Shockwave36 Conversion build

[saleens7]

Im in the middle of a conversion using the SW36 hull (the old nitro in it just never ran right) and so far i have the motor installed, the esc is ready to be put in, and im only a few bucks away from buying the batt's.

it uses a Quantam 36x70 BL motor and a welgard 100amp esc. It will be powered by 24 IB3600 cells.

some pics:

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00061.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00062.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00063.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00065.jpg

[saleens7]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00074-2.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00082.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00083-2.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00080-1.jpg

[saleens7]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00094.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00091.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00095.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00090.jpg

[saleens7]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00099.jpg


http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00098.jpg

[Mich. Maniac]

looking good, will your esc be water cooled?

[saleens7]

yes, im going to take off the covering and glue on some cooling plates with some thermal epoxy..

[Steven Vaccaro]

There have been some people playing with that motor on other forums. Their experience hasnt been good. Start with a very small prop with that motor.
Take baby steps.

[saleens7]

im only using a 40mm prop right now...it looks pretty small....

[Mich. Maniac]

the reason i ask about esc is I want something about 100 amp for my motors but want it water cooled, so far only thing i like is bk9920

[saleens7]

should i replace the current motor with a feigao 14XL? ive been hearing bad things about it, not just from Steven, but on a bunch of other forums..

also, ive been told that i should grind out a small flat spot in the shaft to give the coupler's set screws a better grip, but ive been having trouble....the shaft it alomost indestrictable..ive been trying to grind out a flat spot with a file for hours and have been pressing on the shaft so hard when i do im afraid ill bend it...and so far, the most ive done is scratched it...the coupler has two set screws at around 120* from eachother, would that be enough to hold on to the shaft or will it just spin? i know people who dont put a flat spot on and the coupler never comes loose on em and they use high power setups, where others couplers wont even stay on the shaft longer than 2 second nless they ave a flat spot...im kind cautios about going at it with a dremel too.....is there another way to cut a flat spot in the shaft

[DuckOfDeth]

Saleens,

What type of file are you using? Try a mill (bastard) file. Designed to be used in one direction only. We use them to sharpen concrete boring bits, and they should work on your shaft. In fact, I used one to file down a DeWalt cordless motor shaft, so I could get it to fit into a 5mm coupler. I powered the motor up and pressed the file against it, and shaved it down in just a few seconds.

Duck

[saleens7]

ok, ill look for one...

just wondering...im getting a 3 channel futaba FM pistol radio, but what do people use the 3rd channel for?

[Rex R]

if you get some medium strength threadlocker and a tight coupler it can be a challenge getting the coupler back off the motor shaft...I needed a propane torch, fortunatly I was able to pull the motor out of the boat 1st :)

[saleens7]

i found a big file a filed away and eventually i got a small flat spot...i hope it holds..

im getting a 3 channel radioi system...what would be the purpose of the 3rd channel?

[DuckOfDeth]

3rd channel can be used to activate 'drag chute' or to turn on 'interior fire sprinklers'

Duck!!

[saleens7]

hmmm....fire sprinklers...i think that would be good...people have been saying that there is a chance this setup will quote, unquote "EXPLODE!!!!!"

i also found out what that red BEC wire is for....nothing...they said if i lifted the covering, the wire would go to nowhere, its just a sttandard lead......:confused: ...kind of pointless, but ooookay...

i did find out that the esc im using is a very reliable one, they say a lot of electric pylon racers use it and after adding watercooling, a lot of people have had sucess with that esc in their boats too...

[saleens7]

oh yeah, another question...where could one find "fire sprinklers"??

[DuckOfDeth]

Most likely, living in your part of our great country, you will be able to find the IFS system only after you retrieve a hull that has lost it's hatch, and although, you might not be able to see the actual plumbing of the system, you will certainly be able to see the results, as it is the actual force of the sprinler system that dislodges the hatch.

Duck

[saleens7]

ok, 3rd channel will be reserved for hatch ejection system...

seriously, what would the 3rd channel be used for...i can always save cahs and just get the 2 channel verison of the same radio...

