Castle Ice controllers

[Raydee]

Read this post, I thought 150 degree's was Hot
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12978101&postcount=14

[Fluid]

Gadzooks - that's hot alright. Keep it under 250F indeed..... :eek:







.

[Raydee]

I was going to email Patrick and see if it was a typo but he did type it twice so maybe it is true.

[alvinsmith75]

He has to mean 150 and 180. You should print a copy and then e-mail.

[Raydee]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12991365&postcount=19
There is the response I got from Patrick at Castle about the ICE esc's .......I hope they make a Hydra Ice!

[tth]

Sounds like it could be good for boats with the High Amp needs!!!

[Steven Vaccaro]

I can't see why we cant run a airplane version without water cooling if they run that hot?

[tth]

I can't see why we cant run a airplane version without water cooling if they run that hot?

My thoughts exactly!!!

[Fluid]

The problem may be the FETs. Most are rated at 25C (77F), and as the temp increases so does the resistance. Eventually it becomes a spiral to overtemp regardless of how high that is. If the FETs used on the Ice are different, then it may be a somewhat step-changing ESC.

Reasons why boaters may not want to use it - not wheel radio compatable; not efficiently cooled without plenty of air flow; inability to effectively water cool it; not warranteed because it is being used outside its official designed use. All of these could probably be overcome, but I'd wait for the official marine version myself.



.

[Ub Hauled]

Pat told me that a marine version of ICE will be made... that was a few months back at the RCX here in L.A.
He also told me that there were some things that needed to be taken care prior to finalize the Marine version... in other words, it may be some time before one could see one of those ESCs around.
I hope I'm wrong.

[bustitup]

why dont they just make the existing HV 240 to work as advertized or stop selling them untill there working properly...I really hate to bad mouth CC because I have allways liked there service and products but its just not right to have a $500 esc die on plug in

[Joe Ford]

why dont they just make the existing HV 240 to work as advertized or stop selling them untill there working properly...I really hate to bad mouth CC because I have allways liked there service and products but its just not right to have a $500 esc die on plug in

Send one of these to me please. I want to see it and will make engineering look at it. Especially now that I'm "one of you" and am getting hooked on boats. Setting up a TT Outlaw 7.5 right now...HV240. ;)

And yes, we will be doing a boat version of the ICE down the road. Hold tight guys.

[bustitup]

Joe mine got shipped this morning from 33478.....it was shipped priority.....it has a note inside the box with attention to Jen and has my phone number....please look for it.....




Send one of these to me please. I want to see it and will make engineering look at it. Especially now that I'm "one of you" and am getting hooked on boats. Setting up a TT Outlaw 7.5 right now...HV240. ;)

And yes, we will be doing a boat version of the ICE down the road. Hold tight guys.

[Joe Ford]

EXCELLENT! Thank you for chiming in so quickly! I'll keep an eye out for it and have Jenny bring it straight to me. THANK YOU!!!

[Doug Smock]

EXCELLENT! Thank you for chiming in so quickly! I'll keep an eye out for it and have Jenny bring it straight to me. THANK YOU!!!

:thumbup1::beerchug:

[Raydee]

Send one of these to me please. I want to see it and will make engineering look at it. Especially now that I'm "one of you" and am getting hooked on boats. Setting up a TT Outlaw 7.5 right now...HV240. ;)

And yes, we will be doing a boat version of the ICE down the road. Hold tight guys.

Yeah Baby, that is what we need! One of the Castle guys actually hooked on boats is great. I bet now we (Boaters) will get more attention like the Flyer's get ;)

By the Way my Ice 75 for one of my heli's came in today...nice looking ESC :rockon2:

[Ub Hauled]

By the Way my Ice 75 for one of my heli's came in today...nice looking ESC :rockon2:

I have o agree with you Ray, it's a very nice looking ESC... can't wait for the Marine version...:thumbup:

[Joe Ford]

Yeah Baby, that is what we need! One of the Castle guys actually hooked on boats is great. I bet now we (Boaters) will get more attention like the Flyer's get ;)

By the Way my Ice 75 for one of my heli's came in today...nice looking ESC :rockon2:

LOL!!! It was only a matter of time. I was sent one of the Vac-u-Pickle boats, and tried it out. Instantly hooked. Being from a pylon plane background where 180mph is an everyday occurence I couldn't believe that boat scared the life out of me. LOL Not sure how fast it's going but about 40 I'd say. Now that I've run it every night possible after work I need MORE SPEED. Pond I'm at is flat as a plate of glass every night. Could be 40mph winds (which we get quite often in KS) and still flat water. Protected on 3 sides by trees, and the 4th side by a big berm of earth. Thinking the next one will be a rigger. :) And yep, if you want something done, get one of us hooked. LOL I'm relentless....

And thanks to you both for the kind words re the ICE. Took us a while to design that beauty.

[D. Newland]

Joe-There's a little FE race going on in Michigan Sept 17th-20th. It would be a terrific R&D trip for you.

[Doug Smock]

LOL!!! It was only a matter of time. I was sent one of the Vac-u-Pickle boats, and tried it out. Instantly hooked.

That's one of the boats from the Hydro Shootout right???
I was wondering if it would ever see the water again, glad you're having fun with it!!!:thumbup1:
Thanks again for your help with the project!
Doug

[domwilson]

Joe, Is it safe to run the hydra 120 LV on 4s with the BEC? I've read some say yes and others say no. Can you clarify?

[tth]

Nice to see you coming into "our" world Joe. Welcome aboard the FE addiction. I have been running nitro boats for many years. FE re-ignited that spark. Thanks for everything that you and Castle have done for all of us.

[RCprince]

These bad boys even come with a built-in data logger


http://www.castlecreations.com/products/phoenix_ice.html

Data Logging
Ice brings another incredibly useful feature, extensive data logging capabilities. The controllers are able to measure and record many parameters at sample rates that you choose between 10 samples per second and 1 sample per second. Data points include:

* Battery Voltage
* Battery Ripple
* Battery Current
* Controller Temperature
* Controller Input Throttle
* Controller Motor Power Output
* Motor RPM

[Ub Hauled]

Ain't that sweet!

