Lipo Controversy... revisited... AGAIN...

[Darin Jordan]

ITS ALL GOOD???? WOW. Once again Darin I'm without words........Decline in Racers, Decline in memberships, Decline in friendships BUT ITS ALL GOOD.

In an effort to NOT sidetrack the "Lipos ROCK" thread... I'll move this here...


Please tell me exactly WHERE this is happening??? ANY of it!

Our club has grown... Tony has a new club now in So-Cal... Several people RIGHT here on this forum have converted from Planes to boats... Others have gone over to IMPBA where they can take advantage of this tech WITHOUT being branded as evil... and still others have gone off to race in other venues where FE and Nitro co-exist... So WHERE exactly is this such an issue??? Is it REALLY more than just a few isolated cases???

You can't take a few isolated pockets and extrapolate it across the Nation and say the sky is falling... AND, it's VERY clear that a few of them were LOOKING for excuses to leave... and that this was a nice scape-goat... Why else would someone fight AGAINST getting tech in place that would SAVE them money over the race season, while providing better performance and more reliable setups???

I'm sincerely sorry to see guys like Ed Hughey and Dick Crowe and really anyone in FE leave because of a change in tech... but seriously... Other than slow down the implementation, what exactly would you have done differently to keep this from happening?? IF you had trickled this tech in... you would have lost people anyhow... several for the reasons stated above... and others because the simple cost of having to constantly upgrade their equipment was OUT of control...

NOW people are trying to remedy this further, and it's again being fought... I wonder sometimes if people REALLY know what they want out of this hobby???

[Darin Jordan]

... and another thing...

People keep trying to paint this picture of all of this hobby getting so out of control, cost wise... There is some of the most affordable racing EVER available right now...

SV27 is a prime example... these things are less expensive to run than a good N1-Mono, and much faster...

LSH is still the same spec style class it's always been, as is LSO... Even if Lipos are approved for these classes... they still remain about as "limited" as you can get, and they are VERY affordable... even with Lipos.... You can buy yourself ONE 4S1P pack, and run the darn thing for the next two seasons in every heat and still have usable life in it... What are those nowadays... $120.00 for a 4500mah 4S1P pack??? That's about the same cost as a good set of matched NiMH 4200 cells.... I'm sure you guys can figure out the cost/race-heat on that one...

Then there is the apparent resurgance of P-OPC tunnel... using the SV27 power system... For $110.00, you get a motor AND ESC that will push a 27-30" REAL Nitro sized tunnel up to and potentially OVER 40mph... With the TS-2 package... and an REK lower... you would be into this setup for what... $110.00 (motor/ESC + $90.00 (Hull kit) + $90.00 (REK) + $120 (4S1P pack) = $410.00.... That's unreal and the most cost effective race setup out there... and again, it won't tax the cells hardly at all, so your investment will be well protected...


NOW, I agree... if there are not further restrictions... the open classes will get out of control... but good people are trying to work out some reasonable limits to help take care of this... and being fought all the way by the same people that fought lipos... Well..... If you have a better plan... WHERE is it??? WHY don't YOU submit a proposal to get things in order??? Let's see how much support you have?? A small group of people did NOT make Lipos happen... There were MANY votes on the matter and the overwhelming majority were in support, if I recall correctly... please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong... If you have some better ideas, how about putting them on paper and going through the hoops to get them into a formal vote? Let the members decide which is the best way to proceed... Until you have done that... it's going to appear that it's a very small number of people who have a problem with the way things have gone/are going... because from what I've seen in the polls and conversations across all these various forums... there is a good deal... a vast majority actually, who support the direction that things are heading...

If you think that's wrong... you'll have to show some data that supports your point...

[Mich. Maniac]

All Great points for controversy, good and bad. I love the fact lipo's are and have been around. Coming from flying heli's it opens up a new world for manufacturing and flying. Anyway. I left rc for a while and wasnt around when for the debut of them. I DO have to say some as myself like to have a few boats to choose from as of right now I have 4 sitting around. The only reason I dont like Lipo is the initial cost. For sport running maybe they ARENT the best. However they ARE worth the money if you have it.. As far as racing I also feel if you have the money spend it. Buy the Neu motors and the Lipo's. That just makes me more aggressive to be faster. The only down side is like I said about guys with multiple boats to power. I can build a boat, ( a nice boat) for 500. But it costs another 300 to power it with batts. Again though It is the initial cost that will get you. I am now gonna take it year by year. 2 packs this year, 2 next year. Rome wasnt built in a day right? LOL.

[ReddyWatts]

What are those nowadays... $120.00 for a 4500mah 4S1P pack??? That's about the same cost as a good set of matched NiMH 4200 cells....

Where can I purchase a good set of 4500 4S1P lipos for $120.00?

[Darin Jordan]

Where can I purchase a good set of 4500 4S1P lipos for $120.00?

