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hyrulejedi86
10-21-2009, 09:41 AM
So, my parts for the conversion of my Rio EP have finally started arriving. I have decided to document my progress here and see how things go.

A little background information:
I already have a brushless Mini Rio that I got a kit for and it works great and is fast but because it is so small, it gets unstable at higher speeds. So, of course I wanted something bigger and better. After some research I found the Rio EP with certain features I really liked; i.e. dual rudders with breakaway, stabilizers, a waterproof box and it is light.

My friend who also really liked my Mini Rio wanted a boat of his own but wasn't wanting to spend quite as much as I am for one so we found an Arrow Wind on eBay that others had converted to a brushless boat. This thread will document both boats progress in the conversion.

So, now onto the stats!!

Here is the Arrow Wind on eBay and a you tube video of a brushless version:
Arrow Wind (http://cgi.ebay.com/RC-RADIO-REMOTE-CONTROLLED-BOAT-INDY-CAR-OF-THE-LAKE_W0QQitemZ250481714567QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio _Control_Vehicles?hash=item3a51dfa587)

Brushless Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qev_AqBhn1M)


Now, Here are the motor and ESC that I ordered for both boats:

Motor (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5145)

ESC (http://www.hobbypartz.com/volcano-series-60a-brushless-esc.html)

Battery (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9265)

So, far the ESC is here but the motor and batteries are going to be here today! :rofl:

Next Update: PICTURES!! :thumbup:

soulreaper
10-21-2009, 02:26 PM
Thanks for the updates. Keep them coming.

Reaper.

SweetZ28
10-21-2009, 03:44 PM
Cool that's the motor i should have got for my 24" cat I got a 3300KV and it's to slow the motor you show 3600KV if you read peoples comments they all say it works great on 2S and that's what i was after!
Keep us posted!

SweetZ28
10-22-2009, 09:49 AM
Found this looks like the same motor but comes with a boat ESC and it's cheap.
It's a little cheaper on there site also.
http://www.bydico.com/images/C65Ua.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.com/Marine-3600Kv-Brushless-Motor-60A-ESC-C66U_W0QQitemZ370277251772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadio _Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item56363e7abc

hyrulejedi86
10-22-2009, 11:27 AM
Here are two pictures of each boat stripped down.

I couldn't get that battery holder off the boat so I cut it in half to get the all the cords out without damaging them. It isn't the nicest looking thing but I'm going to put it back together with a little tape, no big deal.

I managed to get all the components out of the container and am waterproofing my ESC at the moment. I can't put the ESC totally together yet because I'm waiting for a heat sink watercooling plate to come in the mail first. But it shouldn't be too much longer before I'm up and running!

soulreaper
10-22-2009, 11:40 AM
Hyrule how are you going to use that airplane esc with your boat? Do you use a stix radio or an airplane radio. And last but not least how are you going to waterproof your esc?

SweetZ28
10-22-2009, 11:44 AM
Here are two pictures of each boat stripped down.

I couldn't get that battery holder off the boat so I cut it in half to get the all the cords out without damaging them. It isn't the nicest looking thing but I'm going to put it back together with a little tape, no big deal.

I managed to get all the components out of the container and am waterproofing my ESC at the moment. I can't put the ESC totally together yet because I'm waiting for a heat sink watercooling plate to come in the mail first. But it shouldn't be too much longer before I'm up and running!

Looks good ? for you on your 3600KV motors when you turn the motor shaft by hand does it turn easy and smooth or does it have a strong pop effect from the magnet?
THANKS

hyrulejedi86
10-22-2009, 12:05 PM
It's nice and smooth.

Does anyone have a turnigy accucel-6?
I am plugging in one of my lipos and setting the amperage and the number of cells right but it keeps saying "connection break" but I am only plugging in the charging plug and it's in all the way. I've tried this on 4 different LiPo batteries all 3s but it keeps saying the same thing. I have gotten the balence charge to work on 2 of them but that's it. Any suggestions>

soulreaper
10-22-2009, 12:23 PM
Hyrule I'll answer your question even though you did not answer the question I asked you early. I have the same charger. You have to plug the balance plug into the charger and the charge leads to the battery.

Reaper

SweetZ28
10-22-2009, 12:33 PM
It's nice and smooth.

Does anyone have a turnigy accucel-6?
I am plugging in one of my lipos and setting the amperage and the number of cells right but it keeps saying "connection break" but I am only plugging in the charging plug and it's in all the way. I've tried this on 4 different LiPo batteries all 3s but it keeps saying the same thing. I have gotten the balence charge to work on 2 of them but that's it. Any suggestions>

Hi you need to use the balance taps...also on the motor you are telling me you can spin the motors shaft and it turns easy without any force? a good motor should feel like a magnet pole making the shaft hard to turn feeling like how a brushed motor does?...does it feel like a brushed motor when turning the shaft by hand? I was thinking of getting one but if the motor rotor shaft spins very easy and feels like it has no pop from magnets i don't think it will be a good motor probably no tork?

hyrulejedi86
10-22-2009, 01:04 PM
Sorry soulreaper I didn't see that post. I am using a clear drying caulk on the small openings on the end of the ESC, it is waterproof and is good to use in higher temperatures. Also, I don't have any special radio for that ESC, I was under the impression that it would work with any receiver, since the manufactueres description on the manual says "it is fully compatible with all transmitters currently on the market"

SweetZ28 I checked the motor again, and it does catch when you spin it I can feel the bumps when the magnets line up. I guess I didn't really spin it enough the frist time, I thought I did when I got it but I guess not. So, basically, I can feel the pop from the magnets, it's not hard to spin but I can feel it.