[Joe Ford]

Joe-There's a little FE race going on in Michigan Sept 17th-20th. It would be a terrific R&D trip for you.

Only problem is this is the same time as one of our largest events of the year...the NEAT Fair. I will recommend it, but not sure if we have the manpower. We all go to NEAT, and I know tickets are booked way in advance. Will check on it though.


That's one of the boats from the Hydro Shootout right???
I was wondering if it would ever see the water again, glad you're having fun with it!!!:thumbup1:
Thanks again for your help with the project!
Doug

You know it. :thumbup1: That thing ROCKS. I love it. Like I said though...now I need more speed. LOL You don't know how many times I've thought about connecting those 2s FP 5000's in series instead of parallel. :biggrin: No worries about her ever seeing the water again...she sees it nearly every night and will continue to until I can't hold the radio in my hand from the temps dropping here. Come spring though, she'll be back again. :rockon2:


Joe, Is it safe to run the hydra 120 LV on 4s with the BEC? I've read some say yes and others say no. Can you clarify?

I've run on 4s with the BEC, and I have had it cut out once while doing steady, full throttle circles on the pond. I'm using 2.4 so any voltage drop will do that though. Not sure if the BEC dropped out completely or voltage just sagged a little too much. Either way, officially, I have to recommend using a separate power supply for the receiver and servos. Strictly a matter of safety. I have had a BL 1/8th scale car I just finished go full bore down the road and slam into a mailbox post when the voltage to my rx dropped the slightest bit. Was not pretty...and I'd hate to see what would happen with a boat. I've been using little 2s 800mah lipos with one of the linear BECs off our old Phoenix controllers since that drop out (knew they'd come in handy some day...holding onto them for 2+ years!). Problem solved...


Nice to see you coming into "our" world Joe. Welcome aboard the FE addiction. I have been running nitro boats for many years. FE re-ignited that spark. Thanks for everything that you and Castle have done for all of us.

I finally "get you guys" now that I'm hooked too. So THANK YOU ALL!!!

ICE boat ESCs will have the same features too so you guys can see what kind of current you're drawing, what your batteries are doing, etc. Going to get an update from the engineers and see what they say about when we may have them out. Let you all know.

[bustitup]

Joe..tough question coming

while I am waiting for my 240 HV to return from CC..what do you think of me running my hydra 240 LV on 6s2p? motor again is 1527/1y and batts are 2 x 6s 30c 5000mah

and what do you think of using a anti spark arrester to eliminate the big spark on plug in

34" sprintcat hull

[Eodman]

There's a lot of nice things that the Ice may offer .... but at what price point! After losing 2 Hydra 240's this weekend I have to say I am more than a little gun shy in investing in an even more expensive ESC!

Not trashing Castle here .... just pure economics!

[bustitup]

Joe this is the spark arrestor I was refering too...some have said use a 1 ohm resister instead of 20 for the 240 hv

what do your techs think of this setup?

if this works dont you think it should be factory installed?

http://www.rgcbuilders.net/spark.jpg

[hebner]

Bustitup,
I have a Aeromarine Team Believer Cat that is same lenght and has same running surface as your Sprintcat, I use Hydra 240LV, 1527/1Y and 6s2p 35C Elite 5000 been running this set up for @ 1 year never had a problem. Knock on Wood! I will be at the Brandon Model Boaters race on 9/20. Our club the Aquamaniacs will be racing at least three classes. You should try to make it.
Hugh

[bustitup]

Bustitup,
I have a Aeromarine Team Believer Cat that is same lenght and has same running surface as your Sprintcat, I use Hydra 240LV, 1527/1Y and 6s2p 35C Elite 5000 been running this set up for @ 1 year never had a problem. Knock on Wood! I will be at the Brandon Model Boaters race on 9/20. Our club the Aquamaniacs will be racing at least three classes. You should try to make it.
Hugh

That is music to my ears Hugh

Few questions
R u using castle link 1,04
Speed
Prop
Using spark arestor?
What timing

[hebner]

Nick,
Sent you a PM
Hugh

[Fluid]

Way to go Hugh, tight-hole the rest of us why don't ya! ;)




.

[hebner]

:sorry: Didn't want to clutter the Castle Ice Controller thread.

[RCprince]

There's a lot of nice things that the Ice may offer .... but at what price point! After losing 2 Hydra 240's this weekend I have to say I am more than a little gun shy in investing in an even more expensive ESC!

Not trashing Castle here .... just pure economics!

I've seen the 100amp 34v for 115.00

[Raydee]

Yeah the Ice controllers are a bargain, if the boat esc's follow the lead then they might be priced better than the current hydra's too.

[Joe Ford]

And most likely they will be pretty low. The ICEs are priced lower than the Phoenix controllers they're replacing. More of everything (quality, processing power, etc) for less $. Selling like hot cakes.

bustit...should be ok, just watch motor and ESC temps. You're pushing the voltage of the ESC, but as long as you use good quality batteries and set her up right you shouldn't have a problem. Don't let her run wet though. For the spark arrestor...use a 1 ohm 5W resistor. Anything higher and you can have cutoff issues...especially when we add auto-lipo function to the software in the next release (yes, I've been making waves for us boaters :) ).

Eod....two???? What happened? Did you email me @ work at all? Send them in? Shoot me a PM and we'll get this resolved. Didn't take it as trash talking. I realize that problems happen...keep a cool head and I'm willing to work with anyone. Raised by a lifer Marine though so piss me off and I'm sure you know the rest...just like my dad. lol Seriously though, doesn't matter if you were calling me every name in the book...I'm always willing and happy to help our customers even if starting off on the wrong foot. No worries about posing hard questions. I don't run and hide.

[Raydee]

Joe, you don't fly heli or plane do you? I have a pretty technical question for one of the CC guys about my Ice 75 in my 500 size heli that I installed today.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Joe will there be any higher amp Ice controls released?

[Eodman]

Yeah Joe, I have a Toysport Jolly that's twin drive.

