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View Full Version : Turnigy Cells Crush G3's



detox
12-20-2009, 04:29 PM
I quote "Capacity and initial voltage are above G3. Proving once again the evils of big brand marketing" unquote.

Look here: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5158


...

Brod
12-20-2009, 04:48 PM
Turnigy lipos are 'underated' in capacity meaning a 2200mah pack is actually approx. 2400mah,therefore appearing to give better performance all round.
Not a bad thing.
My 6S 3000 packs actually put back more than the 'full' mah when recharging,and still show about 3.7v resting volts when depleted.
Decent cells,so far.

Jeff Wohlt
12-20-2009, 04:52 PM
I don't disagree but the real proof is voltage when pulling 100+ amps out out of them. I have round cells that show more voltage but when a load goes on them they drop.

Just my 2 cents...maybe you have already loaded them up and tested.

Raydee
12-20-2009, 08:53 PM
I have run them against my G3 cells and sorry they just don't compare.

Fluid
12-20-2009, 09:31 PM
Nice advertising copy, since the initial poster essentially works for HobbyKing! For those who didn't bother to read beyond the first post:

It's ONE test on a brand new battery at a relatively low 20C discharge rate.
The real test is how the Turnigy holds up:
1) After a few charges and it has bedded in (It is possible to make a battery that performs well initially and then decays - not saying this is true here!)
2) At higher discharge rates like 35C which is the actual continuous rating of the cell.
3) In the long term - that is after 100's of cycles.
All of these are areas where the G3's are proven after extensive testing by 3rd parties and for which they are valued.
In short, it's a promising result and great news that we are seeing this performance at HK prices but it is a while before HK can claim "TURNIGY Lithium Polymer Battery destroys the competition!"

The Turdigy cells may be the bestthing since sliced bread for helis and cars, but for marine use the jury is out.


.

photohoward1
12-20-2009, 10:11 PM
I don't get it. The G3 cells gave more voltage. The Mah is not going to win you a race. It might loose you a race without good management but won't add any speed. Speed or RPM comes from a higher voltage. Did I read the chart wrong?

HT

tth
12-20-2009, 10:56 PM
The Turdigy cells may be the bestthing since sliced bread

.

Now thats just funny I don't care who you are!!!:rofl:

BakedMopar
12-20-2009, 10:59 PM
I beleive for low to medium amp draw they hold up fine and can't be beat for the price. These are the only brand of lipos I own as of now. The first three runs on my 2200 packs were awesome. After that they became sluggish and have puffed. I will try to give the G3s a shot and give my honest opinion on them.

detox
12-21-2009, 12:30 AM
Here's original tread from RCGROUPS.COM http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1160946

Himalaya
12-21-2009, 04:49 AM
Turnigy has obiously more capacity than other similar rated packs, here's what I found:

I compaired two 6S packs, both are brand new. At 3.2A discharge(due to 80W discharge limit of my charger) and 3.0V/cell LVC,
my Turnigy 5000mAh delivers 5184mAh , 104% of norminal
my Hyperion G3 VX4200mAh delivers 4043mAh. 96% of nominal.

I thought this maybe the answer for why Turnigy packs are heavier.

Fluid
12-21-2009, 07:25 AM
I beleive for low to medium amp draw they hold up fine and can't be beat for the price....The first three runs on my 2200 packs were awesome. After that they became sluggish and have puffed...

Now this I do not understand. The packs"hold up fine" but yours only lasted three cycles? What amp draw did you subject them to? What experience do you have showing them to be fine at "medium amp draw"? What do you consider to be "medium amp draw"? Are they better cells than the Rhinos, etc.? I'm not trying to be mean here, just trying to understand these new bargain wonder cells. Basing a buying decision on a chart supplied by the distributor which contains a rather dubious analysis is not the path of the thinking FE boater.



