IB3600 update

[sjslhill]

IB has caught on to the idea that the 3600 is a kick butt cell, so they sent us some reject IB4200 cells in IB3600 shrink. We had to reject them all and send them back.

Which leaves us with having to buy them from a US supplier and pay .65 a cell more for the same product.

So, there goes the good deal on these...:(


sorry,
Steve

[Steven Vaccaro]

Sounds to me like you have to just raise the price .65 cents. They are a more stable cell than the 4200, so its still a good value!

[sjslhill]

Just puts me one step closer to saying WTF on NIMH cells in the future. I am about at 1% now.

[saleens7]

thats OK with me, its only going to cost a few more bucks...

[sjslhill]

Go Lipo and forget junk a$$ NIMH cells, that's my suggestion.

[ReddyWatts]

I have worked for an electric utility for 27 years. They have drilled me about safety for all this time. I am going to stay with the NiMH cells until I hear more about the FE racing experiences with the potentially explosive Li-po cells.

[saleens7]

hmm....well, lipo would be lighter....ill see

[SweetZ28]

Hell try these very safe and are more power than lipos just a little lwer voltage..I seen them stick a nail through a charged cell and nothing happens!

http://www.a123racing.com/

[saleens7]

yeah, but will i need to get a special esc meant for these cells or will they work with traditional cells?

[SJFE]

You keep stockin them I'll keep buyin and promoting them. I'm not gona open a vein over 5 bucks a pack. Ain't nothin but a thing man.

[SweetZ28]

Hi the A123 cells work with standard esc's

[sjslhill]

A123 just signed a deal with Horizon, $20 a cell now.

[Doozie870]

Speaking of cells, my wcs are slowly creeping up in final voltage from 17.2 new to 18.4 now, is there any way to bring that back down? rezapping or something?, I will pay more for a durable cell also, building my 3600s tonight!

[sjslhill]

What I truly think has happend is IB, which does web research, has discovered the data that we have all be spreading and wants the IB3600 cell killed. I would not say this but I have been warned before. I am not sure why IB is even offering the IB3600 cell if they want it killed. Anyhow, IB just lost a major contract due to the 25% failure rate of IB4200 cells, which they claim has a two week shelf life if they are not charged. Yes, I stated 25% failure rate.

Do yourself a favor and go LiPoly.

There is a very limited amount of the good IB3600 cells left in the US.

[SJFE]

I'll be treating all 44 of mine like gold.

[SJFE]

Arte IB cells repackaged as oem cells for other brands like Fusion, Venom, Orion, Trinity and so on?

[RMZDADDY]

Mr. hill, I'm running two brushless setups, one with 24 cells, the other with 16. Can you recommend any li-polys you carry to meet my needs? I'm feeling less comfortable about buying any more IB cells!

[RMZDADDY]

I'm hoping that my 48 4200's and 74 3800's hold up a little longer!

[Doozie870]

That was my next question SJ, are there other brands, or is everything crap now? not quite ready for lipo just yet, my boats take on to much H2O lol.

[sjslhill]

It's my opinion that we are totally unsure of the future of NIMH cells, most are junk and built for 6 cell car racing. They do not care if a cell fails. If your running large packs in boats with these cells, most likly you will see a failure.

As for running LiPoly

Amp data is needed to determine the needs. most high amps systems need 20C and or 30C packs in parallel to meet the requirments.

Thunder Power / Poly RC / Enerland / Polyquest ect can be used......

All of which are Enerland cells.

[sjslhill]

Trinty sells IB and GP, both are junk
Orion sells junk
SMC sells junk
Fusion cells are junk

All of these compaines do not care if cells are failing, I have tested all of these cells and you can ask Steven V as well. Orion, Trinity, SMC and Fusion cells are are prone to fail.



Arte IB cells repackaged as oem cells for other brands like Fusion, Venom, Orion, Trinity and so on?

[saleens7]

......are there ANY nimh cells that arent junk anymore???

[Doozie870]

Well looks like Ill have to dive in, if you ever wanted a unsuger coated lipo guinea pig youve found it.

[saleens7]

i think i may have to also....luckily the gear in my SW36 (shockwave 36) is cheap....

[sjslhill]

Nope, not that I aware of. We have 400 of the older IB3600 cells coming in this week. The latest IB3600 cells fresh from the factory were rejected IB4200 cells. We know this from the shape, weight, size and performance. Our supplier acted totally ignorant of the problem. You have to understand that R/C industry has been crooked for years with round cells. They are really screwing people at this point. Maybe it's to force the racers to go LiPoly.

[SJFE]

Yeah Dooz it's something we Nimh guys need to think about now. I quit buyin cells from every one but Bp & OSE. So if the 3600s go I'll have no choice but to join the dark side......I hear the music playing in the backround now.......:cool:

[saleens7]

looks like i wont be able to use IB's in the SW36 anymore....i think im going to HAVE to use lipo's now....

[sjslhill]

Current there are 4 suppliers that manufacture NIMH cells for racing

GP
Vigor (EP cells)
IB
Grepow (Elite)

All of these cells are prone to failing.

The IB3600 cell was the only one that would not fail and they have #$&^#E it up now.

[Doozie870]

Steve, I thought you were gonna be more diplomatic in your posts? :D

[SJFE]

So is this the last 400 you are gona get?