Also, I did figure out the turnigy thing already, I connected the leads and it works fine now. Thanks for that input.

P.S. I'm sure you can tell from my posts but this is my first real brushless conversion of anything, so that's why I'm sort of shall we say "discovering" these things as I go along, despite lots of research.

soulreaper
10-22-2009, 03:41 PM
Hyrule thanks for the response. I hope your charger works for you now. Thanks for the info on waterproofing. Please check to make sure that esc you have will work with a Pistol grip radio if that is what you intend on using.

Reaper.

hyrulejedi86
10-22-2009, 04:12 PM
So, far things are okay, I have 2 problems at the moment. First is indeed the ESC and receiver, the motor runs when the receiver is in the neutral position and stops when I pull the trigger back. Weird! But like I said the manufacturer says it is compatible with ALL transmitters on the market so there is no reason to suggest it won'y work. I sent them an email asking about this problem and am awaiting a response.

My second problem maybe one of you can help me out with. I got 5 packs to charge successfully with the accucel-6 but 2 are still getting that same error. I don't know what to do, one battery is new and came in the mail yesterday the other one I have used once or twice and now it also gives me that error.

I have both the plugs plugged into the charger like what was suggested earlier and that message still appears. I did replace the stock plug with a deans connector but if it worked earlier then I can't see why it wouldn't work now.
The two packs that don't work are Turnigy 1300mAh and Turnigy 3000mAh 3s LiPos.

SweetZ28
10-22-2009, 04:22 PM
Hi on your Radio make sure throttle trim is in the center and also try reversing the throttle with the throttle reversing switch ...If this don't work try putting your throttle trimm to full one way and tring it again and if that don't work try putting the throttle trim all the way the oposit way and try again...for some reason i have to do this on one of my boats.

Also about the battery maybe try cleaning the power balance tapes contacts.

hyrulejedi86
10-22-2009, 04:26 PM
Hmmm, Those are good ideas! I'll give them a try and see how it goes, Thanks!!

soulreaper
10-22-2009, 11:45 PM
Hyrule you might have to order "Mikes Pistix" for your esc. It allows an airplane esc to work with a pistol grip radio. If your charger wont charge two of your batteries it has to be because there is a bad connection at one of your connectors on the battery side. Or the batteries might be bad even though one is new. The charger you have works very well, I have never had a problem with mine.

Reaper

hyrulejedi86
10-23-2009, 08:04 AM
thank you for the suggestions. I looked at Mikes Pistix but its out of stock right now and Im not sure how to install it. Would you just plug the three prong end on the pistix into the female plug of the esc and the other end of the pistix into the reciever? Thats how it looks like it would work anyway. Im waiting on tech support where I got it to reply and see what they say before I order anything.

As for my battery and charger I figured the battery was the problem, Im going to resolder the deans connectors and see if that helps. The new battery that I got has a very large wire for the discharge leads and are hard to solder to the deans connectors. Do you have any suggestions for soldering these big wires securely to the deans?

Thanks

hyrulejedi86
10-23-2009, 08:05 AM
PS im waiting on 2 more things in the mail before I can complete the project. The ESC cooling plate and the motor coupler.

Soon hopefully!

soulreaper
10-23-2009, 09:07 AM
Hyrule where did you try and find the Pistix? Was it with OSE because they are in fact out of stock but there is another place that has them in stock. I know because I ordered mine from there. I'm not sure if its okay for me to post that place but here it is. OSE please dont band me from the forum I'm just trying to help a forum brother. Mikes subworks has them in stock and he shipped right away. You will have to place your order over the phone. Hope this helps you.

Reaper.

hyrulejedi86
10-23-2009, 10:49 AM
Thanks I will definatly use them if I determine that i need it.

hyrulejedi86
11-04-2009, 07:21 PM
Okay, so things have been busy around here with exams and such at school and not to metion all the parts have been arriving slowly. I'm still waiting for the motor coupler for the arrow wind. I modified the coupler that came with the Rio Ep to fit my new motor shaft and it works well.

My ESCs are working totally fine now, and are working as planned. I took it out today to get a test run for the first time but didn't have time to take a video because I flipped it while getting the feel of this boat and it was getting dark. Unfortunatly, I hadn't full sealed the box for the servo and receiver yet so water got in when it filpped and shorted the receiver out. No big deal though because I have an extra just in case.

I did find I have a problem, the motor has too much torque and it moves in it's cradle in the boat so I need a motor holder that will screw into the front of the motor itself.

My second problem was the boat started turning right at near full speed but I didn't have time to try and adjust the rudder and see if it helps. Next time I will do that but after the flip was recovered it was dark and there wasn't time to continue.