Sorry... it was a typo... They are 4800 mah packs... and they are $129.99... (www.rclipos.com ... Look under "Elite Lipo"...)...

[Eyekandyboats]

LIPO's ROCK!!
:) lol this is a special hobby. .. DUDES i ran my IB4200's last year in N2 mono and placed alot of seconds and thrids. . . . so. its about how you setup your boat was well

[domwilson]

Good Post Darin,

You even put your money where your mouth is by posting a link to some reasonably price lipos. This is, as other rc hobbies are, a hobby of change and improvements. Alot of people don't like change, because it takes them out of their "comfort zone" and forces them to venture into the unknown. But if we, as a group, bond together and help each other overcome these fears, I think this issue will be mute. It's sort of like brushed vs. brushless.

[SJFE]

Darin I am not attempting to be antithetic or stir the pot. forgive me if I miss read...I am on the pda phone...but where is the sv27 power system listed for 110? I have never seen it listed for under a 159. Which chaps my @ss givin way beter performing components can be picked up from UH for quite a bit less. The battery thing with me is a nobrainer lipo is hands down the smart choice for us . But the adoption of a single power system from a single source don't make sence to me. That is a different thread we need to get into.

[domwilson]

You can get just the motor and ESC for $110.00 elsewhere. Getting it here for $159.00 is the best deal as you get the cooling jackets for both the ESC and Motor plus tubing. All that plus super fast shipping and excellent product support. Plus Steven is one of the friendliest vendors I've dealt with.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Motor = $50

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=SM&I=LXMYF2

ESC = $60

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMYB8&P=M

$50 + $60 =$110

ESC Cooling jacket = $15

So Darin really is a lying ... It's really $125

Cooling jacket for motor = $13

So now we are at $138.

The $159 you noted was for the OSE set up, which is a good one.

So, even then

Power train = $160 (upgraded)
REK bottom = $90
Hull = $90
Prop = $20

$360 ready for packs, another $130

So it is really $490 with the upgraded stuff from OSE. Still, what a deal.

We are doing several of these in SOCAL. Most of us will be in the water in the next couple of weeks and will be racing them at WW IV.

[Darin Jordan]

You can get just the motor and ESC for $110.00 elsewhere. Getting it here for $159.00 is the best deal as you get the cooling jackets for both the ESC and Motor plus tubing. All that plus super fast shipping and excellent product support. Plus Steven is one of the friendliest vendors I've dealt with.

That's correct... Steven has the best deal around on the whole package... I was just quoting the motor and ESC as I've seen it elsewhere.... no cooling plates or other parts... I make my own cooling plates... so Bill is right... I was "lying"... add another $4.00 or so for home-made cooling plates... And I forgot about the cooling jacket... another $15.00 if you want to use something beyond some home-made cooling coils...... I'm not counting props and such... those aren't necessarily boat specific... I was not trying to be misleading... just trying to make the point that there ARE plenty of classes out there for racers not willing or able to break the bank to compete...

[DPeterson]

Steve

We lost and are losing many of the people who started the hobby. We even lost Ed Hughey because of the change.

I can't believe the lipo issue is being regurgetated once again, and I can't believe I am allowing myself to once again get sucked into these threads of inaccuracy and of little value.

In the year 2002 (my first year) I watched Ed Hughy race at Batavia. Drobie and I attended to find out what Fast Electric was all about. In 2003 we went back and did some racing with 700 size motors. Ed Hughy, as you all know was the master of 05's. In 2004 we once again went to Batavia. This time with Brushless motors. Well, we blew Ed right out of the pond. I remember him having a befuddled look on his face. In 2005 we went to the Michigan Nats and watched Ed run one of his boats into the wall. I was standing next to Ed when he said that he has lost his hand/eye coordination and that he has grown to old for the sport. This entire time everyone was running NIMH's. Lipo's were not even being discussed.

With all due respect to Ed Hughy, he simply exited the hobby due to age.

I surely do not want to do battle with you Steve but IMO, inaccurate statements such as yours will do nothing but offer bad fuel for those that are either stubborn to change or are not fully educated on the subject.

Doug Peterson

[Bill-SOCAL]

so Bill is right... I was "lying"... .

It's nice to see you man up and admit it.



And I am sorry, but coming from the airplane world all I can say is that boats are a freaking DEAL!! Lipos and all. I cannot buy a decent prop and spinner for $300 for a big plane, so $400 for a race ready boat is killer!!!

[ReddyWatts]

Sorry... it was a typo... They are 4800 mah packs... and they are $129.99... (www.rclipos.com ... Look under "Elite Lipo"...)...

They are on backorder until Feb 15. Other good sources?

[SJFE]

Ok so the fact I believed with some certainty that 159.00 for the sv system is the going rate proves one thing.... I only really shop OSE...hahahahah.