Starship Rigger

[hide]

Anyone using one of these? Someone linked me to one, not too keen about what electronics it comes with but 50+mph with a no brand ESC and motor is impressive for something so small.

I don't really know what is good and what isn't in the boat world when it comes to hulls so would like some advice here...

http://www.heathsrcmodels.co.uk/images/starship3.jpg

http://www.heathsrcmodels.co.uk/starship.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJjAcYjrRY&feature=player_embedded

If I was to buy one what would be a good replacement for the motor and ESC, what kind of prop am I looking at?

If its not too great, are there any other small riggers out there which are good for a beginner?

Jacob

[hide]

No one?

[BakedMopar]

Kinda looks like the tenshock ones ( minicatracing-USA ).

[m4a1usr]

If its not too great, are there any other small riggers out there which are good for a beginner?

Jacob

Riggers are not your typical beginners hull to start driving with. If they truely are fast speed requires judgement. Something the typical beginner lacks. Stick with a Mono or more stable Cat until you get the basic driving skills/control burned into your brain.

John

[graill]

Riggers are not your typical beginners hull to start driving with. If they truely are fast speed requires judgement. Something the typical beginner lacks. Stick with a Mono or more stable Cat until you get the basic driving skills/control burned into your brain.

John

John brings up a spectacular point. Many years ago (many decades, mid 70's i think) i remember a young lad whom thought he could control a "simple" hi speed rig. To make a long story short, on my second ever run, my little rig ended out and up the bank nearly pasting some folks in the crowd at the park, its glofuel engine and prop whining away. Think that was the last time i ever ran that boat, my father and some of the folks on shore werent happy. :doh:

With what we have available today, it scares me sometimes to think about. :bounce:

[sailr]

Be advised that Heaths RC Models is illegally using our brand names "Starship" and Micro Hydro and have 'bootlegged' our produced videos. We have requested they rename the boats to the Tenshock names, Mini Cat and Mini Y respectively and cease using our videos to sell products they are not buying from us. Such business practices would make me suspect of the dealer.


Anyone using one of these? Someone linked me to one, not too keen about what electronics it comes with but 50+mph with a no brand ESC and motor is impressive for something so small.

I don't really know what is good and what isn't in the boat world when it comes to hulls so would like some advice here...

http://www.heathsrcmodels.co.uk/images/starship3.jpg

http://www.heathsrcmodels.co.uk/starship.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJjAcYjrRY&feature=player_embedded

If I was to buy one what would be a good replacement for the motor and ESC, what kind of prop am I looking at?

If its not too great, are there any other small riggers out there which are good for a beginner?

Jacob

[hide]

I was not aware of that. I'll steer clear of them then.

What kind of Cat would you recommend? I've never been a fan of monos.

[sailr]

Are you looking for a 'mini' type boat or something bigger?


I was not aware of that. I'll steer clear of them then.

What kind of Cat would you recommend? I've never been a fan of monos.

[hide]

I'd rather run a mini for now. I have lots of smaller battery packs, motors etc. so its cheaper for me to run them.

[Chop]

I have 2 MiniCat Racing boats, the Starship and the Micro Hydro. Both are very fun and great crowd pleaser's (I don't think people expect the speed that they have).

The only issues that I have had with them is the steering servo - the mount must be better glued, or reinforced with fiberglass because the servo broke loose on both of my boats.

[sailr]

Then please check our website. We have several mini boats including the Starship and Micro Hydro as well as the Velocity Series Mono and Cat and the Jollymotor Ready to Run. They all use sm all 3S lipo batteries.

www.minicatracingusa.com

Thanks!
Jim


I'd rather run a mini for now. I have lots of smaller battery packs, motors etc. so its cheaper for me to run them.

[sailr]

Agree about the servo mounting. I have complained to the factory about it but they stubbornly never improve it. It doesn't happen all the time and when it does it's a quick and simple fix with 5 minute epoxy.


I have 2 MiniCat Racing boats, the Starship and the Micro Hydro. Both are very fun and great crowd pleaser's (I don't think people expect the speed that they have).

The only issues that I have had with them is the steering servo - the mount must be better glued, or reinforced with fiberglass because the servo broke loose on both of my boats.

[hide]

Thanks Jim, like the look of all your boats. Will have to buy one in the Summer... its snowing right now here! Not an issue with the weak mounts, got access to lots of fibreglass and epoxy so if something does go wrong I can sort it :p

Which one of your boats would you recommend for a Neu 1105/4.5D? Thats if it would be applicable for one...