Thirdly, I need a new motor coupler, the one's I ordered haven't gotten here and it's been 2 weeks I'm in the process of talking to the people I ordered it from but I have since decided I want a different kind of coupler than the one I ordered. The one I ordered was just like the one that came with the Rio EP to start with but I am thinking I would rather have one that is the design of this one:
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-ocfhe4mm13

But I need a 4mm shaft hole and a 2mm flex shaft hole ( the one that screws in).

Can anyone suggest a coupler for the motor and for a motor mount?

Here also, is a picture but without the battery or receiver put in.

hyrulejedi86
11-08-2009, 07:48 PM
So,everything is here, installed and I am ready to run!!! Hopefully I will be able to take a run out to the Lake sometime this week, perhaps monday or wednesday, and video the Rio EP. I'm excited to try it because both the boats are finished. I will post videos and pictures later once I make a run with them.

I did solve my problem with the motor torque and spinning itself around in it's cradle. I cut a piece of the rubber lid openers we have up to fit around the motor and screwed the brace back in place. It fit perfectly and the motor definetly isn't going anywhere!

Till Next time!

Rumdog
11-09-2009, 06:44 PM
Video please!!

hyrulejedi86
11-09-2009, 11:17 PM
OKAY!!!! So, I've got a video here of the Rio EP running at the Lake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vebxMsSYdx8

Check it out and see what you think. I have noticed a couple things and am hoping for some suggestions on these issues:

1) I am noticing that it isn't getting on plane as quickly as I would like. I am using a 34mm prop. I was thinking about trying a smaller one but I don't know if that will get on plane sooner or go faster or what. It is a 31mm prop I'm thinking about. I also, thought about trying the stock prop just to see what happens.

2) If I move the battery from the back where it was designed to go to behind the motor do you think that will help even out the weight and help it get on plane faster?

3) I was having some serious problems with it rotaing to the right in the water at higher speeds but the metal fins solved that problem.

4) If you don't like the props I suggested above can someone supply me with a link of one or two that should work well?\

Hope the video looks good!

Rumdog
11-10-2009, 06:54 PM
Definately moved the battery back. It'll jump on plane waaaay faster. Try that first, then diff. props. Do not run the stock prop. It'll be way too big.

hyrulejedi86
11-10-2009, 08:43 PM
Ok, so I took it out again today and did a little experimenting with props.

First I tried a smaller prop I had, 31mm, and it was worse than the 34. So, I tried the only other prop I had, the stock prop. It worked AMAZINGLY, it picked up on plane, immediatly, got a great top speed and was overall very good.

Now, I just have to find a better prop of the same type because the stock is made of a cheap plastic.

Here is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR8PRtPw-Bc

Sorry about the shakyness. I'm going to go again tomorrow as long as it doesn't rain and I'll take a video with my cheap HD camera and hopefully from a little father away.
Till then, feel free to make suggestions, and incase anyone is wondering, the motor and ESC didnt get overly warm using that prop.

Brushless55
11-10-2009, 11:27 PM
Looks good...
I would try a 40mm and see how that goes..
how were your temps with the stock 42mm prop?

SweetZ28
11-10-2009, 11:33 PM
I have a 31.5mm prop on my brushless apache and it's pretty fast on 3s but my battery runs a little hot I am going to try a little smaller prop ....with your 3600kv with those props you are using don't your battery get hot?

Mine would probly not get as hot but i ran all the way down to lipo cut off.
see my video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sibSxqJVlUc
Z28

hyrulejedi86
11-11-2009, 01:42 PM
My temps were fine, battery wasn't hot at all but the motor and ESC got warm not so hot I couldn't touch them and hold my fingers there. I wouldn't mind going down a size but I tried the 31 and 34mm props from Hobbycity and they just won't push it on plane or get much speed. Can you guys give me a link to a couple of smaller props with higher pitches. maybe even a 3 blade prop that would work. I don't want to burn anything out but I want speed!!

I wouldn't mind a smaller prop but the one's I have just dont cut it right now.

hyrulejedi86
11-11-2009, 01:42 PM
Oh, P.S. W/o the water cooling then they would get quite hot but since I have water cooling hooked up it keeps them much cooler.

Brushless55
11-11-2009, 01:54 PM
My temps were fine, battery wasn't hot at all but the motor and ESC got warm not so hot I couldn't touch them and hold my fingers there. I wouldn't mind going down a size but I tried the 31 and 34mm props from Hobbycity and they just won't push it on plane or get much speed. Can you guys give me a link to a couple of smaller props with higher pitches. maybe even a 3 blade prop that would work. I don't want to burn anything out but I want speed!!

I wouldn't mind a smaller prop but the one's I have just dont cut it right now.


Going smaller on the prop would get you less speed and harder out of the hole

hyrulejedi86
11-11-2009, 02:39 PM
Well, I definetly don't want less speed! Alot of people were just saying that the 42 was probably to big and I don't want to mess anything up if it were to big.

Brushless55
11-11-2009, 05:21 PM
A 38-40mm would be good, possibly even a 36mm may get the job done..

hyrulejedi86
11-11-2009, 06:28 PM
Can you suggest one with a pitch similar to the Rio Ep stock, or how do I find out what the pitch is so I can get the right one the first time, hopefully! :)

hyrulejedi86
11-11-2009, 06:32 PM
I was just thinking, if I wanted to switch to a 3 blade prop how would I adjust the size if I found that a 38mm 2 blade prop worked?