Setup is as follows 2- Feigao 8xl's watercooled, Hydra 240's, Counter rotating Octura x442 props & Hyperion G3 4s1p lipos 1 per side.

Went to hook the batteries up - got the first one hooked as I finished hooking up the second one the 1st one let the smoke out followed by the second one! Got a spark and I was looking for the genie!

Never found that girl!:rofl:

Joe I have to say Castle has been very supportive of me and my fellow servicemen ... but I can only afford this a few times before I start to look at other alternatives!

That's not bad mouthing it just comes down to finances! I know you guys are trying your damndest to resolve this!

This is the Cat in question at speed late last year!

[Joe Ford]

Steve...can't comment there. I hope so though.

Eod...definitely going to do everything in my power. Not liking the fact that a cheap chinese ESC is starting to be considered superior to our product...for what you guys pay it should work all the way up until you mess up. LOL Not that I've ever smoked an ESC before doing such things. :sarcasm1: Beautiful cat BTW! If you haven't sent those ESCs in yet, send them to my attention please. I have a feeling something happened in the first ESC and somehow took out the second...what, I'll try and figure out.

[sailr]

Joe, are the ICE controllers going to come out in something higher than 100A?

[Ub Hauled]

Joe, are the ICE controllers going to come out in something higher than 100A?


Not known,
View post #38 & #40

[DISAR]

One question that should be answered by Mr.Ford is if they have come up to any conclusion why some of the Hydras HV died on plug in or soon after. Is it programing-software? material defect? poor workmaship-assembly? user handling? impedance? high volts? high amps? extra long cables? water submersion?
The thing is that some work OK and some die, there must be a reason for this and a good explanation may attract people back to Hydras HV.

The most common causes can be used also as NOT TO DO items in order to have our ESCs live longer. Mr.Joe Ford pls help us!

[Ub Hauled]

He just got his hands on one and is examining, like he posted either here on this thread or one other thread going on .... jury is out.

[ozzie-crawl]

i know i ramble on a bit about the himodel/mystery esc,s
but as far as the hydras go if they were near bullet proof i would try and scrap the coin up to try one, but then what you pay in the u.s for a 240 i would only get a 120. then if there is a problem its larger shipping costs as well. thats why the mystery/himodels i believe are so popular= cheap out lay if there is a problem buying a new one isnt much more expensive than the return postage for a hydra warranty
my 2c
scott

[DISAR]

I have lost 5 himodel 200As until now and I will not buy again one. 2-3 of them died with no apparent reason, during programming-after launching-during playing.
No matter water-cooling-proofing etc. they died

[Joe Ford]

One question that should be answered by Mr.Ford is if they have come up to any conclusion why some of the Hydras HV died on plug in or soon after. Is it programing-software? material defect? poor workmaship-assembly? user handling? impedance? high volts? high amps? extra long cables? water submersion?
The thing is that some work OK and some die, there must be a reason for this and a good explanation may attract people back to Hydras HV.

The most common causes can be used also as NOT TO DO items in order to have our ESCs live longer. Mr.Joe Ford pls help us!

Working on it. :)

[jantagg]

Dear Joe,

I sent in for repair my HV240 controller after it smoked after the first run. I admit that the boat was bouncing badly and that most likely caused the current to surge. (6S/2P P-Sport hydro.) Thankfully, you are going to replace the controller at no charge.

I spoke to a Castle tech. guy to day about the problem with the HV controllers (I use the LV240 without any trouble) and he informed me that it is best to use the HV controller only during time of smooth water. That seems a bit impractical so, I hope that Castle will work on fixing the software problem. MY MGM controller doesn't seem to have the problem; but, I don't trust it with a 10S setup.

I would buy American products, even if they cost a bit more, if they were quality reliable products.

Tom T

[Raydee]

I flew my Heli today with the GOV mode setup. The Data logger is probably one of the best things in a ESC I have ever seen. No extra wires for a seperate data logger to deal with, just plug in your castle link and download the info. Make's setup a breeze, no more guessing. I truely can't wait till they are available for the boats. For the price of the ESC, you get a ESC, data logger and a BEC.....win win win!!!!

Sorry :)

[Ub Hauled]

OOOOOOOOOOOO Lordie lord!!!!!

[Joe Ford]

Dear Joe,

I sent in for repair my HV240 controller after it smoked after the first run. I admit that the boat was bouncing badly and that most likely caused the current to surge. (6S/2P P-Sport hydro.) Thankfully, you are going to replace the controller at no charge.

I spoke to a Castle tech. guy to day about the problem with the HV controllers (I use the LV240 without any trouble) and he informed me that it is best to use the HV controller only during time of smooth water. That seems a bit impractical so, I hope that Castle will work on fixing the software problem. MY MGM controller doesn't seem to have the problem; but, I don't trust it with a 10S setup.

I would buy American products, even if they cost a bit more, if they were quality reliable products.

Tom T

Who said that? I think he may be referring to very choppy water where the prop comes out of the water (along with the rest of the boat), the prop unloads, and then hits the water at very high speed....and then there's a huge amp spike. This is hard on a controller, but IMO I don't think that would be too much of an issue...especially since I've done this quite a few times learning to drive these things and haven't had an issue. It's not a software issue he was referring to...it's an amperage issue. I'm the "boat guy" now so just email me. The more I drive these the more info I'll be able to help out with. I'm a sponge when it comes to something I have interest in. I do all the emails at support@castlecreations.com...put "OE FORUMS" as the title and I'll get to it asap.

[domwilson]

Hey Joe,

I asked a this last night. I guess it got overlooked with all the questions you were being asked..."For me, Auto lipo as the default would be fine as most people use lipos I would say. Will it allow for manual adjustment of the cutoff voltage? What is the proposed cutoff voltage for auto-lipo?"

[Joe Ford]

Gotcha. I see now that there was one other person that replied. Maybe I'll start a poll. :)

[Joe Ford]

There...poll started. http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=10134

[sailr]

Think about how cool it would be if you could read that data at the site! Castle needs to make a small LCD 'readout box' giving you the basics like peak amps, peak volts, max motor temp, max battery temp, etc. This would be incredibly helpful in choosing the correct prop, etc. without needing to go back home and plug into your computer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, get a laptop.