[DuckOfDeth]

On a scale model, or maybe a sail boat, there might be need of another servo, to reproduce a given action. (Squirt the fire hose, run a smoke generator?) I wouldn't think that in a speed application, a 3rd channel would be necessary.
(just my thoughts)
Duck

[saleens7]

i think ill go with the three channel....ill be using this Tx for more than just my SW36...ill also use it on the drifter, and anyother boats until i runout of memory space....then ill buy another TX...i might need that 3rd channel for something...

this spread spectrum tech going into these new radio systems have their advantages, but im hearing that they have limited range and a lag in reaction time next to an FM transmitter...

[boater76]

How bout use it to activate a nitrous oxide booster? Heehehehe

[saleens7]

ok, i know about the higher prices and have beem suggested to [QUOTE] "forget the junk a$$ nimh, go lipo" [END QUOTE]...well, im taking that advice....but i have absolutely NO experience with lipo's....all i know is ill be needing a voltage rating around 28.8 volts and a good amout of mah...my esc can take up to 6 lipo's...(i guess thats cells)....what would be a good lipo to use and how many? My boat is pretty heavy already with just the motor, and id like to keep it light...

another question, the wires that go to from the Rx to the esc are too short, is there an adaptor (basicaly an extention cable) that i can use to add a few inches of wire to the esc to rx wire without soldering, just an extension? if so, where can i fund these?

[saleens7]

oh, and another thing, where could i buy a pre-assembled lipo pack or where to go to make a custom one?

ill be needing two seperate packs that when added together will have around 28.8 volts....can this be done? when combining two lipo packs, does the voltage double or the mah?

[saleens7]

ok, did a little looking and found that two 4S packs is what ill be needing as they have ideal voltage, but will that be too much for the esc?

[boater76]

You can praboly find a extension for the rx to esc at Tower Hobbies.

Ken

[saleens7]

yep, your right, thanks

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX0952&P=0

[boater76]

No problem. If you are a member of the club you can get scratch and dent stuff too. I picked up a radio system for 30 bucks for the Super Hawaii knock off.

Ken

[saleens7]

i was thinking about using less cells in this boat and a higher KV 540XL motor...

18 cells on an 11XL would seem good....it will get 32,000+ rpms and will lessen the weight by a lot too...or the same setup only with a 10XL....it will produce around 36,000rpms would that be good as well?

24 cells on a feigao just seems like its pushing the limits...it would probably work better on 24 cells with a lehner 2250 or 2280, but thats just too much $$

what do you think about this setup? is it worth it? it will cost less so thats a bonus...

[saleens7]

i was told on RRR that i will pull more amps running an 10XL on 18 cells than i would an 14XL on 24 cells, how is this? i dont completely know how i would find out how many amps a setup would produce.

[RMZDADDY]

Watts/volts=amps, or volts x amps = watts. If you take the max cont. amp rating of a 10xl (66 amps) times the voltage of 18 cells you would get 1425.6 watts. The max cont rating of a 14xl is 47 amps, that times the voltage of 24 cells you get 1353.6 watts. You're producing almost the same amount of wattage with a 14xl at 47 amps on 24 cells as you are with a 10xl at 66 amps with 18 cells. You would be producing about 2000 more rpm at that voltage with the 10xl, but with less torque.

[Steven Vaccaro]

volts x amps = watts/horsepower.

So there are two ways to get to the same horsepower.

Say 18v x 60a= 1080
or
24v x 45a = 1080

I learned a long time ago that a electrical system like we use runs far better on the second setup. Andy Kunz explained that to me and its something I live by. Think of it this way "AMPS KILL PARTS".

[saleens7]

the esc im using can handle up to 100amps and bursts of 120amps.....

so with the 18 cells and a 10XL i would be spinning a smaller prop? so a 14XL on 24 cells would spin a larger prop....what if i used a 12XL on 18 cells i would be getting around 30,000 free rpms.(i would think that if i use the same amount of cells but the higher the turns of the motor, the less rpm it will make, but the more horsepower, is this correct?)..whats the amp rating of the 12XL? how many amps will that setup produce?