SweetZ28
11-11-2009, 06:36 PM
Hi a smaller prop may get you faster speed i learned this ...if your motor is high RPM ...like yours 39,600RPM on your 3s battery that's very high mine is 30,500RPM on 3S and i used a 31.5mm and it flew I am going to try a 29mm.
With your set up if it is doing the RPM it supposed to be and is a good motor I say go smaller prop. what size is the hole in your props? i use 3/16" props carbon fiber ones i grind down the 40MM size to what i like.
Did you see my video?

hyrulejedi86
11-11-2009, 06:50 PM
I did see your video it looks really fast!

I tried a 31mm from hobbycity but it wouldn't get on plane or get going at a good speed at all!

That's why I tried the stock prop which did amazing. I think maybe if I had a smaller prop with a higher pitch it might work better but I don't know where to start. The flex shaft is 3mm in size so that's what the hole in the prop has to be as well.

SweetZ28
11-11-2009, 07:02 PM
I did see your video it looks really fast!

I tried a 31mm from hobbycity but it wouldn't get on plane or get going at a good speed at all!

That's why I tried the stock prop which did amazing. I think maybe if I had a smaller prop with a higher pitch it might work better but I don't know where to start. The flex shaft is 3mm in size so that's what the hole in the prop has to be as well.

Those props probably are no good ...if there plastic it probably flexed like crazy at that RPM and made it not grab the water and push...I used a plastic 30 something MM prop and it just sat there cavatating!
The carbon fiber stuff don't flex...

SweetZ28
11-11-2009, 07:06 PM
Hi go here on the top try these props they should fit your boat.....i would get a 35 and 32mm and maybe the next size smaller ... a note on these get a razor blade and hold it on a angle and scrape around the whole back of each blad to make the 2 blades sharp ...I got 2MPH more by doing this on a fiberglass prop.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=119

SweetZ28
11-11-2009, 07:16 PM
Here is how you sharpen by scraping with razor or exacto blade.

Brushless55
11-11-2009, 07:44 PM
Hi a smaller prop may get you faster speed i learned this ...if your motor is high RPM ...like yours 39,600RPM on your 3s battery that's very high mine is 30,500RPM on 3S and i used a 31.5mm and it flew I am going to try a 29mm.
With your set up if it is doing the RPM it supposed to be and is a good motor I say go smaller prop. what size is the hole in your props? i use 3/16" props carbon fiber ones i grind down the 40MM size to what i like.
Did you see my video?


Going smaller and smaller does not mean faster and faster speeds
you will get to a point that the prop does much of nothing for your boat going with a smaller prop

Brushless55
11-11-2009, 07:47 PM
Can you suggest one with a pitch similar to the Rio Ep stock, or how do I find out what the pitch is so I can get the right one the first time, hopefully! :)


you have a lot or rpm so you don't really need alot of pitch..
it's all about trial and error in picking the right prop :popcorn2:

so far your doing real good! :thumbup1:

SweetZ28
11-11-2009, 08:27 PM
Going smaller and smaller does not mean faster and faster speeds
you will get to a point that the prop does much of nothing for your boat going with a smaller prop

Yes but there is only one way of finding this out and its testing I tested bigger props and smaller then smaller and smaller ones but not the smallest made my boat faster than with a bigger prop because my boats motor never got up to full RPM with a big prop.
He just has to test a few props ...I think the small plastic ones did no good as they flexed badly due to his hight RPMs and if he runs the same size in fiber glass, metal,or Carbon fiber it will work much different than those cheapo Hobbyking plastic props... That's my thoughts.

Brushless55
11-11-2009, 10:31 PM
Yes but there is only one way of finding this out and its testing I tested bigger props and smaller then smaller and smaller ones but not the smallest made my boat faster than with a bigger prop because my boats motor never got up to full RPM with a big prop.
He just has to test a few props ...I think the small plastic ones did no good as they flexed badly due to his hight RPMs and if he runs the same size in fiber glass, metal,or Carbon fiber it will work much different than those cheapo Hobbyking plastic props... That's my thoughts.

this is a mono hull and the tiny props do not do that well
and with any prop change one needs to make an adjustment to the strut to get the most out of the prop

mr.gunner
11-12-2009, 02:42 AM
Hello,

I'm new here and I'll be receiving my boat within a few days.

I've got a plan to modify my boat and looking into the same motor as you. My question is that do you need to change the motor coupler to the one you mentioned? or, the stock coupler can fit the new motor properly.

I'm from Thailand and sorry for my bad English. :help:

6S HYDRO
11-12-2009, 10:43 AM
your not suppose to sharpen carbon props

SweetZ28
11-12-2009, 11:12 AM
your not suppose to sharpen carbon props

Hi i was talking about sharpening the fiber glass composit props...I got 2MPH more from doing this...these props are not sharp like the carbon fiber props.

6S HYDRO
11-12-2009, 11:17 AM
im not sure how any composite is gonna hold up after being cut like that then running in water, it will come apart after time

SweetZ28
11-12-2009, 11:46 AM
im not sure how any composite is gonna hold up after being cut like that then running in water, it will come apart after time

:thumbup1: for a extra 2MPH gain on a few $ prop it's worth it.