Joe, you reading this? A chinese manufacturer is already working on their 'at site' readout box!


I flew my Heli today with the GOV mode setup. The Data logger is probably one of the best things in a ESC I have ever seen. No extra wires for a seperate data logger to deal with, just plug in your castle link and download the info. Make's setup a breeze, no more guessing. I truely can't wait till they are available for the boats. For the price of the ESC, you get a ESC, data logger and a BEC.....win win win!!!!

Sorry :)

[sailr]

Isn't this what the extra caps like ETTI sells are supposed to do, to soften the spikes? Maybe this is the answer Joe? Or larger caps? Just wondering.


Who said that? I think he may be referring to very choppy water where the prop comes out of the water (along with the rest of the boat), the prop unloads, and then hits the water at very high speed....and then there's a huge amp spike. This is hard on a controller, but IMO I don't think that would be too much of an issue...especially since I've done this quite a few times learning to drive these things and haven't had an issue. It's not a software issue he was referring to...it's an amperage issue. I'm the "boat guy" now so just email me. The more I drive these the more info I'll be able to help out with. I'm a sponge when it comes to something I have interest in. I do all the emails at support@castlecreations.com...put "OE FORUMS" as the title and I'll get to it asap.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Guys, just to put in perspective...my buddy runs a ammo 2300 KV in a BJ with 4S and m440 and never an issue with the UL1 ESC...rated for only 60 amps. HELLO! That is a pretty hot set up...burned a motor but the ESC has not flinched.

So when I see stuff like 8XL 2084 KV and 240 amp ESCs popping then it is the controller. No two ways about it. Either poor parts or very poor programming.

Joe, it seems like CC is reacting like this is the first you have heard of this stuff. I would estimate many, many have been returned just from the guys here and that is just one board...what happened to all that data of fixing them?

Don't mean to down any product but this is far from the first. I would certainly think these are at least hooked up to batteries for a QC check but it really does not look like it.

I congratulate you on your service but there are bigger issues and have been for some time.

[bustitup]

Working on it. :)


Joe
Mine is the hv240 that is on its way to you..please let me know when you receive it

also so you know the whole history.....I got that esc about two weeks ago...it was brand new sealed in the box....I took it out of the box and installed the water lines and 5.5 bullet connectors.... I then hooked it up to castle link and only thing I set from default was the voltage cut off and set it at 19.2 volts......then installed it in the boat to bench test it on 6s1p.....I proceeded to bind it to my tactic 2.4 ghz....I then turned on the transmitter and held the throttle trigger wide open and had my son plug in the battery....we immediately got a unreal huge spark and the esc flashed a red light a few times and made a sequence of beeps and then nothing, dead....no smoke...i took it back to my computer and hooked it to the castle link and it wouldn't recognize the esc...it showed a usb connection but no esc....then removed all the bullets and hose lines and shipped it to you

[DISAR]

I would certainly think these are at least hooked up to batteries for a QC check but it really does not look like it.

The QC check with voltage applied should be always done. Is it?

[Ub Hauled]

Guys, just to put in perspective...my buddy runs a ammo 2300 KV in a BJ with 4S and m440 and never an issue with the UL1 ESC...rated for only 60 amps. HELLO! That is a pretty hot set up...burned a motor but the ESC has not flinched.


Jeff, I too run a big mod prop (43mm) not an issue with the motor or ESC...

[bustitup]

Send one of these to me please. I want to see it and will make engineering look at it. Especially now that I'm "one of you" and am getting hooked on boats. Setting up a TT Outlaw 7.5 right now...HV240. ;)

And yes, we will be doing a boat version of the ICE down the road. Hold tight guys.


Joe
I would think the 240HV I sent surley got there by now?......are they working on it?

[Raydee]

Bringing up a old thread, Haven't heard from Joe Ford in a while. I hope he is still bit by the boat bug. I have a new 6s hull on the table and I need a ESC for it. I was really hoping the Hydra ICE controllers would be out by now BUT since they are not I am going to buy a the Phoenix ICE 200 with a Pistix so I can still use my wheel radio. IS anyone one else using his controller in a boat? It def looks beefy enough even though there is no water cooling I will just put a nice fan on it and I am sure it will be fine. With the built in data logging and bec I think this controller will be golden.

[Raydee]

Hmmm is anyone running the Ice 100 in a boat?

[BakedMopar]

I have and they are great. Lots of features and very smooth throttle operation. I'll be trying the 200 amp model, to compare directly with a Turnigy 180 in my Rico.

Raydee pm replied.

[Raydee]

Thanks for the reply. What setup did you use with the ice 100? I am def going to try the ice 200 in my sprintcat, I am going to try to get away with fan cooling and see how it goes.

[BakedMopar]

The Ice 100 was run on many setups. I tried it with a sv motor (prop M645)and a Feigao 12l M445 with cup) in a SV27. I ran it in my BBY OM29 with a 12l and a 8xl on 4s both with X445. I have run both boats on 6s a couple of times and it handled well even with the BEC.

[Raydee]

WOW I saw the vid of your SV on 6s.....LOLOL that boat was moving. I think the 100 will do just fine in a 4s hull.

[longballlumber]

Raydee,

I will be watching your progress with the Ice 200 on 6S. Please report back your findings.

Later
Mike

[Raydee]

Yep I will, I ordered one yesterday.

[Eric Bourlet]

Has anyone added water cooling to the Ice 100? Would it be possible to remove the heat sink and add a water cooled one? I have been using a Turnigy Marine 120 A on 4 cells with the UL-1 motor at 90+ amps with good luck but would like the data logging of the Ice.

[BakedMopar]

You dont have to remove the heatsink. Just run tubes through them. They work great like that

[Eric Bourlet]

Yes but for the spec class then I am carrying more weight than needed. If I could remove all that extra aluminum that is not doing much good and get the water cooled plate in direct contact with the FETs it would be far better for what I want to do. Just running tube through the existing heat sink would not give very effective heat transfer due to such little contact area between the tube and the heat sink. Does anybody know where to find the on resistance of the 100 Amp ICE?

