Sea Rider 2000 15.5" cat thread

[befu]

Well, as I got into this hobby again with my fleet of Pro Boat Mini-V’s for the kids, I also impulse purchased one of the Eba_ SeaRider 2000 Catamarans. The hull is about 15.5” long (almost 400mm), has a 30mm prop on it with a nice brushless motor. The speed control is water cooled and the shrink wrap is sealed with a clear putty (like shoo goo).

It was shipped in its original box with pictures on the side just like it came off the shelf! Concerning, but it was bubble wrapped and is a small strong hull, so it made the several thousand mile trip just fine. Box is scrap though!

The hull looks decent, actually fine for the price paid. The gelcoat is good and the hull is strong enough. I know that from running it full speed into the rocks after it submarined on me, but more on that later. One thing I did notice is that both running surfaces have a small hook in them. Not sure if this is designed in or if it is a result of pulling it from the mold too early. If anyone has one and can check it, I would like to know before I flatten out mine.

A couple things about this boat:
The clear lid to tape on for sealing the hull fits odd because the motor sticks up above this surface. So I used a heat gun and put a “bubble” or hump in the clear lid so it now fits without being force deformed over the motor.

The water outlet was a machined aluminum piece, not the hose sticking out the side as shown on Ebay.

I took the turn fins off. I am only running it on 2 cells and it is rated for 3. So my speeds should be low enough that turn fins should not be needed.

I removed about 12” of water line from inside the boat as they were very long! Better too long than too short.

I replaced the drive tube. The original drive line did not seem right. The drive cable is .093 with a 3mm prop shaft. The Teflon liner seemed like it was way too loose, maybe for 1/8” or 3mm drive cable. The shaft also ran in the Teflon tube unsupported. Either way, I drilled and reamed the aluminum stuffing tube out to 3/16”. I then securely epoxied this into the hull as it came right out while drilling it. Into this, I put a piece of 3/16 brass tube from the inside of the aluminum tube to just in front of the strut to hold the new .093 octura Teflon liner. I soldered a ½” long piece of 5/32 brass tubing into the end of the 3/16 tubing and left a ¼” sticking out. This is the correct size to slip into the brass nose piece on the strut. So now the flex cable is securely supported from the collet all the way to where it enters the strut. A simple thing to fix, the drivetrain is now secure and spins freely!

I also added foam into the front of the hull and the hatch cover.

The rudder push rod was not sealed either. Being short on rubber boots and impatient, I put some Vaseline on the pushrod and then sealed it inside and out with a dab of clear silicone. Let it dry and now it slides through the silicone, works pretty good.

Driving
I am running a 2s-2200 battery in this boat in the recommended place. The COG is 4.5” in front of the transom which seems pretty far back, but this is 30% on a 15.5 hull. I tried a 27mm prop from OSE but this did not work. Once on plane, it was great but it was really hard to get it onto plain. So back to the 30mm prop. The 30mm prop from OSE looks and measures identical to the original Sea Rider prop.
Even on two cells this thing jumps right up on plane. Now I need to figure out how to adjust the strut. The pond I ran on twice is fairly large (100 acres?) Both times the wind has been blowing towards the shore and been choppy. Waves in the 1.5” to 2” range I guess. Not real rough, but for a 15” boat this is choppy.

First time with the strut parallel and at the bottom of the ride surface it was hopping real bad. Bow up and 45 degrees and then down, up and down. Tried a few places and angled prop down to try to plant the bow some. It worked but too much and it would hook the nose and spin.