Brushless55
11-12-2009, 01:41 PM
im not sure how any composite is gonna hold up after being cut like that then running in water, it will come apart after time

ya, I think thats right..
it will weaken the prop edge and become very brittle
and getting 2mph extra could just be the difference in the water conditions :thumbup1:

6S HYDRO
11-12-2009, 02:00 PM
hey 55, Medusa 3680 DF 33"

how is this setup? mph-prop

Steven Vaccaro
11-12-2009, 02:21 PM
I was the one that suggested to him that he should sharpen the prop with a razor. One thing I never considered was it falling apart. I've been playing with those props for about 5 years, so far I haven't had one come apart, but thats not saying it can't happen.

SweetZ28
11-12-2009, 04:49 PM
Yes i never had one come apart also and if your so worried seal the edge of the prop with clear coat paint... they won't fray apart anyhow. and the 2MPH gain was tested on the boat set up the same on the same day just put a stock non sharpened fiber glass prop on and then put the same one but sharpened and the GPS said 2MPH faster!

Brushless55
11-12-2009, 08:26 PM
hey 55, Medusa 3680 DF 33"

how is this setup? mph-prop

have yet to start the build, I've just got a Titan 29 last week and need to mount the motor and get it cleaned up first then I'll sart the 33 :thumbup1:

hyrulejedi86
11-13-2009, 08:21 AM
Wow this is good stuff, I've really busy the last couple days and hadent had time to check my post.

mrgunner- The stock coupler does not fit that motor, that motor is 4 mm shaft and the coupler is a 3 mm to 2 mm coupler. If you are really careful you can take a drill and widen the 3 mm hole to a 4 pretty easily as long as you drill in straight. Thats what I did and it works well.

everyone else-I am still trying to decide where to get my props from for the cheapest and what pitch to settle on. But thanks for all the replies so far!

Brushless55
11-13-2009, 12:03 PM
Wow this is good stuff, I've really busy the last couple days and hadent had time to check my post.

mrgunner- The stock coupler does not fit that motor, that motor is 4 mm shaft and the coupler is a 3 mm to 2 mm coupler. If you are really careful you can take a drill and widen the 3 mm hole to a 4 pretty easily as long as you drill in straight. Thats what I did and it works well.

everyone else-I am still trying to decide where to get my props from for the cheapest and what pitch to settle on. But thanks for all the replies so far!

What size do you think you will go with?

hyrulejedi86
11-13-2009, 12:48 PM
Based on the results of my 31 34 a d 42mm props I will probably try 36, 38 & 40mm props and see what happens.

Just out of curiosity how do you determine the pitch of a prop if you dont know?

Brushless55
11-13-2009, 12:50 PM
:confused1:
I do not know

hyrulejedi86
11-13-2009, 12:58 PM
Thats ok. Someone might know. I just wanted a reference point when im looking for a prop that correlates to the stock prop because it was working so well.

Brushless55
11-13-2009, 01:00 PM
I think the stock prop is 1.4

Rumdog
11-13-2009, 01:00 PM
measure its length from the leading edge to the tip. That distance will be the pitch. I'd try a yv mm prop. Maybe x637.

SweetZ28
11-13-2009, 01:13 PM
Why not try one of the props Steve sells here the fiberglass composit ones they come in 4mm and have sizes that would be good for your testing needs....just sharpen there edges like i shown so they cut through the water good and they work very good.

hyrulejedi86
11-13-2009, 01:20 PM
Thats good to know. Ill find something soon, hopefully!

hyrulejedi86
11-15-2009, 09:33 PM
I"VE GOT A VIDEO!

This is a video shot last week on a really windy day so the water was really quite rough. I never got to full speed but I definetly got going and the Rio Ep handled the waves quite well

Rio Ep
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGINnSg9i-Q

I also have this video of the Arrow Wind in the same rough water, it's awesome it was jumping and flying really well, it was very fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htkDMHLo4d0

Check 'em out!

hyrulejedi86
11-18-2009, 06:05 PM
What do you guys think of these?

soulreaper
11-19-2009, 11:18 AM
I thought they were awesome. My new 4cell lipo arrived two days ago and I will be heading out to the lake today for a test run. The problem with my brushless setup was balance. That is the reason I order a heavier battery in an attempt to get the cg toward the back. I dont have the boating skills or knowledge to relocate the motor and components to different locations. Im glad you got yours running good. Hopefully I can join in your success with my own brushless Rio.

Reaper

hyrulejedi86
11-19-2009, 12:41 PM
Have you been adjsting the trim fins for the balance? I had to adjust those a bit to get better balence. I even tried to move the battery to the opposite side that the boat was leaning when running. In the end I just put the battery back and found the perfect position of the trim fins with my motor.

I actually ordered a new ESC because the one I had was cutting in and out (I returned it to the manufacturer) so, I ordered a seaking that has reverse also. Can't wait till it gets here.