./

Rumdog
12-21-2009, 09:09 AM
I have had excellent results with Turnigy lipos in high amp draw setups. Can't beat them for the price. I will not spend 2 to 3 times the cash for big brand lipos. NEVER>

BakedMopar
12-21-2009, 12:39 PM
Now this I do not understand. The packs"hold up fine" but yours only lasted three cycles? What amp draw did you subject them to? What experience do you have showing them to be fine at "medium amp draw"? What do you consider to be "medium amp draw"? Are they better cells than the Rhinos, etc.? I'm not trying to be mean here, just trying to understand these new bargain wonder cells. Basing a buying decision on a chart supplied by the distributor which contains a rather dubious analysis is not the path of the thinking FE boater.



./

When I mean low to medium amp draw I am talking about it use in my rc trucks and my stock SV27. I have had over 60 cycles on my 5000 20-30c batteries I am going to guess that the amp draw is somewhere in the 50 amp range on average based on run time in the SV, but have no logger to officially document that. With my SC10 I was averaging 25 min of run time an average of 12-15 amps. Packs were always under 120* They still was as powerfull as the day I got em.

Now that I have a different setup in the SV, I now pull a constant of 75 amps with spikes of 100 on average. This is with a logger. Batteries now comes out of the boat at 150* average and are starting to show some wear. The cells have a larger voltage gap between each cell. They also dont hold the votage as well. Even my new packs 30-40c packs are slowly falling off with about a dozen cycles.


My mini hydro pulls over 65 amps consant (also calculated with run time). Due to the size of this boat biggest Turnigy that fits is the 2200 size. The packs that I got was the 30-40c rating. Was looking for the 40-50c but they was all out of stock. I knew I would be cutting it close but for the price it was worth a try. The first set of runs ran great with a lot of power. Temps were blazing on the batteries with a 180* average with a X632. Using the smallest prop I have (x427) it still heat up to 165* on a two minute run. I know for sure that this battery does not fit this application. Being that they are overdrawn after 3-4 runs they are much slower and 3 have puffed. Two of them puffed just slightly were they return back to normal after cooled. The other one is a gonners.


I am not complaining that Turnigy's are bad. To me they are worth every penny you pay for them. They are just not right for my application. Hyperion has a 2600 35-65c battery that will fit. If Turnigy/Zippy offered something similar I would stick with Turnigy/Zippy but they don't so I need to jump ship.

All of my boats have a LVC of 3.3v per cell. Batteries are all charged on a Hyperion 1210i charger with a LBA10a balancer @ 1c.


BTW no offesnse taken. These are just my findings and opinions.

Brod
12-21-2009, 02:02 PM
You will struggle to find any lipo at any price point to constantly stand up to 30C constant usage,especially in a tight confines of a sealed hull.
If the link provided at the start of this thread IS genuinely written by a connected HK employee,he also states;
'2200 mah Hyperion Vx and 2200mah Turnigy both warm up to 80 celsius on 75A. It means that they are ruined in couple of cycles'.

IMO the technology isnt quite there yet for huge output from small lightweight cells AND big cycle numbers.

2 min. runs to me seems pointless unless its a SAW boat and ruining cells doesnt matter.

BakedMopar
12-21-2009, 02:22 PM
Well 2 minute runs wasn't what I wanted either. That's just the way the boat was setup when I got it. Hell it's fast though and I quote from your sig "slow gets boring fast"

Brod
12-21-2009, 02:26 PM
LOl,i thought you might pick up on the 'slow gets boring thing' :bounce:

bustitup
12-26-2009, 10:48 PM
FOR ALL THE DIE HARDS THAT THINK TURNIGY JUST CANT KEEP UP

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25041

Punisher 67
12-27-2009, 12:03 AM
Just listening in , great info and topic guys . Will be looking for replacement lipo's this spring for some of my high amp draw systems . Always looking for a balance between power and economy....$$$$$$$$$$$ . Was seriously looking at the G3's but who knows whats going to happen months from now

andym
12-27-2009, 12:48 AM
Guys I forked out the hard earned for some G3 lipo's, puffed two first run, third on its second run and the fourth I gave away for free. I use Zippy flight max 5000mah 4s 30c packs in the same boats, same set ups and have had NO problems at all. With a cost of under $60 what more can I say

Ub Hauled
12-27-2009, 04:50 AM
.....what more can I say

tell me about your avatar... well chosen.