[Steven Vaccaro]

There is more to take into account. As rpm or number of turns decreases, so does the torque of the motor. So a 14xl has more torque than a 12xl.

You want to stay in the 25k rpm range on a boat that size.

[saleens7]

so a 13XL would be what im looking for?

Ill get about 27,000 free rpms, but when under load, im guessing it will get about 25K or 26K...is that about right?

whats the amp rating of a 13XL?

i dont want to use the 14XL, thats just too little rpms, although i would probably get good speed with this setup if i used a big prop, if the props too big, it will actually hit the rudder when turned full left...

i dont want to go back to 24 cells because it will be easier for me to afford this setup and it will be lighter...

[part time]

have u thought about using a mega 22/45/2 it has a kv of 1380 and 45amps max and has 6 poles. or the ammo 36-88 it has a kv of 1280.

[saleens7]

no...but i think im going to stay with a feigao..

[steveo]

if you want to use 18 cells and a 10 xl then get a fdm gear drive, and dont be concerned about a little more weight to run 24 cells,your going to need some grunt to get that boat going and try not to burn anything up at the same time, 24 cells and a 14 xl should be good for 35mph

[saleens7]

you sure...ok....i cant use a gear drive, i already have the motor mount JB-welded in...35mph sounds right, thats what the boat was supposed to run with the nitro in it...

EDIT: and welcome the OSE forum steveo...

[saleens7]

hmmm...whats left to buy for this build

fiegao 14XL: 70$

112D charger: 126$

power supply: 67$

batts: $167.63

Y harness: 20$

connectors (question, what size should i use for 12 gauge wire and whatever size wire on a feigao?): ??? (depends, but im guessing around 10$ or so)

Radio system: 165$

servo: 26$

other stuff i dont know i will need until i need em: priceless (ok...id guess around 20-30$ being realisticly)

grand total: 671.63$

i have thats much left to spend on this build and it has been going on since i think march or something like that...

and this is my cheaper build...i just cant wait to get started on that 1,000$+ drifter build...:D (sarcastic)


i have enough $$$ to buy the charger and power source right now, its that i dont have the cash in my possesion, my parents just say that thats how much i have, but if they done feel like buying something or if we arent in a good financial cituation, i cant buy anything...the reason i havent done much on this is that most everything i can buy for it is over 100$ and because we just about recovered from the taxes, i havent been able to buy anything between the time of the taxes till now.....

i just cant wait to get it running

question, my esc has 12 gauge wires (i think) im guessing the feigao does also (if not, what gauge are they?) what mm connectors will fit this wire?

[steveo]

get the 5mm connectors, i think the motors wire are #10 it seemed thick to me

[saleens7]

did a little modding to the hull....found an old ryobi dremel bueried deep in the garage and i used it to trim away some of the stringers that might have blocked the batteries from being mounted....not too much of a difference, but should help out...ive been wanting to buy something for this build for a while, but my parents keep on saying "next weekend" weekend after weekend....i think my birthday present will have to be the batts and radio system or something like that....it strange, my parents have enough cash to go out and buy some really expensive camera that i know costs hundreds of dollars more than all the money i will spend on this build, but they cant even buy a charger or battery source even though the money they would spend for it would be coming out of my account...

[SJFE]

Saleens my man...You need to get your self some side work. When I first go married(the first time) I was heavy into nitro buggies and 1/10 stadium trucks. We made crap for money. So I bought a used mower & line trimmer and put an add in the paper. 2 months later I had a Mugen Athlete and an RC10 GT:D. The wife couldent say a word....I did it by myself for myself. 30 bucks a lawn man...it adds up fast.

[saleens7]

ive been thinking of a car washing service, but weve had water restrictions lately, so thats not going to happen for now....

i found out my esc has 14 gauge wire going to the motor....what gauge does the feigao have? what size connectors should i use? stevo says he thinks their 10 gauge...but does anyone surely know what guage wire the feigao has?

[saleens7]

also, what is used to shrink Shrink tubing?