Rumdog
11-19-2009, 01:35 PM
Seaking's are great! I would only use reverse when absolutely necessary though. You will be spinning the flex cable in reverse, and too much load will cause it to unwind. Whick seaking is it?

hyrulejedi86
11-19-2009, 01:50 PM
It's the 60A with a 120A burst. Which is good since the motor is only a 40A motor.

pavmentsurfer
03-26-2010, 05:12 PM
Hey man, ive been reading your thread with interest. I JUST got my Rio EP today and immediately put in a Novak 2S lipo cut off and went out to run the boat. In like 10 minutes the ESC died... servo gears also stripped.
Anyway, I went stright to e-bay and bought an ESC with the following specs:Output:
Continuous 50A, Burst 60A up to 12 Secs. (no backward)
Input Voltage: 50A: 2-7 cells lithium battery or 5-16 cells NiCd/NIMh battery.
Weight: 33g.
3A BEC

and a 3600 KV water cooled brushless motor. They came as a set for $40CDN shipped. SUPER cheap I know. Do you think this will work on 2S in the Rio EP? I have 3S but I dont really want to use it. I dont want insane speeds... your boat is too fast for me. I just want it to be faster than the stock setup, and reliable.
What do you think?

hyrulejedi86
03-26-2010, 05:38 PM
I'm guessing too much strain on the ESC, I've heard of others who lost their stock ESC from too much power. But it seems as though it doesn't matter since you've gotten a new one and a new motor.

The ESC will probably be fine but do you know what the max amp draw the motor is rated at?
Hopefully not more than 50A. If they were sold together then they were probably matched well.

One thing I will say is that the ESC definetly makes a difference on reliability. I've gone through 2 different ESCs before I got my seaking because the other two quit working correctly.
Just keep an eye on yours and as long as it stays cool enough that you can hold your fingers on it for 5-10 seconds your fine.

I would think you would easily get more speed than stock with that setup though. When you have it assembled you should youtube it and post a video of the internal setup and of it running.

hyrulejedi86
03-26-2010, 05:42 PM
I think I found the combo you bought on eBay, funny thing is I think that's the same motor I have! lol. Well it works pretty well if it is!
But like I was saying I would just keep an eye on the ESC and make sure it keeps up well.

There is one thing I will warn you of then if it is the same. The piece of metal that lies on top of the motor to keep it in place is a little loose on the motor. It will spin and yank the watercooling out of the side of the boat, then flood the hull. If you want to avoid this, what I did was cut up one of those rubber jar openers that you get everywhere to the width of the metal covering. I then wrapped it around the motor once and tightened the screws on the metal cover nice and tight. This has completly prevented the motor from moving at all!

pavmentsurfer
03-26-2010, 07:23 PM
Excellent. I thought the motor I got looked just like yours also. I read about your fix for the motor fitment and was going to do that from the start. I noticed on one of your earlier pics you had a water cooling kit added to the first ESC you had that WASENT water cooled. It was held on with an elastic. Where did you get that? I can get a 60 amp ESC from e-bay for like $20 and it is watercooled. I might jsut get that anyway... order it now and then ill jsut have it when I need it.

hyrulejedi86
03-26-2010, 08:26 PM
Yeah, that was just a rubberband holding this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/10A-40A-RC-Boat-ESC-Water-Cooling-System_W0QQitemZ230423202482QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_ Toys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles?hash=item35 a64b0ab2

to the ESC. It works fairly well but the ESCs that have the watercooling integrated into them are better. That sounds like a plan to me.

pavmentsurfer
03-26-2010, 09:16 PM
Hmmm, yeah, I think ill just run the 50amp ESC for now, if it dies I can get the 60 amp watercooled ESC for $25 shipped and a 120 amp watercooled ESC for $45 shipped. If I wait, id likely just get the 120 amp ESC and skip getting the 60,

After all your running, do you think the stock prop will be O.K? I have a bunch of spares but they are all 42mm. Again, ill just be running 2S and I dont need to go super fast. Just want it to plane quickly and stay cool.

pavmentsurfer
03-26-2010, 09:17 PM
Hmmm, yeah, I think ill just run the 50amp ESC for now, if it dies I can get the 60 amp watercooled ESC for $25 shipped and a 120 amp watercooled ESC for $45 shipped. If I wait, id likely just get the 120 amp ESC and skip getting the 60,

After all your running, do you think the stock prop will be O.K? I have a bunch of spares but they are all 42mm. Again, ill just be running 2S and I dont need to go super fast. Just want it to plane quickly and stay cool.

hyrulejedi86
03-26-2010, 09:26 PM
To be honest some people were telling me that it was too big but every prop I tried that was smaller than that just didnt cut it. They had no pick up and low top speed.
Stock prop has good acceleration and speed. Again, just check on your temps as you go, once you've found that whatever prop you choose isn't overheating anything then you can just stick with it.

I personally want to find somewhere to buy a bunch of cheap props of different sizes so that I can find what works best then spend the money and get the equivalent Octura prop. I just have found any place that has a variety and cheap enough to get a few.

pavmentsurfer
03-26-2010, 11:12 PM
Gottcha. Thanks. Ill just run it with teh stock prop and see what happens. I dont have an LHS near by so I have to order everything online. Just want to get all the stuff ill need now so i dont have to wait when the system shows up. Ill post up a video when I get it set up and see how it works.
Thanks so much for all the help.

hyrulejedi86
03-27-2010, 09:23 AM
Looking forward to the video. I just ordered 6 props from here to try, all different sizes.

