New motor and ESC and timing

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  • hyrulejedi86
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 494

    #1

    New motor and ESC and timing

    NEW VIDEO ON POST 16


    I just got this new motor for my Rio EP:



    And I was wondering what timing I should have the ESC set on?

    I am using the Ver. 2 Seaking 120A ESC. The timing settings are:
    0 3.75 7.5 11.25 15 18.75 22.5 and 26.25 all in degrees



    Also, when I release the throttle I hear a single "Ping" noise and I think it's coming from the motor, what is it?

    Thanks for the help
    Last edited by hyrulejedi86; 06-23-2010, 08:31 PM.
  • hyrulejedi86
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 494

    #2
    I have no idea where to start so I hope someone here knows.

    Comment

    • JimClark
      Fast Electric Addict!
      • Apr 2007
      • 5907

      #3
      how bout the middle is usually a good place to start
      "Our society strives to avoid any possibility of offending anyone except God.
      Billy Graham

      Comment

      • hyrulejedi86
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 494

        #4
        It's set in the middle by default, I just wanted to know if anyone knew the best place for it so that I don't overheat the motor or lose power.

        Comment

        • Diesel6401
          Memento Vivere
          • Oct 2009
          • 4204

          #5
          I'd imagine it's a 2 pole motor so timing should be low. 0 or 3.75, maybe even 7.5 at the top end.
          Last edited by Diesel6401; 06-18-2010, 02:31 PM.
          - Diesel's Youtube
          - Diesel's Fleet
          "It is easier to be wise for others than for ourselves"

          Comment

          • hyrulejedi86
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 494

            #6
            Actually, I thought it was a 4 pole motor. The description "B36-56-04-2600" from their website, means, according to what others have said, 36mm diamter--56mm long--4 poles--and--2600kv.

            I could be mistaken I just wanted to throw that out there in case that helps.

            Comment

            • Diesel6401
              Memento Vivere
              • Oct 2009
              • 4204

              #7
              Originally posted by hyrulejedi86
              Actually, I thought it was a 4 pole motor. The description "B36-56-04-2600" from their website, means, according to what others have said, 36mm diamter--56mm long--4 poles--and--2600kv.

              I could be mistaken I just wanted to throw that out there in case that helps.
              2 or 4 poles timing should be about the same.

              This may help:

              Suggested Timing: 1° (2-4 poles motor) : 7° (6-8 poles motor) : 15° (10-14 poles motor) : 30° (10-14 poles motor)
              - Diesel's Youtube
              - Diesel's Fleet
              "It is easier to be wise for others than for ourselves"

              Comment

              • hyrulejedi86
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 494

                #8
                That does help! i'll have to change my timing over then.

                Just to clarify what does lowering the timing do for the system?

                Comment

                • Diesel6401
                  Memento Vivere
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 4204

                  #9
                  Originally posted by hyrulejedi86
                  That does help! i'll have to change my timing over then.

                  Just to clarify what does lowering the timing do for the system?
                  Not fully sure, I think it changes the voltage frequency to the motor. If you would put a oscilloscope to the leads of the esc that go to the motor you would prob be able to see the difference in timing. I think brushless motors are actually DC, but kind of work like AC synchronous motors. I'm not 100% sure though, maybe a smarter member can shed light on this. Anybody here got the answer to this question?
                  - Diesel's Youtube
                  - Diesel's Fleet
                  "It is easier to be wise for others than for ourselves"

                  Comment

                  • Fluid
                    Fast and Furious
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 8012

                    #10
                    I'd imagine it's a 2 pole motor so timing should be low. 0 or 3.75...
                    I'm not certain where this bad info keeps coming from, but it is a very poor idea to run any BL motor on zero degrees timing. It will run hot and with reduced efficiency.

                    Five to ten degrees is a good range for a 2-pole motor in the average sport boat, but the 'best' timing depends on the motor winding and the load. The more turns and the higher the load, the more timing advance is required. FWIW I ran 20+ degrees in my old Feigao-powered SAW record holder, less was slower. I had 90+ mph passes on 12 NiMH cells with that rigger.....

                    Schulze, who knows a bit about BL motors and controllers, recommends their "soft" timing as optimum for two-pole Hacker and Lehner motors, and "very soft" for low amperage applications. In Schulze-speak, very soft is ~5-10, soft is ~10-15, hard is ~15-20 and very hard is ~20+ degrees.



