx is like $90 by itself, just swap tx/rx with your SV and RIO & its make the SV that much better. So with a total price of $150 for the RIO you get a rescue boat for $60, not a bad deal.

thanks for the pics, they look cool! what exactly did you get from home depot to make that thing to the boat??

to be honestly with it, i was gonna sell the RIO EP i bought since i have not opened it but it seems that i would need a rescue boat in case my boat stalls or flips (more likely now since i am getting sv27 or ul-1 - fast)

yeah swapping the radio system is definitely a good idea, 2.4 with no antenna is the way to go!!!

[Capt. Crash]

Very cleaver on the Rio use and the lights...I use the same type of rescue device on the tug to catch fast boats, but have a special floating line to snag sailboat keels and another line to snag the racing buoys. I also added a servo to allow me to drag and drop the buoys.

There are various videos of the tug in action here: http://vimeo.com/6245742

You may need to turn off the HD if it runns slow or choppy on your computer. The one I pointed to had a rescue of a crackerbox boat.

Crash

[erevo09]

What type of water will you be doing the majority of your running? If local pond with no major waves or rippels than either boat will work, if a larger lake or a place where their are waves than the ul-1 isn't the best boat for you.

its gonna be a lake i think, unless i can find another place to play it at... i dont remember if it has lots of waves/ripples though...

decision decision...

[Diesel6401]

thanks for the pics, they look cool! what exactly did you get from home depot to make that thing to the boat??
to be honestly with it, i was gonna sell the RIO EP i bought since i have not opened it but it seems that i would need a rescue boat in case my boat stalls or flips (more likely now since i am getting sv27 or ul-1 - fast)

yeah swapping the radio system is definitely a good idea, 2.4 with no antenna is the way to go!!!

It's just PVC piping from the plumbing aisle and the black foam is located in the same area then just zip-tie the foam around the piping so it doesnt slip off. you need 4 long pieces about the length of the boat a + fitting, 2 elbow fittings and 4 end caps and 2 stub pipes a few inches long and 2 plugs for the + fitting and 2 bunge cords. Print the picture I posted and take it with you to Home Depot it shouldn't take very long to find everything and it only take about 10ms to assemble. After you make it put either rtv sealant or duct tape around each fitting and joint so water doesn't leak in and flood the piping.

[Diesel6401]

its gonna be a lake i think, unless i can find another place to play it at... i dont remember if it has lots of waves/ripples though...

decision decision...

I would honestly suggest a SV to start out with. Just my opionon.

[Diesel6401]

Very cleaver on the Rio use and the lights...I use the same type of rescue device on the tug to catch fast boats, but have a special floating line to snag sailboat keels and another line to snag the racing buoys. I also added a servo to allow me to drag and drop the buoys.

There are various videos of the tug in action here: http://vimeo.com/6245742

You may need to turn off the HD if it runns slow or choppy on your computer. The one I pointed to had a rescue of a crackerbox boat.

Crash

Thanx, I was bored one day of work and had the boat in my SUV and slapped some leds on the headlight I broke onto it...lol. For the rescue setup I got the idea from someone on this site who posted a pic of a similar setup. I just modded it to fit the RIO better.

[Diesel6401]

thanks for the pics, they look cool! what exactly did you get from home depot to make that thing to the boat??

to be honestly with it, i was gonna sell the RIO EP i bought since i have not opened it but it seems that i would need a rescue boat in case my boat stalls or flips (more likely now since i am getting sv27 or ul-1 - fast)

yeah swapping the radio system is definitely a good idea, 2.4 with no antenna is the way to go!!!

On SV the just place a foam square under the cowl to cover up the existing hole where the antenna goes through and then place a small piece of hatch tape on the top of the cowl to cover the hole (wish I had a picture of the 2.4 installed but I dont). That's all I did and it works great no leaks even when upside, which by the way I drive happens a lot lol:tongue_smilie:

My SV is setup a lot better since those videos and I don't have the flipping issue as much.