[LarrysDrifter]

Joe is awesome.He has helped me numerous times over the phone.Many thanks go to you,Joe.I know if any of us has a prob,he can set us straight.(not that I havent recieved help from here before).

[BakedMopar]

The heatsink is glued to the fets. You run the tubes directly in the heatsink right above the fets. Its the same as taking it off and putting on a plate. If you are trying to save that small amount of weight which is +- 1oz. i would look elsewhere to save it.

[Fluid]

One important function of the heat sink is the large increase in the thermal mass of the controller. Even without water or air flow the heat sink will let the ESC run without overheating quickly since it has to heat up that chunk of aluminum. I run my ICE 100 in cats and sport hydros where there is plenty of hull volume and overheating hasn't been a problem, even with 170+ amp spikes on 6S....but I only run for 2 minute heats. The lack of much air volume in a rigger is an issue, but I agree that water cooling with either drilling holes in the sink or putting tubing in the slots would help cooling a lot. I would not remove the heat sink.

My ICE 100 has logged ESC temps of over 250F without problems.....



.

[ReddyWatts]

Castle must be using good solder, some will melt around 250F.

[Joe Ford]

It's lead free solder. ;)

[ReddyWatts]

Lead-free solder alloys melt around 250 °C (482 °F), depending on their composition.

[Eric Bourlet]

Do they actualy glue the heat sink on or are they using a heat sink compound?

[mappo]

Joe this is the spark arrestor I was refering too...some have said use a 1 ohm resister instead of 20 for the 240 hv

what do your techs think of this setup?

if this works dont you think it should be factory installed?

http://www.rgcbuilders.net/spark.jpg

1 ohm 5 watts is what CC recommends, any higher will trick the controller into a different lipo cut off value.

[Raydee]

I don't know but I like hearing the snap when I plug my 6s packs in...lets me know that the caps are charged. According to Patrick at Castle if you don't hear the POP then something is wrong.

[Joe Ford]

Do they actualy glue the heat sink on or are they using a heat sink compound? If they are glued I will skip the entire Castle idea and continue with the direction I am going now.

It's a 2 part thermal epoxy.


1 ohm 5 watts is what CC recommends, any higher will trick the controller into a different lipo cut off value.

Correct, but this is mainly due to the fact that higher ohm resistors will cause the ESC to improperly detect the # of cells you are using when the controller is in "auto-lipo" mode. Since the Hydras do not have this there's no worry, BUT we WILL be adding it so if you're going to do this mod it is best to use the 1 ohm 5W. However, it is not recommended with boats to use these simply because the spark you see on plug in lets you know if your capacitors are damaged or not. Spark = good caps, no spark = bad caps.


I don't know but I like hearing the snap when I plug my 6s packs in...lets me know that the caps are charged. According to Patrick at Castle if you don't hear the POP then something is wrong.

Correct...your caps are dead, and need to be replaced if you do not see a spark on plug in. The higher the voltage the bigger the pop should be.

[Eric Bourlet]

Are the Ice 100s conformal coated? I have one on the way.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Are the Ice 100s conformal coated? I have one on the way.

No you will have to coat it or use corrosion x. I use corrosion x. You will also need a Pistix.

[Steven Vaccaro]

I got to play with my Ice 200 last weekend, Its a pretty mild setup.

H&M Drifter M
Lehner 2250 1250kv
Castle Creations Ice 200 with corrosion x and pistix.
6s lipo 25c 5000mah
prather s245.

After the full depletion of the packs. I can say I'm so far happy with the the Ice 200. The esc was in the low 90's degree f, The motor in the high 80's.

One strange thing was that the motor or esc makes a interesting sound when slowing down. Sort of like a turbine. Its kinda cool.

[Eric Bourlet]

No you will have to coat it or use corrosion x. I use corrosion x. You will also need a Pistix.

Thanks Steve, Don't need the Pistix as while I drive buggies with a wheel and learned R/C with a wheel , I prefer a stick transmitter for boats; better throttle management. I'll pick up a can of conformal coating.

[Eric Bourlet]

Whoo Hoo, got the ICE 100 today and figured out how to water cool it. Going to mill out one heat sink fin on each side, bond aluminum over the top of that to make a channel, bond water fittings in the end of the channel created by the first two steps. This gives me direct water to heat sink interface for maximum heat transfer. Used Silicone conformal coating on boards by removing the plastic end caps carefully and applying with small brush. Then reattaching plastic end caps using the Castle stickers the same way Castle does. As soon as I get it done I will post photos if anyone is interested.

[sailr]

Yes, pics please.


Whoo Hoo, got the ICE 100 today and figured out how to water cool it. Going to mill out one heat sink fin on each side, bond aluminum over the top of that to make a channel, bond water fittings in the end of the channel created by the first two steps. This gives me direct water to heat sink interface for maximum heat transfer. Used Silicone conformal coating on boards by removing the plastic end caps carefully and applying with small brush. Then reattaching plastic end caps using the Castle stickers the same way Castle does. As soon as I get it done I will post photos if anyone is interested.

[electric]

I was reading through this thread and something caught my eye. 250 degrees on an ESC and it is still working? How is this possible? How come we are all worrying about our water cooled marine esc's hitting 150's yet this ICE ESC is working at 250?!? Is this true? Then why are we not using these instead of the current world of esc's we are all using which seem to fail at a much lower temp? Hmmm..

[BakedMopar]

IME the temps that are said are from the data logger. The temp sensor is directly on the pc board or fets which reads much higher than the outside temps. There is usually a 30 degree difference between what I temp on the heatsink and what is on the data logger.

With that being said I still agree on what your impying. These thing are awesome.

[Eric Bourlet]

I just got off the phone with Castle Tech Support. They recommend starting with a 12kHz pulse width for inrunners. Anyone have any hard data on what the UL-1 motor likes best for settings.