[Mich. Maniac]

I would agree feigo is 10 and use a lighter or Heat gun to shrink tube using a light just hold flame under and spin wire around to shrink evenly. NOT IN THE FLAME!

[saleens7]

ok...5mm it is then..

[saleens7]

just bought the feigao 14XL and a deans to tamiya adaptor for the triton yesterday...wish the 4mm bullet plugs to deans connector was in stock though, as that was what i was aiming to get....i would have gotten the power source instead of the motor, but it was out of stock....

question before i do buy the power source, is 10A enough to run the triton on?

[saleens7]

the feigao and adaptor came in today...when you look at the pics of the motor, i see little indents that look they they are there to hold the front and rear motor plates from sliding out...if that is what they are for, i wont need a thrust bearing, right?

[SJFE]

I use them to take the travle out of the rotor. It still drifts.

[saleens7]

(pressed enter too soon, retyping post)

[saleens7]

yeah, i noticed it had a lot of play, much more than the quantam...i also noticed there was hardly any resistance when i spun the shaft, where with the quantam there was a lot of resistance...

what i am more worried about is the play, if i full throttle it from no throttle, it will be like hitting the shaft with a hammer (not as hard, but you get the picture) and over time, it might eventuallu knock the rear motor plate loose...what i have been wondering is how do you get a thrust bearing on the shaft....i imagine that for it to stay tight enough on teh shaft that it will tranfer the push of the prop to the motor casing, it must fit very snugly, so i imagine it would be very hard to get on...

[saleens7]

just bought the power source, 4mm bullet conectors for motor/esc (5mm was out of stock), banana plus to deans adaptor for charger, deans Y harness, and triton temp sensor thing....

talked with the people ill buy the batts from...theyll cost 149$ total...wont buy them until tomorrow....and best of all, i dont have to pay! (i love birthdays....although christmas is still better...by the way, my b-day is this saturday

[saleens7]

just bought the batts...they ended up costing 65$ per pack (12 cells per pack) and that included cost of labor....they should have them built withing 3-5 days and they'll ship it out right after that...i cant wait...

[Doozie870]

The thrust bearing will slide right on the motor shaft, the coupler needs to be touching the bearing, you may or may not, have to shorten the output shaft to achieve this fit.

[saleens7]

the coupler isnt even all the way back....and there already very little room between the motor plate and back of the coupler...

[saleens7]

just sealed up any uneeded openings in the boat

(front and rear vents, exhaust hole, antenna hole (re-routed it to come out of the side of the boat)

[Doozie870]

Not sure what your talking about, does the motor have a real short shaft?

[saleens7]

no....you said unless the coupler was touching the bearing, it will fall off...the coupler i have will slide back even further than where it is now and its already close to the motor plate, so if i did have a thrust bearing in there, the coupler would probably be able to move back far enough to be touching the thust bearing to hold it in place...

[Doozie870]

I dont remember saying that it would fall off. Sounds like it will work just fine.

[saleens7]

im sorry, i though you said it would slide off the shaft, but you said "slide on the shaft"...i misread...

[saleens7]

oh yeah, forgot to mention, todays my birthday!

[Gilbequick]

What's the gray stuff on the motor mount?

[saleens7]

JB weld...

[saleens7]

just got the stuff i ordered (thanks for the quick shipping steven!)....im going to be soldering the bullet connectors to the esc and motor...but which style connector goes on wich item? do the femal connectors go on the motor and male connectors go on the esc, or vise versa? and just to make sure, there is no special order the connecotrs are supposed to go in? if the motor turns the wrong way, just switch any two wires and motor will be good to go, right?

[hammertime]

male goes on the motor

[saleens7]

well, i got the connectors soldered on....thinking i couldnt get the shrink wrap over the connectors, i slid the shrink wrap on the wire before i soldered (like what your supposed to do w/ deans)...well, the wire got hot enough that the shrink wrap shrunk on the wire and i couldnt get it over the connecotr....so now one of the connectors doesent have shrink wrap....and my soldering job was pretty crappy as well, so that didnt help...i also used a clamp (with plastic on the end) to hold the connecotr still...well when i was soldering, it go hot enough to melt the plastic inside one of the male connectors....theres none on the outside of the connector, but on the inside, some of the plastic is stuck inside...