No problem, if you come up with any other questions feel free to post!

hyrulejedi86
03-27-2010, 10:07 PM
VIDEO ALERT! :)

I finally got to take the Rio Ep out for the spring and it went very well. Check out my newest video! It's awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjanAk4BmQ

traxxas4fun
07-01-2010, 04:32 PM
So what did u end up doing to make the hull stop rolling to the right?

hyrulejedi86
07-01-2010, 05:29 PM
There isn't alot you can do about it. I never got to full throttle on my video, only 1/2 to 3/4 due to the roll.

I messed with the trim tabs on the bottom, moved my battery to the left side of the boat and tried a three blade prop all of which do help reduce the roll but I have yet to find any ultimate solution to it.

petricek
07-02-2010, 02:56 PM
I am curious if you needed that Mikes module or you were able to program your radio to work right without it. I will be searching for ESC for my boat I am building and I want to use it ( an airplane ESC ) in my RIO as well. Thanks.

hyrulejedi86
07-02-2010, 10:31 PM
I ended up getting a new ESC from what I was originally working with, I got the seaking ESC which has been amazing! And I use a traxxas 2.4ghz Link transmitter/receiver. Works great together.

forescott
07-04-2010, 11:33 AM
seaking/turnigy are great esc's for the money, and the programming is easy.

shannon87
08-30-2010, 06:40 AM
hey hirulejedi86 my name is shannon o'shea and i jus posted my own post on my brushless conversion and im using virtually the same combo as you are just the seaking variants anyways i am goin to change the prop to a smaller one around wat u are using anyways someone told me that if u used a prop bigger than 30 mm on a full power run his esc cut out now i dont know wat hull set up he used but since this is a rio ep specific post and u are basically using the same combo i am i thought id ask u these questions do u have any problems with ur esc i plan on using the seaking 3600 kv motor which has a max current draw of 55 amps and a watercooled seaking 60 amp esc and just going to run it on 7.4v 2s lipo pack and he also stated that the 30mm prop did nothing but pretty much cavitate anyways any help would be greatly appreciated jus incase i have to spend anymore money on a higher rated esc cheers i have attached a pic of the said combo i was going to use on my post but i uploaded one here

Mattman
01-09-2011, 10:32 PM
O my god tell me everything you did. I want this in my rio ep!!

hyrulejedi86
01-10-2011, 07:43 AM
Shannon87: I'm so sorry I never responded I don't check this thread regularly anymore and I didn't get notified of the post until mattman replied.

@ Mattman and shannon87 When I get done with patients this afternoon around 430 I'll give you guys some details and what I did to my set up.

larryrose11
01-10-2011, 08:58 AM
hyrulejedi86,
Im using the same motor, but in a Mini Rio! Probally too much motor, but it is fun, especially on 3s. I have a lot of mods on mine. The only thing left stock is the hull.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/album.php?albumid=403

What I have noticed about the props is that the larger ones cause the boat to lean on 1 side when on plane, and cause mine to flip. I have found that turning a larger pitch prop down works quite well. I got great results using a 34*1.5 (Octura y534 Plastic) and trimming it down to 30 mm worked great. A prop balancer is a must if your doing this mods.

LiPo Power
01-10-2011, 09:31 AM
There is no video......
Did you remove it?




VIDEO ALERT! :)

I finally got to take the Rio Ep out for the spring and it went very well. Check out my newest video! It's awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjanAk4BmQ

hyrulejedi86
01-10-2011, 06:01 PM
I did remove the video but here is another one that was my current setup and the last opportunity I had to run it before winter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKl9_z7Z5eo

hyrulejedi86
01-10-2011, 06:08 PM
@Mattman:
I removed the battery tray, motor esc and servo on my EP. Got a turnigy 2600kv 540L size motor, put it along with a watercooling can in the stock motor position. It fit well and I bought a connector here on OSE that matched the stock flex shaft and it works quite well. I also switched out the stock Rx/Tx for a traxxas so I can use the same controller for my Rio Ep and Rustler. Also, I put in a Seaking 60A and run 3s. I am considering getting new turn fins, trim tabs and rudder here but I don't know yet.

Now the last run of the season, I thought I'd try something crazy out. I barely fit the batteries in but I put 4s in there and wow it was amazing!!

DyrtyByrd
01-26-2011, 07:51 PM
i had a question for you i am also doing a brushless conversion and was wondering if you found a suitable prop yet i know your using a 3600kv with 2s i am going to be using a 2300kv and 3s ,should be similar in performance i would think, also i can not find any good props in the 3mm bore range, have you? anyways any info would be helpful thanks

hyrulejedi86
01-26-2011, 08:41 PM
I'm using 2600kv motor on 3s. I've even tried it with 4s (ballistic) the best prop was the stock prop. I also used the stock UL-1 prop and that worked well also. If your having problems with the prop fitting on the flex shaft something like this:
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-1035
can be used to make the prop fit snugly. You would just need the appropriate size adaptor.