[erevo09]

Very cleaver on the Rio use and the lights...I use the same type of rescue device on the tug to catch fast boats, but have a special floating line to snag sailboat keels and another line to snag the racing buoys. I also added a servo to allow me to drag and drop the buoys.

There are various videos of the tug in action here: http://vimeo.com/6245742

You may need to turn off the HD if it runns slow or choppy on your computer. The one I pointed to had a rescue of a crackerbox boat.

Crash

thanks for the vids and now i have some ideas of how to make it!

did you use the same material as Diesel6401?

by the way, how does your UL-1 run? i know that you only got it recently.

[erevo09]

thanks for the pics, they look cool! what exactly did you get from home depot to make that thing to the boat??

to be honestly with it, i was gonna sell the RIO EP i bought since i have not opened it but it seems that i would need a rescue boat in case my boat stalls or flips (more likely now since i am getting sv27 or ul-1 - fast)

yeah swapping the radio system is definitely a good idea, 2.4 with no antenna is the way to go!!!

On SV the just place a foam square under the cowl to cover up the existing hole where the antenna goes through and then place a small piece of hatch tape on the top of the cowl to cover the hole (wish I had a picture of the 2.4 installed but I dont). That's all I did and it works great no leaks even when upside, which by the way I drive happens a lot lol:tongue_smilie:

My SV is setup a lot better since those videos and I don't have the flipping issue as much.

thanks for the tips as i am VERY new to boats!!!

i have traxxas 2.4 radio system, i wonder if the traxxas rx will work with it?

i guess the first thing i should upgrade is the props right like it says on the website?

[Diesel6401]

thanks for the vids and now i have some ideas of how to make it!

did you use the same material as Diesel6841?

by the way, how does your UL-1 run? i know that you only got it recently.

Crash has the latest and greatest, i'm eager to hear results from him has well. I got mine for xmas, wife hooked me up. Only thing I added was a paint job, extra cap and a x440/3 prop and it runs good if conditions are right.

[erevo09]

Crash has the latest and greatest, i'm eager to hear results from him has well. I got mine for xmas, wife hooked me up. Only thing I added was a paint job, extra cap and a x440/3 prop and it runs good if conditions are right.

i like those monster decals!!!

does it really perform badly when the water is choppy??... all the videos i have seen for far have been pretty good.

[Diesel6401]

i like those monster decals!!!

does it really perform badly when the water is choppy??... all the videos i have seen for far have been pretty good.

In my opinion it does, if its wavey or more than a nice ripple I take the SV out. Its fun wave jumping the SV. I took the Ul out last week and had to bring it in after a 1 min run due to water conditions. Then I pulled the SV out and had some serious fun: In 4 of the videos on my youtube was the type of water conditions the Ul didn't like. The ones posted like 2 weeks ago or so, cant remember, not the best vid but will show you what the water was like. If you are going to run in similar water get the SV. This is an old pic, antenna removed and different tubing in the back plus a whole lot of war wounds in the paint now a days.

[Diesel6401]

[QUOTE=Diesel6401;155017]

thanks for the tips as i am VERY new to boats!!!

i have traxxas 2.4 radio system, i wonder if the traxxas rx will work with it?

i guess the first thing i should upgrade is the props right like it says on the website?

I started with th CF props, their not the overall best props in the world but they are for sure the best bang for your buck and way better than the stock prop. I have a CF40, CF42, CF45(my fav). You are going to have to put some hours into your SV to get it running good. You can find all the information for proper set up and questions on this site.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=Carbon+Props

[erevo09]

[QUOTE=Diesel6401;155017]

thanks for the tips as i am VERY new to boats!!!

i have traxxas 2.4 radio system, i wonder if the traxxas rx will work with it?

i guess the first thing i should upgrade is the props right like it says on the website?