Twice I submarined it. Driving full speed it would bounce and just disappear under water. You could see the yellow and white color disappear down into the depths with the prop still pushing it! About 10 seconds later it comes back up and off it goes!:w00t: Well, a few minutes later it happened again. And nothing. 10 seconds.:sad: Still nothing, did it sink? 20 seconds…. It can’t sink, it has too much foam in it.:crying: 25 seconds… Can’t believe its gone. It has to come back up unless it went deep enough and got caught on something… around 30 seconds it comes back up floating fairly level and the prop still spinning! Jumps on plane, scoots towards shore, hits the football sized rocks and makes a clean jump up the two foot high bank and lands upside down about 8’ into the yard upside down with the prop spinning. Then the motor shuts off. Huh?!?!? Hatch and tape actually held but it had some water in it which got into my Spektrum 3ch receiver and glitched it.

Well, a scuff in the hull, a hair line crack in the gelcoat at one of the strakes and a bent brass stuffing tube. Nothing else wrong! Brass tube has been replaced and it is ready to go again.

So, how the heck do you trim these little guys out? I am now thinking on how flighty this little cat is I should have bought a Velocity mono from Sailr. Dang impulse buys!

I will have to post some pics and also try to get a video of it running. Going to try again today and see if I can get some calmer water.

Brian

[6S HYDRO]

any piks of this thing? you got a full page describing the thing- i wanna see it

[6S HYDRO]

Only thing on ebay under sea rider is made out of legos's- is this a lego boat?

[marko500]

I also have one of the Velocity mini cats. I run it on a 3s 1500mah lipo. I trim it out by moving the battery fore or aft. The steering servo, esc are on the right (starboard) side,the receiver is in the left (port) rear corner and the battery is in front of that. Mine will hop a little starting out but once its up to speed she flattens right out. As stated 2" chop is pretty big for that size boat, I think it will hop no matter what you do in those conditions. I don't use the plastic sheet cover instead I just tape the hatch down, someone said this helps to self right the hull a little bit. Shes gone over but ends up right side up a little better than 3/4 of the time. My sons and I love this little boat!

[6S HYDRO]

Its not a velocity its a sea rider? Cant find this

[marko500]

I've seen them on ebay but have been looking and can't find one either. the Velocity at Mini Cat Racing looks the same but supposedly uses some better components. I know that there is a place up in Toronto Canada and someone in Australia that sells or used to sell the sea rider version.

[befu]

This isn't the lego forum!?!?! No wonder all these boats look fantastic!!! I been searching for these custom pieces for weeks!!!!!! :sarcasm1:

Sorry, didn't mean to cause such a visual impaired problem!!!:thumbsdown:

It appears the seller is not listing any right now on Ebay. They still have the mini V for the same price. Seller is RChobbydepot

A few pics of the hull from the ebay add:

As mentioned, I changed the stuffing tube so it is brass all the way to the strut. Removed the turn fins. Also removed the antenae as I have the 2.4 Ghz.
I also filled the canopy with foam. Another thing I did was to silver solder the end of the flex cable where it goes into the motor coupler.
Oh, that and the scratch on the bottom!

brian

[befu]

OK, ran it for the 3ird time now. Moved the battery forward a bit. Water was a little calmer, still kinda wavy.

Well, it did do a little better, but still hoping bad and pushing the nose to high. Ended up flipping it after a couple of minutes and had to go take it in. while opening it up to move the battery further forward, a drop of water came off the hatch and right into the reciever, glitching again:doh:

After that, the wind died and the water got nice and calm:confused2:

I can't win. So I will try again later.

The hardware is nice, motor runs great. Might end up building a WOF cat hull and put it in that. Either that of a scale offshore hull. We will see, more runs needed.

I think I will go play with legos now......:crying:

Brian

[crabstick]

cool little cat.

that would go well in the ponds at the golf course!

[marko500]

You are going to need to waterproof the receiver. Everybody has their favorite method. I just use a condom (I made sure to tell my wife what I used them for before she found them in my tool box and started to wonder about all the time I spend at the pond) Keep the receiver dry and thats one less thing to worry about or lose a boat over. Think its fun on 2s ,if its rated for it you should try it on 3s sometime!