[Fluid]

I just got off the phone with Castle Tech Support. They recommend starting with a 12kHz pulse width for inrunners. Anyone have any hard data on what the UL-1 motor likes best for settings.

The AQ controller for the UL-1 runs 8 kHz. That's what I run on my ICE100 and it works great. The stock UL-1 controller has 10 degrees of timing advance, I run 15 with the ICE100.




.

[Eric Bourlet]

The AQ controller for the UL-1 runs 8 kHz. That's what I run on my ICE100 and it works great. The stock UL-1 controller has 10 degrees of timing advance, I run 15 with the ICE100.




.

I was told by the tech support that the timing numbers on most speed controllers can be rather arbitrary and to use the normal setting as it will change the timing to what the motor needs. They also told me not to use the out-runner mode but to set it to 12Khz for my specific motor. Have you tried the normal timing and compared it to the fixed 15 degree setting?

Hey Joe, get it on your list to add a remote temp sensor to the ICE so we can monitor motor temps with the recorder. That would make other recorder solutions obsolete for boats.

[sailr]

The Khz has nothing to do with timing, that is the PWM, Pulse Width Modulation. Timing is in degrees.

[Eric Bourlet]

The Khz has nothing to do with timing, that is the PWM, Pulse Width Modulation. Timing is in degrees.

I did not say they had anything to do with each other. I was just looking for what people are actually running.

[AndyKunz]

Actually, timing and frequency ARE related. At a higher frequency, the timing can be done with better resolution and will allow the motor to turn up higher. But it costs in ESC heat. If the ESC is adaptive with its timing (like Shulze) then the higher frequency allows the ESC to fine-tune itself to the motor better.

You don't get something for nothing, but if you're running the ESC cool then the higher frequency can pay off.

As long as the motor isn't too inductive.

Andy

[sailr]

Eric, I didn't say you did! I didn't quote you did I? It's just that the conversation in this thread and elsewhere people start mixing apples and oranges (timing and PWM). Just wanted to make sure they know to differentiate!

K?


I did not say they had anything to do with each other. I was just looking for what people are actually running.

[Eric Bourlet]

Well I have been working on the water cooling modifications. Thanks to Mark Anderson for helping with the machine work. You can find photos here (http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/ebourlet/Phoenix%20ICE%20100%20Water%20cooling%20modificati on/).

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/ebourlet/Phoenix%20ICE%20100%20Water%20cooling%20modificati on/th_SNC00162.jpg (http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/ebourlet/Phoenix%20ICE%20100%20Water%20cooling%20modificati on/?action=view&current=SNC00162.jpg) http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/ebourlet/Phoenix%20ICE%20100%20Water%20cooling%20modificati on/th_SNC00161.jpg (http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/ebourlet/Phoenix%20ICE%20100%20Water%20cooling%20modificati on/?action=view&current=SNC00161.jpg)

[tharmer]

I plugged in my ICE 160 HV today and it almost exploded on the bench. Never even got to the water. I had programmed it the day before and it worked fine. Only difference was that I sprayed its internals with Corrosion-X. Could that have caused it to blow? It appeared to be a complete short when I attached the 8s batteries.

-terry

[Raydee]

I plugged in my ICE 160 HV today and it almost exploded on the bench. Never even got to the water. I had programmed it the day before and it worked fine. Only difference was that I sprayed its internals with Corrosion-X. Could that have caused it to blow? It appeared to be a complete short when I attached the 8s batteries.

-terry

Did you make sure the radio board was secured to the fet boards before you used it? Castle has a recall on the Ice 160 and 200 ESC's right now.

[Raydee]

http://www.castlecreations.com/support/service_advisory/sa-ice200icehv160.html
There is the link.

[Eric Bourlet]

I doubt that the Corrosion X caused your problems but I would never recommend putting a penetrating lubricant on any PC board. If you check out http://www.corrosionx.com/ you will see that they describe their product is designed for many uses but I have not found where they say that they recommend it for Electronic PC boards. I may have missed it but if I have please someone show me where the manufacture recommends it for use on Electronics, or PC boards. Here is the statement taken from their web page
“Stop rust and corrosion in its tracks with products from Corrosion Technologies. Advanced technology and formulas create products with nearly unlimited applications. Home, aviation, industrial and marine uses abound. “ “In addition to its corrosion fighting properties, CorrosionX is also a super lubricant and penetrant. It lubricates under heavy loads and high temperatures. Use it on sheaves, hinges, locks, cables/wire ropes, windlasses or other rotating devices. It is ideal for fishing reels and guns. And, CorrosionX penetrates like nothing you've ever used. Corroded or rusted nuts, bolts or fittings can usually be removed within a few minutes.”
As you can see they make no mention of using it on Electronics. While it is probably useful around electrical contacts, PC boards are made up of several layers of fiberglass and copper not the kind of thing you want to put anything that can penetrate on. You should use a good conformal coating designed for electronics. I have found that PlastiDip works well and does not attack or penetrate the circuit board or traces. PlastiDip does provide a little more physical protection that a silicone conformal coating but it harder to remove if you need to re-solder something. I have found that when I have had to remove PlastiDip from either battery packs or PC boards to replace wires at a later date that the traces on the board look as good as they day they were originally coated. While it may be tempting to use household silicone sealants most of these give off an acidic acid during the cure and should never be used in or around electronics as it will eat the copper traces off the board (I have personally witnessed this on State Patrol Radars just from being used to seal the lids and case halves).
This story comes to mind every time I here of people using a penatrant like Corrosion-X on PC boards.
There is a guy that every day is seen standing on a busy street corner fervently snapping his fingers. After seeing this every day for several weeks a gentleman approaches the finger snapping man and ask why he is always on this same corner snapping his fingers. The man replies” to keep the lions away” . To this the inquisitor states “there are no lions in this busy town”, The finger snapping man responds “see it works”.

[Fluid]

This is an old topic well discussed in the past. You might want to read the following from Corrosion-X themselves and put your mind at ease.

http://www.corrosionx.com/animations/CorrosionX.ppt

and these:

http://www.buycorrosionx.com/ccp1-display/ste_cxapplications.html

http://www.corrosionxproducts.com/Aviation.htm

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=corr-x

Like any non-OEM treatment - use at your own risk. Sorry, no humorous folksy stories to repeat.