[questtek]

I can highly recommend the carbon fiber Starship.....I bought several of them overseas. ALthough I have a number of 1 meter long Aeromarine Cats and Canards, and several Mean Machines..... it is the carbon Starship that tops the list. The stock boat is lightening fast. I was at a FE Race meet recently and got the advice from the FE record holders. I made some mods...like adding a MUCH bigger brushless and putting in a data logging ESC. The key factor was sponson mods for the much more powerful motor......taking the advice from the pro's the boat is beyond my current capability in speed. This is one great design and VERY convenient to run. Think about it, you can carry several in one hand to the lake!

[sailr]

Assuming the Neu 1105 is a 20mm diameter motor, it will work in both the Starship and the Micro Hydro but you will have a handful! The boats will be so fast you will probably have to add a lot of weight to just keep them on the water!:rockon2:


Thanks Jim, like the look of all your boats. Will have to buy one in the Summer... its snowing right now here! Not an issue with the weak mounts, got access to lots of fibreglass and epoxy so if something does go wrong I can sort it :p

Which one of your boats would you recommend for a Neu 1105/4.5D? Thats if it would be applicable for one...

[hide]

Its a 28mm motor :( But I have a few 20mm motors around.

[questtek]

Attached are some pics of one of my Carbon Fiber starships that I put a 2848 Brushless inside. I use a 3S LiPo about 2250 mAhr capacity. The motor is rated at 3800 KV and is water cooled. I have modified a Castle 80 Amp ESC for water cooling and installed the receiver in the orange balloon. I have 5 different props that I am experimenting with for this rig.

The second pic shows the modified front sponsons. This was done for straight line speed as recommended by some of the hot FE SAW recorder holder guys. The sponsons are balsa but have a strip of thin, lightweight plastic cutting board material bonded to the bottom with extended trailing edge. I think this height is a bit too much and will experiment with cutting it down a bit. Additional weight was added to the front and it varies depending on water conditions.

There is still lots of trimming to do but the boat is fully instrumented with an Eagle Tree so I can monitor performance as I change things. This is a great toy to experiment with.

[sailr]

How did you fit the 28mm motor? The diameter with cooling jacket would be too big to fit into the existing motor mount?

[sailr]

WHY do you want to change the motor? We sell a 4200KV motor you can use that is a direct fit. Check out website! The Tenshock motors are excellent and are setting the world on fire in Europe.


Its a 28mm motor :( But I have a few 20mm motors around.

[hide]

Ah I wasn't aware that it was a Tenshock motor. Well I'm very happy with that since they are great motors.

[sundog]

How much faster does it go with the modded sponsons?

[questtek]

How much faster does it go with the modded sponsons?

Good question but I have not dialed it in enough to go full throttle and find out. I believe the sponsons are a bit too high and need to be cut down about 1/4" inch. It has a bit too much bow lift now. This mod was recommended to me so that there would be more air under the hull when using a newer, more powerful motor. Now, at 2/3 throttle it is uncontrollably fast. (These SAW record holders really know their stuff!)

The stock motor for the carbon fiber and I also believe fiberglass Tenshock Starship is their TS-N1025. This is a great little motor with a 22 mm dia and a 40 mm length weighing in at 70 grams. It can handle up to 18 A continuous and 30A for short bursts. The stock KV is around 3200 and was mentioned in a few previous postes you get a "hop-up" motor that was identical in size but runs at 4200KV. (TS-N1025*13)

I actually put in a much larger motor, in fact the weight is double at 153 grams with water cooling jacket. It is 28mm dia (33mm with jacket) and 48 mm long. It will handle 40 A continuous and over 60A in bursts. (This is why I use a water cooled Castle 80A ESC). The KV is about 3900.

It was a bit of a job getting this larger motor in as you can imagine, BUT, it can be made to fit. In fact you can even get a larger one in with a few more mods however the extra weight becomes more of a problem.

The sponsons are made from balsa and do provide additional flotation to counter-balance the additional 83 grams of weight for my larger brushless inrunner.

I can still mount my EagleTree system in the hull to monitor performance as things change...but it is a squeeze and all the planets have to be aligned to do it! Will keep the forum posted on my "tweaking" process.

[REBAR]

Attached are some pics of one of my Carbon Fiber starships that I put a 2848 Brushless inside. I use a 3S LiPo about 2250 mAhr capacity. The motor is rated at 3800 KV and is water cooled. I have modified a Castle 80 Amp ESC for water cooling and installed the receiver in the orange balloon. I have 5 different props that I am experimenting with for this rig.