[befu]

yeah, I will wrap the receiver. Below are a couple of pics of my boat. The one shows the brass stuffing tube added. The other is of the bottom ride pad, trying to show the slight hook.

Pictures not uploading right now, will add them later.

Brian

[crabstick]

your best bet is to coat the receiver with DP270 epoxy, available from OSE.

it will then run underwater if you ever feel the need

[bustitup]

just a heads up:

there is one of these for sale at rc universe for $130...its red and white


This isn't the lego forum!?!?! No wonder all these boats look fantastic!!! I been searching for these custom pieces for weeks!!!!!! :sarcasm1:

Sorry, didn't mean to cause such a visual impaired problem!!!:thumbsdown:

It appears the seller is not listing any right now on Ebay. They still have the mini V for the same price. Seller is RChobbydepot

A few pics of the hull from the ebay add:

As mentioned, I changed the stuffing tube so it is brass all the way to the strut. Removed the turn fins. Also removed the antenae as I have the 2.4 Ghz.
I also filled the canopy with foam. Another thing I did was to silver solder the end of the flex cable where it goes into the motor coupler.
Oh, that and the scratch on the bottom!

brian

[befu]

I remember seeing one for sale right after I ordered mine - that is how it works. Can't find it now.

well, just tried the 4th run. How come when I leave work, the flags are hanging limp, no movement. But when I get to the pond, thier is a stiff breeze breaking the surface?

Still pretty calm this time, moved the battery another 1/2" or so forward and the COG is now 5" from the transom, or 32% of hull.

Ran better, but only had about 3 minutes to run before I had to get home! Actually drove it back in and didn't have to retrieve it. :banana: Will try to get out there this evening and get a video.

Boat ran well. Still corners great without the turnfins, plenty sharp. Sits right down, plants the outside sponson and carves a turn without hopping. Along the straights it is almost dialed in. It runs great until it reaches top speed and then you can hear it hopping as the prop comes out of the water. I will move the battery another 1/2" forward and see how it does.

Water is definately getting into the hull. Only 3 min of running, no wipeouts or flips but still a little water in the hull. Could be a leaking water line also, need to test it in the sink.

This boat is designed for 3 cells, but I have about 8 of the 2s-2200's so I am trying to run it on that. I do not want it to fast as I want my kids to be able to run it. Still not sure about that. You have to drive this thing, not just run it.

below are the pics I was trying to upload in the other post. One is the stuffing tube I added, the other is of the ride surface.

The only 3s I have is a 12c-1200 so not sure if it will work. I will try it, but only for a short burst as I am sure it will pull to much amperage for that battery.

[marko500]

Mine was leaking water up the drive shaft. I put a short piece of cooling line part over the stuffing tube and part over the flex shaft. The piece is only about 3/8 to 1/2 inch long. Mine also leaked in around the rudder pushrod which you already fixed. I would post a picture but my son went camping this weekend and took my camera.

[befu]

Good idea on the stuffing tube, I will have to try that. So, with three cells would you be able to check where your COG is at? also, what is the mAhr rating of your battery.

Is the bottom of your sponson flat or is there a slight hook in them?

Thank you.

Brian


Mine was leaking water up the drive shaft. I put a short piece of cooling line part over the stuffing tube and part over the flex shaft. The piece is only about 3/8 to 1/2 inch long. Mine also leaked in around the rudder pushrod which you already fixed. I would post a picture but my son went camping this weekend and took my camera.

[marko500]

The 3s battery I run is 1500mah. I'm leaving in a few minutes for a party but I will check COG and sponson bottoms when I get back. I'll let you know this evening.

[befu]

The 3s battery I run is 1500mah. I'm leaving in a few minutes for a party but I will check COG and sponson bottoms when I get back. I'll let you know this evening.

Well, my 2s-2200 should weigh pretty close to your 3s 1500.

What kind of run time do you get with your 3s-1500's. I haven't had mine running long enough to find out the run time on the 2200's yet.