.

[Eric Bourlet]

Well the links you gave do have some anecdotal postings by users but all I see the manufacture recommend is for Electrical contacts and connectors, the aviation link has to do with metal parts of the aircraft as most of the links do. But as you stated use at own risk. I will certainly not subject a PC board to any form of penatrant. But I guess that comes from being a radio electronics technician for the last 25 years. I hope that it works well for you.

[tharmer]

Thanks for the Reply, eric. I see your point. I didn't check with the mfg, just took all the comments in favor and used it. The CX had only been on the board for 24 hours. Is that long enough to ruin it?

Have I destroyed my CC warranty? Should I just not send it back? What do you suggest?

-t

[Steven Vaccaro]

Eric I understand your backgound, but there are also us without that background but years of experience with the product. I'm on about my third year with esc's and corrosion x, no problems at all. The reason I dont use a conformal epoxy is the heat retention. Its like adding a winter coat to the esc.

[Eric Bourlet]

T, You need to call Castle they have great customer support talk to Joe explain your situation and ask him.

Steve, if a conformal coating causes any thermal issues then you have far bigger problems, like poor design, lack of proper heat sinking , thermal coupling between the heat generating devices (FET, regulator...) and the heat sink. If adding a conformal coating to the PC board causes over heating, buy a different product . What does a respectable company like CC use? I know that they offer a conformal coating service for a small additional fee. Either way I would certainly check with the manufacture of the ESC and ask them if they approve and will stand behind a product of theirs doused in a penetrating lubricant. At least that way you will know if there will be any warranty issues.

[Steven Vaccaro]

T, You need to call Castle they have great customer support talk to Joe explain your situation and ask him.

Steve, if a conformal coating causes any thermal issues then you have far bigger problems, like poor design, lack of proper heat sinking , thermal coupling between the heat generating devices (FET, regulator...) and the heat sink. If adding a conformal coating to the PC board causes over heating, buy a different product . What does a respectable company like CC use? I know that they offer a conformal coating service for a small additional fee. Either way I would certainly check with the manufacture of the ESC and ask them if they approve and will stand behind a product of theirs doused in a penetrating lubricant. At least that way you will know if there will be any warranty issues.

Epoxy or Spray conformal?

It depends on the type of coating and the esc's application it was built for. This topic is for an airplane esc that is designed to have a flow of air over the heat sink for cooling. In a boat it changes the whole design, adding an epoxy coating can't possibly help the situation.

Also, The spray is not nearly as good as epoxy, but its better than anything. I've tested that and proven it to myself, by dunking a esc coated with both under water. The epoxy is great but I wouldn't coat any airplane esc, unless I was willing to take the chance of an issue.

The Hydra Series is spray coated, I've experienced water or condensation shut downs that have been completely eliminated with the use of Corrosion X.

[Eric Bourlet]

I did not mean to imply that you cover the heat sink with any type of coating, sorry if I came across that way. I use a Silicone based conformal coating similar to what Castle Creations uses. I don't use epoxy based coating because that were not allow for removal if I wanted to change the wires at a later date. Either way I would not use any of them over a heat sink that required air flow to cool it only on the PC board itself.

[Steven Vaccaro]

I did not mean to imply that you cover the heat sink with any type of coating, sorry if I came across that way. I use a Silicone based conformal coating similar to what Castle Creations uses. I don't use epoxy based coating because that were not allow for removal if I wanted to change the wires at a later date. Either way I would not use any of them over a heat sink that required air flow to cool it only on the PC board itself.

I figured you didnt mean that. Sorry if I made it sound that way.

I've seen people(including myself), make bricks out of esc's with epoxy covering the entire esc, similar to a AquaCraft or ProBoat esc. Those are waterproof. A Castle esc with the conformal spray is more water resistant. Some water wont kill it, but if swapped, my moneys on a dead esc.

[electric]

So, besides the incident above in this thread. How have these "ICE" controllers been holding up? Interested in the 200amp model. I noticed Steven is selling those.

[Fluid]

So far my ICE100 has held up fine. A bunch of runs on the 6S setup, most had average runs over 125 amps and the ESC never shut down although it did get hot - over 250F a few times. Since then it has been running a 60-65 amp UL-1 setup for months and not a bobble; temps run 120-135F with no cooling.



.

[tharmer]

Has it ever been dunked?

[BakedMopar]

I've had good luck with mines with the exception of one that got submerged.

[Darin Jordan]

Guys... Thinking of trying one of the ICE 100's for a Limited boat. Do you need anything besides the Castle Link in order to use the Data Logging function?? Are there any extra leads or ??? that are required/available?

Thanks,

[Eric Bourlet]

Just need the CastleLink. It comes with a gift certificate for a free one or for an additional $10.00 you can get the programming card that also acts as a CastleLink but allows you to program all the speed control functions without having to have a PC. BTW the data logging functions of the ICE are easy to use and a great tuning tool.

[Darin Jordan]

Just need the CastleLink. It comes with a gift certificate for a free one or for an additional $10.00 you can get the programming card that also acts as a CastleLink but allows you to program all the speed control functions without having to have a PC. BTW the data logging functions of the ICE are easy to use and a great tuning tool.

Right on... I have a sweet little laptop just for bringing to the races, already setup for Castle stuff, so I'll just go with the ESC for now.

Now to figure out the best way to protect it from H20....

Do you think the water cooling was worth it on this, or do you think it might be fine without??

[Eric Bourlet]

I would certainly water cool it for our P-Spec stuff. My data showed 85-100 amp with peaks of 130 amp and the temperature never got over 120F. It is easy to get excellent thermal coupling in a water cooled adaptation like in post 98 of this thread and it can be done with off the shelf aluminum angle and a dremmel tool.