Well, I have had good experiences with the Flightmax 5000 30c...
it's been reliable in a UL setup, not much drain there though...
it does not have the same punch that a new Elite 35c has, there is a noticeable difference... but then again, not the same C rate. I have not tried the G3 cells, there have been too many mixed reviews about it and decided not to go for it. My cream of the crop is the new TP 45c cell, I am looking forward to unleash that puppy.
I also have the Rhino 20c packs that I use as a 10s2p and there is ONE cell in one of the 5s packs that just does not wanna cooperate... it's considerably lower then the rest of it... maybe I can figure something out to make it work again, not sure how it got to be that low since I don't use those packs too often, but I also know that they are cheap packs and something like it is expected.

Anyway, the FM packs are working fine so far, in a low amp draw scenario.

Fluid
12-27-2009, 09:31 AM
Guys I forked out the hard earned for some G3 lipo's, puffed two first run, third on its second run and the fourth I gave away for free....what more can I say

With several dozen G3 packs in HOTMBC boats - all full-race packs pushed hard for months - not a single problem has occurred. I guess all I can say is that some folks can screw-up an anvil...........;)




.

bustitup
12-27-2009, 09:40 AM
With several dozen G3 packs in HOTMBC boats - all full-race packs pushed hard for months - not a single problem has occurred. I guess all I can say is that some folks can screw-up an anvil...........;)




.

apply enough heat and mix it with a little air.......and even an anvil will melt:iagree:

Raydee
12-27-2009, 10:46 AM
I own a couple DOZEN myself and no puffs or problems whatsoever.

Eodman
12-27-2009, 11:16 AM
Andy you must have gotten the above the equator version G3's ---- the electrons were moving in the wrong direction that's all!

andym
12-27-2009, 07:46 PM
I guess all I can say is that some folks can screw-up an anvil...........
I have been doing this for a while now, so just for *!***!***!***!**s and giggles I will tell you that the packs I purchased were crap. This is MY experience with these cells. If you do not like it STIFF $HIT.I know that the setups are not to hot, run times not to long and LV set correctly. As the cheaper cells handle the SAME set ups OK I suggest you just accept that like everything quality can vary greatly.

Raydee
12-27-2009, 08:30 PM
Andy, sorry to hear you had such bad luck with your G3 packs. I have recommended these packs to everyone I know, I hope others aren't having the same problems? I know David K. bought some too, I wonder how he liked them?

andym
12-27-2009, 08:34 PM
Ray I got mine as soon as they hit the market, I have heard that some of the first ones were not up to scratch.

Punisher 67
12-27-2009, 09:16 PM
Andrew this is my take on things , even high end manufacturers produce there .5% or less Monday and Friday substandard crap . I special ordered a 2220/1.5Y from Neu and got a motor that was a little less than there level of advertised quality . the only saving grace was the fact I had the machinery to correct someone else's neglect and sloppy workmanship . to put it blunt everyone takes a crap once in a while unfortunately we get burn't thinking we are buying the best there is . I for one am certainly open to trying the Turnagy cell just for the price they can be bought for

BIGDG357
12-27-2009, 09:49 PM
I had a set of the turnigy 3s packs and both packs just died one died mid run in a boat the remaining of the set was used to power a traxxas stampede this one also died in the middle of a run in both cases the batteries were not even warm . I have heard of this problem from others also after doing the research after the first one died . I am using zippys now with no problems at all .Just thought I'd throw that out there I mean what are the chances of 2 packs failing in the same way

ozzie-crawl
12-27-2009, 10:04 PM
have you opened the packs up for a look. if you do do so carfully.
i run turnigy cells and think dollar for dollar cant be beat,i cant see a battry worth 5x more is going to be 5x better.
i have seen one of the turnigy packs work for half a run and stop,after a carful look my mate found one cell wasnt soldered properly across the tag,after a quick solder it works fine

wolf IV
12-27-2009, 10:06 PM
bigdg, what turnigy packs were they? c-rating? did you ballance them ? also how many cycles? after it died did you find out the cause for thr failure? i.e. dis assy pack to find?? check voltage per cell? i have yet to have a bad turbigy, but their all high c rated and high mah..