The second pic shows the modified front sponsons. This was done for straight line speed as recommended by some of the hot FE SAW recorder holder guys. The sponsons are balsa but have a strip of thin, lightweight plastic cutting board material bonded to the bottom with extended trailing edge. I think this height is a bit too much and will experiment with cutting it down a bit. Additional weight was added to the front and it varies depending on water conditions.

There is still lots of trimming to do but the boat is fully instrumented with an Eagle Tree so I can monitor performance as I change things. This is a great toy to experiment with.

What is the aoa on the trailing edge?
Looks like the angle of attack on the sponsons have allot of rocker. Interesting..

[sundog]

If it's the motor I'm thinking of http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8594&Product_Name=2848SL_3900kv_Brushless_Inrunner_%28W aterCooled%29 it is a good motor. The one we chose for racing the ABC Jet Ski's. We're running 5000mah 2s lipo's and the run times are exhausting. Will be trying half that size battery to save weight. :iagree:

[questtek]

If it's the motor I'm thinking of http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8594&Product_Name=2848SL_3900kv_Brushless_Inrunner_%28W aterCooled%29 it is a good motor. The one we chose for racing the ABC Jet Ski's. We're running 5000mah 2s lipo's and the run times are exhausting. Will be trying half that size battery to save weight. :iagree:

That is exactly the motor. I have had lots of success with it but found it to be very reliable. For the price it is hard to beat. In the Starship the largest battery I can fit in is about 2250 mAhr. I still get good run times. Larger battery than that I will have to tow the bigger LiPo is a trailer behind the Starship!

[questtek]

If it's the motor I'm thinking of http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8594&Product_Name=2848SL_3900kv_Brushless_Inrunner_%28W aterCooled%29 it is a good motor. The one we chose for racing the ABC Jet Ski's. We're running 5000mah 2s lipo's and the run times are exhausting. Will be trying half that size battery to save weight. :iagree:

That is exactly the motor. I have had lots of success with it and found it to be very reliable. For the price it is hard to beat. In the Starship the largest battery I can fit in is about 2250 mAhr. I still get good run times. Larger battery than that I will have to tow the bigger LiPo is a trailer behind the Starship!

[questtek]

What is the aoa on the trailing edge?
Looks like the angle of attack on the sponsons have allot of rocker. Interesting..

I will try to send along some pics. Most interesting is the extended section of "cutting board" material on the bottom. It has a satin finish, like a light hull sanding with 400 grit. The extended tab of this material appears to act as a type of "shock absorber" for small waves. I painted these balsa sponson extensions white so I could observe their position at speed. The boat actually seems to "flutter" on the back tab of the cutting board material extension on the sponson. This is just my guess based on observation but I welcome any recommendations or suggestions.

[CaptPJB]

Lost my Starship today was romping along when it suddenly took a dive and did not come up. In hindsight should have brought it in as the motor was gliching which is what I think started the dive Anyway was using no name hatch tape............Boat is gone I suspect that "loose" bits of tape at speed caused tape to peal and that let the water in.

Anyway thought I would warn other Starship drivers it was an expensive lesson for me.

( boy it was a fast one though!!)

Peter

[sailr]

Sorry to hear about your Starship!!

Remember to ALWAYS put flotation in any boat! I always use swimming pool noodles and cut up pieces I can fit/glue into the hull and under the hatch.

[CaptPJB]

Sorry to hear about your Starship!!

Remember to ALWAYS put flotation in any boat! I always use swimming pool noodles and cut up pieces I can fit/glue into the hull and under the hatch.

Yes I use the same thing pool noodle on my other boats but as you are aware there is not much spare room in a Starship to put anything in.

In hindsight probably could have jammed some on top of the battery once it was in and connected that is about the only place. Not much room there but it might have been enough to save it. Problem really i think was the hatch tape being el cheapo and I should have quit when I noticed the motor cutting in and out.

As they say hindsight is 20/20 just wanted to post to warn other Starship users as it was an expensive mistake on my part.

Peter

[sailr]

On the starship I cut very thin slivers of the foam and put them into the sponsons. There is a lot of room on the right rear side of the hull for a sizeable chunk there. I also slice a fairly thin piece and glue up under the hatch. More room there than you think....behind where the battery goes.

[sailr]

That rigger is made by Tenshock. We are the dealer for it here in the U.S. There are dealers in Germany and apparently also in the UK. The Tenshock motors are some of the best in the world, winning a lot of naviga races. They are not popular in the USA because they are rather expensive and unknown here. The esc's are also made by Tenshock. The servo is a well known brand, GWS.


Anyone using one of these? Someone linked me to one, not too keen about what electronics it comes with but 50+mph with a no brand ESC and motor is impressive for something so small.