[bustitup]

I would certainly water cool it for our P-Spec stuff. My data showed 85-100 amp with peaks of 130 amp and the temperature never got over 120F. It is easy to get excellent thermal coupling in a water cooled adaptation like in post 98 of this thread and it can be done with off the shelf aluminum angle and a dremmel tool.

will one of these work just layed on top of the heatsink...they are about 2" square
the one in this picture is mounted on a sentilon 100amp turnigy..there pretty large

two could be used on a turnigy monster 200 esc

I have a few of these available....pm with any interest

http://www.rgcbuilders.net/cooler.jpg

[Eric Bourlet]

It would not be very effective due to very little actual surface area making contact it would only contact the top of the fins. The way it's done in post 98 the water flows over 4 sides of the heat sink fins on both sides of the controller giving a very large surface area to transfer heat. In fact I would guess it has more surface area than the holes drilled trough the plate you show above, even if it was secured directly to the FETs. I may get an ICE lite and work on building a clamp on water cooled heatsink that can cool the FETS on both sides of the board, but from the data collected so far that would be serious over kill. Remember that this project is for racing where we are putting a bit more demand than the casual user so I want optimum cooling because the cooler we can run the lower the losses.

[Darin Jordan]

I would certainly water cool it for our P-Spec stuff. My data showed 85-100 amp with peaks of 130 amp and the temperature never got over 120F. It is easy to get excellent thermal coupling in a water cooled adaptation like in post 98 of this thread and it can be done with off the shelf aluminum angle and a dremmel tool.

Good enough... I go to the effort then... I certainly noticed a slow down around lap 5 with my tunnel when the wires started getting hot on Sunday... Keep all the temps down would be a good idea.

[Darin Jordan]

Maybe this has already been covered, but according to the instructions, we can't use the BEC for 4S... Is that TRUE??

Seems odd, since these ESCs are suppose to have a higher powered BEC cicuit. Are you guys using BEC, or not??

[BakedMopar]

No bec is good to 8s. The instructions is confusing.

[Darin Jordan]

No bec is good to 8s. The instructions is confusing.


Cool... that's what I thought. Thanks.

[Flyguy55]

Just my experience , I'm not recommending it to anyone else.
I tested and raced my JAE FE 21 with UL1 , 4S 35C 5000 S & B H7 , and ICE 75 Lite ESC. No heat sink or cooling .

Only had time to make 2 test runs and raced 4 heats .Lubbock TX , temps in the high 90s.
No problems at all . After every run I could hold the ESC for more then 20 seconds.
( battery died in the heat guage I did spray well with Corrsion X but no water in the hull .


I'm sure an ICE 100 would be better when I try bigger props . The ICE Lite 75 worked well with my set up.

Dick Roberts

[Eric Bourlet]

Hey Dick what does a battery dieing in a temp guage have to do with checking the temp on an ICE? ;-) What did the on board logger show ?

[Darin Jordan]

OK... have an ICE 100 on the way. Looking forward to the data logging feature. Next will contact Andy K. to get his instructions for setting the DX3S to work with it without using the Pistix.

[teach]

Next will contact Andy K. to get his instructions for setting the DX3S to work with it without using the Pistix.

Now that would push buying a DX3S over the top!!

[Darin Jordan]

Now that would push buying a DX3S over the top!!


Dang... turns out the 3S doesn't have the throttle curve programming feature... need to use the 3R, which, of course, doesn't yet support the MR-series RXs... Well... at least the ones YOU guys can get can't... :spy: (backstory: the original test radio for the Marine upgrades to the 3S and MR-rx testing were done using a modified 3R radio TX, which I still have... and could use, but would be kind of "false advertising", since the 3R really doesn't work with the marine rx's ... :Peace_Sign: )

Time to put a Pistix on order...

[tharmer]

Are the Marine versions of the ICE imminent? I could wait a bit I guess.
-t

[Darin Jordan]

Are the Marine versions of the ICE imminent? I could wait a bit I guess.
-t

They say they are doing them... haven't heard when.

[properchopper]

OK, here's my question(s) : After reading and absorbing comments/results with the Ice 100 on P-Spec motors, I'm gathering the idea that a user-adjustable timing feature will net an increase in overall performance without any dangerous heat buildup in the motor and a non-cooled SC ( I think that's what I understand). So, [#1] Will I benefit by buying one of these critters for my (Insane) P-Spec setup ? { I've been using the UL-1 SC with the UL-1 motor - primarily to demonstrate the ease/simplicity/cost benefit of converting a UL-1 boat to the Insane boat} and [#2] Would I do just as well using a Seaking 180 ( I have one available) set to 15 degrees timing ( which seems to be the number preferred)?

Any thoughts ?

[Darin Jordan]

Any thoughts ?

Tony,

Here is why I am going this route...

#1) The throttle response, especially down at the initial startup, on the PB controllers is a little bit abrupt, so for a boat like my OPC, when I put a good prop on it, it tends to launch out of the water and flip on startup. I need smoother startup control.

#2) The smoother throttle curve will help me to balance the tunnel better at race speeds through the turns.

#3) I like the onboard data logging feature.

#4) I'll save weight over the stock PB ESC.

That's really is. The timing will be nice to have, but honestly, I've never seen a race won with timing. I've finished second to fast boats with UL-1 ESCs, and I just don't think that the timing part makes that huge of a difference... talking 10-degees vs. 15, for example. If you get the prop right for the RPM you are running, the timing really is secondary, in MY opinion...

Bottom line is that I needed something with smoother throttle response, and, even though I have B125s and Hydra 240s here, I thought I'd try something new. The packaging of this ESC fits better into some boats as well. Should sit well up on the ESC mounting platform in the Stiletto.

[properchopper]

Thanks, Darin. Good info. Especially #1]. I clearly remember a P-Spec OPC heat at WW VI where I backed off on the mill lap; got back on too agressively ( you've seen how nervous I get on the scaffold) and back-flipped it :doh:. - really slowed down the boat with the "air prop" employed :unsure:

[Fluid]

Adding 5 degrees to a UL-1 can result in up to ~1500 additional rpm....sometimes. It will depend on how the boat is propped and setup, and how much of a reduction in lap time that means is unknown. But the difference may be noticeable on some boats.


.