Brian

[marko500]

My COG is 4-1/2" from the transom but I still have both turn fins on the boat, just never bothered to take them off. The bottom of the sponsons are level no hook or rocker in them. As far as run time I don't have a lipo cutoff so we don't run too long, probably 2-3 min. but I'm just guessing. My3s battery should only be a couple grams heavier then a 2s.

[befu]

Well, got out this evening and ran it again. With the same 2s-2200 that had been run for a couple of minutes before, I ran it again (no charging).

Run time was about 6 1/2 to 7 minutes, so maybe 8 to 8 1/2 minutes at full throttle? That probably means 15 to 16 amps with a 2s?

Water was smooth, not a mirror but close to it. Moved the battery another 1/2" forward and it ran fine. Right up on plane, hopped around at lower speeds, smoothed out above 1/2 throttle. Definately running a little wet.

the left sponson was up and looking good. The back couple inches of the outside were wet, the inside was 1/2 the hull? the right side was running really wet. lots of spray coming off the right side, way more than the left. Not sure why, but this is definately not right.

Could it be the hook in the ride surface? Or prop torque? Only a 30mm prop on it.
The left side is heavier with the battery on that side and it sits lower in the water at rest.

Also ran it on 3s. Definately scoots right along but that right side is still too wet. Maybe the rudder is causing it. Lift I would think would plant the right bow but lift the stern. Digging in would plant the stern. That combined with the COG to far forward?

should have bought the mono....

The drive train is fantastic! Nice and smooth, everything is cool. Anyone have a 15" to 18" off shore hull?:laugh: Not sure about cats. They run great in smooth water, but so does a rigger or scale hydro. Cat turns both ways though. When it is rough, the mono's seem to do better. Not running worried about the blow over. also never stuffed a mono so it stayed under 30 seconds!:w00t:

Hmm. Also ran the mini-v on 7.4 volt again. Went with a 27mm prop. With the flex drive and lipo, it is still faster than stock and run times should be great!

Brian

[marko500]

Mine seems to run a little wet when the water is smooth but loosens up with a slight ripple on the water. Mine also sits low on the left when at rest but the prop torque lifts the left when underway. The inside of the sponson sits deeper than the outside due to a slight v in the hull (the bottoms of the sponsons are not flat across the width of the boat). I moved my components around to get the best balance when running, not at rest. maybe you can move the receiver, esc or battery a little to get it where you want it.Trimming a small boat is harder then a larger one, think 8' rowboat vs 25' cruiser. Be patient and have fun you'll get it figured out! Mark

[befu]

OK, took off the turn fin hardware tonight and epoxied the holes up as well as around the stuffing tube. Both spots were leaking in the sink test.

I also block sanded the running surface. On mine the dihedral slowly goes away as you go forward. Midship it is about half what the transom dihedral is. that change in dihedral is still there, but some of the hook is gone now.

The speed control is on the right side of the tunnel, half hanging into the sponson space, Rc in the middle. Rc weighs almost nothing, so that will not change anything.

I can also trim my rudder down about 1/2" before I would have to mill a new water inlet hole. This thing has plenty of rudder control, way more than it needs and that is just drag!

I also raised the strut as the bottom of the strut was about .1" below the sponsons. Now the bottom of the strut is equal with the sponsons.

i will keep playing with it. Maybe I will set it up to run on 2s-2200 in rough water with battery forward to keep the nose down, and on 3s - ??? for smooth water for speed.

Will see what it does next time out. Thank you for the reply

Brian



Mine seems to run a little wet when the water is smooth but loosens up with a slight ripple on the water. Mine also sits low on the left when at rest but the prop torque lifts the left when underway. The inside of the sponson sits deeper than the outside due to a slight v in the hull (the bottoms of the sponsons are not flat across the width of the boat). I moved my components around to get the best balance when running, not at rest. maybe you can move the receiver, esc or battery a little to get it where you want it.Trimming a small boat is harder then a larger one, think 8' rowboat vs 25' cruiser. Be patient and have fun you'll get it figured out! Mark

[befu]

OK, ran it again. This thing is really leaking bad. In a 8 minute run I have to bring it in twice to empty it and when the battery dumps. Enough water that it severly changes the run characteristics. This much shouldn't be coming in the stuffing tube. It is either the water outlet which I noticed is loose or one of the cooling hoses leacks. I will work on both tonight.