[SJFE]

Diplomacy would have been out the window long ago if I had to put up with that kinda BS.

[saleens7]

i think this may be the end of the nimh world as we know it....i really hope IB starts mass producing their 3600's....i cant tell you how many projects im going to have to completely re-think becuase im going to have to use lipo's now...

[ice329]

24 = Mine/My Brothers... heheh

I just recieve 4 great matched 3600 BattlePacks today. All I can say is they out GPSed the LiPo's by 3 MPH. There awsom thanks Steve.

[sjslhill]

I have 400 more of the older cells, but I need to test them once they arrive before announing that we have good cells. Long term, be thinking of going LiPoly.

[sjslhill]

I have no idea what the future holds.....I know that you can buy good LiPoly packs from many sources. The NIMH people have choosen to screwing everyone. You have to understand that R/C is a small piece of what we do. We build 20 cell packs for applications and the IB3600 cell was the only one that would work, now that's screwed up. We went through 1000 cells in 10 days.

[ReddyWatts]

Steve, I thought you said you could still get the good cells, but they were .65 cents higher? Is this no longer true?

"Which leaves us with having to buy them from a US supplier and pay .65 a cell more for the same product."

[sjslhill]

I have 400 coming in, yes....but I look out further than 400 cells. I don't want people planning on these cells only to find out they are gone in 2 weeks or so.

[ReddyWatts]

That is really sad that we will not be able to get good NiMH cells anymore. If I am forced to go Li-Polly, I could consider getting out of the electric boat hobby. Why have my kids around dangerous batteries???

[sjslhill]

You can run NIMH, you will just have to realize that cells are going to fail on you.

Run small classes and build 6 cell packs in side by side and use discharge trays.

[Rex R]

mayhap hobbico & traaxas ought to have a chat with the batt suppliers. they are the ones who will be hurting(along with the consumer) if nobody can run their products.

[properchopper]

The "handwriting is on the wall" for me & sadly I've read it. I have begun my lipo conversion. I don't want to continually re-invest in a technology [nimh] which , among other things, is no longer viable for racing. P-mono is now, if you want to be competative, a lipo race. And since lipos by virtue of their higher capacity-to-weight ratio allow hotter setups, I'll need a bigger boat to stay on the water ; the 12-cell nimh Titan 29 is now blowing over in race trim & with lipos will prove more of a handfull. Word is that the nimh larger Q-mono hulls are now more suitable for P-mono/lipo setups. And I just bought the Titan 29 !!! { I'll keep running LSO with nimh, but will use my best IB's for that} Mr. Hill has done me right, and my new charger & power supply is on the way. Now to wait for a few more paychecks for the cells & balancers. Money I'd rather spend on a new project, but Oh well ! :(

[ReddyWatts]

FE may become an "Adults Only" hobby, if there are not any good/reliable NiMH cells anymore. The NiMH 4200's have a 25% percent shelf failure rate? I cant see 12 y/o kids repairing their own battery packs or charging Li-Poly batteries. This could really hurt the FE industry. I hope a manufacturer will see the need to continue making good/reliable 3600 NiMH batteries

[sjslhill]

Oh there are junk sport cells out there that will run trucks, they are not going to run boats very well. Hobbico does not care if cells fail, more sales of packs.

Someone might try some GP3900 cells if they can find some, I have never tested that cell.



mayhap hobbico & traaxas ought to have a chat with the batt suppliers. they are the ones who will be hurting(along with the consumer) if nobody can run their products.

[SJFE]

FE may become an "Adults Only" hobbyFE is all ready an adult only hobby. The only 12 year old kids who have properly set up boats...have fathers who built them. The exception is kids who have SV's bought for them. IMO kids arent what FE needs..It's more adults.

[sjslhill]

Just found some more older IB3600 cells, when I say old I am taking recent but not the newest stuff that we sent back. I'll test some of the 400 tomorrow. I have tested some of these recently and they showed lower RT but higher voltage. No soft shorts either.

[SJFE]

I for one will only be picking up maybe 2 more sets of six cell packs for the SV. I'm going to start adding lipos to the inventory now.

[ReddyWatts]

There are a lot of RTR electric boats out there designed for NiMH cells and kids.
If the new NiMH's are dying just sitting on the shelf for a short period of time, then I hope someone continues to make a good/reliable cell that can handle boat applications. Li-Poly is not a good solution here. Lets not leave the kids out or get them hurt. Everything was looking up for electric boats and now it seems to be taking a bad turn.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/categories.php?cat=8

[sjslhill]

NIMH was never a good solution for sitting on the shelf. Once we got past the GP3300, problems started showing up. The IB3600 showed promise but we may never see good ones of those again. All the problems were driven by Trinity, SMC, Orion and the race for the highest voltage possible. Now the cells are like NASCAR motors, run them and toss them

[SJFE]

Yeah tossem @ 150k+..And then cry about the speck car being expensive..But thats another forum..and gripe of mine..lol

[ReddyWatts]

There should be more RTR brushless boat models coming out. What batteries will they be using?

[SJFE]

Well I guess the ones who don’t do any research will learn the hard way. Who knows...maybe the manufacturers will take note and come up with oem batteries that are reliable....lol

[sjslhill]

If I was designing RTR boats, I would make sure it's LiPoly ready for the future. :)



There should be more RTR brushless boat models coming out. What batteries will they be using?