[saleens7]

im thinking of just buying some shrink wrap for all the wires, but im wondering what the shrink wrap looks like....does it come in rolls like in the pic? if so, how do you make cylendrical wrap that wont come apart when you shrink it (like how the wrap you get w/ deans is?)

[Gilbequick]

Just curious, but why did you use JB Weld vs epoxy?

[saleens7]

i used epoxy as well, but i used JB weld on the areas that would require the most strength, JB weld is basically a very strong epoxy (there is an epoxy and resin you mix together)....

[saleens7]

here are a few pics of how the connectors ended up looking...i got the plastic on the inside of one of the connectors out....i just hope my soldering holds up

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00009.jpg

you can see the solder on one of the connectors showing, since one of the shrink wraps got stuck on the wrong wire...

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00010.jpg

and here if you look on the red wire, you can see the extra shrink wrap stuck on the wire....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00012.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00013.jpg

im just wondering steven, the shrink wrap you sell, does it come in the form of a roll of tape like i see in the pics of all of them? if so, how would you make a cylendrical shape out of one if it will just unroll when you try to shrink it? im thinking of buying some of your shrink wrap so i can put some over the connector missing some, and so i can use some colored shrink wrap so i will know which wire from the motor goes to which esc wire....

[saleens7]

also, here are some pics of where i siliconed over openings in the hull

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00014.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00016.jpg

i dont know if you can see it, but on the last pic, the 4 "exhaust" exits (they are really ventilation) are filled with silicone, and so is the real exhaust opening on the left of the transom...

[saleens7]

guess what came in today!

[saleens7]

well.....after figuring out the polarity of the batts and trying to solder on the deans plug to the esc...i just cant get the wire to stay on the plug....i soldered it so may times, and held the wire motionless for a minute, the second i let go...the wire comes loose...like it wasnt even attached to the deans plug..

[Doug Smock]

well.....after figuring out the polarity of the batts and trying to solder on the deans plug to the esc...i just cant get the wire to stay on the plug....i soldered it so may times, and held the wire motionless for a minute, the second i let go...the wire comes loose...like it wasnt even attached to the deans plug..
You need to cover the entire female connector. You can get some shrink tube at Radio Shack if you don't want to wait.;)

Did you tin the Deans and the wire before you attempted to solder them together??

Doug

[saleens7]

yes i tinned both the deans and wire....the wire is completely soaked with tin....the deans...had tin on it before i soldered, but it tranferes over to the wire.....and now the deans pluf where you solder on the wire has turned black after trying to solder it for 20 TIMES!!!!!:mad: :mad:

i just dont get it...i did the same thing with the other wire and its on there good...

[saleens7]

well...only the 21st try...it finally stuck....i used electrical tape instead of shrink wrap....will that work good?

the next time i order an esc, ill ask if they could solder some deans plugs on for me...

[saleens7]

here are a few pics of my "soldering"....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00029.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k87/saleens7_01/DSC00031.jpg

[Doug Smock]

well...only the 21st try...it finally stuck....i used electrical tape instead of shrink wrap....will that work good?

the next time i order an esc, ill ask if they could solder some deans plugs on for me...

If you have issues like that it usually means the connector was not clean. Once they turn black because the flux (rosin) burned, they need to be cleaned up again.
I personally wouldn't use tape. Chances are it won't stay put.

Doug
Sent ya a PM

[Jeepers]

If you have trouble with the heat shrink, move it as far from the connector as possible and wrap the wire just ahead of heat shrink with a wet cloth. this will help keep the heat away. what watt of iron are you using?

[Rex R]

for deans plugs (for me) heat shrink works nicely...for those blessed 5.5mm bullet con.s well, I got tired of the shrink sliding to and fro when I was trying to make or brake a connection. got 2 rolls of 3/4" electricians tape 1 red 1 black. for soldering deans I use a pair of 'knucklebuster'(slipjoint) pliers with a couple of rubber bands to hold the plug. sounds to me like you had a spot of something on the plug and insuffiecent flux. tin both wire and plug, let cool(the plug in particular), then heat the wire untill it appers 'moist' touch the wire to the plug and remove the heat.