wolf IV
12-27-2009, 10:08 PM
have you opened the packs up for a look. if you do do so carfully.
i run turnigy cells and think dollar for dollar cant be beat,i cant see a battry worth 5x more is going to be 5x better.
i have seen one of the turnigy packs work for half a run and stop,after a carful look my mate found one cell wasnt soldered properly across the tag,after a quick solder it works fine

woops, beat me to it... ;)

m4a1usr
12-27-2009, 10:09 PM
I had a set of the turnigy 3s packs and both packs just died one died mid run in a boat the remaining of the set was used to power a traxxas stampede this one also died in the middle of a run in both cases the batteries were not even warm . I have heard of this problem from others also after doing the research after the first one died . I am using zippys now with no problems at all .Just thought I'd throw that out there I mean what are the chances of 2 packs failing in the same way

There was a thread on RRR about odd cell packs being worse then even due to the fact that the manufacturer splices a smaller ga wire onto the larger main negative lead as the pack end comes from the opposite side. I havent done a comparison study but I wonder if that might not what we are seeing from certain manufacturers on occasion? Maybe those with what they consider junk or less then premium packs should do a visual inspection and see if theres a pattern here.

John

BIGDG357
12-27-2009, 10:24 PM
I have not, but I have actually posted about the problem on an earlier thread which I'm not sure on exactly where but one of the members tth was so kind as to take a look at it for me not sure what exactly he found ,maybe he can chime in but he was feeling unsafe with the opened pack so I told him to trash it and I would not know where to begin repairing one. I don't really see a battery worth 5x more is going to be 5x better either so I have been ordering zippys 3s 40c 5000mah for 45 usd and I have just recently ordered 4 2s packs 30c 4500mah for 25 usd definitly worth a shot if they blow and I replace them I still didn't spend as much as I would have on maxx amp packs.

BIGDG357
12-27-2009, 10:30 PM
bigdg, what turnigy packs were they? c-rating? did you ballance them ? also how many cycles? after it died did you find out the cause for thr failure? i.e. dis assy pack to find?? check voltage per cell? i have yet to have a bad turbigy, but their all high c rated and high mah..

the packs were 3s packs 35c 5000mah , I balance my packs on every charge w/ my hyperion duo and the first pack died on the first run in about 45 seconds .The second pack has maybe 5 cycles ...maybe

wolf IV
12-27-2009, 10:39 PM
ive experienced the higher the c- rating ( wich doesnt cost much more and even cheaper in the turigy the better quality. he should have located the bad cell and disposed of it, then you have a good pack but just lower v. for another toy ;) this is what i do, infact i have 6-8 , 25 c packs i puffed ( my fault) testing motors in my plane that ill tear apart and re-build into 4's packs instead of 3's.. its easy! "you can do it"!

BIGDG357
12-27-2009, 10:46 PM
Is there a diagram on the wiring that i can use I still have the 2nd pack if nothing else I can learn off of it, I try to do every thing myself I just don't know much about the lipo packs

tth
12-27-2009, 10:54 PM
I have not, but I have actually posted about the problem on an earlier thread which I'm not sure on exactly where but one of the members tth was so kind as to take a look at it for me not sure what exactly he found ,maybe he can chime in but he was feeling unsafe with the opened pack so I told him to trash it and I would not know where to begin repairing one. I don't really see a battery worth 5x more is going to be 5x better either so I have been ordering zippys 3s 40c 5000mah for 45 usd and I have just recently ordered 4 2s packs 30c 4500mah for 25 usd definitly worth a shot if they blow and I replace them I still didn't spend as much as I would have on maxx amp packs.


Once I opened the pack there was a fluid all over the bottom of all 3 cellsl. It was not puffed but the bottom seam on the middle cell was open. Really smelly!!! There was a circuit board that the tabs were all soldered to. I have repaired many of my cheap packs that I bought when I first started the hobby.True RC and Elite mostly. They were all easy repairs 4s to 3s or 3s to 2s. After all the discussion on these Flightmax and Turnigy cells I may have to try some.

tth
12-27-2009, 11:00 PM
ive experienced the higher the c- rating ( wich doesnt cost much more and even cheaper in the turigy the better quality. he should have located the bad cell and disposed of it, then you have a good pack but just lower v. for another toy ;) this is what i do, infact i have 6-8 , 25 c packs i puffed ( my fault) testing motors in my plane that ill tear apart and re-build into 4's packs instead of 3's.. its easy! "you can do it"!