I don't really know what is good and what isn't in the boat world when it comes to hulls so would like some advice here...

http://www.heathsrcmodels.co.uk/images/starship3.jpg

http://www.heathsrcmodels.co.uk/starship.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJjAcYjrRY&feature=player_embedded

If I was to buy one what would be a good replacement for the motor and ESC, what kind of prop am I looking at?

If its not too great, are there any other small riggers out there which are good for a beginner?

Jacob

[CaptPJB]

On the starship I cut very thin slivers of the foam and put them into the sponsons. There is a lot of room on the right rear side of the hull for a sizeable chunk there. I also slice a fairly thin piece and glue up under the hatch. More room there than you think....behind where the battery goes.

I am assuming that if one does all this it will float flooded? I had not thought about slivers of foam in the sponsons. Instead of a Starship was thinking of a mini eco, cheaper, looks to be fast and it stays afloat even if it flips, self righting too.

Sailr would you care to comment on the pros and cons of both designs and potential speed. I would hate to loose another boat due to lack of flotation and poor hatch sealing.

Must say I did like my Starship though, very fast and stable.

PM me if you would rather discuss offline

Peter

[sailr]

It doesn't take much foam to float the Starship. The boat is very lightweight.

The Mini-ECO is a totally different experience. It runs flat and makes 90 degree turns. It's a blast. It is not as fast as the Starship obviously because it is not a rigger. It is a subsurface drive also. The Mini-ECO is in the 35-40mph range.

For speed, the Starship, for manueverability, etc, the Mini-ECO. Personally, a pond full of Mini-ECO's would be an incredible blast!

You do have to 'tweek' the ECO to get it to self-right. It's all about enough weight on the left side. In the instructions we show you how others have opened up the deck and put some lead weights in there. If you run a bit heavier battery, like a 3000mah, that's probably enough weight on its own. The ECO has the flood chamber. When they are manufactured, they have the minimum amount of venting, allowing the user to customize the self-righting feature.

It's really your preference.

[drwayne]

I placed a fine layer of cf covering over the boom arm entry holes from within the hull... now have two water tight air chambers for flotation.

[BakedMopar]

The rigger that my buddy bought from the swap shop here had the sponsons blocked off with glass. I has saved it a few times when the hatch becomes undone. It also helps to lightly sand the taped areas with 2000 grit just to knock the shine off. The tape stick much better.

[SweetAccord]

The rigger that my buddy bought from the swap shop here had the sponsons blocked off with glass. I has saved it a few times when the hatch becomes undone. It also helps to lightly sand the taped areas with 2000 grit just to knock the shine off. The tape stick much better.

Correct, if you close off the small area in the sponsoon with silicone or such you trap air in there that is just enough to float this little rigger. On another note, the Starship is a wonderful rigger. I love mine and can't say enough about it. It runs flat and fast and didn't take much effor or knowledge to get it up and running. I'm spending more time trying to needle balance the small prop than anything else on these small boats.

[ray schrauwen]

One of these days I'll snag a Carbon Starship, they look so nice.

How much is a Carbon Starship without power system, just ARTR, with servo & hardware installed? I have tons of motors & esc's in this range.

[SweetAccord]

One of these days I'll snag a Carbon Starship, they look so nice.

How much is a Carbon Starship without power system, just ARTR, with servo & hardware installed? I have tons of motors & esc's in this range.


Currently here are the prices: http://www.minicatracingusa.com/srigger.html

Carbon Fiber for $419.00

I have the non carbon one as love it to death. I have quite a few 2040- motors and so far love the way it runs with a 3800kv and 34mm 32D prop. with 1800 battery.

[questtek]

Love those CF starships. I added a turn fin to mine and it greatly improved handling. Pics show how it was done. Also have flotation in front and sponsons. When putting a bigger, heaver motor, like the one shown, I added some ride pads formed from balsa and sealed/painted white. Does two things, gives a bit of needed flotation for the heaver motor and permits a nicer air flow under the hull at speeds. Mark Grimm recommended this trick to me and it has worked out well.

[CaptPJB]

Cool way of adding the turn fin did you fabricate the holding bracket or purchased it as a set with the fin?

[questtek]

Cool way of adding the turn fin did you fabricate the holding bracket or purchased it as a set with the fin?

Built it all myself. Fin is cut from alum and shaped. Rest of hardware I just had laying around. No holes to drill, just bolt it on the support shaft. Could not be easier. Cost, about 25 cents.............

[Rumdog]

Thats the first time I've seen a turn fin on the transom of a rigger.