Flat water, ran well on the 2s, didn't have a 3s with me. Nice and cool, but that could be the cup of water splashing around in the hull also :doh:

the right side is running way wet. As it goes by you can see the water coming off the right sidewall of the hull along the transom. i mean a sheet from the bottom chine all the way up to the hull seam. The right side is WAY wet!

I will have to run it on 3s and see if that lifts it out of the water, but it is going plenty fast.?.? Raising the strut didn't help either. It is slower out of the hole, cavitates a bit but then pops up on plane and runs well, so I do not think the strut is to high. Going deeper I would think it would push the sponson more into the water. Need to get a video of it....

Brian

[marko500]

Did you put the piece of hose on the driveshaft? Mine did not leak in the sink but when running the flex tends to "pump" water into the hull. There are only so many places for water to get into the hull. On mine the bottom of my strut is level with the sponson bottoms. Did you try a little positive or negative angle on the strut? Too bad we could'nt run them side by side to set them up. The boats small so to video tape it is pretty hard. I'm starting to think we're the only people to buy these boats!

[befu]

Fuel piece is installed. The water outlet was also not installed correctly. some of the seam glue dripped down and was keeping the nut on the water outlet from seating evenly. Some might have been coming in there. I fixed that and sealed it up.

The water lines all seem sealed.

I also put on an Octura X431 red plastic prop.

I will try it again, but that right sponson being so wet is what is bothering me. I am wondering if I will need to widen that sponson pad by 1/8" to 1/4".

[befu]

OK, still getting water in the hull, but not as much. Ran it the first time with one of the 2s-2200's from HK that I had not charged yet. It was reading full, so I tried it. Ran full speed on and off for about 10 minutes. Not bad. Nose was hopping bad so I brought it in and raised the strut and angled it to push the nose down some. Made an improvement in the nose attitude. Also cavitated coming out of the hole, but punch it and it gets on plane.

After 10 minutes, not as much water in the hull as before. After that I changed batteries. A freshly charged 2s-2200. Water calmed down and I was able to run it full speed, even through the turns. I was timing it but at 5 minutes I lost a blade off the prop:cursing:

Still not sure about the run time, but 8 to 10 minutes seems good on a cheap 2s.

have to get this water under control. I think I will try it without the water cooling and see if that is doing it.

[marko500]

Just a thought but did you pressurize the water cooling system, maybe the water jacket on the motor is leaking? My boat still gets a little water in it maybe about 1/4 teaspoon or so. Also check the seam between the hull and deck mine had a small hole in the seam in front between the sponsons.

[j.m.]

Two words:

Pushrod seal.

[befu]

Well, after seeing other people do it, I also added a piece of shrink wrap to the stuffing tube overlapping the front of the strut. 95% of the water is gone now. At the end of 5 minutes there was about 1/2 teaspoon of water in the hull. It even submarined on me once, but was only under a second or two. Also had a minutes or so of idle drifting time, so could be seaping in through somewhere.

I will be continueing to work on this.

Water was rough and it did not run well. Since the run times were nice and long on the X431 plastic prop, I decided to try a X531 this time. The motor pushed it but the torque was worse. With the waves the transom would be violently pulled to the left (right turn) whenever it hopped out of the water above 1/2 throttle. I will be going back down to the X431 red plastic prop. The minicatracing one runs a 32mm prop. I am wondering how much removing the turn fins is effecting this? Of course, the one in thier video also seems to hop sideways like that when it leaves the water sometimes. Had to make it worse, just not sure how much worse. And yes, I epoxied the holes over:doh:

Push rod is sealed. Sealed it with silicone inside and out. maybe you were thinking three words: pushrod seal boot! :blah: I know, smart a$$.