Exactly what I did but the circuit board on the top that all the tabs are soldered to prevented me from doing the conversion. If the middle cell is not there it is an incomplete series. It would not been bad if it was the 1st or 3rd cell but it was the 2nd right in the middle. With the 2nd pack being open at the seam on the bottom I was uncertian of its possibilities.

wolf IV
12-27-2009, 11:27 PM
Exactly what I did but the circuit board on the top that all the tabs are soldered to prevented me from doing the conversion. If the middle cell is not there it is an incomplete series. It would not been bad if it was the 1st or 3rd cell but it was the 2nd right in the middle. With the 2nd pack being open at the seam on the bottom I was uncertian of its possibilities.

i understand now! (all) the ones i deal with have been " circuit board free". its a little tricky to figure out rewiring all the ballancer leads, but circuit boards????

tth
12-27-2009, 11:32 PM
Balance leads are a piece of cake. When I saw that circuit board :confused: then when I noticed the fluid coming out of the middle cell with the split in it :eek: all I could think of was..............:flashfire:

BIGDG357
12-27-2009, 11:33 PM
i understand now! (all) the ones i deal with have been " circuit board free". its a little tricky to figure out rewiring all the ballancer leads, but circuit boards????

I peeled the wrapping seen the board and pretty much gave up there, that was my problem not exactly simple circiutry

Jeepers
12-28-2009, 12:23 AM
man I must be lucky, I have only killed ONE Polyquest lipo pack, that was due to a magnets coming apart in the motor. Now NiMh cells............

I don't think I will try Turnigy, the esc,servos and batteries that club members bought and tried, are all fried.

I have good luck with Hyperion G3 cells, Polyquests and Poly Rc, and Neu. and for the money Rhinos performed very good for me as well.

tiqueman
12-28-2009, 02:07 AM
Interesting what everyone has to say about different batteries. I purchased 3 Turnigy packs back in mid September. I got a 3S 20-30C and two 2S 30-40C packs. I might have 10 cycles on the 3S and 15 on both 2S. So far Ive had great success and am very impressed with them. Not that they have been mentioned, and honestly, Im not even sure how they rate as they are the only packs the LHS had when I purchased my first FE boat, but I have a pair of 2S 5000mah Reedy hard case packs. $100 each and I had one puff on the 3rd or 4th cycle. The LHS nor Reedy would do anything about it. I purchased another Reedy and so far have had no more issues. That was back in June or July. But to compare those against the Turnigys, In a 32" cat, BJ26 ESC and motor, Pair of Reedy 2S 5000 pushed it 39 and change. Same ratings in Turnigy got another almost 2mph. That was impressive enough for me. Im working on gathering parts for my next build and I plan on using Turningy 4 or 5S packs.

Just wanted to share my experiences with the Lipos Ive run....

Scott

Simon.O.
12-28-2009, 02:52 AM
Ok so I'll jump in here.
I have an amazing ability to destroy stuff. ESC's and packs are my speciality.:cursing:
I have rooted a few Zippy's and a couple of Rhinos too.
I have managed to puff Polyquest and Flightpower packs too.

Now here is where I sit.
I have bought a few new Turnigy packs and did so because they are the best bang for the buck there is.
I have 2 that I have done some very unkind things with and they still love me.

I would never be bold enough to say that they are as good or better than the high end packs like the G3.
They are hardy and suit what I do. They are my choice of pack.