[questtek]

Thats the first time I've seen a turn fin on the transom of a rigger.

Agreed!.. BUT, the CG of the CF starship is 5 to 6 inches behind the back of the front sponson. Most Hydros have the fin here but it may be too far in front of the CG. A trick I learned from Mark F is to put the turn fin at or behind the CG. This is why when you look at his Insane Hydro the turn fin is actually way behind the sponson on a long, heavy duty extension bar.

Anyway, seems to work for me............I will get Tony to take a video of it running the next time he comes down.

[ray schrauwen]

Great stuff! Thanks for the replies & PM's !!!

[sailr]

Interesting upgrades and information regarding the turn fin placement!

[SweetAccord]

I know this is an old thread, but for people that still may read it, if you have a Starship, you can make the front sponsons act like floatation devices by sealing up the small seam from the inside of the boat with epoxy or other to save weight and give you space inside the already small hull.

Here's mine: http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/album.php?albumid=243&attachmentid=86544

Hope that helps.

[Insaniac]

I know this is an old thread, but for people that still may read it, if you have a Starship, you can make the front sponsons act like floatation devices by sealing up the small seam from the inside of the boat with epoxy or other to save weight and give you space inside the already small hull.

Here's mine: http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/album.php?albumid=243&attachmentid=86544

Hope that helps.

Did that with my first one (sold it) and now my second one a week ago...works great...nice clean solution that leaves extra room.
:cool2:

[SweetAccord]

:laugh:

[NativePaul]

I dislike using trapped air for flotation, because if you crash hard and the hull is compromised you loose all your floatation just when you need it, and if your hull is not compromised you don't need the flotation.

Have any of you added carbon booms to your Tenshock riggers, I saw a number of both the Mini and the Hydro1 version at the last worlds and the majority of them had at least one secondary boom added to control the sponson's angle of attack better.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rvnSmG-d_YY/UhyQxJs8WoI/AAAAAAAADg8/0doo8gxKlq8/s720/319.JPG

[SweetAccord]

You have a point about floatation, but for me the lake I run at has nothing to crash into and I've been running there for years. The water is calm and I've yet been able to flip it, but my case may not be fitting for others so floatation is a must if you have obstacles in the lake you can hit.

As for the carbon booms, I don't see the need to add anything to the stock design as I don't race professionally and stock it's great. They must run at very high speeds to need to mod it to that point! But that's neat though. :) I wish someone would make these hulls dirt cheap less electronics for 100.00 like 3D printing or something out of wood or plastic, the design is so awesome for such a small boat, I love it.

Thank you for sharing, I alway like to see what others are doing. What kind of KV and props are they running do you know? Any videos of their runs?

[SweetAccord]

On side note, this is the funnies thing I've seen yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKBLp3UsXPo


This one is my favorite videos showing what this hull can really do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG571aBymKs


All my favorite videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_c6_mwzB9E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZJjAcYjrRY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoPuUuX2hk8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k36dQ7KoTzw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr-8FcELANY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbaVC3vukBs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCqXReHnBbg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2U-DiiqyJw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj_31b-l6-c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ7pBEoJ-44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTHSG_2qhic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k-jNZVEQYM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXU0uavNgLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC7Wk2A9MJc

Enjoy!

[ray schrauwen]

I like the extra booms on your yellow starship Paul. I have a cheap HK copy that has some flex to it and you just helped me solve how to decrease it. Thanks for the pics!
I have a 28mm Heli-max 2580kv 6 pole motor for it I got new for $10 on fleabay. Another project not started yet.
Looks like my hull could use ride pads with sharp trailing edges for the sponsons.

I'd prefer a cf one but, this is a low budget build.

[SweetAccord]

I don't think the yellow Tenshock is his. :laugh:

[NativePaul]

It is for efficiency more than speed, I suspect we are running no faster than many sport boaters, and certainly slower than American racers, but when you are trying to go fast on limited power the last thing you want is for the sponsons angle of attack to be changing as when it lowers it will have more wetted area and not only slow you down but you will consume more power accelerating back up to speed.

They are not mine, the examples in the photos belonged to the Bulgarian team.

The Minis are typically powered by Tenshock 1025/17 or Ts Viper 1515/16 for 3s and Tenschock 1025/13 for 2s, the Hydro1 Ts Viper 1530/8 or Leopard 2860/3400 for 3s or TS Viper 1530/5 or Leopard 2860 5050kv on 2s.

The one in the second video in SweetAccord's second post is the Hydro1 version not the Mini Hydro.

[SweetAccord]

I think I've seen someone do 4s on a Tenshock, crazy.