                    .
                    Last edited by Fluid; 06-18-2010, 02:27 PM.
                    ERROR 403 - This is not the page you are looking for

                    Comment

                    • Diesel6401
                      Memento Vivere
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 4204

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Fluid
                      I'm not certain where this bad info keeps coming from, but it is a very poor idea to run any BL motor on zero degrees timing. It will run hot and with reduced efficiency.

                      Five to ten degrees is a good range for a 2-pole motor in the average sport boat, but the 'best' timing depends on the motor winding and the load. The more turns and the higher the load, the more timing advance is required. FWIW I ran 20+ degrees in my old Feigao-powered SAW record holder, less was slower. I had 90+ mph passes on 12 NiMH cells with that rigger.....


                      .
                      And that's y I asked the older wiser crowd to jump in. Maybe 0 isn't the best, but I wouldn't consider all the information I stated as"bad", I'm just relaying info that I read.
                      The info is coming from mulitple esc suggestions, I didn't make it up. I read that in the etti esc section on motor timing. I read esc info on hacker esc which states the following. Maybe car esc's are different not sure.
                      * 2-5 degrees, recommend for 2-pole brushless motors (which I thought it was a 2 pole first)
                      * 10 degrees, harder for 2 pole, best for 4 pole (so if it is a 4 pole and not a 2 like a thought, this would be better)
                      * 18 degrees, 6 pole motors

                      Here's the link for that http://rcnuts.com/Files/HackerCarESCmanual.pdf (page 3)
                      http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...-race-150-opto
                      Last edited by Diesel6401; 06-18-2010, 02:42 PM.
                      - Diesel's Youtube
                      - Diesel's Fleet
                      "It is easier to be wise for others than for ourselves"

                      Comment

                      • Fluid
                        Fast and Furious
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 8012

                        #12
                        See edits on post above. I'll believe Schulze and my own experiences before I believe ETTI....appologies to the ETTI lovers here, sorry.




                        .
                        ERROR 403 - This is not the page you are looking for

                        Comment

                        • Diesel6401
                          Memento Vivere
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 4204

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Fluid
                          See edits on post above. I'll believe Schulze and my own experiences before I believe ETTI....appologies to the ETTI lovers here, sorry.




                          .
                          The hacker esc, states kinda of similar to the ETTI information. You have a lot of experience so what works for your in your testing maybe different than what esc makers suggest. I also edited my post to add additional information.
                          - Diesel's Youtube
                          - Diesel's Fleet
                          "It is easier to be wise for others than for ourselves"

                          Comment

                          • Diesel6401
                            Memento Vivere
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 4204

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Diesel6401
                            And that's y I asked the older wiser crowd to jump in. Maybe 0 isn't the best, but I wouldn't consider all the information I stated as"bad", I'm just relaying info that I read.
                            The info is coming from mulitple esc suggestions, I didn't make it up. I read that in the etti esc section on motor timing. I read esc info on hacker esc which states the following. Maybe car esc's are different not sure.
                            * 2-5 degrees, recommend for 2-pole brushless motors (which I thought it was a 2 pole first)
                            * 10 degrees, harder for 2 pole, best for 4 pole (so if it is a 4 pole and not a 2 like a thought, this would be better)
                            * 18 degrees, 6 pole motors

                            Here's the link for that http://rcnuts.com/Files/HackerCarESCmanual.pdf (page 3)
                            http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...-race-150-opto

                            This is from Hifei:
                            Option 1: Low advance timing
                            0°~15°
                            Recommended for more lower pole count motors. Gives more power and
                            slightly less efficient.

                            Option 2: middle advance timing
                            5 °~ 20 °
                            Recommended for most motors .Gives a good balance of power and efficiency.

                            Option 3: High advance timing
                            15° ~ 30 °
                            Recommended for most of higher pole count motors

                            Option4:Auto(default)
                            Recommended for most of all brushless motors.
                            - Diesel's Youtube
                            - Diesel's Fleet
                            "It is easier to be wise for others than for ourselves"

                            Comment

                            • Diesel6401
                              Memento Vivere
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 4204

                              #15
                              Originally posted by hyrulejedi86
                              Actually, I thought it was a 4 pole motor. The description "B36-56-04-2600" from their website, means, according to what others have said, 36mm diamter--56mm long--4 poles--and--2600kv.

                              I could be mistaken I just wanted to throw that out there in case that helps.
                              The "4" in the description represents the number of turns.
                              - Diesel's Youtube
                              - Diesel's Fleet
                              "It is easier to be wise for others than for ourselves"

                              Comment

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