When the last of my zippies and polys die I will replace them with Turnigy. Not because they are the best but because they are good value for money and I have not poked one yet. That will make one die now for sure

Go with the G3 or better if you are after all out speed, go with the Turnigy if you are after bang for buck. I have done both and know which side my bread is buttered. :thumbup1:

Xzessperated
12-28-2009, 05:02 AM
Guys I forked out the hard earned for some G3 lipo's, puffed two first run, third on its second run and the fourth I gave away for free. I use Zippy flight max 5000mah 4s 30c packs in the same boats, same set ups and have had NO problems at all. With a cost of under $60 what more can I say

Andy the only change you made was to throw out the puffed G3's, and give me one to puff, so it would appear that the Zippy anvil is a stronger anvil than the G3 anvil. I had the same thing happen to 2 Elite packs and replaced them with Zippy and if there is a speed difference then my gps can not detect it. Mind you I can not drive a straight line and my DF 33 is slow so what would I know.
I am not saying that the majority of G3's are bad. Far from it. I think you just got the bad ones. It is always a good time to go shopping after I have been because I take all the duds home with me too. eg. my DX3S but that is another story and way off track.

andym
12-28-2009, 05:39 AM
Mind you I can not drive a straight line and my DF 33 is slow so what would I know
Mate the straight line thing is a fact !!! But your boats are not slow !!!! If any peanut on here disputes the 70mph DF33 then they have not seen a boat going 70mph!!! Back to the lipo dispute, Some time ago there was a huge gain to be had from running $$$$$ lipo's but the tech has bleed out and now you can get great lipo for a lot cheaper than the name brands. A lot of folk still swear by the expensive ones and you would if it cost you $600 for three packs and a dick head like myself is running just as quick for $150. I think they just have to get over the I spent more cash than you crap.

properchopper
12-28-2009, 02:06 PM
One thing that absolutely drives me nuts ( besides the steering wheel on my belly) is the fact that, when comparing specs such as "C" ratings, there has been no discussion of agreed upon standardized parameters disclosed by battery brands for testing such concepts. I can absolutely guarantee that by varying the testing conditions or how a rating is expressed, any results that you want can be obtained. This is unfortunately very common in amplifier power ratings - Jan can back me up on this. Until testing parameters are universally established [unlikely], trusting specs should be taken with a grain of salt. One thing that seems to be overlooked is the gap between "continuous" and "max/burst" ratings. If you look closely, the so-called better packs normally have the "max/burst" rating at TWICE the "continuous" rating whereas Turnigys only add 5 or 10 "C's" to the "max/burst" rating. That should tell you something !
[I have lots of Turnigys and really like them, BTW.] OTOH, I'm currently tuning 2 boats for 4 minute offshore heats and will only rely on the "high end" brands for this. Just some food for thought.

domwilson
12-28-2009, 02:51 PM
Agreed. Up until 1997 there were some standards for amplifier power ratings. Then came multimedia devices (powered speaker, home theater, etc.) and those standards got thrown out the window. Now there are various trains of thought for many electrical devices including batteries. One is to inflate specs for marketing purposes and the other is to be conservative for stability and longevity. You can't rely on brand name as some have chosen either route. Word of mouth and some unbias'd reviews work best for these kinds of results. Best thing is to do your homework. Ask questions, do some research. When I started using Lipos, Polyquest and Elites were the top brands. Now I read a few times that they are not so great. So for the relatively low price of Turnigy, Rhino's and Zippy's, if they aren't so great, it doesn't hurt so much to find that out later on.

properchopper
12-28-2009, 03:13 PM
Agreed. Up until 1997 there were some standards for amplifier power ratings. Then came multimedia devices (powered speaker, home theater, etc.) and those standards got thrown out the window. Now there are various trains of thought for many electrical devices including batteries. One is to inflate specs for marketing purposes and the other is to be conservative for stability and longevity. You can't rely on brand name as some have chosen either route. Word of mouth and some unbias'd reviews work best for these kinds of results. Best thing is to do your homework. Ask questions, do some research. When I started using Lipos, Polyquest and Elites were the top brands. Now I read a few times that they are not so great.

Thank you Sir for concurring ! !

So for the relatively low price of Turnigy, Rhino's and Zippy's, if they aren't so great, it doesn't hurt so much to find that out later on.

Unless the hurt comes three minutes into a four minute race !!

domwilson
12-28-2009, 03:44 PM
Unless the hurt comes three minutes into a four minute race !!

True. There are exceptions.