[saleens7]

i didnt use 5.5mm plugs...i used 4mm....and they were sill too big for the wire....well...too bad you didnt post that an hour ago.....i already got the wires soldered on...i just hope the connection is good enough...i might end up buying new deans and use your method of soldering....

[Rex R]

heheh there is always a 'next time'. had the reverse problem more wire than connector (2 12ga wires into one connector), figure my parralell setup is good to 160 amps :)

[saleens7]

i water tested the water jacket for OSE, and it turns out it leaks ("big surprise":rolleyes: )....after breaking loose the two tubes on the jacket, not applying WD-40 on the motor can before putting on the jacket...

well...looks like ill have to buy a new one, but they are out of stock...ill see what i could to to the current one, maybe it will still work...

[saleens7]

got the power source today...i would be charging the batts, but im still waiting for the adaptor to get here...anyway, i plugged it in and checked how the triton worked...pretty good....alot less complicated than i though it would be...if i had the adaptor, i would be charging the batts already without even having to read the instructions

[Flying Scotsman]

How about an answer to RRR question, still waiting

[saleens7]

i answered it....sorry about the long wait, i left the computer but left it running...

[saleens7]

ok, im sick of waiting for my parents to let me buy a radio system.....im going to run it with the proboat system....ill wrap the receiver in foil and be out in the lake with the kayak and keep it very close to me so it doesent get out too far....im afraid i might loose control if i go out too far.....i hope the performance is good with the 40mm prop....sorry, no vids, ill be out on the kayak, so i cant film.....

[saleens7]

ok, im charging the batts at .1amps....luckily, since the charge is at such a low rate that the charger wont get hot enough, so the fan doesen turn on, so i wont have to fall asleep with that loud fan on....

[Rex R]

um you do know that you can charge at .1c (.3amps,ok so if you want to be picky .36a but a triton wont do that readily) for the 1st charge.
Female connectors:
if you haven't already done so...you should give each one some form of insulation all the way from the wire to where the male conns plug in to prevent shorts.

[saleens7]

yeah, im charging it at .1 amps

about the female connectors:

are you talking about the deans plugs on the batts or the bullet connectors on the motor and esc....i have electrical tape that will work fine for that....

[Rex R]

bullet connectors(motor/esc), the deans plugs don't(usually) leave bare metal showing when they are plugged together. yup tape works fine for covering the bullets.

[saleens7]

well the batts progreass so far is after 823 minutes, its charge is at 1452, 34.06v, at a .1 amp charge.....

[saleens7]

well the batts finished charging and i got the esc programmed....i bench tested it really quick (didnt go full throttle) and it seems the flex shaft vibrates....i think its coming from the prop shaft as when i rotate it by hand i can see it rising and falling every turn....ill take out the flax shaft and check it out as well as a few other places the vibrating comes from...hopefully everything is all right, although at worse i might have to replace the flex shaft....

[saleens7]

well i took the flex shaft off and it didnt vibrate....it only does when its on...so this tells me that its the flex shaft....ill buy a new one and see how it works out...

[saleens7]

wow, its been a while...and yet...no progress....i think i might be able to get the new flex cable soon though...its either that or a new front tire for my bike (barely has treads anymore)...i think i might get both though...

as of now, mountain biking is now my main hobby and RC boats have taken a backseat....

i hope i can get the shockwave running (right)...i still need a watercooling jacket for the motor, a thrust bearing, a new radio, and to watercool the esc....

as for the supervee, no progress either...all i need is a motor mount, flex coupler, and a tamiya to deans adaptor and it should be running.....

i just wish the funds were there so i could finish these things sooner...

and not to mention the drifter.....even if i use the batts from the shockwave on it, it will cost a fortune to set up....i dont know what ill end up doing with it, but there is a large chance ill end up selling it....

i think ill stick to smaller builds (if i even continue building anymore)....i just cant afford the big stuff...