Of course, this time the inside was pretty dry, but I think the receiver died. So going to be ordering a new 2.4Ghz radio and will take it from there.

[befu]

OK, I HATE taping the hatch everytime, so I am trying to get it sealed without tape. here is what I did

I filled the hatch with expanding foam and sanded it flush. I then epoxied the outside 1/4" so it was flat with the bottom of the hatch. I ran some 1/4" wide x 1/8" foam around the hull where the hatch hits. I think it was a small roll of dubro wing saddle foam tape? Not sure if I have the label anywhere anymore. Had it from years and years ago, do not remember why I bought it.

So, you just attach the lid with the thumb nut like normal, but no taping.

Haven't had it upside down yet, so not sure how it works.

Brian

[befu]

Well, ran the boat again. This time I got to run it with 3s and on pretty smooth water, little wind X431 red prop.

Put it out there, goosed the throttle to get it up on plane, ran into the wind at half throttle, turned and opened it up. HOLY CRAP!!:eek: The thing took off skimming the water. Plenty of speed. The third time it lost the flex cable, shaft and prop right out the back, dang!

So, I will put in a new cable, shaft and prop and go at it again. Still want to put these guts into a mystic looking hull...

Brian

[screwball]

thats really cool im definatley trying it on my velocity mono and maybe my msc if i can figure it out

[VooDuuChild]

Sounds like it's been a bit of work, but dang, if you get it to run right should be a wicked fun little machine....I'll be keepin an eye on this thread.....I REALLY hope that taking off the turn tab thingies (technical jargon) isn't what upset the boats handling balance...

Holy crap, I just realized how old this thread is,,,hahaa.

oops.

[befu]

That is ok, things tend to stall when the water turns solid!

Just melted off this week, so we will see about getting the boats out again here soon.

Brian

[steamboatbob]

I just got mine off ebay but a badly packaged hull ruined my day

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee84/steamboatbob/The%20Dictator/03052010180.jpg

As you can see the hull is cracked at the seam at the rear of the hull just above the rudder mount.

but a little bit of epoxy glue will sort that right out. and that is the only place whare water comes in atm so i guess im a little happy.:sarcasm1:

If worse comes to worse i shall salvage the hull for all the hardware to go into my other Micro Hydro
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19378.0

[steamboatbob]

ok whati did with mine was easy i had to change the motor coupling as it was shot and so was the drive shaft so i ordered a .98 flx with a 1/8 stubshaft and a new coupler, I drilled out the strut to suit the new stub shaft. grabbed an octura x430 metal prop and ran it on 7.4 and then on 11.1. My only problem is that it tends to porpise or hop a lot and that is something i do not know how to control.

7.4 was nice to run with no probs and no water in the hull

11.1 was skittish to say the least and i had a hard time avoiding ducks

Heat was not a problem on either battery both the motor and esc were very cool to touch after the runs on both batteries.

i left the turn fins on but i think next time i run the 11.1v i will remove them as it hooks into turns real nasty like


and yes i incorrectly labled the videos in you tube :doh:

7.4 Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dak4CAJ71jM

11.1 Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMwOFp1RS9s&feature=channel

[bigpapa]

cool boat you have congrats looks great...........

[scubasteve95]

go to the velocity thead and you can get some good ideas...
the hull i would say cracked from a small impact on the rudder,
turn the mount over and put a plastic screw in there and that won't happen again.

[Simon.O.]

On 3S or 11.1v it is deffo running well.
I have read the first page of this thread and have seen a few of the changes youy have made.

What is the setup now or more importantly what was the setup in the 11.1 video clip.
Motor, esc, pack and prop.

Thanks, Simon.