I started with th CF props, their not the overall best props in the world but they are for sure the best bang for your buck and way better than the stock prop. I have a CF40, CF42, CF45(my fav). You are going to have to put some hours into your SV to get it running good. You can find all the information for proper set up and questions on this site.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=Carbon+Props

thanks for the info, that should be very useful once i get my hands on the boat.

how about the prop from the aquacraft's site?

AQUB9720

http://www.aquacraftmodels.com/boats/aqub17-aqub9720.jpg

[Diesel6401]

[QUOTE=Diesel6401;155117][QUOTE=erevo09;155061]

thanks for the info, that should be very useful once i get my hands on the boat.

how about the prop from the aquacraft's site?

AQUB9720

http://www.aquacraftmodels.com/boats/aqub17-aqub9720.jpg

Good prop, make sure you get it sharpened & balanced. You can't just buy that prop mount it and think its going to work. I don't s&b myself I buy them already S&B'd or have someone else do it for me. Lot of hours and skill in that.

[Diesel6401]

Being new to the hobby myself I have found these 3 websites my best friend.

1) OSE which your on
2) www.kintecracing.com
3) www.hobbycity.com

[Capt. Crash]

thanks for the vids and now i have some ideas of how to make it!

did you use the same material as Diesel6401?

by the way, how does your UL-1 run? i know that you only got it recently.

Yes I also use pvc pipe, but I cut swimming pool noodle to go over it...fits perfect.

My new UL-1 was bought for all the hardware and electrics for a vintage hydro I'm building...I sold the hull. My first UL-1 is dialed in and runs perfect...no need to get another one. I got one of the very first ones and it still has all the original electrics. There are a number of videos here and at my Vimeo site and there is also a great thread in the FE forum at rcgroups dedicated to the UL-1...lots of pics and videos too.

The conditions I run in are mostly pretty good, but the pond has a stone wall that the wake waves bounce off and add to the chop. I have gotten my boat airborne many times, but it always settles back on the water and continues on. The only time it has ever flipped was when it hit a buoy or when I was testing a new turn fin that didn't pan out. I have a lot of miles on it.

If you are running in a lake with big waves/wakes caused by full sized boats....then you will get airborne coming off them...but that is with any fast boat.

My only complaint about the UL-1 is that it runs too good...I can drop the hammer and never let up...until I get airborne or need to bring her in. But that is great for a newbie driver.

Crash

[Drag Boat Bob]

I'll have to add my vote for the UL-1. What an adrenaline rush to drive for a noob like me. As previously stated, it will get airborne in choppy water, but you will learn when and when not to head out.

I too use a tug for a rescue boat (idea taken from Crash) and it works very well, but I'm sure the Rio would work well also.

My favorite prop for the UL-1 is the L38x63 (50+mph). I have also had good luck with the L42x66 (52+mph), but watch the temps...

Good luck and have fun which ever one you choose.

Bob

[erevo09]

where is the cheapest place i can get a SV-27 or UL-1? whats the lowest price you have seen?

[Diesel6401]

Tower has a $20 off promotion ends 1/31/2010. That would make the SV $229.99 and UL $309.97. They also have $10 year super saver membership. If you sign up you get free shipping.

[BHChieftain]

thanks everyone for your inputs on my questions.

i guess now i am choosing between SV27 and UL-1 now coz i just dont think RIO EP is fast enough for me unfortunately...

i have one other question: can anyone recommend a good rescue boat since i dont have a good boat retrieval system...

I use a Traxxas Blast for a rescue boat. I put an eyehook on the back, and I tie a fishing line to it and then drive the boat around the boat to be rescued then reel her in...

Nice thing about the Blast- it has a steerable drive so it maneuvers really well under low speed.

-Chief

[Brushless55]

thanks everyone for your inputs on my questions.

i guess now i am choosing between SV27 and UL-1 now coz i just dont think RIO EP is fast enough for me unfortunately...

i have one other question: can anyone recommend a good rescue boat since i dont have a good boat retrieval system...