I've been considering getting better trim tabs for it and hoping that it helps with the torque roll.

shannon87
01-26-2011, 08:46 PM
hi hyrule ill be using a 2000kv motor and 120amp esc on 2s not 2 crazy also using a new motor mount and fibre glassing the mount and battery tray i just need help with 3 things.

1st can u post a link of the coupler u used that fit the stock rio's flex shaft.

2nd do you or does anyone know of a good replacement battert tray or will the stock hold with fibre reiforcement.

3 wat size prop and 2-3 blade to give a good balance of speed,temp,runtime

I Will also be changing the rudder to an offset F/E any help would be really appreciated

hyrulejedi86
01-26-2011, 09:47 PM
Phew...lots of questions!

1) This ought to work assuming you have a 5mm shaft on your motor:
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-ocfhe5mm13
There is a shorter version of that coupler here on OSE if you need it.

2)I took out my stock tray to access the rest of the boat and reinforce the wooden support for the tubing. In my Rio Ep I have the battery on the left side of the hull next to the motor. My 3s fits just right in there. I put it on that side so that it counter-balances the boat from the torque roll the motor puts on it.

3) The stock size has worked quite well so far 42mm 1.4pitch. Depending on what your motor's size is and how much power it has you could get a deeper pitch prop. The best three blade option would be the stock UL-1 prop. It' runs well and keeps the torquing down.

shannon87
01-26-2011, 10:20 PM
hi hyrule thanks for the help its greatly appreciated the motor will be from my pursuit mono after i change out the motor in that the size of the motor is around the size of a leopard 3674 which i was told would be similar. And i would go the 3 blade and the battery on the left side as you said to help with handling and sorry about all the questions i only have 2 more lol how did you remove the battery holder and how did you attach the new battery i guess you could use the stock tray just reiforced and on the left side cheers again

hyrulejedi86
01-27-2011, 07:50 AM
Its no problem, I actually have been looking at the pursuit or delta force mono for myself to build. They look alot easier to handle and can go faster.

I carefully peeled off the stock tray, is really on there but will come off. I cut it in half and them worked with it. Just be careful that you don't damage the hull. Honestly though after looking back to what I did I would say that if you can fit the battery with the old tray in then leave it. It looks nicer overall.

As for the battery I got some velcrow and put it on the bottom of the hull and some on the battery. That seems to hold the battery just fine.
Hope this helps.

DyrtyByrd
01-27-2011, 12:50 PM
hyrule i have also been pondering the tourque roll even though i havnt seen it first hand i would think a longer and wider trim tab would have more of an effect on the boats attitude as in maybe add an extention on to the factory one for testing just a thought maybe ill try it once my motor and esc get here anyways thanks for the info above

hyrulejedi86
01-27-2011, 05:15 PM
I'd like to hear the results of your testing so I can decide if I will be upgrading my trim tabs.

shannon87
01-28-2011, 03:12 AM
thanks again hyrule yes the pursuit is awesome as per youtube and there is a few build threads on rc groups i cant wait to get mine the original is on a site called kintec racing for 375 it includes a leopard 2200 kv motor and seaking 120 esc but the flex shaft is two piece but they offer a direct bolt in upgrade wich is a one piece give them a try as there really helpful. So thats the 1st mod i was going to do im just going to run a 180 amp esc and castle 2200 as im bying a slightly different version as it dont matter wat motor/esc it comes with as im changin it and to dyrty byrd it would be good to also see the effects with larger trim tabs.

hyrulejedi86
01-28-2011, 07:43 AM
I've seen that one but recently I heard from some guys on here that hobby king has a pursuit that is pretty nice and if you are a platinum member you can get the whole setup except ESC and servo for 179. It even has all metal hardware and all. The only real disadvantage is the motor isn't as nice as a leopard but not bad. The reviews say they can use up to 5s on the motor and get good speeds, I just don't remember what kv it is. I think I'm going to get this soon and put my feigao xl in there on 4s.

shannon87
01-28-2011, 07:57 AM
yer that version is great exept the esc that may come with other versions is rubbish its around 1620 or so kv but ur changin the motor as apparently the stock motors bearings wont last on 4s most people are using the seaking/turnigy 120 amp which can be had for like 40 bucks.

But im going straight to 180 amp and among other things as its being setup to run in aus EA class.

And definately get the one peice shaft other wise you will have to take the strut off to grease as the stub shaft the 2nd piece wont fit through the strut as stated by the guys from rc groups modded this boat u should take a look its got heaps of good info on this boat and the guys are very helpful.

There may be threads on here also. which is where i gained alot of info and also from a fast electric specialist but def have a look at rc groups F/e forums.

I hope the future build goes great for you and cant wait to see ur results and thanks again for ur help on the rio.

And ps the pursuit is actually dearer on hobbyking but its up to u but i think that was the plug and drive setup so my mistake but sayin that there seems to be a few different versions floating around but as i said if ya need the flex shaft pop over to kintec racing as it bolts straight in and the offer other mods for it and have great service and helpful staff. Sorry bout the long reply lol

DyrtyByrd
01-29-2011, 07:42 PM
ofcourse i will post my results as soon as a get a run on it still waiting for my stuff its been 23 days now....
i will also post some pics to show off my new paint job

JoeOvercoat
06-24-2011, 05:19 PM
Are any photos or video of your installation available?