My vote goes to the SV27.. you will have alot of fun with this boat and it will get some good speeds with a different prop and good lipo packs
It's still one of my favorite boats to just go bash with.. :thumbup1:

[erevo09]

with sv27, what do you guys do when using lipos with it?

[Diesel6401]

with sv27, what do you guys do when using lipos with it?

Add a lipo shield., move the batteries forward. http://kintecracing.com/Supervee_27_upgrades.html

[erevo09]

Add a lipo shield., move the batteries forward. http://kintecracing.com/Supervee_27_upgrades.html

thanks man!

do you use the exactly one with your SV27? did ur boat ever get stalled because it ran out of juice?

i found this (for 2s lipos) on the internet, they should work right? but does that mean i gotta attach 2 of them since SV27 uses 2 batteries?

also, how do you connect the white connector to the read/black wires?

http://hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/catalog/batt-monitor-2S.jpg

man, i am getting my boat today and i am leaning towards SV27 than UL-1...

[Diesel6401]

I would lean towards the one i sent you the link for on kintec that already has the deans installed. That way you can take it out and put it in whenever you want. No you dont need two. If you get the one with the deans it has two connections. You plug the esc into the lipo shield and your batts into the esc. Give me a sec I'll take a pic. If you get the one you have listed you have to solder into the esc, not a big deal.

[erevo09]

I would lean towards the one i sent you the link for on kintec that already has the deans installed. That way you can take it out and put it in whenever you want. No you dont need two. If you get the one with the deans it has two connections. You plug the esc into the lipo shield and your batts into the esc. Give me a sec I'll take a pic. If you get the one you have listed you have to solder into the esc, not a big deal.

do you use the same one yourself?

by the look of the pic, i have to say those battery wires look very THIN, is that gonna be a problem?...

[Diesel6401]

do you use the same one yourself?

by the look of the pic, i have to say those battery wires look very THIN, is that gonna be a problem?...

Nope, I haven't had a single problem yet. I honestly never run my batts until the warning kicks in. I time my runs.

[Diesel6401]

Pic 1 is the esc plugging into the lipo shield
Pic 2 is the batt connections from the esc plugging into the lipo shield connections then you just connect your batt to the lipo shield

[erevo09]

Nope, I haven't had a single problem yet. I honestly never run my batts until the warning kicks in. I time my runs.

how much time do you think i can get out of TWO 2s 28C 6000mah lipos with sv27 with conservative throttle (stock setup)?

[Diesel6401]

If your running "conservative" watch your temps. Running half throttle really heats things up and the esc doesn't really like it that much. In terms of run time: http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/conversion.htm

[erevo09]

If your running "conservative" watch your temps. Running half throttle really heats things up and the esc doesn't really like it that much. In terms of run time: http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/conversion.htm

thanks, its a useful tool.

28C 6000mah only gives me 12 mins of run time.... was expecting more than that...

its just when i play rc, i do stop quite often, i dont normally run it for like 20 mins full throttle until the battery dies.

:laugh:

[Diesel6401]

its longer than you think. After 5-7 minutes Im ready to bring it in...

[erevo09]

its longer than you think. After 5-7 minutes Im ready to bring it in...

i dont quite understand for my rc trucks, a set of batteries can last me almost 1 hr if i play conservatively.

boats are different?

[Diesel6401]

i dont quite understand for my rc trucks, a set of batteries can last me almost 1 hr if i play conservatively.

boats are different?


Boats are power hungry. The constant friction/drag caused by water takes it toll on batteries and esc. You have to have a good "C" rating on your batts. I use 25C & 30C and I'm about to buy some 40C's. Because of this run time suffers.

[Brushless55]

thanks, its a useful tool.

28C 6000mah only gives me 12 mins of run time.... was expecting more than that...

its just when i play rc, i do stop quite often, i dont normally run it for like 20 mins full throttle until the battery dies.

:laugh:

Alot depends on what prop you use..
bigger props pull more amps, possibly 70-75amps with a CF48 like I use